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Replying To BarneyGrant: "You are either good enough or not. Sport should not be like quotas for "disadvantaged."
Whoever gets relegated is not good enough to even compete on same level as the champions of our greatest sport.
No way to remedy that outside of what teams do ro improve." Yes fair but lets say Kildare stayed up and Wexford or Dublin or Offaly went down, what does that do for the promotion of the game?
We want hurling to thrive and grow, not remain some insular boys club where no outsiders need apply. Its that attitude that has the gap getting bigger, rather than helping these counties to thrive, grow and improve.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 2007 - 20/04/2026 14:44:01
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Yes fair but lets say Kildare stayed up and Wexford or Dublin or Offaly went down, what does that do for the promotion of the game?
We want hurling to thrive and grow, not remain some insular boys club where no outsiders need apply. Its that attitude that has the gap getting bigger, rather than helping these counties to thrive, grow and improve." But sure if that happened it would mean that Wexford weren't putting the work in and Kildare are. It would mean that hurling isnt thriving in Wexford just as it wasn't in Offaly. Relegation actually got the hurling people of Offaly up off their backsides and back to promoting the game. It worked. There is still a lot to do but they are on the right track. As an elderly Offaly lady said triumphantly in O Connor Park last Saturday night( true story)" its a great day. The strait of Horuz is open and Offaly are Back!
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 254 - 20/04/2026 17:49:25
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Maybe we should ask Kildare. Seems Naas spearheaded the recent successes of hurling there by developing the game at underage level. I seem to recall them participating in Kilkenny competions as well. Dublin raised their standards by entering combined colleges teams into Leinster school competitions back in the 90s if memory serves me right. Kildare now have the demographic so good on them getting a lot of the kids interested. Places like North Wickow have the schools populations now. Could be doing a Naas and getting schools & colleges along the east coast to compete together regularly might work. Dublin/Wicklow/Wexford etc
Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1074 - 24/04/2026 11:08:07
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "But sure if that happened it would mean that Wexford weren't putting the work in and Kildare are. It would mean that hurling isnt thriving in Wexford just as it wasn't in Offaly. Relegation actually got the hurling people of Offaly up off their backsides and back to promoting the game. It worked. There is still a lot to do but they are on the right track. As an elderly Offaly lady said triumphantly in O Connor Park last Saturday night( true story)" its a great day. The strait of Horuz is open and Offaly are Back!" And why should those same questions not be asked of Waterford for example? Why is relegation OK for Kildare or Offaly or whoever?
Its not beyond the living memory of nearly every poster on here a time when Limerick, Clare and Waterford were laughing stocks at various stages. Why do they deserve special treatment? ]
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1635 - 24/04/2026 11:18:38
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Replying To Maroonatic: "Maybe we should ask Kildare. Seems Naas spearheaded the recent successes of hurling there by developing the game at underage level. I seem to recall them participating in Kilkenny competions as well. Dublin raised their standards by entering combined colleges teams into Leinster school competitions back in the 90s if memory serves me right. Kildare now have the demographic so good on them getting a lot of the kids interested. Places like North Wickow have the schools populations now. Could be doing a Naas and getting schools & colleges along the east coast to compete together regularly might work. Dublin/Wicklow/Wexford etc" We can't even get some of our own weaker schools together as a combined Wexford schools team. Geography is a problem, as is the fact we have 3 schools competing in Leinster A, and 3 or 4 more in Leinster B. They want to go it alone.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19373 - 24/04/2026 11:25:11
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Donegal have improved in hurling. Tyrone might get promoted to the Ring. There notable improvements below the radar of provincial hurling.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9667 - 24/04/2026 12:18:55
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "And why should those same questions not be asked of Waterford for example? Why is relegation OK for Kildare or Offaly or whoever?
Its not beyond the living memory of nearly every poster on here a time when Limerick, Clare and Waterford were laughing stocks at various stages. Why do they deserve special treatment? "]Now, tbf about this Waterford were in a final 5 years ago. They have also won a league or 2 in the last 10 years. The last time either one of the teams you listed featured in a national division 1 final was 2000. If Waterford were in leinster they would fancy their chances of getting out of it.
Maybe we should have relegation from Munster to Leinster. That would solve the problem.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 254 - 24/04/2026 16:01:58
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Replying To Tadhg2020: " Replying To ExiledInWex: "And why should those same questions not be asked of Waterford for example? Why is relegation OK for Kildare or Offaly or whoever?
