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Replying To tearintom: "No I don't think anyone wants a return to straight knockout, I know I certainly don't. But I don't want to see championships over before summer even begins and fhe current system either personally speaking.
There has to be a rethink I feel And that rethink has to include a reduction in the amount of games particularly in the intercounty football championship and a realisation that we need to push back all ireland finals into August and stretch out the championships somewhat to give it room to breathe.
I was talking to our club manager last night asking him how we was fixed for start of fhe championships and he was listing out the fellas missing with holidays and those who had told him they were going to electric picnic! The reality is people are still organising things and going away in July and August anyway cos that's the months most people do so what's the point?
It's like we changed everything for the worse imho and it still doesn't matter and again yes that will mean in the likes of wexford we may have to reduce the amount of games rather than what we did in increasing the amount of games with zero jeopardy in the hurling championship.
I seen Larry Murphy bemoaning it, John Mullane, Peter Queally etc, we dint need rid of the split season but we do have to change and amend it imho, particularly if we are to take the promotion of hurling in any way seriously." The vast majority of club players in our county aren't taking holidays during Championship. We only had 1 last year think, and I don't know of any this year. We couldn't field a Junior B team the weekend of EP alright.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16131 - 30/05/2025 15:47:51
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Replying To tearintom: "No I don't think anyone wants a return to straight knockout, I know I certainly don't. But I don't want to see championships over before summer even begins and fhe current system either personally speaking.
There has to be a rethink I feel And that rethink has to include a reduction in the amount of games particularly in the intercounty football championship and a realisation that we need to push back all ireland finals into August and stretch out the championships somewhat to give it room to breathe.
I was talking to our club manager last night asking him how we was fixed for start of fhe championships and he was listing out the fellas missing with holidays and those who had told him they were going to electric picnic! The reality is people are still organising things and going away in July and August anyway cos that's the months most people do so what's the point?
It's like we changed everything for the worse imho and it still doesn't matter and again yes that will mean in the likes of wexford we may have to reduce the amount of games rather than what we did in increasing the amount of games with zero jeopardy in the hurling championship.
I seen Larry Murphy bemoaning it, John Mullane, Peter Queally etc, we dint need rid of the split season but we do have to change and amend it imho, particularly if we are to take the promotion of hurling in any way seriously." Following on from Tony Dempseys thoughts being published, I spent a morning in work thinking about how AI finals in September could be done. This was the only way I could think of-
If we went to alternate blocks of 2 weeks county, 2 weeks club maybe that would work, but the managers of both would be up in arms then.
1 football and 1 hurling county championship game in each county 2 week block. Maybe 1 football and 1 hurling club championship games in each 2 week club block?
We could have our County finals beginning of September, and club championship knockout rounds after that.
If we had 1 Football and 1 hurling club game a month from April til August we would have our groups played off.
It would also mean the standard of our club championships should get better, as it is alot of players don't really bother until around now to get ready for championship.
Clubs could play League games during the county fortnights.
Let county squads get together once a week during the club 2 week blocks?
The CPA people would still have calendar certainty also.
County Leagues Jan-March.
Fitzgibbon and Sigerson as they are. Likewise Provincial and AI club championships.
Any thoughts lads?
There's a poll up on another forum, 50 lads voted for keeping the current system, 48 for keeping it with minor tweaks, only 13 were against it.
The above idea was only an academic exercise, but it's also probably the only way we could go back to September AIs.
Running club and county championships concurrently worked for the Century that Tony talked of because in alot of years intercounty players only played 8 or 9 intercounty games, maybe only 1 or 2 Championship games, and as few as 3 club championship games, depending how your club did. And that was up to recently enough, when the 4 groups of 4 became 2 groups of 6. A change that I didn't agree with, and hasn't exactly led to the massive increase in standard of our club championships, or the increase in success of our intercounty team, proponents of the 2 groups of 6 said would surely happen.......
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16131 - 30/05/2025 16:03:37
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Replying To Pikeman96: " Replying To GreenandRed: "But does anybody really want to go back to straight knock-out, or at best, one back-door opportunity, such that you could be gone anyway after only two matches?
