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Football Format Changes Discussion

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Did Wicklow's TC win kill off any chance of a third tier - more value in beating a Down to TC win, than winning a Tier 3 against a bottom 12 team?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3499 - 12/07/2026 15:19:22    2685400

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Replying To omahant:  "Did Wicklow's TC win kill off any chance of a third tier - more value in beating a Down to TC win, than winning a Tier 3 against a bottom 12 team?"
Probably but im reading over on the WM football thread that it is after making it very hard for the current leinster champions to qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup next season. Yet another anomaly in the system.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 757 - 12/07/2026 17:46:31    2685422

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Replying To omahant:  "Did Wicklow's TC win kill off any chance of a third tier - more value in beating a Down to TC win, than winning a Tier 3 against a bottom 12 team?"
Hopefully it has as never wanted or need a 3rd tier.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 4055 - 12/07/2026 18:48:56    2685442

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Probably but im reading over on the WM football thread that it is after making it very hard for the current leinster champions to qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup next season. Yet another anomaly in the system."
Apart from the TC winner the other 15 are decided by the current year's standings.

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 785 - 12/07/2026 19:06:20    2685446

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It would be some craic if Wexford and Down stayed up in div 2, with Louth and Dublin getting relegated to div 3.

You could have a situation where the Leinster champions and 2 all Ireland semi finalista dont get back into the sam maguire competition next year.

Que uproar

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 2002 - 12/07/2026 22:14:01    2685481

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Probably but im reading over on the WM football thread that it is after making it very hard for the current leinster champions to qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup next season. Yet another anomaly in the system."
Westmeath missed out on promotion to D2. Under the rules they have to hope winning D3 is enough or else get back to a Leinster final. Them's the rules.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10005 - 13/07/2026 03:27:36    2685516

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "It would be some craic if Wexford and Down stayed up in div 2, with Louth and Dublin getting relegated to div 3.

You could have a situation where the Leinster champions and 2 all Ireland semi finalista dont get back into the sam maguire competition next year.

Que uproar"
I suppose the fix then is to have automatic qualification of prior year AIC Last 12 & TC Champ, before adding current year Prov Champs (<4, most likely), followed by applying current league ranking to top up to Sam 16.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3499 - 13/07/2026 11:22:46    2685557

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Westmeath missed out on promotion to D2. Under the rules they have to hope winning D3 is enough or else get back to a Leinster final. Them's the rules."
But you agree, them's the AWFUL rules!

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3499 - 13/07/2026 11:24:11    2685559

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Replying To omahant:  "But you agree, them's the AWFUL rules!"
There was talk about whether there should be a tier 3 in football. Division 4 counties were adamant that they did not want a glorified Division 4 cup. Wicklow now will be the north start for all in Division 4.

Those suggesting a tier 3 in football were saying to look at hurling. Wicklow have flipped the script! Hurling should look at football's Tailteann and expand the Joe Mac to 2 groups of 5.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10005 - 13/07/2026 13:13:57    2685584

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There was talk about whether there should be a tier 3 in football. Division 4 counties were adamant that they did not want a glorified Division 4 cup. Wicklow now will be the north start for all in Division 4.

Those suggesting a tier 3 in football were saying to look at hurling. Wicklow have flipped the script! Hurling should look at football's Tailteann and expand the Joe Mac to 2 groups of 5."
No.

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 785 - 13/07/2026 13:41:27    2685589

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There was talk about whether there should be a tier 3 in football. Division 4 counties were adamant that they did not want a glorified Division 4 cup. Wicklow now will be the north start for all in Division 4.

Those suggesting a tier 3 in football were saying to look at hurling. Wicklow have flipped the script! Hurling should look at football's Tailteann and expand the Joe Mac to 2 groups of 5."
Gap is far wider in Hurling than football.

Wicklow pushed Dublin all the way and Dublin pushed Kerry all the way yesterday.

Down on their good day was able to beat Donegal the same Donegal who beat Kerry three times this year

You wouldn't see that in Hurling.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 4439 - 13/07/2026 14:00:55    2685599

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There was talk about whether there should be a tier 3 in football. Division 4 counties were adamant that they did not want a glorified Division 4 cup. Wicklow now will be the north start for all in Division 4.

Those suggesting a tier 3 in football were saying to look at hurling. Wicklow have flipped the script! Hurling should look at football's Tailteann and expand the Joe Mac to 2 groups of 5."
In hurling, isn't there too much of a standard gap between Joe Mc & Ring teams, and separately, between teams in Rackard & Meagher ?

Ideally, it would be great to merge each of those paired competitions - to three tiers - but how long before it's feasible?

I'm off topic - I know.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3499 - 14/07/2026 00:46:13    2685690

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There was talk about whether there should be a tier 3 in football. Division 4 counties were adamant that they did not want a glorified Division 4 cup. Wicklow now will be the north start for all in Division 4.

Those suggesting a tier 3 in football were saying to look at hurling. Wicklow have flipped the script! Hurling should look at football's Tailteann and expand the Joe Mac to 2 groups of 5."
And....maybe a bottom 12 TC (tier 3) is the way to go....plus a new mid 8 (tier 2).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3499 - 14/07/2026 00:49:27    2685691

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Replying To The_analyser:  "Gap is far wider in Hurling than football.

Wicklow pushed Dublin all the way and Dublin pushed Kerry all the way yesterday.

