National Forum

Irish And The AFL

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To PattyONeill:  "Australian Football is boring because of the mark. I have a PS4 game of it and it is insufferable to play and very difficult."
Its not boring and the mark as well as the tackle and how thats managed doesnt make it boring
Yeah a computer game really shows everything about it is ****..

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3437 - 22/08/2023 18:44:18    2501830

Link

And what about the lads that stop playing hurling and football to go play soccer or rugby ....off they go ,where only given out cause aussie rules is similar to our handpassing game

Timmy86 (Sligo) - Posts: 266 - 22/08/2023 22:20:44    2501836

Link

Replying To Saynothing:  "Well 3/4's free anyway."
Brilliant Saynothing ha ha!

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3612 - 22/08/2023 23:36:32    2501839

Link

Good bit of nonsense about clubs training and developing players who then leave. What job in the world has staff they have trained who havent moved on for better wages?

Whestofthewest (Clare) - Posts: 113 - 23/08/2023 13:16:42    2501912

Link

Replying To Saynothing:  "Well 3/4's free anyway."
It's not that free down here any more Saynothing.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11165 - 23/08/2023 14:30:39    2501942

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "It's not that free down here any more Saynothing."
That sounds a bit "for roysh" to me Viking :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2403 - 23/08/2023 15:11:04    2501954

Link

Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Such is life old chap."
A meaningless retort on your part, old chap!

togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 870 - 24/08/2023 09:50:59    2502013

Link

Replying To Whestofthewest:  "Good bit of nonsense about clubs training and developing players who then leave. What job in the world has staff they have trained who havent moved on for better wages?"
The key flaws in your argument include the terms job, staff and wages. A professional organisation plundering an amateur organisation built on massive voluntary effort, hard fundraising and goodwill is a **** take on the AFL's part - and they know it!

togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 870 - 24/08/2023 09:52:57    2502014

Link

Replying To james2011:  "small but impactful. There are currently 12 Irish lads in Australia playing. Once, Barry O Connor, is playing VFL and stayed out because his girlfriend is out there on a netball contract, so he made a decision to stay in Australia regardless. Allowing 30 players per inter county squad, that represents 1.25% of the intercounty playing population. We have also seen plenty of lads who come back dont even make county teams, much like a vaunted minor who just doesnt make it at senior level. The "plundering" is being way over hyped, and if a young lad gets an opportunity to go play professional sports in a better climate than here in his late teens/early 20s, then more power to him to give it a go. The GAA dont have exclusive rights over players. Sure they could easily decide to go work in Australia at something else and be lost, like many clubs are currently experiencing. It just happens the job here is in AFL."
Colligwood, Hawthorn, Carlton, Geelong and the 10 other top 14 AFL teams have a combined brand value alone of over €300 Million. The main sponsors signed for the current season include Ford, Toyota, McDonalds, KFC and a host of other global household names. This is very big business. Their scouts then scour Ireland at minor and adult level football AND hurling to try and entice the cream of upcoming talent to attend 'Combines' / trials and to the 'lucky' few, give them lowball offers to come and enjoy the sunshine and potential for a professional sports career in a code in which they've no training or experience. Good luck to the players involved in that regard but what about our cash strapped clubs and counties (in the vast majority of cases). The AFL clubs and their sycophant scouts here don't give a rats ass about you and me, the GAA volunteers, who at huge financial and opportunity cost to ourselves and our clubs help hone these players skills, and help guide and develop them as sportsmen and women, sometimes over the course of 15 or 20 years. I'm adamant that a Carlton or Hawthorn professional sports franchise should make a meaningful financial 'donation' to Clubs in question, at the very least, and perhaps County level donations too. So if a generational underage talent, particularly in a lower playing tier county, loses that rising star to AFL after huge local effort to get him or her to the level they're playing at, should a multi-million dollar sports franchise be able to get that 'transfer' without compensating the Club and/or County with so much as a cent! They don't even say thank you! It's laughable and the laugh is on us plebeian club grafters in the GAA. The AFL money men can't believe the easy pickings we are - this I know.

togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 870 - 24/08/2023 10:12:45    2502021

