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Wexford Football 2025

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Replying To Lockerroomboy:  "Don't think st martins played a illegal player on purpose, simple/ stupid mistake definitely. But Castletown more than likely spread the rumour hoping county board would get wind of it maybe county board at fault too"
Not from Castletown but "rumour" isn't the right word to be using there

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 699 - 04/11/2025 14:12:32    2642986

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You can't drop 2 grades in one year. 100% on this. You can't be regraded and the regraded again after two rounds if you played with the first team, you can't play with the third team. I think in this case he didn't play last year so they assumed he could play with the third team. He played against our team, putting us out of the championship and made a big difference on the day. I hope this won't be swept under the carpet and the relevant fines etc will be made.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 04/11/2025 14:12:39    2642987

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Replying To beano:  "I'll answer the second part first.

The Lyng incident was brought up by the county board itself, nothing to with Castletown.

Secondly, if Shels started the row, and someone ran in looking to do damage, I don't think its Castletown's fault if they ended up getting a comuppence. Stuff is said in every match in the country, doesn't mean it has to escalate."
Interesting hearing about the Lyng story. Rules are rules and who was behind it is neither here or there. Personally I love the junior B grade as its a complete mix of players but for some older players its their way to still contribute to the game. I also get why the Martins would be upset about it as Junior B is the one grade that even in the earlier rounds rules are different which leads everyone to think that its all a bit of fun.
Who the whole thing started in have heard two different versions but spectators getting involved is completely out of order. However I think what may be the question of what's reasonable, from the video you would have say that may be what the issue is. No doubt the kid should not have been there and was stupid in what he appeared to be doing but does an adult not owe a greater sense of care in that situation. Take that situation out of a GAA grounds and as the same question.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2114 - 04/11/2025 14:13:27    2642988

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Still on the thing about regradings and eligibility -

@formertownie - you can definitely go back two steps in one way through the process I've explained. As stated, I know of one such case.

A player who was hardly even getting a run for a Junior B team (his club's third team) lined out with his club's first team in a Round 5 group match, when they were short a few, when the result didn't matter because they were headed for the relegation final anyway, and when they didn't want to bring up anyone from their second team because they were going well in their own championship and didn't want to lose anyone.

The following year, he was first regraded back to the second team. He didn't play at all in Round 1 or Round 2 for the first or second team, and he was then regraded again, back to the third team.

You're correct that the second round of regradings are subject to CCC approval. Sticking with St. Martin's as an example:

Rory O'Connor would be among those regraded in bulk from first team to second team at the start of the year. Now let's say he's injured at the start of the championships and misses the first two rounds, and they have a Junior B match coming up before either the seniors or juniors are to play again. They could apply to regrade him back another step for that match, but that sort of one wouldn't be approved. However, it could be approved in the other circumstances I've described about the other player.

As regards an "actual objection" - not the way I heard it. Just that somebody happened to ask a Co. Board official, they looked into it, and felt duty-bound to inform St. Martin's about the situation.

@paddybull - you might have been given wrong information or the circumstances might have been slightly different, but the one I'm talking about definitely happened and was definitely approved by CCC. The list of all regradings is sent to all clubs and I've checked back to make sure I'm correct on this. And yes, it was St. Anne's who were punished for the same thing earlier in the year.

@alwaysasub - again, the case I'm talking about definitely happened and was definitely approved. But you're right that if you're regraded at start of year and then play for the first team in the first two matches, you can't be regraded back two steps after that. You can only ever go back one step at a time.

And it's not that Lyng didn't play last year. He played senior, in Wicklow. He just didn't play in Wexford. And since he'd played for that club's first team in Wicklow, his status was automatically set to the first team of his "new" club (St. Martin's) this year. They'd have had to regrade him to make him eligible for a lower grade, but they didn't do this. Think everybody accepts it was just an unfortunate oversight because they didn't realise they'd have to, but that still doesn't change the bottom line.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3219 - 04/11/2025 15:13:46    2643002

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Replying To Lockerroomboy:  "Don't think st martins played a illegal player on purpose, simple/ stupid mistake definitely. But Castletown more than likely spread the rumour hoping county board would get wind of it maybe county board at fault too"
And after that long post, a much shorter one here :)

Yes, no doubt a simple or stupid mistake or oversight by St. Martin's. But as ElGranSenor points out above, "rumour" is the wrong word here.

