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Replying To Whammo86: "Then you are getting back to the league barely meaning anything and why don't we just revert back to the qualifiers completely.
Players wanted more meaningful games though.
The current system is a mess. Your idea adds to the mess." Did you throw out the idea before of league seeding for qualifiers??
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8755 - 27/04/2025 12:06:37
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Whatever system the Senior Inter County calendar is unbalanced and more so next year.
Average County team plays 7 games in 9 weeks Feb/March and 4/5 games in 13 weeks April to June.
Logic would be 8 or 9 April to June and 4 Feb/March." Yeah can't agree more.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4515 - 27/04/2025 12:15:50
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Replying To stoneygrey: "Nothing to do with the above articles but the lack of games being showed on regular tv is a disgrace, the provisional games are all nearly on pay tv. They older people can't get to watch hardly any games and are reverting back to what limited coverage is on the radio. The gaa has gone back instead of forward on this one . Only the golden few teams are deemed worthy for rte/bbc to show these games . It will only be when the later stages of the all Ireland are switched to pay per view , including the all Ireland Final that the penny will finally drop that money is deemed more important than the sport itself.. a disgrace" The football at this stage of the season with little at stake struggles to compete with the hurling.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4515 - 27/04/2025 12:18:06
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Replying To omahant: "What happens if one Prov team is alone in one tier - no SFC?" Yes, unfortunately you'll probably have years where there's no provincial in certain tiers
Ciaran359 (Galway) - Posts: 26 - 27/04/2025 13:43:31
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Replying To legendzxix: "Did you throw out the idea before of league seeding for qualifiers??" Yeah but with it open to everyone and there no need for a 2nd tier.
Any element needs to be thought of in context.
I like navy blazers, I don't wear them with tracksuit bottoms because then the whole doesn't make much sense.
There's an endless way of combining playoffs, leagues, group stages, seeding mechanisms but they have to be selected logically to make an overall competition/season that makes sense.
There's to little direction in the current season and too many bells and whistles as a result. There's tinkering is always done at the edges when the whole needs to be considered and this is why we have had format after format change over the last 8 years or so.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4515 - 27/04/2025 14:11:24
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Replying To Whammo86: "Yeah but with it open to everyone and there no need for a 2nd tier.
Any element needs to be thought of in context.
I like navy blazers, I don't wear them with tracksuit bottoms because then the whole doesn't make much sense.
There's an endless way of combining playoffs, leagues, group stages, seeding mechanisms but they have to be selected logically to make an overall competition/season that makes sense.
There's to little direction in the current season and too many bells and whistles as a result. There's tinkering is always done at the edges when the whole needs to be considered and this is why we have had format after format change over the last 8 years or so." I thought holistically as I designed my AILC.
While my attire matches the blue blazer with the rest, many feel I'm overdressed for my haircut visit.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3225 - 27/04/2025 15:37:21
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All Ireland qualification through the provincial championships is complete. If provincial finalists qualifying for the All Ireland is going to continue for the foreseeable future, there should be some consequence for teams knocked out in earlier provincial rounds. Bringing back the qualifiers - using league placing for awarding byes and seeded draws is an option.
EXAMPLE ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 1
Dublin bye
Monaghan bye
Roscommon bye
Tyrone bye
Derry bye
Cavan v Wexford
Cork v Antrim
Offaly v Leitrim
Kildare v Wicklow
Westmeath v Carlow
Fermanagh v Tipperary
Sligo v Longford
Laois v London
Limerick v Waterford
EXAMPLE ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 2
Dublin v Offaly
Monaghan v Kildare
Roscommon v Westmeath
Tyrone v Fermanagh
Derry v Sligo
Cavan v Limerick
Cork v Laois
Whether the Tailteann Cup could remain as an open knockout tournament for counties missing out on the All Ireland would have to be talked out with the counties most likely to be involved. If counties are satisfied after at least two games between provincial and qualifiers - so be it. If counties are open to a Tailteann Cup run as long as they remain unbeaten - sure let them play away!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8755 - 27/04/2025 22:04:48
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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8737 - 27/04/2025
Your plan gives all teams another shot at Sam.
Just curious - two questions:
1) 5 byes and 9 Rd 1 ties = 23 non-Prov Final teams.
Is there one missing?
2) Given Rd 2 favorites (maybe home teams?), should their opponents be listed in 'reverse seed order' (from Rd 1)?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3225 - 27/04/2025 22:46:37
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Sam groups 2025 - people complain as 24 games to purge 4 teams provides insufficient jeopardy.
Liam Prov groups 2025 - people don't complain as 25 games to purge 5 teams provides sufficient jeopardy (excited even).
