National Forum

Great Hurling Rivalries - Cork Versus Limerick

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "Fair play to both Kilkenny teams. They were a class above. I don't think fight and bottle had much to do with it. Both Cork teams were simply up against much better opposition.
Cork's teams were from the 3rd and 5th tier of their championships. Kilkenny's were from the 2nd and 3rd.
It was Kilkenny's 13th team against Cork's 25th in the intermediate final, and Kilkenny's 25th against Cork's 50th in the junior final (as St. Catherine's actually lost their junior county final).
It's not Kilkenny's issue, as they're a smaller county numbers wise, but it does lead to a disparity at All-Ireland club level at times."
Yes, but is it not still the case that the standard is just higher anyway? As it is in your own county.

Even Donal O'Grady has several times referred to club standard in Cork having declined significantly, which is reflected in poor results since Newtown were in their prime, and they were considered upstarts among the older city and east county clubs!

It is true that having much bigger numbers in senior dilutes the standard, but solution is surely then to restrict numbers?

No coincidence that club standard in Dublin for example in both games has improved greatly since abandoning the ludicrous 32 county championship that used to be there.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2591 - 14/01/2024 10:30:43    2520088

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Yes, but is it not still the case that the standard is just higher anyway? As it is in your own county.

Even Donal O'Grady has several times referred to club standard in Cork having declined significantly, which is reflected in poor results since Newtown were in their prime, and they were considered upstarts among the older city and east county clubs!

It is true that having much bigger numbers in senior dilutes the standard, but solution is surely then to restrict numbers?

No coincidence that club standard in Dublin for example in both games has improved greatly since abandoning the ludicrous 32 county championship that used to be there."
Definitely a renaming of their championships would help, which would allow their actual 2nd tier winners to compete at All-Ireland intermediate level, and their 3rd tier winners to play junior.
Right now they have Premier Senior, Senior A Premier Intermediate, Intermediate A, Premier Junior etc.
We have something similar in Galway at senior level, which prevents our 2nd tier winners from representing us at provincial and All-Ireland intermediate level.
I agree with your general point about Cork club hurling at the highest level. It's a good while since their senior winners have had any real impact outside of the county.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2053 - 14/01/2024 12:39:58    2520101

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Limerick V Cork sold the 3,000 tickets out for Munster league in a hour this morning , reckon it will be the first of a number of big matchs between these two counties this year .

OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 678 - 15/01/2024 15:35:44    2520324

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Really looking forward to my visit to Super-Valu park, by the banks of the Lee, to watch age old rivals Limerick and Cork battle it out in the Munster Championship..

Just... doesn't have the same ring to it

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1067 - 16/01/2024 12:35:24    2520435

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Replying To skillet:  "Really looking forward to my visit to Super-Valu park, by the banks of the Lee, to watch age old rivals Limerick and Cork battle it out in the Munster Championship..

Just... doesn't have the same ring to it"
Just say "da park" and everyone will know what you mean. Páirc Uí Rinn is still the Lodge to a lot of people. Cork Hibs played there in 1970's as Flower Lodge.

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 217 - 24/01/2024 10:39:48    2521856

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Replying To St.Mologga:  "Sound post, Limerick have had the whip hand on us since 2018, that all Ireland semi-final was a crossroads match for both teams.

The Treaty Men went onto find the Promised Land that year & now draw richly from the wells of success.

While here in The Rebel County we wander in the wilderness, keeping a watchful eye for a messenger with glad tidings."
So true and such fine margins, it was one of the greatest games I've ever attended. That game so easily could have swung either way. That was peak Cork and had they got over us they would have won the AI, i don't think they have returned to that consistent standard seen that day since. Limerick went on and got better and better while Cork seemed to trend the other direction. Things can potentially be a lot better for them if the young fellas step up. Lack of a quality full back and over reliance on the great Hoggie seems to be their achilles heel but this year could well see their fortunes turn around.
The U21 Munster final win way back in 2011 also stands out for me and was an epic contest in front of a big crowd that went to extra time and one of the first real signs to the masses that something was brewing in Limerick and the tides were turning. Aidan Walsh was the best player on the field that evening and scored 8 points from play in an immense display.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 390 - 24/01/2024 12:21:45    2521882

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Replying To Viking66:  "Not from Munster myself but all the Cork hurling people I know see Tipp as their rivals, and Limerick people I know see Tipp or Clare as their rivals, although maybe that might be different in Mitchelstown or Kilmallock."
Ÿa to me it would be tipp first clare second in rivalries,never saw Cork as a rival.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 24/01/2024 13:53:03    2521902

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "So true and such fine margins, it was one of the greatest games I've ever attended. That game so easily could have swung either way. That was peak Cork and had they got over us they would have won the AI, i don't think they have returned to that consistent standard seen that day since. Limerick went on and got better and better while Cork seemed to trend the other direction. Things can potentially be a lot better for them if the young fellas step up. Lack of a quality full back and over reliance on the great Hoggie seems to be their achilles heel but this year could well see their fortunes turn around.
The U21 Munster final win way back in 2011 also stands out for me and was an epic contest in front of a big crowd that went to extra time and one of the first real signs to the masses that something was brewing in Limerick and the tides were turning. Aidan Walsh was the best player on the field that evening and scored 8 points from play in an immense display."
Limerick up to that point were market leaders in hard luck stories, Henry Martin & that publication of "Unlimited Heartbreak" seemed to really bring those bad days to light.

What ever good fortune & success Limerick are now enjoying came off the back of very desolate days when it seemed the God's did not look kindly on the Treaty county.

