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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Added Lee Chin along the way tbf
I always say you need at least two Senior hurlers from each crop, we got two from that age group with Dee and Chin" Compare to the 1997 U14 all Ireland winning team you had John O Connor,Keith Rossiter,Des Mythen,Rory Jacob and Adrian Flynn who went with footballers.
Lee went to Disneyland the week of the Tony Forristal. He was more interested in soccer around that age. Think he stopped hurling for a year or two between 18 and 20. Didn't travel with u21 hurlers in 2012, came back in 2013 as captain then he was nearly going down route of playing football until Liam Dunne met him and told him that he was a better footballer than Lee and turned his head towards the hurlers. The rest is history.
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 69 - 09/06/2025 22:07:40
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Replying To wexford2012: "Very interesting and the outcomes for this team pretty much align with the Clare experience of 1 players per team making it to senior county. Its a pitiful return and as the 'ask' gets more to play senior intercounty this could rise if nothing is done.
I've suggested before that if we did nothing other than put a plan in place to address player retention we could see radical results. If we could shift to a progression average of 2 from this age group we'd substantially increase our player pool. This could mean selecting for not just playing ability but psychological traits - grit etc. I think I've heard 10+ years ago Liam Griffin making these same arguments.
I would guess Waterford had an above average return from that team and if we looked at other Waterford cohorts they would not be getting anything near 7 players. This happens, the Cork 1997 u21 team produced a raft of senior players." This from subsequent years that played with Waterford
2007 Tony Forristal Gavin O'Brien
(Beat Tipp In Final) Jake Dillon
2007 Sonny Walsh Jamie Barron
Shane McNulty
Tadgh De Burca
2008 - Tony Forristal Colin Dunford
Tadgh De Burca
Shane McNulty
2008 - Sonny Walsh Ryan Donnelly
Stephen Bennett
2009 - Tony Forristal Austin Gleeson (Goalkeeper)
(Lost to Tipp in Final) Michael Harney
Tom Devine
Stephen Bennett
DJ Foran
Michael Kearney
2009 - Sonny Walsh Patrick Curran
(Beat Tipp in Sonny Walsh Final) Shane Bennett
Cormac Curran
2010 - Tony Forristal Colm Roche
(Beat Kilkenny in Final) Conor Gleeson
Patrick Curran
Shane Bennett
Cormac Curran
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 69 - 09/06/2025 22:12:06
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Replying To Viking66: "Seeing it laid out like that it's actually surprising how many of that team played u21 intercounty. I thought it would be less tbh." And I would say that James Gordon would have been best player at that age group, even better than Dee. He was big strong runner, good under high ball, played centre back, more developed than majority of his age group. Good at both hurling and football. Similar characteristics to Michael Fennelly. Unfortunately ACL and hip injuries at such young age hampered him a lot. If he had been able to stay injury free I'd say would have been good senior prospect too. But I suppose how many of these "could have beens" are in the county.
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 69 - 09/06/2025 22:24:30
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Replying To Viking66: "This year Kilkenny have an exceptionally good group. Wouldn't surprise me if they won it out. We were missing players in both games against Galway, the first we were missing the St Peters lads who were on a school tour, the second we were missing some of our best players with injury, Sean O Brien and Rhys Wickham especially. We won our other 2 games in Leinster, we beat Dublins minors by 9 points, which is our biggest win against them in many years, and we beat a good Laois minor team in the QF who were fresh off of beating Offalys minors by 30 odd points.
The Limerick game we gave them way too much space around the middle 3rd in the 1st half which was very disappointing. And then we went for goals way too early as a result of being so far down, turning down enough easy points to have close the gap to 2 or 3 points coming into injury time at which point a goal wouldve tied it for us. We were actually well on top in the last quarter. Probably the 2nd half overall. Injuries to key players also didnt help. While Sean O Brien started he wouldn't have if it hadn't of been a knockout game, and Rhys Wickham wasn't fit to start either. Devereux one of our best backs was missing with injury also." Is Sean O Brien 18 next year it's very important we look after his development
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 653 - 09/06/2025 23:31:20
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Replying To Afinestick96: "From what I hear There is very good work going in at u14, 15, 16s . Where in your opinion are we falling behind when we get to u17?" I have seen the exact opposite with those age groups unfortunately. That is where we are falling behind. by time get to u-17 we are already too far behind.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 821 - 10/06/2025 09:28:37
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Viking,
I respect your posts a lot and that you are a passionate Wexford man travelling the length and breath of the country in both codes. So kudos for that.
