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Replying To StoreysTash: ""That should still be possible without affecting club time, but the issue is the lack of good coaches prepared to put the time into our squads.
Viking66"
This is why Wexford need to think big. Commercially, Wexford seem to be right on the money. But we should be investing so much more in coaching than we do. Parents are the first coach, in the garden. Clubs are the second. Schools and teachers third.
But getting the best coaches over every county team and "coaching the coaches" has to become paramount if Wexford are to go anywhere.
It worked for Limerick albeit we don't have a billionaire benefactor." All of our efforts have to be going into coaching now. The county board to their credit have delivered two great facilities in Wexford Park and the centre of excellence. Its time to really put our focus on coaching and player development now.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 600 - 14/05/2025 09:21:36
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Maybe I've become too negative at this stage, but would anyone else prefer just to exit at the group stage at this rate and try and get our house in order then for next year?
The writing is really on the wall if we somehow manage to finish 3rd and it's shaping up to be a Cork-Limerick Munster final also.
OpenStandWall (Wexford) - Posts: 259 - 14/05/2025 09:42:20
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Replying To gannett83: "Well lads after a few days to stew over the result against Galway just wondering are we being to harsh on Rossiter.. or are we just not good enough end of??i came across darragh Egans last game on YouTube against kk in Wexford park the one if we lost we dropped to Joe McDonagh.. the team that started that day was Lawlor Donohoe Ryan devitt Ian carty o hanlon Joe o Conor Dee o keefe Kevin foley Oisín foley McGovern Jack o Connor Rory chin and Mac.. only 7 of that team are playing now and when ya think of it Ryan hasn't been available for nearly a full year.. I'm just wondering are we being harsh it is a rebuilding job my issue is we don't seem to know what we are doing at times with the wind or without it.. if we are going long we don't seem to have the ball winners in half forward line if we play the running game from defense we are not strong enough to play that game… also can i ask why we don't hade a Wexford man as a hurling coach… Davys time it was soairse Buffon.. Egans time it was Niall o loughlin and now David franks with Rossiter… really hope we can get Joe fortune involved over next year or so i believe he is with gorey this year and been very impressive" We are being harsh on Keith in ways based on retirements and injuries and real bad bad luck (refs and goals) but this business is so volatile and all we want to see is improvement and learning from mistakes. Thats my frustration with it all. David Franks and Des Mythen has to see conceding puckouts does not suit the men we have and why did it take 60 minutes against Dublin to mark their big ff??? Against Galway Mannion was on fire but who was marking him as it wasn't working! Keith needs better help if he is to stay on. We are going to lose significant players next year, that's the real word on the street not just to retirement but travel too! The setup needs a new injection of life as it seems stale and non reactive.
I met a NE Gorey player a few weeks ago (friend of own young lad) and he said they are blown away by Joe Fortunes coaching and work he is doing with them. Don't think he's full time with them but I am not surprised. They likely have too many injuries to take back a title from St Martin's but he couldn't speak highly enough of the standards and mindset Fortune has. I think he'd be a huge addition to Keith if it was a runner as he has a lot of experience in management/coaching at all levels, and unlike the likes of Tom M he actually has won provincial underage titles and club titles and served inter county senior beating and drawing with us twice!
96andproud (Wexford) - Posts: 34 - 14/05/2025 09:52:13
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Replying To 96andproud: "We are being harsh on Keith in ways based on retirements and injuries and real bad bad luck (refs and goals) but this business is so volatile and all we want to see is improvement and learning from mistakes. Thats my frustration with it all. David Franks and Des Mythen has to see conceding puckouts does not suit the men we have and why did it take 60 minutes against Dublin to mark their big ff??? Against Galway Mannion was on fire but who was marking him as it wasn't working! Keith needs better help if he is to stay on. We are going to lose significant players next year, that's the real word on the street not just to retirement but travel too! The setup needs a new injection of life as it seems stale and non reactive.
