National Forum

Dropping Counties Out Of The NHL With Less Than 5 Hurling Clubs

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "That's along the lines of what "the Liam Griffin proposal" was at Congress earlier this year - that every club should provide hurling to players up to U12, save for a couple of exceptions such as:
a) there was already a separate hurling club in the area, capable of catering for those children, or
b) demographics showed conclusively that a club simply wouldn't be capable of fielding a hurling team.

If it had been passed, the supports would have been put in place all right.

However, it was roundly defeated, after being opposed in the main by the sort of counties where hurling is such a minority sport.

I remember even being in a discussion with one such opponent on here afterwards, whose main point was "sure where would clubs get time for hurling, on top of all the football they already do?"

The answer is simple - just do what all existing dual clubs do. Split sessions so that some are football and some are hurling, or alternatively, in an hour's training session, do maybe 40 minutes of football and 20 minutes of hurling.

Anyway, in that particular instance, it wasn't a case of "the GAA don't seem to care". It was a case of how the counties who'd be involved simply didn't want to do it."
Fair enough I guess these proposals have to be passed. It boils down to people actively trying to prevent hurling from developing as they think it will be a hinderance to football

upandwin (Down) - Posts: 112 - 01/12/2023 14:44:41    2515211

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Replying To Past hurler:  "You sure about that?

It was the very first thing the commentator from Carlow mentioned on the radio when MLR won that match.

He also stated Oulart wouldn't play MLR the year before in a challenge match as they didn't seem them strong enough.

On the flip side of that, Kilkenny have been brilliant for Carlow & Kildare hurling, allowing their underage teams enter their leagues which the fruits can be seen isn't Nass adult club and also allowing Carlow senior clubs enter their adult leagues."
I'm very sure what happened to Carlow had absolutely no bearing on Wexfords opposition to that change. As regards Oulart viewing MLR as not good enough I'm not involved with either club so I genuinely don't know. I do know there is a very frustrating, and largely misplaced these days, sense of where Wexford hurling is, or maybe belongs, in some sections of the hurling community down here.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12971 - 01/12/2023 15:01:09    2515212

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Replying To upandwin:  "Fair enough I guess these proposals have to be passed. It boils down to people actively trying to prevent hurling from developing as they think it will be a hinderance to football"
I do think that's a big part of it. Although none of the 5 counties except Cavan have won an AI in football in any case.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12971 - 01/12/2023 15:05:56    2515216

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Replying To Bon:  "I doubt that somehow"
Oh really? Would you care to expand on your statement?

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 880 - 01/12/2023 15:14:47    2515220

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Replying To cavanman47:  "I'm not 100% certain, I'm probably 95%. . . but my guess would be no."
A good and honest answer :)

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2327 - 01/12/2023 15:20:56    2515222

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Replying To upandwin:  "Fair enough I guess these proposals have to be passed. It boils down to people actively trying to prevent hurling from developing as they think it will be a hinderance to football"
It definitely seems that's unfortunately the case in far too many places.

Other side of that coin is how Kilkenny are sometimes criticised for lack of effort re. football - even including another person's comment on the previous page of this thread, in relation to Martin Fogarty.

But it's an absolute fact that there are more Kilkenny clubs involved in football than there are clubs involved in hurling in the five counties in question here, and in a number of other counties too. Also that there are more club football matches and competitions in Kilkenny than there are club hurling matches in those counties.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2327 - 01/12/2023 15:27:01    2515226

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Its probably easier than giving money in to a black hole where no value will come from it, in all honesty.
Lets get real, bar Antrim there is not one county north of the Galway-Dublin line on a map where the game will ever make an in road.
The best money the GAA could spend in hurling is in underage in Antrim, Kildare, Laois, Offaly, Carlow, Wicklow and Kerry. These counties can make progress with the right backing and the right championship structures to help them prosper.
For the rest of them, bringing the horse to the water is all you are at."
I agree with you on this well said. I would add Meath to the underage hurling spend, they are making great strides and a collective big effort and some funding would surely help.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4919 - 01/12/2023 16:57:14    2515234

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Martin Fogarty's comments on this are surely laced with irony, his own county's attitude and participation in football is scandalous and deliberate"
How and in what way is Kilkenny's attitude and participation in football 'scandalous and deliberate'?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2616 - 01/12/2023 22:03:43    2515243

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Replying To arock:  "I agree with you on this well said. I would add Meath to the underage hurling spend, they are making great strides and a collective big effort and some funding would surely help."
Even though Westmeath have probably showed more promise than any of them named counties in recent years. So I would say some underage funding should come our way as well.

