National Forum

Is GAA, Or More Specifically It's Prominence, A Bad Thing For Irish Sport?

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "See, people saying that the reason there isn't more track and field venues and facilities etc is the main reason, not the GAA. However, it could be said, that the dominance of the GAA is the very reason there isn't those facilities, if you get me?
Like, why has Ireland never, in my lifetime, produced a half decent tennis player? I don't include Canadians and Yanks of Irish parentage, I mean a man or woman, born of this land. Similarly why have we never produced a basketballer of any note?

To the lads wondering why I picked Norway and Croatia, i picked them simply because they are similar population to ourselves and are far, far more dominant internationally than we are at a variety of sports."
Tennis and basketball need a dedicated surface to play on. Not too many farmyards have the required surface for these sports.

The reason the GAA and even more so soccer are so successful is they don't require any sort of facilities - just a ball and maybe a wall. Couple this with tradition and ingrained mindsets they'll continue to be the main sports of choice for kids.

Soccer should be much bigger in Ireland but the absolute incompetence in the FAI along with maybe some more hardline anti English sentiment in the northern counties has meant that it's never become as popular as it should have. Having said that there are vast swathes of Donegal that are soccer only areas. In Monaghan though I can tell you for a fact that whatever soccer organisations are available in the county are run by absolute idiots who couldn't organise a rip in a brewery.

Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 121 - 26/09/2023 20:52:00    2505904

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "See, people saying that the reason there isn't more track and field venues and facilities etc is the main reason, not the GAA. However, it could be said, that the dominance of the GAA is the very reason there isn't those facilities, if you get me?
Like, why has Ireland never, in my lifetime, produced a half decent tennis player? I don't include Canadians and Yanks of Irish parentage, I mean a man or woman, born of this land. Similarly why have we never produced a basketballer of any note?

To the lads wondering why I picked Norway and Croatia, i picked them simply because they are similar population to ourselves and are far, far more dominant internationally than we are at a variety of sports."
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

Define dominant?

I've already mentioned our Boxers, jockeys and golfers.

Rugby too, and huge interest in our own sports.

Eoin Quigley, Ciarán lyng, Lee chin and conal flood all played professional soccer, but actively chose to hurl or kick football for wexford instead. It is their passion.

I will admit soccer is the great anomaly though.

We've fallen behind, but you can't blame the gaa for fai neglect.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2548 - 26/09/2023 21:58:27    2505909

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "See, people saying that the reason there isn't more track and field venues and facilities etc is the main reason, not the GAA. However, it could be said, that the dominance of the GAA is the very reason there isn't those facilities, if you get me?
Like, why has Ireland never, in my lifetime, produced a half decent tennis player? I don't include Canadians and Yanks of Irish parentage, I mean a man or woman, born of this land. Similarly why have we never produced a basketballer of any note?

To the lads wondering why I picked Norway and Croatia, i picked them simply because they are similar population to ourselves and are far, far more dominant internationally than we are at a variety of sports."
The GAA plays a role though. In many countries in europe at least many sports facilities are municipal which helps get a greater variety and quality to facilities which helps far more sports than just the biggest like here in ireland where biggest sports have in general good facilities while most others struggle.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3463 - 26/09/2023 23:58:03    2505920

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Globalisation has been good for the planet. the alternative would be worse

GAA will always be strongest in ireland and describing the players in this case as mercenaries is highly ignorant of majority of the players in this situation"
Globalisation is another word for American colonialism and is responsible for almost all of the major issues facing the plantet, from social to environmental and everything in between.

If the yanks had their way the GAA would be stuck behind paywalls with its amateur status removed and a free for all with transfers. All the more reason to adore the GAA the way it is, as well as it's status in Irish culture.

Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 121 - 27/09/2023 08:26:36    2505927

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Ah Liam the kid... All good down in Limerick.

Kids GAA has a big focus on all round athlete development. Then the basic skills of GAA which are applicable to many sports. I would like to see the GAA expand into organised athletic events. (Athletics Ireland make the FAI look good). Local events and races between clubs etc. A running tracks would benefit everyone in the community especially in winter time.

Id guess the reason we dont produce tennis players (same as Norway) is its ******* rain. Ireland cricket team have had 4 out of last 5 matches cancelled due to rain sadly. We are well suited to GAA, rugby, athletics - esp longer distances and XC.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 27/09/2023 09:19:20    2505933

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Replying To Jjoniel79:  "And look at how wonderful globalisation has been for the planet…

The GAA is strong and will remain the cultural focal point of nearly all of the towns and villages in Ireland as long as it sticks to its traditions. You play for the club in the parish you were born in with exception made under exceptional circumstances. Your community gets behind you and you give back however you can.

Soccer, rugby and whatever other colonial sports be dammed. I'd far rather be a hero in my community than be a mercenary for the highest bidder abroad"
Ha, so you are saying if you were for example Shane Long you would have turned down the offer to play professional football, earn millions, be retired at 35 if you wished, all so you could win an All-Ireland with Tipp or a county title with Gortnahoe-Glengoole?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1723 - 27/09/2023 09:39:48    2505937

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Ha, so you are saying if you were for example Shane Long you would have turned down the offer to play professional football, earn millions, be retired at 35 if you wished, all so you could win an All-Ireland with Tipp or a county title with Gortnahoe-Glengoole?"
Conal flood did do that, and he probably won't even win anything.