The wheel always turns & new teams will come to the fore, but Limerick will never have to endure as a long wait for the McCarthy Cup again.

St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 109 - 24/01/2024 16:05:18    2521920

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Replying To St.Mologga:  "Limerick up to that point were market leaders in hard luck stories, Henry Martin & that publication of "Unlimited Heartbreak" seemed to really bring those bad days to light.

What ever good fortune & success Limerick are now enjoying came off the back of very desolate days when it seemed the God's did not look kindly on the Treaty county.

The wheel always turns & new teams will come to the fore, but Limerick will never have to endure as a long wait for the McCarthy Cup again."
I agree the wheel always turns and lots of people thought after 1973 that "it wouldn't be 33 years again" and look what happened.

We are enjoying these days as long as they last, in the knowledge that the wheel will turn again and I think Cork might just be best placed team to turn it whenever that time comes.

LimerickandProud (Limerick) - Posts: 56 - 24/01/2024 16:45:03    2521927

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Replying To LimerickandProud:  "I agree the wheel always turns and lots of people thought after 1973 that "it wouldn't be 33 years again" and look what happened.

We are enjoying these days as long as they last, in the knowledge that the wheel will turn again and I think Cork might just be best placed team to turn it whenever that time comes."
The immediate to threat to Limerick at present is Clare, the Men from the Banner county have gone toe to toe with Limerick & the clashes have been tremendous viewing.
I expect for 2024 more of the same, the skill & daring from both sides, under such massive pressure is a pleasure to watch.

St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 109 - 25/01/2024 00:34:25    2521974

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Replying To St.Mologga:  "The immediate to threat to Limerick at present is Clare, the Men from the Banner county have gone toe to toe with Limerick & the clashes have been tremendous viewing.
I expect for 2024 more of the same, the skill & daring from both sides, under such massive pressure is a pleasure to watch."
Biggest threat to Limerick definitely and they could well take us down this year but what about everyone else, they move heaven and earth to beat Limerick and its like a red rag to a bull but can they get to that level against everyone else and continue to trend upwards as they get closer to the prize, that is still the big hurdle for them.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 390 - 25/01/2024 14:29:42    2522038

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Replying To St.Mologga:  "The immediate to threat to Limerick at present is Clare, the Men from the Banner county have gone toe to toe with Limerick & the clashes have been tremendous viewing.
I expect for 2024 more of the same, the skill & daring from both sides, under such massive pressure is a pleasure to watch."
maybe in munster...... clares best chance of winning the allireland is if limerick dont make it out of munster.......limerick will devour clare in croke park.

munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 25/01/2024 14:36:36    2522040

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Replying To munsterchamps:  "maybe in munster...... clares best chance of winning the allireland is if limerick dont make it out of munster.......limerick will devour clare in croke park."
Limerick & Clare will get out of Munster, Tipperary, Waterford & ourselves will be fighting for 3rd place.

St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 109 - 25/01/2024 15:38:57    2522056

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "Biggest threat to Limerick definitely and they could well take us down this year but what about everyone else, they move heaven and earth to beat Limerick and its like a red rag to a bull but can they get to that level against everyone else and continue to trend upwards as they get closer to the prize, that is still the big hurdle for them."
Fair point, I assume this is an issue the Clare backroom team will have looked into over the winter, as you say they bring a massive energy & physical edge to the games with Limerick.

St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 109 - 25/01/2024 15:52:00    2522059

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Replying To St.Mologga:  "Limerick & Clare will get out of Munster, Tipperary, Waterford & ourselves will be fighting for 3rd place."
Think you will make up the top 3 with Limerick and Clare.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12130 - 25/01/2024 18:53:23    2522083

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Replying To St.Mologga:  "Limerick & Clare will get out of Munster, Tipperary, Waterford & ourselves will be fighting for 3rd place."
Personally think Limerick are certs, think Waterford are under pressure with players travelling or stepping back and nothing between Clare, Cork and Tipp for the 2 spots after Limerick.

Last game Tipp and Clare play in Thurles could see that been a winner takes all encounter.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 25/01/2024 22:40:38    2522113

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Personally think Limerick are certs, think Waterford are under pressure with players travelling or stepping back and nothing between Clare, Cork and Tipp for the 2 spots after Limerick.

Last game Tipp and Clare play in Thurles could see that been a winner takes all encounter."
I expect a massive response from Waterford this year, they have a very poor record in the round robin system thus far.
Reckon Davy may have something up his sleeve in 2024.

St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 109 - 26/01/2024 09:05:30    2522136

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think you will make up the top 3 with Limerick and Clare."
The 3rd place in Munster will be up for grabs, toss of a coin job, I reckon.

St.Mologga (Cork) - Posts: 109 - 26/01/2024 09:09:16    2522137

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Replying To St.Mologga:  "I expect a massive response from Waterford this year, they have a very poor record in the round robin system thus far.
Reckon Davy may have something up his sleeve in 2024."
He's a great manager. But I'm not sure he has enough pace in the side as a whole. They will likely be better than the last couple of years that way but you would also worry about their lack of any underage success since 2016. Think they have only won 1 or 2 games even, at minor and u20 since then.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12130 - 26/01/2024 10:06:14    2522141

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think you will make up the top 3 with Limerick and Clare."
No guarantees whatever in Munster. IF Limerick lose to Clare, as they have often done in Ennis, they are immediately under pressure.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4344 - 26/01/2024 21:53:49    2522265

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