National Forum

A Leinster Championship Without Dublin

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To BarneyGrant:  "There's no shortage of money in your county. Land prices etc prove that. And if you want to go down the road of cash winning stuff - or not winning stuff :-) - then there have been no equals of the "effort" and "incentive" thrown into the Lilies in 90s from lads normally used to shelling out for Derby and Oaks winners.

Fact is you don't really have a tradition. Kildare is probably the most anglicised county in Ireland and had contributed almost nothing over the centuries to national movement. Not since Silken Thomas and he had only Dubs to support him in end up :--)

Was there a stone thrown at the Tans?"
We're lovers not fighters in Kildare Barney ;)

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1997 - 01/05/2024 14:55:30    2542270

Link

If Dublin had home advantage in either the Ulster or Connaught Championships I think they would kill both the Ulster and Connaught Championships like they have done in Leinster.
They may do the same in Munster but with Kerry's tradition Kerry may be able to stay competitive and win some.

Even without home advantage Dublin would still win most championships which would still dilute the allure of these championships to a big extent.

2 things-
1. People often talk about the other strong teams as if Dublin and other strong teams are equivalent, they are not, they are much better than the other teams.
A few top teams could put it up to Dublin on a given day in a serious championship game.
But these same teams could be caught out by lesser teams, Dublin would never be caught out by lesser teams.
2. Unlike in other provinces because the GAA built Croke Park as an 80,000 stadium the GAA makes an effort to justify it Dublin basically always play there and every game possible in Leinster is sent there. No effort has been made to develop stadiums in Leinster equivalent to Killarney of Clones.

Say the Ulster Championship.
People talk about the atmosphere around this.
As Dublin started winning nearly every year the atmosphere would start to wane.
Say the hype of Tyrone playing against Donegal in Clones would fade a bit if they knew the winner would face a trip to Croke Park to face Dublin.

As provincial championship chances faded would the motivation of ulster county players (& supporters attending) , whose chance of winning something each year was hugely reduced remain as high, probably not and this would help standards dropping in the counties outside of Dublin.

That's my theory anyway, feel free to say I'm wrong.

The provincials are not doing Meath any good but if I was from a province outside Leinster I'd be slow to get rid of these championships completely, if Dublin are going to win most All Irelands having a chance of winning provincials is good motivation for counties outside of Leinster.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1380 - 01/05/2024 18:20:31    2542317

Link

Replying To bdbuddah:  "If Dublin had home advantage in either the Ulster or Connaught Championships I think they would kill both the Ulster and Connaught Championships like they have done in Leinster.
They may do the same in Munster but with Kerry's tradition Kerry may be able to stay competitive and win some.

Even without home advantage Dublin would still win most championships which would still dilute the allure of these championships to a big extent.

2 things-
1. People often talk about the other strong teams as if Dublin and other strong teams are equivalent, they are not, they are much better than the other teams.
A few top teams could put it up to Dublin on a given day in a serious championship game.
But these same teams could be caught out by lesser teams, Dublin would never be caught out by lesser teams.
2. Unlike in other provinces because the GAA built Croke Park as an 80,000 stadium the GAA makes an effort to justify it Dublin basically always play there and every game possible in Leinster is sent there. No effort has been made to develop stadiums in Leinster equivalent to Killarney of Clones.

Say the Ulster Championship.
People talk about the atmosphere around this.
As Dublin started winning nearly every year the atmosphere would start to wane.
Say the hype of Tyrone playing against Donegal in Clones would fade a bit if they knew the winner would face a trip to Croke Park to face Dublin.

As provincial championship chances faded would the motivation of ulster county players (& supporters attending) , whose chance of winning something each year was hugely reduced remain as high, probably not and this would help standards dropping in the counties outside of Dublin.

That's my theory anyway, feel free to say I'm wrong.

The provincials are not doing Meath any good but if I was from a province outside Leinster I'd be slow to get rid of these championships completely, if Dublin are going to win most All Irelands having a chance of winning provincials is good motivation for counties outside of Leinster."
Correct bdbuddah. Thats why I am advocating putting Dublin away from home into Munster where no stadium will be too small for their away games and let the Leinster teams get a break from the bruising father.

Just maybe a few years away would allow the likes of Meath, Kildare and Louth to pick themselves off the floor and give them confidence. Right now they are like a plant that cannot bloom as a giant tree is blocking out their sunlight and soaking up the water.

Lots of good points on this thread. At the end of the day, professionalism has killed the competitiveness of it. Hopefully Jarlath Burns finds a way to bring in his programme of licensing and find a way to ban Dublin from Leinster and maybe Kerry from Munster for some minor infraction so the whole country can enjoy their provinces again.

Either way, we need to find a way to ban the excess backroom teams, excesss preparations and level the playing fields between the halfs and the half nots. Do that and maybe just maybe, the juggernaut may stumble now and again.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 282 - 01/05/2024 19:16:56    2542329

Link

Replying To shaggykev:  "Correct bdbuddah. Thats why I am advocating putting Dublin away from home into Munster where no stadium will be too small for their away games and let the Leinster teams get a break from the bruising father.