Link

Replying To togoutlads:  "Colligwood, Hawthorn, Carlton, Geelong and the 10 other top 14 AFL teams have a combined brand value alone of over €300 Million. The main sponsors signed for the current season include Ford, Toyota, McDonalds, KFC and a host of other global household names. This is very big business. Their scouts then scour Ireland at minor and adult level football AND hurling to try and entice the cream of upcoming talent to attend 'Combines' / trials and to the 'lucky' few, give them lowball offers to come and enjoy the sunshine and potential for a professional sports career in a code in which they've no training or experience. Good luck to the players involved in that regard but what about our cash strapped clubs and counties (in the vast majority of cases). The AFL clubs and their sycophant scouts here don't give a rats ass about you and me, the GAA volunteers, who at huge financial and opportunity cost to ourselves and our clubs help hone these players skills, and help guide and develop them as sportsmen and women, sometimes over the course of 15 or 20 years. I'm adamant that a Carlton or Hawthorn professional sports franchise should make a meaningful financial 'donation' to Clubs in question, at the very least, and perhaps County level donations too. So if a generational underage talent, particularly in a lower playing tier county, loses that rising star to AFL after huge local effort to get him or her to the level they're playing at, should a multi-million dollar sports franchise be able to get that 'transfer' without compensating the Club and/or County with so much as a cent! They don't even say thank you! It's laughable and the laugh is on us plebeian club grafters in the GAA. The AFL money men can't believe the easy pickings we are - this I know."
Who's going to make Carlton etc give compensation to a GAA Club when they sign some young lad on a rookie contract.
Whatever hope of such might have been possible when the International Rules series was going that's now gone.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1272 - 24/08/2023 10:27:43    2502025

Link

Replying To togoutlads:  "The key flaws in your argument include the terms job, staff and wages. A professional organisation plundering an amateur organisation built on massive voluntary effort, hard fundraising and goodwill is a **** take on the AFL's part - and they know it!"
Good point. The feeder colleges to the NFL and NBA benefit from the drafts.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2403 - 24/08/2023 10:44:48    2502033

Link

Replying To togoutlads:  "Colligwood, Hawthorn, Carlton, Geelong and the 10 other top 14 AFL teams have a combined brand value alone of over €300 Million. The main sponsors signed for the current season include Ford, Toyota, McDonalds, KFC and a host of other global household names. This is very big business. Their scouts then scour Ireland at minor and adult level football AND hurling to try and entice the cream of upcoming talent to attend 'Combines' / trials and to the 'lucky' few, give them lowball offers to come and enjoy the sunshine and potential for a professional sports career in a code in which they've no training or experience. Good luck to the players involved in that regard but what about our cash strapped clubs and counties (in the vast majority of cases). The AFL clubs and their sycophant scouts here don't give a rats ass about you and me, the GAA volunteers, who at huge financial and opportunity cost to ourselves and our clubs help hone these players skills, and help guide and develop them as sportsmen and women, sometimes over the course of 15 or 20 years. I'm adamant that a Carlton or Hawthorn professional sports franchise should make a meaningful financial 'donation' to Clubs in question, at the very least, and perhaps County level donations too. So if a generational underage talent, particularly in a lower playing tier county, loses that rising star to AFL after huge local effort to get him or her to the level they're playing at, should a multi-million dollar sports franchise be able to get that 'transfer' without compensating the Club and/or County with so much as a cent! They don't even say thank you! It's laughable and the laugh is on us plebeian club grafters in the GAA. The AFL money men can't believe the easy pickings we are - this I know."
a ridiculous argument on many levels.

Firstly, if they start paying clubs for rookies, it opens up a can of works within their own game. Secondly, do clubs go after other businesses or companies when they lose a player to a sport? Should Tullogher go seek compensation from Southampton for taking Thomas O Connor? Or Mayo go after Allergan because Barry Morans work there meant he had to retire from intercounty? Clubs dont own players, players come and go from clubs for various reasons and go take up job opportunities in many places. This is another job, and the vast, vast majority of players who go to the AFL from Ireland dont succeed and are back within 2 or 3 years. Some players dont even come home after finishing playing, they stay out there for other reasons. How much is this financial compensation going to be? Will clubs then be happy to start shopping out players to get a few bob in and be happy that a lad who could have left anyway is going to get them some money too. A lad taking a year or 2 out to go to OZ, sure we may as well get him signed up to an AFL list and make some money on him and he'll be home again in 2 years.

And what "huge financial costs" are put on a player who goes through a club? Every player gets trained, clubs dont lose money because one chap out of hundreds that pass through might get picked up by an AFL team, they would have had the same expense regardless. Of course the AFL clubs dont care about GAA clubs, but its beyond an exaggeration to say they are plundering our youth.

james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 602 - 24/08/2023 12:39:52    2502056

Link

Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Who's going to make Carlton etc give compensation to a GAA Club when they sign some young lad on a rookie contract.
Whatever hope of such might have been possible when the International Rules series was going that's now gone."
"Who's going to make Carlton etc give compensation to a GAA Club"

out of interest how much did Everton pay Colemans club, they make way more than an AFL club so i'm assuming somewhere in the region of 240 million euro give or take for seamus.