Are people schizo - or don't know what they want?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3225 - 27/04/2025 22:56:25
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Replying To legendzxix: "All Ireland qualification through the provincial championships is complete. If provincial finalists qualifying for the All Ireland is going to continue for the foreseeable future, there should be some consequence for teams knocked out in earlier provincial rounds. Bringing back the qualifiers - using league placing for awarding byes and seeded draws is an option.
EXAMPLE ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 1
Dublin bye
Monaghan bye
Roscommon bye
Tyrone bye
Derry bye
Cavan v Wexford
Cork v Antrim
Offaly v Leitrim
Kildare v Wicklow
Westmeath v Carlow
Fermanagh v Tipperary
Sligo v Longford
Laois v London
Limerick v Waterford
EXAMPLE ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 2
Dublin v Offaly
Monaghan v Kildare
Roscommon v Westmeath
Tyrone v Fermanagh
Derry v Sligo
Cavan v Limerick
Cork v Laois
Whether the Tailteann Cup could remain as an open knockout tournament for counties missing out on the All Ireland would have to be talked out with the counties most likely to be involved. If counties are satisfied after at least two games between provincial and qualifiers - so be it. If counties are open to a Tailteann Cup run as long as they remain unbeaten - sure let them play away!" I don't agree with this proposal. It effectively upends the link with the league and devalues the Tailteann Cup. It's just another version of the qualifier system. Provincial matches have had less consequence since the qualifiers started in 2001 in that no one gets knocked out. Any year since then, the likes of Derry or Westmeath could lose all their league matches, lose their first provincial match but still remain in the relevant All Ireland competition.
The only difference is the degree of disadvantage. In the old qualifier system they would enter at round 1 or 2, now they are a lower seed or end up in the Tailteann Cup.
CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 135 - 27/04/2025 23:35:09
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Replying To legendzxix: "All Ireland qualification through the provincial championships is complete. If provincial finalists qualifying for the All Ireland is going to continue for the foreseeable future, there should be some consequence for teams knocked out in earlier provincial rounds. Bringing back the qualifiers - using league placing for awarding byes and seeded draws is an option.
EXAMPLE ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 1
Dublin bye
Monaghan bye
Roscommon bye
Tyrone bye
Derry bye
Cavan v Wexford
Cork v Antrim
Offaly v Leitrim
Kildare v Wicklow
Westmeath v Carlow
Fermanagh v Tipperary
Sligo v Longford
Laois v London
Limerick v Waterford
EXAMPLE ALL IRELAND QUALIFIER ROUND 2
Dublin v Offaly
Monaghan v Kildare
Roscommon v Westmeath
Tyrone v Fermanagh
Derry v Sligo
Cavan v Limerick
Cork v Laois
Whether the Tailteann Cup could remain as an open knockout tournament for counties missing out on the All Ireland would have to be talked out with the counties most likely to be involved. If counties are satisfied after at least two games between provincial and qualifiers - so be it. If counties are open to a Tailteann Cup run as long as they remain unbeaten - sure let them play away!" I'm not against keeping things open but I'd suggest the following is better than your proposition.
Last 16 should be straight knockout. It makes no sense to go Provincials to single elimination to double elimination.
Losing Provincial finalists shouldn't enter at the same round as Provincial champions. If any round of a =
Provincial championship deserves a reward for winning it, it should be the final.
You put those things in and you've got a better competition than the current one.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4515 - 28/04/2025 05:33:18
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Replying To omahant: "@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8737 - 27/04/2025
Your plan gives all teams another shot at Sam.
Just curious - two questions:
1) 5 byes and 9 Rd 1 ties = 23 non-Prov Final teams.
Is there one missing?
2) Given Rd 2 favorites (maybe home teams?), should their opponents be listed in 'reverse seed order' (from Rd 1)?" Down are the Tailteann Cup champions. They are already qualified.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8755 - 28/04/2025 09:08:03
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Replying To Whammo86: "I'm not against keeping things open but I'd suggest the following is better than your proposition.
Last 16 should be straight knockout. It makes no sense to go Provincials to single elimination to double elimination.
Losing Provincial finalists shouldn't enter at the same round as Provincial champions. If any round of a =
Provincial championship deserves a reward for winning it, it should be the final.
You put those things in and you've got a better competition than the current one." I'm not against straight knockout either. Just focusing on the one area that I think needs to be changed. The loser of the Cork v Kerry semi final should not be qualifying automatically for the All Ireland regardless of being Division 1 winners or not.
In straight knockout territory - I'm in the minority in support of the Dublin and Tyrone motion where provincial winners would enter a Champions Round. Winner through to semi finals. Losers entering the quarter-finals. Not too dissimilar to Munster and Leinster hurling winners through to semi finals, and losers entering quarter finals.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8755 - 28/04/2025 09:14:09
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Replying To legendzxix: "I'm not against straight knockout either. Just focusing on the one area that I think needs to be changed. The loser of the Cork v Kerry semi final should not be qualifying automatically for the All Ireland regardless of being Division 1 winners or not.