I met a NE Gorey player a few weeks ago (friend of own young lad) and he said they are blown away by Joe Fortunes coaching and work he is doing with them. Don't think he's full time with them but I am not surprised. They likely have too many injuries to take back a title from St Martin's but he couldn't speak highly enough of the standards and mindset Fortune has. I think he'd be a huge addition to Keith if it was a runner as he has a lot of experience in management/coaching at all levels, and unlike the likes of Tom M he actually has won provincial underage titles and club titles and served inter county senior beating and drawing with us twice!" Think we need a new injection of life into the management team whether that be Joe Fortune or Tom Mulally . Im not saying Keith needs to go thats upto the county board. It is frustrating how slow we are at making decisions on the line however. I too fear for the next few years with likes of Lee, Mac, Fanning, Jippo , Jacko stepping away. I had to be negative about Wexford hurling but I dont think the calibre of player is near as high behind those lads. We really need the likes of Shane & Damien Reck, Rory O Connor, Cian Byrne , Conor Hearne etc to step up another level and also the lads behind them need to become far more consistent if we are to compete
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 600 - 14/05/2025 11:10:23
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Replying To Viking66: "Hopefully Keith will stay on. He got 3 years, he should do them.
I woke up this morning did the 1st school run and went for the usual walk. Around a quarter of the way in I started to feel very ####ing angry tbh. We have been shafted. It's all very well lads saying we aren't quite good enough under Keith, but most games between top teams are settled by very small margins. Would the narrative last year have been we weren't quite good enough if we had of made a Leinster Final? Well, we would've made a Leinster Final if Kilkenny hadn't of been given a penalty for a foul that was 2 yards outside the area. Now that's not a matter of interpretation, it's a black and white situation according to the rules of the game. A penalty is awarded for a foul in the large rectangle. I remember at the time saying to a friend that that was a black and white situation, exactly the same as whether a goal is a goal or not. I actually said imagine if a referee wasn't sure if a goal was a goal but went ahead and gave a goal anyway. Fast forward a year and look what happened to us this year.......I'm ####ing boiling still tbh...... and I can only imagine Keith feels worse about it......" Funny you should say that. I had almost the exact same thought this morning.
The context of my thinking was how different the whole attitude and enthusiasm in the camp would be if we got the rub of the green now and then.
Imagine starting this year after playing a Leinster final and how different everyone's attitude would be if you could point to some measure of progress rather than constantly losing out on those fine margins.
For the younger lads especially. They'll improve way faster.
Limerick had a great 21 team in 01/02 who got no luck and did nothing at senior.
Would all their stars be who they are now if not for the first big win?
What might our 2019 group have gone on to do with a little more luck?
Same with Dublin in 13. They barely got out of Wexford Park, then improved and won Leinster.
Clare in 13, barely got out of thurles with us then won the all Ireland.
No point whining about it but it's incredibly frustrating.
I thought our luck was turning in the Park vs Antrim but that phantom goal in Parnell was an absolute disaster that has really defined our season
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3590 - 14/05/2025 11:20:16
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Replying To OpenStandWall: "Maybe I've become too negative at this stage, but would anyone else prefer just to exit at the group stage at this rate and try and get our house in order then for next year?
The writing is really on the wall if we somehow manage to finish 3rd and it's shaping up to be a Cork-Limerick Munster final also." I think you're on the money to be honest.
We're not at the races and we know the impact of a big defeat on young lads.
Cork 04 springs to mind.
The best outcome is probably to hammer Offaly if we can then give a really good performance against kk, then start looking at how we come out of the blocks for promotion next January
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3590 - 14/05/2025 11:25:33
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Replying To Viking66: "Hopefully Keith will stay on. He got 3 years, he should do them.