But every post explaining a loss has a lot of ifs, buts, and maybes.
Every team since day dot has had injuries. Every team since day dot has had bad refereeing decisions. In Wexford, a bad refereeing decision is used as an excuse to fold the tent and say "that is our out".
Results like that v Kilkenny must never ever be acceptable. No matter how good their minors are, it was equally how bad ours were. This has to be confronted head on and questions asked about the hurlers Wexford are creating and the preparation of the team.
When that goal that wasn't went in v Dublin, where was the collective "we will show these" anger and upping of work rate. Where was the victim anger v Galway? After Wexford lost to Westmeath, where was the "this must never happen again" attitude to prevent it happening v Antrim a year later?
Instead in Wexford, we point elsewhere. If its not the referee its an injury its something else.
When are we going to be honest as a county and say we are not producing enough good hurlers on a year on year basis?
Look at Kildare and what Brian Dowling has done there. Imagine what a top paid coach like him could do with our development squads or a combined schools team.
What credentials did our Director of Hurling have to get the job, and I ask that without knowing a thing about him.
The time for excuses is long past. Limerick cried foul for 20 years over Gary Kirby before admitting they had to try a different approach and look where that got them.
We need to take a similar path. No more poor old us and our tale of woe. We don't need "root and brach" rubbish, just more top coaching, more focus on coaching in our schools and a better club product than championship matches with nothing on the line.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1862 - 10/06/2025 09:35:46
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Replying To Viking66: "This year Kilkenny have an exceptionally good group. Wouldn't surprise me if they won it out. We were missing players in both games against Galway, the first we were missing the St Peters lads who were on a school tour, the second we were missing some of our best players with injury, Sean O Brien and Rhys Wickham especially. We won our other 2 games in Leinster, we beat Dublins minors by 9 points, which is our biggest win against them in many years, and we beat a good Laois minor team in the QF who were fresh off of beating Offalys minors by 30 odd points.
The Limerick game we gave them way too much space around the middle 3rd in the 1st half which was very disappointing. And then we went for goals way too early as a result of being so far down, turning down enough easy points to have close the gap to 2 or 3 points coming into injury time at which point a goal wouldve tied it for us. We were actually well on top in the last quarter. Probably the 2nd half overall. Injuries to key players also didnt help. While Sean O Brien started he wouldn't have if it hadn't of been a knockout game, and Rhys Wickham wasn't fit to start either. Devereux one of our best backs was missing with injury also." I think he means in general over the ling term. Wr always hear of how good our younger teams are but when we get to u17 ls we generally don't see the fruits of that good work. Any thoughts on why?
It seems to me we are always quoting excuses and hindrances such as set up and injuries
WEXILE (Wexford) - Posts: 421 - 10/06/2025 09:44:13
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Is Sean O Brien 18 next year it's very important we look after his development" He can hurl for Wex but cant hurl adult for club?
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 821 - 10/06/2025 10:15:29
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Replying To countyman2022: "He can hurl for Wex but cant hurl adult for club?" Yes I think so. Its a ridiculous rule that has to be changed for next year
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 653 - 10/06/2025 10:23:42
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I see an article in Wexford Weekly mentions a plan unifying efforts between schools and clubs to bring more young people into Gaelic football and hurling locally. It focuses on developing skills in younger players and promoting initiatives such as Hurling 365 or Cúl Camps. Each club in the county will have a dedicated coaching officer to facilitate this skill development with underage GAA players in Wexford
When is this being put in place lads sounds like a good idea?
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 653 - 10/06/2025 10:26:08
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Replying To Afinestick96: "I see an article in Wexford Weekly mentions a plan unifying efforts between schools and clubs to bring more young people into Gaelic football and hurling locally. It focuses on developing skills in younger players and promoting initiatives such as Hurling 365 or Cúl Camps. Each club in the county will have a dedicated coaching officer to facilitate this skill development with underage GAA players in Wexford
When is this being put in place lads sounds like a good idea?" We were all supposed to have dedicated coaching officers and proper coaching plans this year. Sadly some still don't.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16311 - 10/06/2025 12:07:16
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Replying To WEXILE: "I think he means in general over the ling term. Wr always hear of how good our younger teams are but when we get to u17 ls we generally don't see the fruits of that good work. Any thoughts on why?
It seems to me we are always quoting excuses and hindrances such as set up and injuries" Our u14, u15 , u16 development squads only really started as they are now after covid. Some changes like no county dual players were only introduced at u14 last year. The ASH u12 scheme was only introduced year before last.