Whestofthewest (Clare) - Posts: 113 - 24/08/2023 13:03:14    2502062

Link

"A professional organisation plundering an amateur organisation built on massive voluntary effort, hard fundraising and goodwill is a **** take on the AFL's part - and they know it!"

Sound like you are talking about a few Dublin clubs

Whestofthewest (Clare) - Posts: 113 - 24/08/2023 13:04:30    2502063

Link

Replying To james2011:  "a ridiculous argument on many levels.

Firstly, if they start paying clubs for rookies, it opens up a can of works within their own game. Secondly, do clubs go after other businesses or companies when they lose a player to a sport? Should Tullogher go seek compensation from Southampton for taking Thomas O Connor? Or Mayo go after Allergan because Barry Morans work there meant he had to retire from intercounty? Clubs dont own players, players come and go from clubs for various reasons and go take up job opportunities in many places. This is another job, and the vast, vast majority of players who go to the AFL from Ireland dont succeed and are back within 2 or 3 years. Some players dont even come home after finishing playing, they stay out there for other reasons. How much is this financial compensation going to be? Will clubs then be happy to start shopping out players to get a few bob in and be happy that a lad who could have left anyway is going to get them some money too. A lad taking a year or 2 out to go to OZ, sure we may as well get him signed up to an AFL list and make some money on him and he'll be home again in 2 years.

And what "huge financial costs" are put on a player who goes through a club? Every player gets trained, clubs dont lose money because one chap out of hundreds that pass through might get picked up by an AFL team, they would have had the same expense regardless. Of course the AFL clubs dont care about GAA clubs, but its beyond an exaggeration to say they are plundering our youth."
Perhaps you're not involved at coaching in juvenile or other levels within your Club, if you were, you'd perhaps have a feel for the financial costs incurred by Club coaches alone - volunteers over a 15-20 year period of a club player's development. 2-6 or more hours per week for 8-9 months a year of being there - being at the training ground, travelling to away matches, collecting and dropping off players who's parents or guardians can't or won't bring them, burning time, diesel/ petrol, wear and tear, opportunity cost (where you could be doing something else with that same block of time, like earning money!) etc etc. Club coaches and volunteers, myself included, do that out of their own goodwill but the Clubs themselves should at least get something for all that decade and a half plus of developing players for a multi-million revenue AFL club. A Carlton, Geelong or similar should at the very least donate something small to those Clubs in question, in the order of €5k to €10k for a Club who've put massive effort into developing a now AFL rookie that gets signed to their professional roster. It's a small amount that might cover costs of much needed works and maintenance at clubs up and down the country. Check out the recent stories in the national papers about Carlton's recruiting efforts here. Flying in recruiting managers and list managers from Aus specifically to 'Interview' the cream of underage talent from around the country. They're having a laugh and can't believe that we help put these lads on a silver platter for them and ask for absolutely nothing in return only begging them to send our Johnny back to us in a few years when they're done with him. Clubs and Counties and the GAA need to cop on. AFL have formed a view of us in our beloved games here - Naive. Easy. Gullible. There to be picked from at will and all free of charge. But you can't see that.

togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 870 - 24/08/2023 14:53:29    2502088

Link

Replying To togoutlads:  "Perhaps you're not involved at coaching in juvenile or other levels within your Club, if you were, you'd perhaps have a feel for the financial costs incurred by Club coaches alone - volunteers over a 15-20 year period of a club player's development. 2-6 or more hours per week for 8-9 months a year of being there - being at the training ground, travelling to away matches, collecting and dropping off players who's parents or guardians can't or won't bring them, burning time, diesel/ petrol, wear and tear, opportunity cost (where you could be doing something else with that same block of time, like earning money!) etc etc. Club coaches and volunteers, myself included, do that out of their own goodwill but the Clubs themselves should at least get something for all that decade and a half plus of developing players for a multi-million revenue AFL club. A Carlton, Geelong or similar should at the very least donate something small to those Clubs in question, in the order of €5k to €10k for a Club who've put massive effort into developing a now AFL rookie that gets signed to their professional roster. It's a small amount that might cover costs of much needed works and maintenance at clubs up and down the country. Check out the recent stories in the national papers about Carlton's recruiting efforts here. Flying in recruiting managers and list managers from Aus specifically to 'Interview' the cream of underage talent from around the country. They're having a laugh and can't believe that we help put these lads on a silver platter for them and ask for absolutely nothing in return only begging them to send our Johnny back to us in a few years when they're done with him. Clubs and Counties and the GAA need to cop on. AFL have formed a view of us in our beloved games here - Naive. Easy. Gullible. There to be picked from at will and all free of charge. But you can't see that."
2 different sports, 2 different governing bodies.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1272 - 24/08/2023 16:41:17    2502112