Just maybe a few years away would allow the likes of Meath, Kildare and Louth to pick themselves off the floor and give them confidence. Right now they are like a plant that cannot bloom as a giant tree is blocking out their sunlight and soaking up the water.

Lots of good points on this thread. At the end of the day, professionalism has killed the competitiveness of it. Hopefully Jarlath Burns finds a way to bring in his programme of licensing and find a way to ban Dublin from Leinster and maybe Kerry from Munster for some minor infraction so the whole country can enjoy their provinces again.

Either way, we need to find a way to ban the excess backroom teams, excesss preparations and level the playing fields between the halfs and the half nots. Do that and maybe just maybe, the juggernaut may stumble now and again."
Ban any County with more than 2 All Irelands!!

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1697 - 01/05/2024 23:29:07    2542362

Link

Replying To shaggykev:  "Correct bdbuddah. Thats why I am advocating putting Dublin away from home into Munster where no stadium will be too small for their away games and let the Leinster teams get a break from the bruising father.

Just maybe a few years away would allow the likes of Meath, Kildare and Louth to pick themselves off the floor and give them confidence. Right now they are like a plant that cannot bloom as a giant tree is blocking out their sunlight and soaking up the water.

Lots of good points on this thread. At the end of the day, professionalism has killed the competitiveness of it. Hopefully Jarlath Burns finds a way to bring in his programme of licensing and find a way to ban Dublin from Leinster and maybe Kerry from Munster for some minor infraction so the whole country can enjoy their provinces again.

Either way, we need to find a way to ban the excess backroom teams, excesss preparations and level the playing fields between the halfs and the half nots. Do that and maybe just maybe, the juggernaut may stumble now and again."
I understand where your coming from but something about it doesn't feel right.
Winning a Leinster title knowing Dublin have been removed from competition just because they are too good would take away from winning it.

The GAA might have a general restructure of all competitions but I can't see them doing something specific just for Leinster counties.

Maybe its the hope that kills you but I'd still hope that in the future Meath might get back to being somewhat competitive again against Dublin. Because of the tradition and population growth if any county in Leinster is going to be any way competitive with it most likely will be Meath (followed by Kildare who have had bigger population growth than us).

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1380 - 02/05/2024 15:09:18    2542487

Link

Replying To bdbuddah:  "I understand where your coming from but something about it doesn't feel right.
Winning a Leinster title knowing Dublin have been removed from competition just because they are too good would take away from winning it.

The GAA might have a general restructure of all competitions but I can't see them doing something specific just for Leinster counties.

Maybe its the hope that kills you but I'd still hope that in the future Meath might get back to being somewhat competitive again against Dublin. Because of the tradition and population growth if any county in Leinster is going to be any way competitive with it most likely will be Meath (followed by Kildare who have had bigger population growth than us)."
The problem is most of the population growth has been driven not by natural births of Meath and Kildare people but by Dubs and other non GAA communities so it's not generating enough fresh talent.

It's also killing the culture of Meath GAA. I doubt you'd have seen many brave heads rocking the Dublin jersey on a normal day around Navan in 80s and 90s. The hate has been bred out of ye and whilst it's good for harmony, it ain't for driving standards to match your enemy.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 282 - 02/05/2024 15:49:55    2542493

Link

Replying To shaggykev:  "The problem is most of the population growth has been driven not by natural births of Meath and Kildare people but by Dubs and other non GAA communities so it's not generating enough fresh talent.

It's also killing the culture of Meath GAA. I doubt you'd have seen many brave heads rocking the Dublin jersey on a normal day around Navan in 80s and 90s. The hate has been bred out of ye and whilst it's good for harmony, it ain't for driving standards to match your enemy."
Your right in that Dubs moving down to Meath is definitely changing the culture in terms of sport in Meath (and generally).
When I was growing up Meath was a rural county dominated by farming.
Now some former villages are big towns with a lot of Dubs (and some other counties) in them.

Years ago nearly all people here were mad GAA people, now if you talk to parents you find the GAA has competition from soccer.
A lot of the Dublin people who have moved in are not tradational GAA people and have brought soccer with them to traditionally GAA areas.

This is a challenge for Meath GAA but there are opportunities also, some clubs in areas which years ago were very rural and have seen huge population growth in last 20 years, the likes of Ratoath have become very strong.

Hopefully at some stage we can make the population increase work for the county team.

The comment about Meath people not hating Dublin as much anymore is funny in that I'd say native Meath people have a more dislike for Dublin now than when we were competive with them as years ago.
Years ago there wasn't many of them living here back then, the rivalary back then was tense at times but great crack.
Nowadays there is nothing more sickening for a native Meath person than hearing a kid brought up in Meath thinking of himself as a Dub.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1380 - 02/05/2024 20:27:29    2542537

Link