With all that in mind when I wrote that post I only covered this year's minors. And even at that they didn't fully come up through from our current u14 structure, as it has changed. Hopefully we will see improved results at minor over the next few years, but 2 things have to be borne in mind also, namely minor is still young schoolboy stuff really, these lads are only junior cert age. And the other thing is that most of the other counties are improving also, so we have to keep up firstly, then catch up, then overtake in terms of development. No magic wand will do this for us.
And development is the key word. I'm 54, I couldn't give a fiddlers if we never win a minor AI, I want to see us win another Senior one.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16311 - 10/06/2025 12:15:42
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Replying To camánouttathat: "This from subsequent years that played with Waterford
2007 Tony Forristal Gavin O'Brien
(Beat Tipp In Final) Jake Dillon
2007 Sonny Walsh Jamie Barron
Shane McNulty
Tadgh De Burca
2008 - Tony Forristal Colin Dunford
Tadgh De Burca
Shane McNulty
2008 - Sonny Walsh Ryan Donnelly
Stephen Bennett
2009 - Tony Forristal Austin Gleeson (Goalkeeper)
(Lost to Tipp in Final) Michael Harney
Tom Devine
Stephen Bennett
DJ Foran
Michael Kearney
2009 - Sonny Walsh Patrick Curran
(Beat Tipp in Sonny Walsh Final) Shane Bennett
Cormac Curran
2010 - Tony Forristal Colm Roche
(Beat Kilkenny in Final) Conor Gleeson
Patrick Curran
Shane Bennett
Cormac Curran" That was an exceptionally good group. They were the best u21 team I ever saw when they won it in 2016.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16311 - 10/06/2025 12:17:54
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Replying To countyman2022: "I have seen the exact opposite with those age groups unfortunately. That is where we are falling behind. by time get to u-17 we are already too far behind." You should go in with the u15s help out next year. This year's u14s are a great group.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16311 - 10/06/2025 12:19:43
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Replying To Viking66: "We were all supposed to have dedicated coaching officers and proper coaching plans this year. Sadly some still don't." Which is ridiculous. Falling further and further behind.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 821 - 10/06/2025 12:26:32
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Replying To Viking66: "We were all supposed to have dedicated coaching officers and proper coaching plans this year. Sadly some still don't." Mentioned it here before. Hurling 365 training happened about 4 times this year in local primary school. Cancelled a lot for one reason or another.
We have a problem with numbers. Loads of 6+ going soccer academy but not going to gaa coaching for same age group.
Yellowhelmet (Australia) - Posts: 152 - 10/06/2025 12:27:57
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Viking,
I respect your posts a lot and that you are a passionate Wexford man travelling the length and breath of the country in both codes. So kudos for that.
But every post explaining a loss has a lot of ifs, buts, and maybes.
Every team since day dot has had injuries. Every team since day dot has had bad refereeing decisions. In Wexford, a bad refereeing decision is used as an excuse to fold the tent and say "that is our out".
Results like that v Kilkenny must never ever be acceptable. No matter how good their minors are, it was equally how bad ours were. This has to be confronted head on and questions asked about the hurlers Wexford are creating and the preparation of the team.
When that goal that wasn't went in v Dublin, where was the collective "we will show these" anger and upping of work rate. Where was the victim anger v Galway? After Wexford lost to Westmeath, where was the "this must never happen again" attitude to prevent it happening v Antrim a year later?
Instead in Wexford, we point elsewhere. If its not the referee its an injury its something else.
When are we going to be honest as a county and say we are not producing enough good hurlers on a year on year basis?
Look at Kildare and what Brian Dowling has done there. Imagine what a top paid coach like him could do with our development squads or a combined schools team.
What credentials did our Director of Hurling have to get the job, and I ask that without knowing a thing about him.
The time for excuses is long past. Limerick cried foul for 20 years over Gary Kirby before admitting they had to try a different approach and look where that got them.
We need to take a similar path. No more poor old us and our tale of woe. We don't need "root and brach" rubbish, just more top coaching, more focus on coaching in our schools and a better club product than championship matches with nothing on the line." I agree we need to be far stronger mentally. And far more vocal when #### happens to us. As you say victim anger.
But at the same time I've watched thousands of games of hurling since the late 80s. I've watched hundreds of games that have involved Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny at different levels.
I can't remember a single occasion where 1 of those 3 counties lost a game by a point on account of a penalty being given for a foul yards outside the rectangle. I can't remember any of the 2 of them having a goal awarded against them that never crossed the line either. Both of those things happened to us in under a year.