In straight knockout territory - I'm in the minority in support of the Dublin and Tyrone motion where provincial winners would enter a Champions Round. Winner through to semi finals. Losers entering the quarter-finals. Not too dissimilar to Munster and Leinster hurling winners through to semi finals, and losers entering quarter finals." I think a champions round straight through to the semis wouldn't be good at all, Kerry or Dublin already had an easy road over the years to quarterfinals, no way should they get 2 bites at a semi final place.
A champions round through to the quarter finals could make sense.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4515 - 28/04/2025 10:42:48
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think a champions round straight through to the semis wouldn't be good at all, Kerry or Dublin already had an easy road over the years to quarterfinals, no way should they get 2 bites at a semi final place.
A champions round through to the quarter finals could make sense." If it could work - you might be looking at the following:
ALL IRELAND PLAYOFF
Lowest 16 non provincial finalists based on league.
PROVINCIAL CHAMPIONS PLAYOFF
4 provincial winners.
ALL IRELAND ROUND 1
4 provincial runners up, 1 Tailteann winner, 7 league qualifiers and 8 AI playoff winners.
ALL IRELAND ROUND 2
2 Provincial Champions playoff losers and 10 AI Round 1 winners.
ALL IRELAND QUARTER FINALS
2 Provincial Champions playoff winners and 6 AI Round 2 winners.
Knockout Tailteann Cup for the All-Ireland playoff losers up for discussion with the counties most likely to be involved.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8755 - 28/04/2025 14:17:39
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think a champions round straight through to the semis wouldn't be good at all, Kerry or Dublin already had an easy road over the years to quarterfinals, no way should they get 2 bites at a semi final place.
A champions round through to the quarter finals could make sense." If it could work - you might be looking at the following:
ALL IRELAND PLAYOFF
Lowest 16 non provincial finalists based on league.
PROVINCIAL CHAMPIONS PLAYOFF
4 provincial winners.
ALL IRELAND ROUND 1
4 provincial runners up, 1 Tailteann winner, 7 league qualifiers and 8 AI playoff winners.
ALL IRELAND ROUND 2
2 Provincial Champions playoff losers and 10 AI Round 1 winners.
ALL IRELAND QUARTER FINALS
2 Provincial Champions playoff winners and 6 AI Round 2 winners.
Knockout Tailteann Cup for the All-Ireland playoff losers up for discussion with the counties most likely to be involved.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8755 - 28/04/2025 14:18:11
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Replying To legendzxix: "If it could work - you might be looking at the following:
ALL IRELAND PLAYOFF
Lowest 16 non provincial finalists based on league.
PROVINCIAL CHAMPIONS PLAYOFF
4 provincial winners.
ALL IRELAND ROUND 1
4 provincial runners up, 1 Tailteann winner, 7 league qualifiers and 8 AI playoff winners.
ALL IRELAND ROUND 2
2 Provincial Champions playoff losers and 10 AI Round 1 winners.
ALL IRELAND QUARTER FINALS
2 Provincial Champions playoff winners and 6 AI Round 2 winners.
Knockout Tailteann Cup for the All-Ireland playoff losers up for discussion with the counties most likely to be involved." Yeah, that's quite clean.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4515 - 28/04/2025 16:02:23
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think a champions round straight through to the semis wouldn't be good at all, Kerry or Dublin already had an easy road over the years to quarterfinals, no way should they get 2 bites at a semi final place.
A champions round through to the quarter finals could make sense." Yes, AIC QFs with 2 unbeaten Prov Champs and 6 via back door is fair to all. One of my 'very few' old ideas had this:
Prov Finals 8 + Other 24 (8 groups of 3)
Champs Rd 4 + 'Rd of 20' (4 losing Finalists +8 group top 2s)
'Rd of 12' (2 Champs Rd losers + 10 'Rd of 20' winners)
AIC QFs (2 Champs Rd winners + 6 'Rd of 12' winners)
SFs
F
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3225 - 28/04/2025 16:29:59
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Off topic - why was Armagh's 2nd last score yesterday not a two-pointer against Tyrone.
I thought it was clearly outside - maybe left foot just inside to negate?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3225 - 28/04/2025 16:53:55
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Replying To omahant: "Off topic - why was Armagh's 2nd last score yesterday not a two-pointer against Tyrone.
I thought it was clearly outside - maybe left foot just inside to negate?" They seldom get the benefit of the doubt
19616609 (Louth) - Posts: 1683 - 28/04/2025 17:09:44
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