Also yes, maybe Co. Board is at fault for not picking up on it earlier. Also occurs to me that all bar the last two matches he played (county quarter-final and semi-final) would have been at Wexford District level, so maybe questions need to be asked of Wexford District Committee too, because they're the ones who would have had opportunity to spot it much earlier in the year.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3219 - 04/11/2025 15:20:17    2643004

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Thanks pikeman you answered both quetions .
On the regrading it sounds like its down to discretion of CCC to approve 2nd regradingin single year and only in certain circumstances . Fair play to thst junior b firxsteppjng uo fot his club in that instance.
St Martins prob wont face any sanction so .
And mistake or not as no official complaint made .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 490 - 04/11/2025 16:11:34    2643016

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Replying To beano:  "I'll answer the second part first.

The Lyng incident was brought up by the county board itself, nothing to with Castletown.

Secondly, if Shels started the row, and someone ran in looking to do damage, I don't think its Castletown's fault if they ended up getting a comuppence. Stuff is said in every match in the country, doesn't mean it has to escalate."
Welll it did escalate and what happened was disgraceful. The showcase event for club football turned into something akin to a faction fight. If that happened outside confines of Wexford Park the riot squad would be called in. I'd expect co board to take appropriate action - otherwise it's a joke.

Dirk1971 (Wexford) - Posts: 5 - 04/11/2025 22:05:33    2643075

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Thanks pikeman you answered both quetions .
On the regrading it sounds like its down to discretion of CCC to approve 2nd regradingin single year and only in certain circumstances . Fair play to thst junior b firxsteppjng uo fot his club in that instance.
St Martins prob wont face any sanction so .
And mistake or not as no official complaint made ."
As regards St. Martin's facing punishment or not -

Am fairly sure the plenary powers of the CCC mean they could take action if they wanted to, even in spite of no official complaint having come in from another club along the way.

But I don't think they would, and I don't think there'd be anything to be gained from it. Would think even CCC would accept it was an accidental and unfortunate oversight.

Can understand how they felt duty-bound to inform St. Martin's of the situation when they became aware of it. But don't think they'd feel duty-bound to now go and issue sanctions, particularly since fielding an illegal player is one of those serious ones where Club Chairman & Secretary can face a long suspension as well as the player, and where a big fine could be handed down. Would be a different story if St. Martin's had been deliberately trying to pull a fast one all along, but since it was a genuine mistake, think that sort of punishment would be too harsh altogether.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3219 - 04/11/2025 22:35:04    2643078

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Thanks pikeman you answered both quetions .
On the regrading it sounds like its down to discretion of CCC to approve 2nd regradingin single year and only in certain circumstances . Fair play to thst junior b firxsteppjng uo fot his club in that instance.
St Martins prob wont face any sanction so .
And mistake or not as no official complaint made ."
Its a tough one. If a club has a third team lads would have a deliberate reason to drop the whole way from first to thirds. I dont think anyone goes from Senior to Junior B with the mindset of doing it to win a county final. I would rather take the risk of keeping those lads involved than having them sit out a year. In a club with three teams the 1st and 2nds normally would train together and the thirds by themselves if at all. Some lads just cannot do it anymore but want to still play.
Wexford District had a good JB football competition but it started before the rest of the Adult Championship and in the first couple of games teams were dropping down players either from their firsts or second teams who they knew would not be playing later. That is within the rules but is it the right thing to be doing? I keep going on about data and how it can be used to analyse what is happening. The data is there to show the movement between the two, why is it not used. I feel sorry for Lyng in this one. And do you this the CCCC would have approved his request to play down in JB? More should be done to encourage teams to get a third team, too many players giving up early due to the commitment or not getting any games.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2114 - 05/11/2025 01:14:59    2643083

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "the football panel will be interesting after listening to hegerty talking to spratt, heard in park noone he has asked has turned him down, now i doubt thats true, we will now soon, were has the year gone?"
Finishing off last year on a low note and then the attention around the county final will put more pressure on. Perhaps its just that he knew who not to ask!

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2114 - 05/11/2025 09:41:21    2643097

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "As regards St. Martin's facing punishment or not -

Am fairly sure the plenary powers of the CCC mean they could take action if they wanted to, even in spite of no official complaint having come in from another club along the way.

But I don't think they would, and I don't think there'd be anything to be gained from it. Would think even CCC would accept it was an accidental and unfortunate oversight.