Its not beyond the living memory of nearly every poster on here a time when Limerick, Clare and Waterford were laughing stocks at various stages. Why do they deserve special treatment? </div>" Now, tbf about this Waterford were in a final 5 years ago. They have also won a league or 2 in the last 10 years. The last time either one of the teams you listed featured in a national division 1 final was 2000. If Waterford were in leinster they would fancy their chances of getting out of it. Maybe we should have relegation from Munster to Leinster. That would solve the problem."]You are missing the point there. Any Munster county can have a bad year, a few injuries, lads gone travelling, or whatever, and end up last. And then just go again next year. In Leinster if you finish last you get relegated. It doesn't matter who was injured, who was away, or whatever. As regards Waterford the lads who played in 2021 are all now 5 years older and around or past 30. Since 2016 up until last years minors, they only won one or two u20 and minor games in total. In 8 or 9 seasons. They arent as good a team now as they were in 2021. Offaly have reached 2 AI u20 hurling finals and won an u20 AI in the last 3 years. Waterford have barely won a single game at u20 since 2016.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19373 - 24/04/2026 16:58:17
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Tadhg2020: "[quote=ExiledInWex: "And why should those same questions not be asked of Waterford for example? Why is relegation OK for Kildare or Offaly or whoever?
Its not beyond the living memory of nearly every poster on here a time when Limerick, Clare and Waterford were laughing stocks at various stages. Why do they deserve special treatment? </div>" Now, tbf about this Waterford were in a final 5 years ago. They have also won a league or 2 in the last 10 years. The last time either one of the teams you listed featured in a national division 1 final was 2000. If Waterford were in leinster they would fancy their chances of getting out of it. Maybe we should have relegation from Munster to Leinster. That would solve the problem."]You are missing the point there. Any Munster county can have a bad year, a few injuries, lads gone travelling, or whatever, and end up last. And then just go again next year. In Leinster if you finish last you get relegated. It doesn't matter who was injured, who was away, or whatever. As regards Waterford the lads who played in 2021 are all now 5 years older and around or past 30. Since 2016 up until last years minors, they only won one or two u20 and minor games in total. In 8 or 9 seasons. They arent as good a team now as they were in 2021. Offaly have reached 2 AI u20 hurling finals and won an u20 AI in the last 3 years. Waterford have barely won a single game at u20 since 2016."]I think you are missing my point. The worst team in Munster is better that the bottom 2(at least) in Leinster. Thats just a fact. Thats not our fault. Thats on the Leinster counties and board. Ye took an extra team in from the lower competition. Now you can rotate that team in and out of your competition.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 254 - 24/04/2026 22:07:30
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#Tadhg2020
We got asked to take an extra team in by Croke Park to help middle tier counties make the step up. Having an extra one in doesn't suit any county here except the extra county. If we just had 5 counties in Leinster and no relegation like Munster have, that would suit the 5 counties in it better. The competitiveness would gradually rise as standards would be higher, and it would help our teams that made the AI series do better in it as they would have 1 game less, and more rest between games.
But what would that do for the counties ranked 11th or lower?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19373 - 25/04/2026 08:52:21
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Replying To Viking66: "#Tadhg2020
We got asked to take an extra team in by Croke Park to help middle tier counties make the step up. Having an extra one in doesn't suit any county here except the extra county. If we just had 5 counties in Leinster and no relegation like Munster have, that would suit the 5 counties in it better. The competitiveness would gradually rise as standards would be higher, and it would help our teams that made the AI series do better in it as they would have 1 game less, and more rest between games.
But what would that do for the counties ranked 11th or lower?" We have covered this already a few weeks ago.
The reality is that the weakest teams are now in leinster. Thats just a fact. It therefore is ridiculous to suggest that the bottom team in Munster be relegated to the Joe McDonagh Cup. 650 fewer people watched the two teams that most, including me, ranked as the bottom two in munster play each other than watched all 3 leinster championship games last weekend. That is the difference in the quality of the product on offer right there. Leinster Hurling fans wont pay , in large numbers, to watch whats on offer. Munster Hurling fans will. I understand why yoi might want to damage our product but really you should focus on improving yours.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 254 - 25/04/2026 11:55:49
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "We have covered this already a few weeks ago.
The reality is that the weakest teams are now in leinster. Thats just a fact. It therefore is ridiculous to suggest that the bottom team in Munster be relegated to the Joe McDonagh Cup. 650 fewer people watched the two teams that most, including me, ranked as the bottom two in munster play each other than watched all 3 leinster championship games last weekend. That is the difference in the quality of the product on offer right there. Leinster Hurling fans wont pay , in large numbers, to watch whats on offer. Munster Hurling fans will. I understand why yoi might want to damage our product but really you should focus on improving yours." I agree with you but a playoff between the two bottom teams in Munster and leinster would be fair.
Then you have the same rules for both Munster and Leinster.
Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 187 - 25/04/2026 13:09:28
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Currently the Joe Mac, Ring, Rackard and Meagher have 6 teams each, 4 tiers of 6. I was admittedly a bit oblivious to life below the Joe Mac apart from headline moments.
After 3 rounds of the Ring so far - I think there should be a discussion about 3 tiers of 8. 2 groups of 4. Top 2 semi finals. Bottom teams in relegation final.
As there would be no relegation from the 3rd tier of 8, 3rd and 4th could go into Meagher semi finals to retain the Meagher Cup in some form.
With groups of 4, there would just have to be an agreeable way that if you have 2 home group games in Year A, you'll have 1 home group game in Year B.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9667 - 25/04/2026 16:40:32
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Replying To Newyorkkat: "I agree with you but a playoff between the two bottom teams in Munster and leinster would be fair.