100% I want to see a knockout football championship and jeopardy games. The sole reason for giving second and third chances for 'bigger' counties is to create more television and media-related revenue for the GAA. The auld 'sure it's not fair they'll be out after one game' is a load of rubbish. Adult intercounty footballers, even in 2025, can definitely cope with going out of the Championship after losing a game. The GAA brought this scheduling arrangement, or lack of it, on themselves and with more games and more games on different live platforms, can't hope to sustain average attendances. Less games, more jeopardy, hopefully bigger crowds and a better TV watch, please. I won't hold my breath." First off, I'm considering hurling more than football. The current football structures at least mean that 12 of the top counties will be playing until the weekend of June 21/22. Eight more will be playing in the Tailteann Cup until the same time. On the other hand, all the emphasis this week is on how the likes of Lee Chin (Wexford), Stephen Bennett (Waterford) and Shane O'Donnell and Tony Kelly (Clare) won't be seen in inter-county action again this year. But thing is, a return to knock-out or a one-chance-backdoor means they might only be seen once or twice in a year anyway. And the same would apply to football. I happen to agree that a large part of the issue is that inter-county competitions have become too bloated, with all sorts of round-robins and back doors (I'm referring to Minor & Under-20 as well as Senior). But I'm not sure that a return to "the real old way" is the solution."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16131 - 30/05/2025 16:06:48
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Replying To GreenandRed: "I'm not saying they're right or wrong having as many games on GAA+. But it probably makes business sense for them to do it, try and expand their subscription and advertisements base. They can also look after the quality of their programmes which, for me, are better than what RTE TV do. RTE radio's GAA coverage is very good. There is no free to air television in Ireland if your paying for a mandatory TV licence. You have a choice if you want to subscribe to GAA+, Sky Sports, TNT, Netflix, Disney, etc. On top of the licence most of us pay a provider to connect to RTE, Virgin Media and TG4, unless you have Saorview. Scrapping the TV licence and using the revenue that government takes in from Broadcast and Internet activities to fund RTE could be a way to go and people could decide if they want to use the money saved to subscribe to various services." I get what you're saying and it probably does make short term business sense to sell the games the way they're doing it. But it's selling the soul of the games along with it.
Most on this forum will probably have the GAA+ subscription and I'm not saying that its not a good quality offering - it is. I'm saying that fewer people are seeing the games and this is bad in general.
According to RTE the average GAA championship game on TV has around 270,000 tuning in - GAA GO didn't give their subscriptions data but reported revenue of around 5 million last year which would have had some sponsorship but mainly subscriptions charged at around 70 each would mean in the region of 65,000 subscribers. That's how you kill interest in the games.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 452 - 30/05/2025 17:59:17
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Replying To brianb: "I get what you're saying and it probably does make short term business sense to sell the games the way they're doing it. But it's selling the soul of the games along with it.
Most on this forum will probably have the GAA+ subscription and I'm not saying that its not a good quality offering - it is. I'm saying that fewer people are seeing the games and this is bad in general.
According to RTE the average GAA championship game on TV has around 270,000 tuning in - GAA GO didn't give their subscriptions data but reported revenue of around 5 million last year which would have had some sponsorship but mainly subscriptions charged at around 70 each would mean in the region of 65,000 subscribers. That's how you kill interest in the games." GAA+ are additional games though. RTE show as much League and Championship as ever before. TG4 show an absolute load of live GAA. There's never been more live GAA games free to air on TV, so what's the big deal about a handful of championship games that are behind a paywall?
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4194 - 30/05/2025 20:25:52
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "GAA+ are additional games though. RTE show as much League and Championship as ever before. TG4 show an absolute load of live GAA. There's never been more live GAA games free to air on TV, so what's the big deal about a handful of championship games that are behind a paywall?" The GAA+ games are the package that used to be on TV3 and later Sky Sports. This package was free to air on TV3. It should be again.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 452 - 31/05/2025 17:46:50
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Replying To brianb: "The GAA+ games are the package that used to be on TV3 and later Sky Sports. This package was free to air on TV3. It should be again." Paid for by phone? If the money made from gaa+ beats Amy alternative than you go woth that
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3771 - 31/05/2025 18:21:44
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Replying To KillingFields: "Paid for by phone? If the money made from gaa+ beats Amy alternative than you go woth that" It's a bit short sighted. Less people are going to games. We've put most of the games behind a paywall so less people can see the games. It's a downward spiral from there.
It's not all about money but if it was it would be more profitable to get 1000 extra people at every game.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 452 - 31/05/2025 22:24:41
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Tomsmith here
I feel that Gaa Hq should look at its sub divisions ie .
Start with Gaa Hq is the PRO active enough ? , its PRO's in each County active enough, is the club Pro within each County active enough .
Do a survey and see within Clubs and Counties where we are falling down..
If you look at other Sports that are in competition with Gaa how these fellows and Girls can market its product and get promotional material out ante and Post event.