Down on their good day was able to beat Donegal the same Donegal who beat Kerry three times this year

You wouldn't see that in Hurling."
I get what your saying if Donegal and Roscommon have concerns about an expanded Joe Mac being a step too far.

There should at least be hurling tiers of 8 with semi finals. It is supposed to be championship after all. League is there for incremental improvement.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10005 - 14/07/2026 04:50:29    2685693

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I get what your saying if Donegal and Roscommon have concerns about an expanded Joe Mac being a step too far.

There should at least be hurling tiers of 8 with semi finals. It is supposed to be championship after all. League is there for incremental improvement."
Hurling for the non Liam teams is fine as it is.
Any push by Counties for tweaks to Sam?
Or whispers from HQ?

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 785 - 14/07/2026 11:49:55    2685718

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Replying To omahant:  "But you agree, them's the AWFUL rules!"
The rules are bad. The structure is also an issue.

So we've league of 4 divisions of 8, you'd think it'd make sense to have championship as 2 tiers of 16 but in reality it's terrible because it's too easy for their to be no room for the lower tier teams to qualify through the league.

This is where Legends qualifier idea makes sense because it's probably too easy to qualify from division 2 yet there's a very low chance of qualifying from division 3, particularly if the Tailteann champion is not in division 2.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4731 - 15/07/2026 12:04:03    2685839

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The rules are bad. The structure is also an issue.

So we've league of 4 divisions of 8, you'd think it'd make sense to have championship as 2 tiers of 16 but in reality it's terrible because it's too easy for their to be no room for the lower tier teams to qualify through the league.

This is where Legends qualifier idea makes sense because it's probably too easy to qualify from division 2 yet there's a very low chance of qualifying from division 3, particularly if the Tailteann champion is not in division 2."
The top 6 in Division 1 and the Division 2 winner are the only 7 truly earning qualification via the league. Anyone outside the top 7 not making their provincial final are depending on other results. So far finishing in the top 5 of Division 2 has always been sufficient. There's probably always a reason possibility of at least 2 lower league ranked counties making their provincial final under the current agreed structures. Westmeath will be an inspiration for others to look to cause a few shocks!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10005 - 15/07/2026 13:18:31    2685852

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The rules are bad. The structure is also an issue.

So we've league of 4 divisions of 8, you'd think it'd make sense to have championship as 2 tiers of 16 but in reality it's terrible because it's too easy for their to be no room for the lower tier teams to qualify through the league.

This is where Legends qualifier idea makes sense because it's probably too easy to qualify from division 2 yet there's a very low chance of qualifying from division 3, particularly if the Tailteann champion is not in division 2."
Yup. Another solution could be:

- Current Sam 16 & TC 16
- Seed Rds 1 & 2A/2B
- Start with 4 pots of 4 in each
- Rd 1 = 1v4 & 2v3
- Rd 2B losers relegated to TC for next year
- TC SF 4 promoted to Sam for next year

League positions no longer relevant - no more 'gymnastics' with 'out-of-control' Prov results elsewhere.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3499 - 15/07/2026 18:00:16    2685881

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The rules are bad. The structure is also an issue.

So we've league of 4 divisions of 8, you'd think it'd make sense to have championship as 2 tiers of 16 but in reality it's terrible because it's too easy for their to be no room for the lower tier teams to qualify through the league.

This is where Legends qualifier idea makes sense because it's probably too easy to qualify from division 2 yet there's a very low chance of qualifying from division 3, particularly if the Tailteann champion is not in division 2."
Yup. Another solution could be:

- Current Sam 16 & TC 16
- Seed Rds 1 & 2A/2B
- Start with 4 pots of 4 in each
- Rd 1 = 1v4 & 2v3
- Rd 2B losers relegated to TC for next year
- TC SF 4 promoted to Sam for next year

League positions no longer relevant - no more 'gymnastics' with 'out-of-control' Prov results elsewhere.

OR,
- Rd 2B losers to Sam 'Relegation Finals' (RFs)
- 2 RF losers to TC for next year
- TC Finalists promoted to Sam for next year

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3499 - 15/07/2026 18:05:18    2685883

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Replying To omahant:  "Yup. Another solution could be:

- Current Sam 16 & TC 16
- Seed Rds 1 & 2A/2B
- Start with 4 pots of 4 in each
- Rd 1 = 1v4 & 2v3
- Rd 2B losers relegated to TC for next year
- TC SF 4 promoted to Sam for next year

League positions no longer relevant - no more 'gymnastics' with 'out-of-control' Prov results elsewhere.

OR,
- Rd 2B losers to Sam 'Relegation Finals' (RFs)
- 2 RF losers to TC for next year
- TC Finalists promoted to Sam for next year"
The wildcard winners from league qualification were Louth, Derry, Tyrone and Cavan. They finished outside the top 7 in the league, missed out on their provincial finals and benefitted from results elsewhere ensuring their qualification.
A province like Ulster is being rewarded with more league qualifiers. Seems to address the provincial imbalance somewhat. It is a bit more tricky for lower league counties in Ulster and Leinster to make their finals. Westmeath achieved it this year though. There are going to be winners and losers in any format. As the league is the agreed qualification process, everyone has to focus on getting into the top 5 in Division 2 at least.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10005 - 16/07/2026 05:55:56    2685905

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