You are absolutely right, collectively we should be ####### boiling, and use that anger to drive the whole thing on.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16311 - 10/06/2025 12:28:37
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Viking,
I respect your posts a lot and that you are a passionate Wexford man travelling the length and breath of the country in both codes. So kudos for that.
But every post explaining a loss has a lot of ifs, buts, and maybes.
Every team since day dot has had injuries. Every team since day dot has had bad refereeing decisions. In Wexford, a bad refereeing decision is used as an excuse to fold the tent and say "that is our out".
Results like that v Kilkenny must never ever be acceptable. No matter how good their minors are, it was equally how bad ours were. This has to be confronted head on and questions asked about the hurlers Wexford are creating and the preparation of the team.
When that goal that wasn't went in v Dublin, where was the collective "we will show these" anger and upping of work rate. Where was the victim anger v Galway? After Wexford lost to Westmeath, where was the "this must never happen again" attitude to prevent it happening v Antrim a year later?
Instead in Wexford, we point elsewhere. If its not the referee its an injury its something else.
When are we going to be honest as a county and say we are not producing enough good hurlers on a year on year basis?
Look at Kildare and what Brian Dowling has done there. Imagine what a top paid coach like him could do with our development squads or a combined schools team.
What credentials did our Director of Hurling have to get the job, and I ask that without knowing a thing about him.
The time for excuses is long past. Limerick cried foul for 20 years over Gary Kirby before admitting they had to try a different approach and look where that got them.
We need to take a similar path. No more poor old us and our tale of woe. We don't need "root and brach" rubbish, just more top coaching, more focus on coaching in our schools and a better club product than championship matches with nothing on the line." https://wexfordweekly.com/2022/09/07/wexford-gaa-reveal-their-new-director-of-hurling/wexford-news/
A bit of Nialls history for you
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16311 - 10/06/2025 12:30:14
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Replying To Viking66: "Our u14, u15 , u16 development squads only really started as they are now after covid. Some changes like no county dual players were only introduced at u14 last year. The ASH u12 scheme was only introduced year before last.
With all that in mind when I wrote that post I only covered this year's minors. And even at that they didn't fully come up through from our current u14 structure, as it has changed. Hopefully we will see improved results at minor over the next few years, but 2 things have to be borne in mind also, namely minor is still young schoolboy stuff really, these lads are only junior cert age. And the other thing is that most of the other counties are improving also, so we have to keep up firstly, then catch up, then overtake in terms of development. No magic wand will do this for us.
And development is the key word. I'm 54, I couldn't give a fiddlers if we never win a minor AI, I want to see us win another Senior one." 100% not the be all and end all if we never win a minor, the purpose of underage is to inevitably supply players for senior.
I have to admit tho I'd be fairly disappointed that these structures are only getting going as you said post covid. For years we've heard of hurling 365 and Wexford way etc. so basically whatever we were doing pre covid was an improvement but sub optimal. That's really disappointing but I understand a lot comes down to paid and unpaid coaches and its hard to get both and even harder to keep em. But there are pockets in Wexford where hurling is a religion and the coaching is voluntary and all for the love of the game. This inevitably feeds into county teams. It just seems those pockets have struggled as of late in creating a conveyer belt of county standard hurlers.
The likes of Rathnure and Oulart spring to mind. When you look at that team that Liam Dunne ushered in over a 2 year period....what program did these come through or were we just lucky a good bunch came along at the same time.
As far as Senior AI sure I'd love to win one more in my lifetime (I'm 44) even better win a string of em but even one is just not on the radar. The first step for us to be consistently competitive. We had a bit of that under Davy when we knew we'd be reasonably in with a shout.
WEXILE (Wexford) - Posts: 421 - 10/06/2025 14:06:36
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Replying To Viking66: "I agree we need to be far stronger mentally. And far more vocal when #### happens to us. As you say victim anger.
But at the same time I've watched thousands of games of hurling since the late 80s. I've watched hundreds of games that have involved Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny at different levels.
I can't remember a single occasion where 1 of those 3 counties lost a game by a point on account of a penalty being given for a foul yards outside the rectangle. I can't remember any of the 2 of them having a goal awarded against them that never crossed the line either. Both of those things happened to us in under a year.
You are absolutely right, collectively we should be ####### boiling, and use that anger to drive the whole thing on." Kilkenny v Tipp 2010. Turned the entire game.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 821 - 10/06/2025 14:19:03
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