Link

Replying To togoutlads:  "Perhaps you're not involved at coaching in juvenile or other levels within your Club, if you were, you'd perhaps have a feel for the financial costs incurred by Club coaches alone - volunteers over a 15-20 year period of a club player's development. 2-6 or more hours per week for 8-9 months a year of being there - being at the training ground, travelling to away matches, collecting and dropping off players who's parents or guardians can't or won't bring them, burning time, diesel/ petrol, wear and tear, opportunity cost (where you could be doing something else with that same block of time, like earning money!) etc etc. Club coaches and volunteers, myself included, do that out of their own goodwill but the Clubs themselves should at least get something for all that decade and a half plus of developing players for a multi-million revenue AFL club. A Carlton, Geelong or similar should at the very least donate something small to those Clubs in question, in the order of €5k to €10k for a Club who've put massive effort into developing a now AFL rookie that gets signed to their professional roster. It's a small amount that might cover costs of much needed works and maintenance at clubs up and down the country. Check out the recent stories in the national papers about Carlton's recruiting efforts here. Flying in recruiting managers and list managers from Aus specifically to 'Interview' the cream of underage talent from around the country. They're having a laugh and can't believe that we help put these lads on a silver platter for them and ask for absolutely nothing in return only begging them to send our Johnny back to us in a few years when they're done with him. Clubs and Counties and the GAA need to cop on. AFL have formed a view of us in our beloved games here - Naive. Easy. Gullible. There to be picked from at will and all free of charge. But you can't see that."
I do all those things for a group of lads. If 1 of them ends up in the AFL fair play to the lad.
What about the countless lads who will end up on the beer or with a woman, or choose to play soccer or rugby, and never end up playing adult for their club? Or get a job somewhere else and end up playing football or hurling for another club in this country? Should some brewery, woman, LOI, IRFU, or other GAA club give our club money also?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11165 - 25/08/2023 13:08:37    2502219

Link

Replying To togoutlads:  "Perhaps you're not involved at coaching in juvenile or other levels within your Club, if you were, you'd perhaps have a feel for the financial costs incurred by Club coaches alone - volunteers over a 15-20 year period of a club player's development. 2-6 or more hours per week for 8-9 months a year of being there - being at the training ground, travelling to away matches, collecting and dropping off players who's parents or guardians can't or won't bring them, burning time, diesel/ petrol, wear and tear, opportunity cost (where you could be doing something else with that same block of time, like earning money!) etc etc. Club coaches and volunteers, myself included, do that out of their own goodwill but the Clubs themselves should at least get something for all that decade and a half plus of developing players for a multi-million revenue AFL club. A Carlton, Geelong or similar should at the very least donate something small to those Clubs in question, in the order of €5k to €10k for a Club who've put massive effort into developing a now AFL rookie that gets signed to their professional roster. It's a small amount that might cover costs of much needed works and maintenance at clubs up and down the country. Check out the recent stories in the national papers about Carlton's recruiting efforts here. Flying in recruiting managers and list managers from Aus specifically to 'Interview' the cream of underage talent from around the country. They're having a laugh and can't believe that we help put these lads on a silver platter for them and ask for absolutely nothing in return only begging them to send our Johnny back to us in a few years when they're done with him. Clubs and Counties and the GAA need to cop on. AFL have formed a view of us in our beloved games here - Naive. Easy. Gullible. There to be picked from at will and all free of charge. But you can't see that."
Yes, the AFL plundering the 12 players is what is the big issue. There are far more players lost from a small rural club to a big urban or city GAA club that could have stayed, but the lure of enhanced conditions given made sure they leave. They should get compensation also, given that those club volunteers also burned time and could have been working.

Your arguments are all over the place. You want a club to be compensated when a player goes to the AFL because coaches helped coach their team when they were young in the club and they might have been able to earn money if they werent coaching that team (and player). I dont coach because I want to be compensated. I do it because I enjoy it and I like seeing players improve and get better. If one player I helped coach went to Australia and played AFL, I would be immensely proud to know that my coaching would have helped him succeed, not crying because I could have been doing something else and earning money instead.

james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 602 - 25/08/2023 15:42:46    2502244

Link

to be fair to the Galway poster I wouldnt be too worried about AFL scouts, AFL is a very physical game and your footballers are only wee lads

Whestofthewest (Clare) - Posts: 113 - 28/08/2023 13:26:11    2502632

Link

Another 4 great young players gone today, including our future midfield anchor for Galway. So, so disappointing. Congratulations AFL, hope you enjoy all the benefits! You're welcome. What else can we do for ye? I've another 15 years of coaching to put into some future greats here, I'll let you know when they're ready for cherry picking. G'day.

togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 870 - 06/09/2023 09:38:44    2503234

Link