I woke up this morning did the 1st school run and went for the usual walk. Around a quarter of the way in I started to feel very ####ing angry tbh. We have been shafted. It's all very well lads saying we aren't quite good enough under Keith, but most games between top teams are settled by very small margins. Would the narrative last year have been we weren't quite good enough if we had of made a Leinster Final? Well, we would've made a Leinster Final if Kilkenny hadn't of been given a penalty for a foul that was 2 yards outside the area. Now that's not a matter of interpretation, it's a black and white situation according to the rules of the game. A penalty is awarded for a foul in the large rectangle. I remember at the time saying to a friend that that was a black and white situation, exactly the same as whether a goal is a goal or not. I actually said imagine if a referee wasn't sure if a goal was a goal but went ahead and gave a goal anyway. Fast forward a year and look what happened to us this year.......I'm ####ing boiling still tbh...... and I can only imagine Keith feels worse about it......" It's been a tough week Viking. We look forward to the championship all year then our campaign is more than likely over already. I really thought coming into the championship to compete for a Leinster final place. That goal call in Parnell Park was a sucker punch. All we can do is do our job on Saturday and pray we get some luck with the Dubs winning on Sunday. At least then its in our own hands going into the final day
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 600 - 14/05/2025 11:40:31
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Replying To Afinestick96: "All of our efforts have to be going into coaching now. The county board to their credit have delivered two great facilities in Wexford Park and the centre of excellence. Its time to really put our focus on coaching and player development now." Good Counsel played St Kierans in a first year Leinster final yesterday - got well beaten
However the worrying point for me is 12 of the starting 15 were from Kilkenny.
It possibly shows how far behind we are as a county - if we cannot get the basics right at that 10-13 age group we are always going to be on the back foot.
I've been involved in coaching from U6-U12 both hurling and camogie over last number of years. I am noticing a lot of the dual underage clubs are fairly poor at those grades. The standard of the basic skills on the vast majority of players is well below what i'd expect. However - I also notice (especially in Camogie) that the clubs who play football are much better at running and basic functional movement.
For me (and this isn't an anti football rant), we are a small dual county. Most of our clubs are rural clubs and all players play both hurling and football. Surely there is a way that our Coaching can integrate both into those important years where we teach the skills of hurling and the movement / speed of football. I don't think the current system is working - one night football / one night hurling. The most important skills of hurling cannot be learned / mastered in that timeframe.
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 186 - 14/05/2025 11:41:06
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Replying To 96andproud: "We are being harsh on Keith in ways based on retirements and injuries and real bad bad luck (refs and goals) but this business is so volatile and all we want to see is improvement and learning from mistakes. Thats my frustration with it all. David Franks and Des Mythen has to see conceding puckouts does not suit the men we have and why did it take 60 minutes against Dublin to mark their big ff??? Against Galway Mannion was on fire but who was marking him as it wasn't working! Keith needs better help if he is to stay on. We are going to lose significant players next year, that's the real word on the street not just to retirement but travel too! The setup needs a new injection of life as it seems stale and non reactive.
I met a NE Gorey player a few weeks ago (friend of own young lad) and he said they are blown away by Joe Fortunes coaching and work he is doing with them. Don't think he's full time with them but I am not surprised. They likely have too many injuries to take back a title from St Martin's but he couldn't speak highly enough of the standards and mindset Fortune has. I think he'd be a huge addition to Keith if it was a runner as he has a lot of experience in management/coaching at all levels, and unlike the likes of Tom M he actually has won provincial underage titles and club titles and served inter county senior beating and drawing with us twice!" Joe and the county board don't have the greatest of relationships although that may be more with individuals than overall.
I know Joe and yes he is a very good coach, has a good approach a d good way about him.
It isn't about being harsh it's about controlling what you can. When analysing these things you can only control the controllables. And enough about refs and all this shtick, all excuses imho when there are other glaring issues within out control that are the biggest factors.
It's all ifs buts and maybes, yes the ref made a mistake in the Dublin game. But the reality is we were outplayed, outthought on the line, outfought on the pitch and defensively poor. Just to put it into perspective Dublin scored more against us than they did against Antrim who finished the game with 14 men.
Our approach to fhe game against Dublin significantly affected our performance that day, that's within our control, we got it wrong. Our inability to change tact quick enough again was a significant factor, we got it wrong. All things within our control.
Fast forward to the Galway game and it's the same story for me along with a team selection that's within our control that I and almost everyone else on here agrees was wrong.
This is all stuff we can control and we are getting wrong to begin with and almost like deer caught in the headlights seem incapable of changing mid game.
That's not bejng harsh, that's the reality unfortunately. It's a cutthroat business, I really like Rossiter, how he handles himself and what he's done in the game but the reality is him and his coaches need to up their game. But I do wonder whether Rossi is putting too much trust in his coaches and their approach.