Then you have the same rules for both Munster and Leinster." I see where you are coming from but we didnt add a weaker team to our championship. If both championships were exactly the same, which they were originally and intended to be, I would be more inclined to agree to it. As they are not the same they are not equal.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 254 - 25/04/2026 17:02:41
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I see where you are coming from but we didnt add a weaker team to our championship. If both championships were exactly the same, which they were originally and intended to be, I would be more inclined to agree to it. As they are not the same they are not equal." That would have to mean 5th in Munster accepting direct relegation if the Joe Mac winner came from Munster.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9667 - 26/04/2026 11:52:46
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "We have covered this already a few weeks ago.
The reality is that the weakest teams are now in leinster. Thats just a fact. It therefore is ridiculous to suggest that the bottom team in Munster be relegated to the Joe McDonagh Cup. 650 fewer people watched the two teams that most, including me, ranked as the bottom two in munster play each other than watched all 3 leinster championship games last weekend. That is the difference in the quality of the product on offer right there. Leinster Hurling fans wont pay , in large numbers, to watch whats on offer. Munster Hurling fans will. I understand why yoi might want to damage our product but really you should focus on improving yours." I dont want to damage any products. Ive always enjoyed the Munster Championship. Have done since it was knockout.
Attendance isnt down to quality of product. There are plenty of bandwaggoners following all the Munster counties at the minute and their only interest in hurling is seeing their county winning. Alot of them would think a sweeper is what the missus or mammy cleans the kitchen floor with.
The problem with Leinster counties attendances is firstly that they arent competitive at the minute. Thats up to all of us over here to change. Secondly most of the Leinster counties have small hurling populations compared to the Munster counties, or very small populations altogether. Kilkenny and Offaly put together have smaller populations than most of the Munster counties have by themselves. Dublin is a real Soccer and Football place, while we would have plenty of Soccer and Footbsll people who have no interest in hurling also. I do agree that the main problem with our support currently is down to us not really being competitive though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19373 - 26/04/2026 12:00:33
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Replying To Viking66: "I dont want to damage any products. Ive always enjoyed the Munster Championship. Have done since it was knockout.
Attendance isnt down to quality of product. There are plenty of bandwaggoners following all the Munster counties at the minute and their only interest in hurling is seeing their county winning. Alot of them would think a sweeper is what the missus or mammy cleans the kitchen floor with.
The problem with Leinster counties attendances is firstly that they arent competitive at the minute. Thats up to all of us over here to change. Secondly most of the Leinster counties have small hurling populations compared to the Munster counties, or very small populations altogether. Kilkenny and Offaly put together have smaller populations than most of the Munster counties have by themselves. Dublin is a real Soccer and Football place, while we would have plenty of Soccer and Footbsll people who have no interest in hurling also. I do agree that the main problem with our support currently is down to us not really being competitive though." So attendance isnt down to the quality of the product but Munster hurling is full of band wagoners atm? Isn't that indicative of the quality on offer. Bandwagoners dont follow poor quality performance. They follow quality and success. Only one team can win munster but every teams support is up at capacity.
You say that Leinster team fans aren't going because their teams are bot competitive? Doesn't that affect the quality on offer? Of course it does. The fans aren't dumb. If they think a good game of hurling is on offer and that their team might win they will travel and pay to attend. If they dont they wont. They aren't in Leinsterr and they are in Munster. That tells you everything you need to know about whats on offer. There wont be any relegation from Munster while this remains the case and there are 6 teams in leinster.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 254 - 26/04/2026 16:22:45
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "So attendance isnt down to the quality of the product but Munster hurling is full of band wagoners atm? Isn't that indicative of the quality on offer. Bandwagoners dont follow poor quality performance. They follow quality and success. Only one team can win munster but every teams support is up at capacity.
You say that Leinster team fans aren't going because their teams are bot competitive? Doesn't that affect the quality on offer? Of course it does. The fans aren't dumb. If they think a good game of hurling is on offer and that their team might win they will travel and pay to attend. If they dont they wont. They aren't in Leinsterr and they are in Munster. That tells you everything you need to know about whats on offer. There wont be any relegation from Munster while this remains the case and there are 6 teams in leinster." No matter how poor a Munster team is there wont be relegation. Or how poorly their games are attended.
As poor as Wexford and Kilkenny are currently there were more in Nowlan Park yesterday than in Walsh Park last year when Clare played Waterford.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19373 - 26/04/2026 16:50:41
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Replying To Viking66: "No matter how poor a Munster team is there wont be relegation. Or how poorly their games are attended.
As poor as Wexford and Kilkenny are currently there were more in Nowlan Park yesterday than in Walsh Park last year when Clare played Waterford." Jaysus you are clutching at straws now. Walsh Park takes somewhere between 11 and 13k to fill. Im not sure where it is in its redevelopment atm but it will be 13k when finished I believe. If it was on in Thurles it would have 25k plus and you know that.
As for relegation, id say you are correct while 6 teams remain in the leinster championship.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 254 - 26/04/2026 17:26:25
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