Can understand how they felt duty-bound to inform St. Martin's of the situation when they became aware of it. But don't think they'd feel duty-bound to now go and issue sanctions, particularly since fielding an illegal player is one of those serious ones where Club Chairman & Secretary can face a long suspension as well as the player, and where a big fine could be handed down. Would be a different story if St. Martin's had been deliberately trying to pull a fast one all along, but since it was a genuine mistake, think that sort of punishment would be too harsh altogether."
Agree, I don't think it was deliberate. Also agree I don't think any good would come of suspending a Chairman and/or Secretary, it's hard enough trying to fill those positions in the first place, given the hundreds of unpaid hours those lads have to do every year. Especially as neither was probably aware that playing in another county for a year still affected grading in this county. I wasn't aware that was the case myself, and obviously noone else was at the time as he played a whole Junior B campaign without it being raised.
I agree it's hard on the teams that lost games to them over the course of the season, but I also don't think there'd be any appetite from those teams to replay the whole Wexford District Junior B championship either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17491 - 05/11/2025 09:44:44    2643099

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Replying To zinny:  "Its a tough one. If a club has a third team lads would have a deliberate reason to drop the whole way from first to thirds. I dont think anyone goes from Senior to Junior B with the mindset of doing it to win a county final. I would rather take the risk of keeping those lads involved than having them sit out a year. In a club with three teams the 1st and 2nds normally would train together and the thirds by themselves if at all. Some lads just cannot do it anymore but want to still play.
Wexford District had a good JB football competition but it started before the rest of the Adult Championship and in the first couple of games teams were dropping down players either from their firsts or second teams who they knew would not be playing later. That is within the rules but is it the right thing to be doing? I keep going on about data and how it can be used to analyse what is happening. The data is there to show the movement between the two, why is it not used. I feel sorry for Lyng in this one. And do you this the CCCC would have approved his request to play down in JB? More should be done to encourage teams to get a third team, too many players giving up early due to the commitment or not getting any games."
Its hard enough for alot of clubs to field 2 teams never mind 3 Zinny!!!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17491 - 05/11/2025 09:45:33    2643100

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Replying To zinny:  "Finishing off last year on a low note and then the attention around the county final will put more pressure on. Perhaps its just that he knew who not to ask!"
That's a bit negative. There's alot of positivity around the Senior panel at the minute, the core players are largely the right side of 30, and there are some talented young prospects coming through each year now. Obviously div 3 is another step up, but hopefully John and the lads can peak again for the League rather than the Championship.
In any sport it's just not possible to keep a peak level of performance going for more than a month, maybe 2 if you are lucky. Even in professional sports. From soccer and rugby to AFL and NFL.
As our Football squad gets more quality players it will be possible to do what the top counties do, do well enough in the League while giving younger lads a chance to impress and stake a claim for championship appearances, then gradually filter your best players back in, especially the older lads. You can time your year to peak come championship then as a team, knowing you have a good enough panel to do well in the League without having all your top players peaking for it. We arent in that position yet, but there are encouraging signs that we are heading that way. Hopefully players can see this for themselves and buy in now.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17491 - 05/11/2025 11:44:21    2643120

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Replying To zinny:  "Its a tough one. If a club has a third team lads would have a deliberate reason to drop the whole way from first to thirds. I dont think anyone goes from Senior to Junior B with the mindset of doing it to win a county final. I would rather take the risk of keeping those lads involved than having them sit out a year. In a club with three teams the 1st and 2nds normally would train together and the thirds by themselves if at all. Some lads just cannot do it anymore but want to still play.
Wexford District had a good JB football competition but it started before the rest of the Adult Championship and in the first couple of games teams were dropping down players either from their firsts or second teams who they knew would not be playing later. That is within the rules but is it the right thing to be doing? I keep going on about data and how it can be used to analyse what is happening. The data is there to show the movement between the two, why is it not used. I feel sorry for Lyng in this one. And do you this the CCCC would have approved his request to play down in JB? More should be done to encourage teams to get a third team, too many players giving up early due to the commitment or not getting any games."
Just on this bit -
Wexford District had a good JB football competition but it started before the rest of the Adult Championship and in the first couple of games teams were dropping down players either from their firsts or second teams who they knew would not be playing later. That is within the rules but is it the right thing to be doing?

That's not actually within the rules. If a club has three teams, then a first team player can only drop back to the second team at the start of the year. He can't go straight back to the third. Only way he could ever go back to the third would be after two games played by the first & second teams, and so he obviously can't be made eligible for the third team before those other two teams play.

If first team players from clubs with three teams really were dropping back two grades to play the early rounds of Junior B, then the issue was more widespread than Ciarán Lyng and St. Martin's.

However, if a club only has two teams (with the second team being in Junior B), then would be perfectly okay under the rules for a first team player to drop back to that second team in Junior B, even if their first team was Senior. This is the bit that would be within the rules, but where you'd ask "is it the right thing to be doing?"