No matter what happens for the rest of the year I definitely believe Rossi should be manager next year but he probably should take the Cody approach and freshen up his backroom team at this stage cos I think plain and simply we have gotten it wrong in our tactics, set up, selection in certain circumstances and inability to switch.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1503 - 14/05/2025 11:46:01
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Replying To 96andproud: "We are being harsh on Keith in ways based on retirements and injuries and real bad bad luck (refs and goals) but this business is so volatile and all we want to see is improvement and learning from mistakes. Thats my frustration with it all. David Franks and Des Mythen has to see conceding puckouts does not suit the men we have and why did it take 60 minutes against Dublin to mark their big ff??? Against Galway Mannion was on fire but who was marking him as it wasn't working! Keith needs better help if he is to stay on. We are going to lose significant players next year, that's the real word on the street not just to retirement but travel too! The setup needs a new injection of life as it seems stale and non reactive.
I met a NE Gorey player a few weeks ago (friend of own young lad) and he said they are blown away by Joe Fortunes coaching and work he is doing with them. Don't think he's full time with them but I am not surprised. They likely have too many injuries to take back a title from St Martin's but he couldn't speak highly enough of the standards and mindset Fortune has. I think he'd be a huge addition to Keith if it was a runner as he has a lot of experience in management/coaching at all levels, and unlike the likes of Tom M he actually has won provincial underage titles and club titles and served inter county senior beating and drawing with us twice!" Tom Mullaly won Leinster and AI club titles with Naas, and a Leinster Senior Hurling title with MLR, who after beating a very good Loughgiel side in the AISF (Loughgiel were AI club champions just 2 years previous) were very unlucky to lose James Hickey their inspirational captain to injury before their AI defeat to Portumna (Hickey is also now a very good manager). He won as selector/coach a Kilkenny Senior club title with Clara, who hadn't won one for around 30 years before that.
He got us to the 2018 Leinster u21 final, when we lost at the end of extra time to a hail mary goal.
He won the Joe Mac with Carlow, and managed them to a draw against Kilkenny in Leinster last year.
I do think Fortune is an excellent manager also BTW.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15777 - 14/05/2025 11:50:45
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Replying To MyOhMi: "Good Counsel played St Kierans in a first year Leinster final yesterday - got well beaten
However the worrying point for me is 12 of the starting 15 were from Kilkenny.
It possibly shows how far behind we are as a county - if we cannot get the basics right at that 10-13 age group we are always going to be on the back foot.
I've been involved in coaching from U6-U12 both hurling and camogie over last number of years. I am noticing a lot of the dual underage clubs are fairly poor at those grades. The standard of the basic skills on the vast majority of players is well below what i'd expect. However - I also notice (especially in Camogie) that the clubs who play football are much better at running and basic functional movement.
For me (and this isn't an anti football rant), we are a small dual county. Most of our clubs are rural clubs and all players play both hurling and football. Surely there is a way that our Coaching can integrate both into those important years where we teach the skills of hurling and the movement / speed of football. I don't think the current system is working - one night football / one night hurling. The most important skills of hurling cannot be learned / mastered in that timeframe." Sadly alot of our clubs, and I'd include some of the biggest clubs in this, aren't doing 1 night Football and 1 night Hurling a week between u8 and u12. They are only doing 1 night period a week. It's not enough.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15777 - 14/05/2025 11:55:06
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What will the team be for Saturday lads. I heard reports of Shane Reck and Richie Lawlor may be struggling to play
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 600 - 14/05/2025 12:00:25
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Replying To OpenStandWall: "Maybe I've become too negative at this stage, but would anyone else prefer just to exit at the group stage at this rate and try and get our house in order then for next year?