Dheen (Westmeath) - Posts: 850 - 02/12/2023 09:18:53    2515247

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Replying To Viking66:  "I'm very sure what happened to Carlow had absolutely no bearing on Wexfords opposition to that change. As regards Oulart viewing MLR as not good enough I'm not involved with either club so I genuinely don't know. I do know there is a very frustrating, and largely misplaced these days, sense of where Wexford hurling is, or maybe belongs, in some sections of the hurling community down here."
Belief in where we belong is not misplaced.

Belief in where we actually are is another thing.

I will say this though, our players tend to do very well in colleges.

I think the problem here these days is that we're a very large county geographically by pretty sparsely populated.

Would probably do us good to have fewer clubs.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2931 - 02/12/2023 15:31:51    2515264

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Belief in where we belong is not misplaced.

Belief in where we actually are is another thing.

I will say this though, our players tend to do very well in colleges.

I think the problem here these days is that we're a very large county geographically by pretty sparsely populated.

Would probably do us good to have fewer clubs."
Sorry Doylerwex I didn't want that post to sound like I didn't want us to be at the top of the hurling tree, but rather that we are not currently and haven't been for a very long time.
I'm not sure fewer clubs would be the answer, as if we had fewer clubs further away from eachother less lads would bring their kids to learn the game in the 1st place.
What we need clubs to work at is increased participation in their area from junior infants onwards, better retention then after that, better skills coaching especially at u10, u12 and u14 , and more retention into adult finally. The standard of club hurling across the board would be higher then, and the county teams should do better as a result. Not many clubs are doing well at all of the points above, and some are doing pretty poorly at several of the points. The Board need to provide more support, especially on the coaching side of things.
In recent years the Board has done very well on the off the pitch side of things, infrastructure, financial stability, sponsorship, etc, and that is to be commended, but the most important side of things, underage participation, coaching and retention, seems to have been given less priority. The Board needs to support the clubs more this way, financially, coaching wise, and education wise. Some clubs are only doing 1 hour a week training at those critical age groups, which in reality means 1 hour a fortnight as most clubs are dual, and that not taking into account some sessions are cancelled on account of adverse weather. Its just not enough.
If those 3 things improve, clubs will have more members and therefore more volunteers to mentor teams and more income, the standard of club games will improve and therefore attendance at them, and the standard of player our Intercounty teams will select from will be better. This should make them more successful, which will lead to them being better supported, leading to increased sponsorship and gate revenue. A rising tide to float all boats so to speak. The penny pinching attitude to supporting underage and adult players with decent training aids and even an adequate supply of siotars will then no longer be necessary either. By concentrating so hard on off the pitch things we have definitely been putting the cart before the horse. The Westmeath game was a new low for me, both on and off the pitch. I don't think I was ever at a Wexford championship hurling game that only had 2000 odd Wexford supporters at it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12971 - 02/12/2023 17:44:09    2515270

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Proposal was withdrawn in the end. Probably best in the circumstances, because as I said back in my very first post on Page 1 of this thread, we never actually got further details on how exactly money saved on League participation would be used to develop hurling in those counties, or how exactly "an expanded Lory Meagher Cup" would operate.

Remains noteworthy how most or all of the County Boards involved were vocal about how what it would have done to hurling in those counties. Suggests on the face of it that they're concerned about hurling and want to maintain and presumably develop it. So will be interesting to hear what exact ideas or proposals they come up with themselves (if any) to make that happen.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2327 - 03/12/2023 10:30:18    2515306

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Proposal was withdrawn in the end. Probably best in the circumstances, because as I said back in my very first post on Page 1 of this thread, we never actually got further details on how exactly money saved on League participation would be used to develop hurling in those counties, or how exactly "an expanded Lory Meagher Cup" would operate.

Remains noteworthy how most or all of the County Boards involved were vocal about how what it would have done to hurling in those counties. Suggests on the face of it that they're concerned about hurling and want to maintain and presumably develop it. So will be interesting to hear what exact ideas or proposals they come up with themselves (if any) to make that happen."
Hmm probably not a good idea to hold your breath unless you fancy being a blue man. Seriously though the GAA as a whole could do more as regards funding GPOs to coach interested parents and teachers to be better coaches.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12971 - 03/12/2023 12:29:20    2515319

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