Just look at Leinster , a big sport in competition with the Gaa gets all the PR while the County games in Leinster get very little coverage
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 4048 - 04/06/2025 13:47:46
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Replying To brianb: "It's a bit short sighted. Less people are going to games. We've put most of the games behind a paywall so less people can see the games. It's a downward spiral from there.
It's not all about money but if it was it would be more profitable to get 1000 extra people at every game." It isn't short sighted tho. Games behind a pay wall isn't the issue some are making it out to be. It certainly isn't a downward spiral
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3771 - 04/06/2025 14:15:00
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Replying To tomsmith: "Tomsmith here
I feel that Gaa Hq should look at its sub divisions ie .
Start with Gaa Hq is the PRO active enough ? , its PRO's in each County active enough, is the club Pro within each County active enough .
Do a survey and see within Clubs and Counties where we are falling down..
If you look at other Sports that are in competition with Gaa how these fellows and Girls can market its product and get promotional material out ante and Post event.
Just look at Leinster , a big sport in competition with the Gaa gets all the PR while the County games in Leinster get very little coverage" Gaa as a whole doesn't have a pro it has a full communications department and when you say active enough what more do you want the communications team from croke park to be doing?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3771 - 04/06/2025 14:16:33
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Replying To KillingFields: "Gaa as a whole doesn't have a pro it has a full communications department and when you say active enough what more do you want the communications team from croke park to be doing?" Killing Fields ( Ough what a Handle its Odious ) Limerick
You Pose a question to me what is active enough.
My question was similar to that when I said the Gaa should do an audit and see if our Games are being sold to the youth like what other Sports are doing.
Look at what high level promotion is being done by other Sports i Leinster being an example .
I understand that most County Gaa PRO's are voluntary is it a question of hiring a Professional in each County before the Horse a has bolted .. Killing Fields ( Ough I hate that Handle ) if the question was raised was Gaa Football Club teams being promoted in Hurling Counties I am sure you would get an answer .
Let the Gaa HQ do a confidential survey , ( Tomsmith has no trouble fronting it ) and see what the results will be ??
In my own County we have an excellent setup, good promotion and the Celt gives great coverage to our National Sport
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 4048 - 05/06/2025 15:14:36
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Replying To tomsmith: "Killing Fields ( Ough what a Handle its Odious ) Limerick
You Pose a question to me what is active enough.
My question was similar to that when I said the Gaa should do an audit and see if our Games are being sold to the youth like what other Sports are doing.
Look at what high level promotion is being done by other Sports i Leinster being an example .
I understand that most County Gaa PRO's are voluntary is it a question of hiring a Professional in each County before the Horse a has bolted .. Killing Fields ( Ough I hate that Handle ) if the question was raised was Gaa Football Club teams being promoted in Hurling Counties I am sure you would get an answer .
Let the Gaa HQ do a confidential survey , ( Tomsmith has no trouble fronting it ) and see what the results will be ??
In my own County we have an excellent setup, good promotion and the Celt gives great coverage to our National Sport" Why do you see a meed to reference my mcounth and the a slight at my username when it simply is a reference to one of the rugby clubs ie been affiliated to in my life.
You ask about gaa being sold to the youth. That's a mimeanigless banal statement that means f all.
What are leinster doing that you want the gaa to do.
Promotion has to be multifaceted these days and talking about a local newspaper alone shows how out of date you are
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3771 - 05/06/2025 15:25:01
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Replying To KillingFields: "Gaa as a whole doesn't have a pro it has a full communications department and when you say active enough what more do you want the communications team from croke park to be doing?" Remember if you entertain a clown you become part of the circus.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2374 - 05/06/2025 16:56:51
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Replying To KillingFields: "It isn't short sighted tho. Games behind a pay wall isn't the issue some are making it out to be. It certainly isn't a downward spiral" There was a case study done on what happened to Australian Rugby union in the 2000's. The game dropped in popularity and playing numbers. Average game attendances dropped from 25k in the mid 2000's to 8k a couple of years back. Playing numbers dropped by 25% (when the population of Australia grew by 30%). It was tracked back to Super Rugby being put on Fox Sports (paid sport like Sky) while AFL and Rugby League stayed free to air. With only occasional games on free to air. Game attendances are starting to recover slightly since the game moved back to free to air with an average attendance of 10k last year.
What GAA+ does is so similar to this. League of Ireland Football and URC Rugby are reliably on TV. Outside of the effort TG4 make - GAA matches are not.