It used to be the case that anyone at all could play the early rounds of Junior B, before the higher grades had started. That was during the few years were every player had "free grading" at the start of the year, and could play at any level until they also played at a higher level that year.

But that was also the reason why the current regrading rules were brought in, to stop that sort of thing from happening.

By the way, when you understand it, it's actually far simpler than it looks from all these long posts trying to explain it!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3219 - 05/11/2025 12:09:06    2643126

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Just on this bit -
Wexford District had a good JB football competition but it started before the rest of the Adult Championship and in the first couple of games teams were dropping down players either from their firsts or second teams who they knew would not be playing later. That is within the rules but is it the right thing to be doing?

That's not actually within the rules. If a club has three teams, then a first team player can only drop back to the second team at the start of the year. He can't go straight back to the third. Only way he could ever go back to the third would be after two games played by the first & second teams, and so he obviously can't be made eligible for the third team before those other two teams play.

If first team players from clubs with three teams really were dropping back two grades to play the early rounds of Junior B, then the issue was more widespread than Ciarán Lyng and St. Martin's.

However, if a club only has two teams (with the second team being in Junior B), then would be perfectly okay under the rules for a first team player to drop back to that second team in Junior B, even if their first team was Senior. This is the bit that would be within the rules, but where you'd ask "is it the right thing to be doing?"

It used to be the case that anyone at all could play the early rounds of Junior B, before the higher grades had started. That was during the few years were every player had "free grading" at the start of the year, and could play at any level until they also played at a higher level that year.

But that was also the reason why the current regrading rules were brought in, to stop that sort of thing from happening.

By the way, when you understand it, it's actually far simpler than it looks from all these long posts trying to explain it!"
Sorry, I was not suggesting that they were dropping down from 1st to 3rd. The point was that if JB starts before the championship for the clubs next team above JB, clubs can use players they know that once the other championship starts they won't play JB again
Once one club does it everone thinks they have to do it, its another example of how we do things that are ultimately not in our best interests

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2114 - 05/11/2025 15:19:22    2643158

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@zinny - ah, I get now what you meant, and you understand it all right :D

- If a club only has two teams and the second one is at Junior B, then somebody can drop down from the first team to play there before the first team plays a match, no matter what level the first team plays at.
- However, if the club has three teams, then a first team player can't do the same. It's only players from the second team who could drop down to the third team at Junior B.

In the first championship round in the higher grades, the first team always plays first - e.g. seniors on Saturday, juniors on Sunday. This prevents a Lee Chin (for example) from playing for Harriers juniors before their seniors have a match.

To avoid somebody being able to drop down to Junior B before those matches, who'd be a certain starter at a higher grade when those championships begin, you'd have to wait until after first and second teams play championship before you'd start Junior B at all.

Either that, or come up with some other regrading system for Junior B which probably really would be complicated!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3219 - 05/11/2025 15:53:45    2643167

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hegarty said what the preposed league fixtures were for next year but i could not hear it clearly, i caught down at home, missed rest , what others did he mention?

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 3024 - 07/11/2025 16:29:10    2643404

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Your Intermediate Football Champions are down to play our representative this weekend; out of curiosity is there a big dual representation in St. Martin's? Presumably they want to do well in both or would the opportunity of a Leinster Hurling Final have an impact?

OverTheHill85 (Westmeath) - Posts: 164 - 11/11/2025 19:27:45    2644055

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Replying To OverTheHill85:  "Your Intermediate Football Champions are down to play our representative this weekend; out of curiosity is there a big dual representation in St. Martin's? Presumably they want to do well in both or would the opportunity of a Leinster Hurling Final have an impact?"
I presume they'll fulfil the fixture this weekend, but I don't think the result will bother them tbh. It's all about hurling, and after last weeks result who can blame them.

Yellaman (Wexford) - Posts: 199 - 12/11/2025 15:32:49    2644187

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Replying To OverTheHill85:  "Your Intermediate Football Champions are down to play our representative this weekend; out of curiosity is there a big dual representation in St. Martin's? Presumably they want to do well in both or would the opportunity of a Leinster Hurling Final have an impact?"
Just going by the county final programmes, ten named to start the Senior Hurling final had also started the Intermediate Football Final the week before, so you'd have to say that's a big dual representation all right.

But bit like Yellaman says above, I can't imagine they'll be leaving down the hurls all this week to concentrate on football instead. Hurling is very much their focus all the time anyway, and I'd say even more so now.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3219 - 12/11/2025 15:54:50    2644190

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