Same with Eoin Quigley, Lee chin and Ciarán Lyng

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2548 - 27/09/2023 09:42:54    2505941

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Conal flood did do that, and he probably won't even win anything.

Same with Eoin Quigley, Lee chin and Ciarán Lyng"
None of those were good enough to earn even a working mans salary, truth be told.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1078 - 27/09/2023 16:39:01    2506021

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Just a quick comment on one thing I've seen on here, and to be fair it's been said in many places. This idea that if David Clifford had stuck to soccer he'd be guaranteed to be a professional footballer is ABSOLUTE HORSESH*TE!!!

Sorry. But that nonsense annoys me brain!!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 27/09/2023 17:07:51    2506030

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Replying To brianb:  "To me this reads more like blaming the GAA for the failures of other sports. The prominence we place on GAA is not doing rugby any harm at the moment. I would argue it wouldn't harm our Soccer team either if the FAI had their house in order.

In fact its probably more likely that the community involvement through the GAA from a young age, getting kids into sport has a positive effect on all sports. There are plenty of examples of promising underage players leaving the GAA behind and having a successful professional sports career in other sports.

If someone has the talent to be a premier league footballer or a provincial rugby player or a top inter-county player - it is up to them to decide which to pursue."
Couldn't agree more with you,dead right,the fai need to get there house in order,to be fair to rugby,they have been pumping money into underage for the last 15 years,it's up to other sports to up there game,like there is certain sports in the community games that I never heard of until my child was in a different national school.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 770 - 27/09/2023 18:44:58    2506038

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "Just a quick comment on one thing I've seen on here, and to be fair it's been said in many places. This idea that if David Clifford had stuck to soccer he'd be guaranteed to be a professional footballer is ABSOLUTE HORSESH*TE!!!

Sorry. But that nonsense annoys me brain!!"
Bang on, he'd be nowhere near Adam Idahs level Nevermind premier league

Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 121 - 28/09/2023 09:39:36    2506068

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "See, people saying that the reason there isn't more track and field venues and facilities etc is the main reason, not the GAA. However, it could be said, that the dominance of the GAA is the very reason there isn't those facilities, if you get me?
Like, why has Ireland never, in my lifetime, produced a half decent tennis player? I don't include Canadians and Yanks of Irish parentage, I mean a man or woman, born of this land. Similarly why have we never produced a basketballer of any note?

To the lads wondering why I picked Norway and Croatia, i picked them simply because they are similar population to ourselves and are far, far more dominant internationally than we are at a variety of sports."
Larry Bird, ex of the Boston Celtics is a very famous Basketball club. John P McEnroe and Jimmy Connors had Irish links. As had Aussie Pat Rafter.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2508 - 28/09/2023 10:52:53    2506084

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "Just a quick comment on one thing I've seen on here, and to be fair it's been said in many places. This idea that if David Clifford had stuck to soccer he'd be guaranteed to be a professional footballer is ABSOLUTE HORSESH*TE!!!

Sorry. But that nonsense annoys me brain!!"
Wouldnt be guaranteed of course but Kevin Moran made it with arguably less raw talent, John Egan has made it as a full time professional footballer with Sheffield Utd, lots of top class GAA players would have been successful professionals in other sports if they had concentrated on them...Joe Canning could have gone to rugby and have no doubt would have had a successful career in it , Michael Murphy from Donegal, another gifted sportsman who would have been successful in other codes. Jimmy Barry Murphy son probably could have been an inter county star for Cork but made a (financially) successful professional soccer career at a lower level. Seanie O leary's son massively successful at rugby when he certainly was set to establish himself as a senior Cork hurler. The cream comes to the top regardless of what vessel it's poured into. I think your brain is annoyed too easily.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1893 - 28/09/2023 11:20:47    2506087

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Wouldnt be guaranteed of course but Kevin Moran made it with arguably less raw talent, John Egan has made it as a full time professional footballer with Sheffield Utd, lots of top class GAA players would have been successful professionals in other sports if they had concentrated on them...Joe Canning could have gone to rugby and have no doubt would have had a successful career in it , Michael Murphy from Donegal, another gifted sportsman who would have been successful in other codes. Jimmy Barry Murphy son probably could have been an inter county star for Cork but made a (financially) successful professional soccer career at a lower level. Seanie O leary's son massively successful at rugby when he certainly was set to establish himself as a senior Cork hurler. The cream comes to the top regardless of what vessel it's poured into. I think your brain is annoyed too easily."
David Meyler (son of John Meyler) is another one to have made a good living in soccer after also playing gaelic football and hurling while growing up.

And not to disrespect him in any way, but I doubt he had the same raw talent as a footballer as David Clifford had.