Hence what I mean by a downward spiral - more kids watching soccer and rugby will mean more kids turning up at soccer and rugby nurseries and less kids turning up at GAA clubs. It will take 10 years for the seeds here to fully mature - but watch as falling crowds (happening already) and falling attendances at GAA nurseries (happening in urban areas) continue to decline. It might be time to reconsider the paywall before the game ebbs away.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 452 - 06/06/2025 10:12:42
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Replying To brianb: "There was a case study done on what happened to Australian Rugby union in the 2000's. The game dropped in popularity and playing numbers. Average game attendances dropped from 25k in the mid 2000's to 8k a couple of years back. Playing numbers dropped by 25% (when the population of Australia grew by 30%). It was tracked back to Super Rugby being put on Fox Sports (paid sport like Sky) while AFL and Rugby League stayed free to air. With only occasional games on free to air. Game attendances are starting to recover slightly since the game moved back to free to air with an average attendance of 10k last year.
What GAA+ does is so similar to this. League of Ireland Football and URC Rugby are reliably on TV. Outside of the effort TG4 make - GAA matches are not.
Hence what I mean by a downward spiral - more kids watching soccer and rugby will mean more kids turning up at soccer and rugby nurseries and less kids turning up at GAA clubs. It will take 10 years for the seeds here to fully mature - but watch as falling crowds (happening already) and falling attendances at GAA nurseries (happening in urban areas) continue to decline. It might be time to reconsider the paywall before the game ebbs away." For once and for all -
RTE still shows as many or more matches free-to-air as it ever did. Somewhere around 35 from this year's championships, along with eight from the Leagues earlier in the year. If you want to, you can also add in seven camogie matches (two League finals & five from the championship).
The GAA can't make RTE or anybody else show more matches. There's a significant cost for the broadcaster with every match they show, to cover camera crews, studio personnel, other logistics, etc.
So, if no broadcaster wants to show other matches free-to-air, the choices are to not have them shown at all, or to show them on a streaming service like GAA+
The Australian rugby thing is not a like-for-like comparison. That was more like the SKY TV deal with the Premier League in England, where matches were only shown on the subscription channel, and none remaining on free-to-air TV at all.
When's the last time you saw a Premier League match live on BBC or ITV?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2912 - 06/06/2025 13:08:11
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Replying To Viking66: "The vast majority of club players in our county aren't taking holidays during Championship. We only had 1 last year think, and I don't know of any this year. We couldn't field a Junior B team the weekend of EP alright." Same in our club. My son a club senior and reserve) will have 19 games played (providing no injury) before any championship. Our county player will get a couple of league games and have a few weeks before championship. You will find nobody in our club wanting to dispense with the split season.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 583 - 06/06/2025 13:29:39
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Replying To Pikeman96: "For once and for all -
RTE still shows as many or more matches free-to-air as it ever did. Somewhere around 35 from this year's championships, along with eight from the Leagues earlier in the year. If you want to, you can also add in seven camogie matches (two League finals & five from the championship).
The GAA can't make RTE or anybody else show more matches. There's a significant cost for the broadcaster with every match they show, to cover camera crews, studio personnel, other logistics, etc.
So, if no broadcaster wants to show other matches free-to-air, the choices are to not have them shown at all, or to show them on a streaming service like GAA+
The Australian rugby thing is not a like-for-like comparison. That was more like the SKY TV deal with the Premier League in England, where matches were only shown on the subscription channel, and none remaining on free-to-air TV at all.
When's the last time you saw a Premier League match live on BBC or ITV?" 2020
jm25 (Galway) - Posts: 1566 - 06/06/2025 13:30:27
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Replying To Pikeman96: "For once and for all -
RTE still shows as many or more matches free-to-air as it ever did. Somewhere around 35 from this year's championships, along with eight from the Leagues earlier in the year. If you want to, you can also add in seven camogie matches (two League finals & five from the championship).
The GAA can't make RTE or anybody else show more matches. There's a significant cost for the broadcaster with every match they show, to cover camera crews, studio personnel, other logistics, etc.
So, if no broadcaster wants to show other matches free-to-air, the choices are to not have them shown at all, or to show them on a streaming service like GAA+
The Australian rugby thing is not a like-for-like comparison. That was more like the SKY TV deal with the Premier League in England, where matches were only shown on the subscription channel, and none remaining on free-to-air TV at all.
When's the last time you saw a Premier League match live on BBC or ITV?" I don't mind games on GAAplus, the commentary is far better and the pundits are better too. The whole production is far better than any RTE games.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2374 - 06/06/2025 13:36:28
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