The writing is really on the wall if we somehow manage to finish 3rd and it's shaping up to be a Cork-Limerick Munster final also." No, while I see your point you have to remain ambitious and go as far as you can. Players have to challenge themselves, as that is where the growth/development comes in.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 96 - 14/05/2025 12:05:42
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Id like to know what Louth have done with regards player development . I know they are a football only county but for a county with a smaller population than us they have reached 3 Leinster senior football finals in a row and are in this years under 20 and minor finals. What are they doing as regards coaching and player development? Personally I think we need to as a county decide if we are going to concentrate on hurling or football as we dont have the playing numbers to aim to being a top team in both hurling and football.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 600 - 14/05/2025 12:36:32
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Think a big issue for us this year was that we had Eoin Ryan, Cian Byrne, Conor Foley, and Richie Lawlor start most Championship games last year but the only real young starter we gained this year is Cian Molloy, could maybe argue the four just mentioned didn't kick on (Not too sure about this argument as the malaise seems team-wide)
Probably needed a few new starters, need at the very least a good few out of CBD, Darragh Carley, Jack Redmond, Tucker Kinsella, Eoin Whelan, Simon Roche, Seán Rowley, and Cillian Byrne to nail down starting places in the next year or two
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 504 - 14/05/2025 12:37:46
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Replying To wexford2012: "No, while I see your point you have to remain ambitious and go as far as you can. Players have to challenge themselves, as that is where the growth/development comes in." I agree fully with you. If the unlikely happens and we win along with the Dubs at the weekend we cant go into the game with Kilkenny with a defeatist attitude. We have to go in with a mind set a win there would save our season.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 600 - 14/05/2025 12:38:19
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tearintom I 100% concur with every word of that.
I feel, as an outsider in the county, there is a bit of a woe is me vibe. If this hadn't happened, if that hadn't happened, etc. You can only control the controllables and in sport, **** happens that you can't control. You have to move on quickly in sport and stop looking for outs and excuses because its a ruthless results-based industry.
Like, against us the short puck out was not working and you kept getting turned over. Conceding to our puck out was not working yet it kept happening. Those are coaching calls.
Then there is the players decisions which are never scrutinised like the ones a ref makes.
Look at Limerick, I spend time there with work for many years. For years once I said I was living in Wexford the discussions often changed to Liam Dunne and Gary Kirby. But I remember one day a Limerick man said to me "no matter what happened he got a cut on his finger and we had 14 others v 14 men and still couldn't do it, and we hit Wexford as hard as they did".
Louth were screwed v Meath in that Leinster Final and after years the decided enough and started creating facilities and players to match Meath and Dublin and these.
You have to learn from what goes wrong in sport that YOU can control. Shane Reck got injured in the warm up, so who was the next man-marker for Mannion? Why did he fail so badly to execute it?
Why are Wexford schools performing so badly? Is hurling offered for PE in every school in the county? Does every school have goal or two with nets? Can schools use the local astro? Can they be got there at lunch? How good are coaches, etc going to schools?
In Wexford I often think every "problem" is met with another problem or someone to knock or get one-up on the problem solver rather than working on a solution.
We need to think about these problems differently. You don't make omlettes without breaking a few eggs.
(MyOhMi the skills of hurling are not learned in 1 or 2 nights in a GAA pitch, they are learned between those 1 or 2 nights and worked on in those nights)
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1341 - 14/05/2025 13:08:23
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Replying To Viking66: "Sadly alot of our clubs, and I'd include some of the biggest clubs in this, aren't doing 1 night Football and 1 night Hurling a week between u8 and u12. They are only doing 1 night period a week. It's not enough." Nowhere near enough, from 1st April to 1st October is 26 weeks. That's max 13 hurling and 13 football training sessions per year. In Kilkenny a player doing hurling only, doing 2 sessions per week, would have 52 sessions over the same period and that's excluding games! Same in football in 'football counties' - keep the dual ethos at underusage BUT they need to train weekly in both and we need to ensure that foundational skills that apply to both, are part of both sessions.
I would also advocate for a clear set of skills that coaches and parents (and players) are aware they need to develop at a grade, so lets say that by the end of u8s they can strike the ball on the ground (properly) and from the hand (maybe just one side), they have a roll and jab lift etc.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 96 - 14/05/2025 13:10:00
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Replying To Viking66: "Hopefully Keith will stay on. He got 3 years, he should do them.