So to my mind, saying it's horse**** to claim that Clifford couldn't have made it as soccer player is itself horsesh*te when you consider others who have done so.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2155 - 28/09/2023 11:35:37    2506091

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "David Meyler (son of John Meyler) is another one to have made a good living in soccer after also playing gaelic football and hurling while growing up.

And not to disrespect him in any way, but I doubt he had the same raw talent as a footballer as David Clifford had.

So to my mind, saying it's horse**** to claim that Clifford couldn't have made it as soccer player is itself horsesh*te when you consider others who have done so."
Clifford could have been good at chess and tiddlywinks, and not had superior touch for soccer. Who knows? There's an element of speculation in this 'area' always, so one has to sympathise with anyone crying 'horseshite' imo.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3360 - 28/09/2023 12:57:52    2506105

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "David Meyler (son of John Meyler) is another one to have made a good living in soccer after also playing gaelic football and hurling while growing up.

And not to disrespect him in any way, but I doubt he had the same raw talent as a footballer as David Clifford had.

So to my mind, saying it's horse**** to claim that Clifford couldn't have made it as soccer player is itself horsesh*te when you consider others who have done so."
People consistently under appreciate just how difficult it is and how much talent allied to hard graft it takes to carve a career out for yourself in professional soccer.

The likes of John Egan and David Meyler have had phenomenal careers in many ways, just in terms of the sheer ludicrous number of people they had to compete with just to get to the level that they've gotten to.

To use a silly analogy.

David Clifford has reached the very top of his mountain - Carrantuohill

David Meyler and John Egan haven't scaled their mountain at all, only making it 3/4s the way up but they were climbing Everest.

I know you aren't trying to disrespect the likes of Egan and Meyler but people consistently undervalue just how brilliant their achievements are just because they didn't reach the very top.

Clifford could have an excellent soccer player perhaps, we don't know. But he would be far more likely to be playing in Mounthawk for Kerry F.C. than playing regularly in the Championship/League One nevermind making it to the very top. And that's no disrespect at all to Clifford.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13685 - 28/09/2023 14:38:27    2506121

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Replying To MesAmis:  "People consistently under appreciate just how difficult it is and how much talent allied to hard graft it takes to carve a career out for yourself in professional soccer.

The likes of John Egan and David Meyler have had phenomenal careers in many ways, just in terms of the sheer ludicrous number of people they had to compete with just to get to the level that they've gotten to.

To use a silly analogy.

David Clifford has reached the very top of his mountain - Carrantuohill

David Meyler and John Egan haven't scaled their mountain at all, only making it 3/4s the way up but they were climbing Everest.

I know you aren't trying to disrespect the likes of Egan and Meyler but people consistently undervalue just how brilliant their achievements are just because they didn't reach the very top.

Clifford could have an excellent soccer player perhaps, we don't know. But he would be far more likely to be playing in Mounthawk for Kerry F.C. than playing regularly in the Championship/League One nevermind making it to the very top. And that's no disrespect at all to Clifford."
Not sure what point you're making or how much of it is aimed specifically at me, given that I most certainly was not disrespecting Meyler or undervaluing his achievements, and I didn't even mention Egan.

Furthermore, you're actually agreeing with me re. Clifford, as all I said initially was that he could have been a top soccer player, not that he would have, and you say "could have" yourself as well.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2155 - 28/09/2023 15:28:47    2506132

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Not sure what point you're making or how much of it is aimed specifically at me, given that I most certainly was not disrespecting Meyler or undervaluing his achievements, and I didn't even mention Egan.

Furthermore, you're actually agreeing with me re. Clifford, as all I said initially was that he could have been a top soccer player, not that he would have, and you say "could have" yourself as well."
Cuda wuda shuda........not much point splitting hairs about that.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3360 - 28/09/2023 15:54:06    2506136

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Ha, so you are saying if you were for example Shane Long you would have turned down the offer to play professional football, earn millions, be retired at 35 if you wished, all so you could win an All-Ireland with Tipp or a county title with Gortnahoe-Glengoole?"
Lot of very average guys play professional football (assume you mean soccer) some of them are not even fit to run fast! Not sure I could pick out too many good Irish soccer players. The reason these guys get so well paid is largely because of television and all the folk paying thru the nose for sky sports- best of luck to them but many of these games are difficult to watch. Unfortunately our football (GAA) has copied and has now the same problem with passing backway and side ways - should be called handball!. The reason it is so popular is due to many aspects ranging from facilities that you find in every corner of the country much of which is put there by communities (big and small) who organize and raise funds in their own spare time. Every parish has 1 to 3 clubs and these were operating when there was little else to do. Not everyone wants to get paid for their hobby thankfully. Just because one gets paid to play does not mean they do it better!

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2336 - 28/09/2023 21:53:28    2506165

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Replying To galwayford:  "Larry Bird, ex of the Boston Celtics is a very famous Basketball club. John P McEnroe and Jimmy Connors had Irish links. As had Aussie Pat Rafter."
They say Liam McHale could have made it in the States. Saw him play basketball in the 90's and he was a serious machine

fairplay4ever (Galway) - Posts: 415 - 28/09/2023 22:58:33    2506172

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