I woke up this morning did the 1st school run and went for the usual walk. Around a quarter of the way in I started to feel very ####ing angry tbh. We have been shafted. It's all very well lads saying we aren't quite good enough under Keith, but most games between top teams are settled by very small margins. Would the narrative last year have been we weren't quite good enough if we had of made a Leinster Final? Well, we would've made a Leinster Final if Kilkenny hadn't of been given a penalty for a foul that was 2 yards outside the area. Now that's not a matter of interpretation, it's a black and white situation according to the rules of the game. A penalty is awarded for a foul in the large rectangle. I remember at the time saying to a friend that that was a black and white situation, exactly the same as whether a goal is a goal or not. I actually said imagine if a referee wasn't sure if a goal was a goal but went ahead and gave a goal anyway. Fast forward a year and look what happened to us this year.......I'm ####ing boiling still tbh...... and I can only imagine Keith feels worse about it......" We had some tough refereeing decisions, particularly the two you mentioned which were outrageous. But nowhere near the level of what happened at club level in the county last year! We can't control incompetent referees so no point wasting energy on them.
Refereeing decisions aside, we lost in KK as we lost control in the middle third at a key point in the game. The likes of Chin and McGovern were completely outplayed, not young lads. Rossi deserved credit that day for changing tactics and when we started to run it we were unlucky not to draw. Dublin, the late collapse, Antrim the no-show - those are the main reasons we didn't progress not that ref in KK. All within our control.
Same as this year. Architects of our own downfall. Listened to Cyril Farrell on the local podcast, Mannion would be man marked at club level in Galway he said so he couldn't believe we didn't put a man on him. Shane Reck was meant to the lads reckoned but got injured - so what?? This is junior B stuff, surely try anybody else on him. Same v Dublin, Foley being roasted early on, even the commentator was saying an obvious switch with Donohue was called for. Ignored until three goals went in and Ryan came in. Whats going on with our Management team?
For his first game of the year, I thought Liam Ryan had a fine game in fairness to the lad. Playing behind a non existent half back line. We never looked like conceding a goal until the game was gone.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 405 - 14/05/2025 13:13:28
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "tearintom I 100% concur with every word of that.
I feel, as an outsider in the county, there is a bit of a woe is me vibe. If this hadn't happened, if that hadn't happened, etc. You can only control the controllables and in sport, **** happens that you can't control. You have to move on quickly in sport and stop looking for outs and excuses because its a ruthless results-based industry.
Like, against us the short puck out was not working and you kept getting turned over. Conceding to our puck out was not working yet it kept happening. Those are coaching calls.
Then there is the players decisions which are never scrutinised like the ones a ref makes.
Look at Limerick, I spend time there with work for many years. For years once I said I was living in Wexford the discussions often changed to Liam Dunne and Gary Kirby. But I remember one day a Limerick man said to me "no matter what happened he got a cut on his finger and we had 14 others v 14 men and still couldn't do it, and we hit Wexford as hard as they did".
Louth were screwed v Meath in that Leinster Final and after years the decided enough and started creating facilities and players to match Meath and Dublin and these.
You have to learn from what goes wrong in sport that YOU can control. Shane Reck got injured in the warm up, so who was the next man-marker for Mannion? Why did he fail so badly to execute it?
Why are Wexford schools performing so badly? Is hurling offered for PE in every school in the county? Does every school have goal or two with nets? Can schools use the local astro? Can they be got there at lunch? How good are coaches, etc going to schools?
In Wexford I often think every "problem" is met with another problem or someone to knock or get one-up on the problem solver rather than working on a solution.
We need to think about these problems differently. You don't make omlettes without breaking a few eggs.
(MyOhMi the skills of hurling are not learned in 1 or 2 nights in a GAA pitch, they are learned between those 1 or 2 nights and worked on in those nights)" Agree with some of that, except the myth that Wexford schools are performing badly. If we had a 2 school hurling model as they do in Kilkenny, where over half their top underage hurlers were all in one school, and over a quarter were in another, those 2 schools would likely be doing alot better for sure. But we don't. What we do have is around 6 or 7 schools who are either competitive with or better than most of the best of the rest of the schools in Kilkenny, bar the big 2, and the the rest of Leinster.
Agree 100% with the fact that top hurlers are hurling every night at home or down the grounds.
As regards #### happening, yes it happened to Louth. In 2010. But it says it all that you would have to go back to 2010 to find an example of something that's happened to us twice in less than 12 months.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15777 - 14/05/2025 13:50:02
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