National Forum

2023 WEXFORD FOOTBALL C SHIP

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Replying To Formertownie:  "
Replying To Pikeman96:  "It's true that some rules are not the same across all counties. This is because counties are allowed set their own bye-laws in certain areas - e.g. how they operate club catchment areas ("the parish rule"), transfers within the county, and underage grades (i.e. U13/15/17 or U14/16/18). But that doesn't make any county's rules or bye-laws any less valid.

Can assure you that the people who sit on Disciplinary and Hearings Committees do indeed know the rules. I've sat on one of those committees in the past, and I've also been on the other side of them when representing my club in appeals.

The vast majority of appeals are unsuccessful, precisely because the rules are indeed clear and set in stone. However, you almost never hear about these ones, and they certainly don't get widespread attention unless they're particularly high profile.

Successful appeals are normally successful on foot of procedural matters rather than anomalies or loopholes in the rules themselves. For example, a referee sends somebody off and cites him for striking with the hurl. The Disciplinary Committee hands down the mandatory two-match suspension. The club lodges an appeal, produces video evidence, and convinces the Hearings Committee that the appropriate offence was actually striking with the hurl with minimum force. The two-match suspension is overturned and the lesser mandatory suspension of just one match is applied instead.

Sometimes there are successful appeals because a county's bye-laws haven't been properly written or properly introduced. However, there hasn't been a case like this in Wexford for several years now.

Can't think offhand of an example of somebody who's suspended from local championship still being allowed to play in Leinster championship - do you have one in mind?

Rule Book is clear that promotion/relegation play-offs are separate competitions, and this applies nationally. I'm honestly not sure of the reason why, but I suspect it's to allow for a situation where play-offs also include round-robin games. If they were the same competitions, then scoring difference etc. from the group games of the main stage of the championship would have to be carried over into the play-offs, and could severely distort things.

Finally, yes, sometimes "legal eagles" get involved and successfully argue that there's a loophole in a rule, or that it doesn't properly cover off a situation in the way intended. But remember they do this in actual legal settings all the time too, from the District Court right up to the Supreme Court. If they can pick holes in laws of the land that are written by professional drafters, it's not surprising they can sometimes pick holes in certain GAA rules too.

Anyway, maybe that's enough about rules. If you ever do want a look at the official Rule Book yourself, all three parts of it are here: https://www.gaa.ie/the-gaa/rules-regulations/
link"
Thank you clears up a lot
Gorey player few years back in leinster .
Don't like mentioning names.
I ll save that Web address for future reference .
Think most times people accept their punishment as its most likely deserved .
Unless it is felt harsh/based on lies, exaggeration of facts etc . or player crucial for next game/games and depending on how far or resources at the disposal what they do . Can't they find that loophole .
As I said most times deserved and accepted"
You mean Ballygarret player?

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 628 - 25/10/2023 16:26:19    2510298

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Replying To countyman2022:  "
Replying To Formertownie:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "It's true that some rules are not the same across all counties. This is because counties are allowed set their own bye-laws in certain areas - e.g. how they operate club catchment areas ("the parish rule"), transfers within the county, and underage grades (i.e. U13/15/17 or U14/16/18). But that doesn't make any county's rules or bye-laws any less valid.

Can assure you that the people who sit on Disciplinary and Hearings Committees do indeed know the rules. I've sat on one of those committees in the past, and I've also been on the other side of them when representing my club in appeals.

The vast majority of appeals are unsuccessful, precisely because the rules are indeed clear and set in stone. However, you almost never hear about these ones, and they certainly don't get widespread attention unless they're particularly high profile.

Successful appeals are normally successful on foot of procedural matters rather than anomalies or loopholes in the rules themselves. For example, a referee sends somebody off and cites him for striking with the hurl. The Disciplinary Committee hands down the mandatory two-match suspension. The club lodges an appeal, produces video evidence, and convinces the Hearings Committee that the appropriate offence was actually striking with the hurl with minimum force. The two-match suspension is overturned and the lesser mandatory suspension of just one match is applied instead.

Sometimes there are successful appeals because a county's bye-laws haven't been properly written or properly introduced. However, there hasn't been a case like this in Wexford for several years now.

Can't think offhand of an example of somebody who's suspended from local championship still being allowed to play in Leinster championship - do you have one in mind?

Rule Book is clear that promotion/relegation play-offs are separate competitions, and this applies nationally. I'm honestly not sure of the reason why, but I suspect it's to allow for a situation where play-offs also include round-robin games. If they were the same competitions, then scoring difference etc. from the group games of the main stage of the championship would have to be carried over into the play-offs, and could severely distort things.

Finally, yes, sometimes "legal eagles" get involved and successfully argue that there's a loophole in a rule, or that it doesn't properly cover off a situation in the way intended. But remember they do this in actual legal settings all the time too, from the District Court right up to the Supreme Court. If they can pick holes in laws of the land that are written by professional drafters, it's not surprising they can sometimes pick holes in certain GAA rules too.

Anyway, maybe that's enough about rules. If you ever do want a look at the official Rule Book yourself, all three parts of it are here: https://www.gaa.ie/the-gaa/rules-regulations/
link"
Thank you clears up a lot
Gorey player few years back in leinster .
Don't like mentioning names.
I ll save that Web address for future reference .
Think most times people accept their punishment as its most likely deserved .
Unless it is felt harsh/based on lies, exaggeration of facts etc . or player crucial for next game/games and depending on how far or resources at the disposal what they do . Can't they find that loophole .
As I said most times deserved and accepted"
You mean Ballygarret player?"]Oohhh harsh , thiugh it was only townies that moved and held grudges

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 151 - 25/10/2023 16:32:25    2510301

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Replying To Formertownie:  "
Replying To countyman2022:  "[quote=Formertownie:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "It's true that some rules are not the same across all counties. This is because counties are allowed set their own bye-laws in certain areas - e.g. how they operate club catchment areas ("the parish rule"), transfers within the county, and underage grades (i.e. U13/15/17 or U14/16/18). But that doesn't make any county's rules or bye-laws any less valid.

Can assure you that the people who sit on Disciplinary and Hearings Committees do indeed know the rules. I've sat on one of those committees in the past, and I've also been on the other side of them when representing my club in appeals.

The vast majority of appeals are unsuccessful, precisely because the rules are indeed clear and set in stone. However, you almost never hear about these ones, and they certainly don't get widespread attention unless they're particularly high profile.

Successful appeals are normally successful on foot of procedural matters rather than anomalies or loopholes in the rules themselves. For example, a referee sends somebody off and cites him for striking with the hurl. The Disciplinary Committee hands down the mandatory two-match suspension. The club lodges an appeal, produces video evidence, and convinces the Hearings Committee that the appropriate offence was actually striking with the hurl with minimum force. The two-match suspension is overturned and the lesser mandatory suspension of just one match is applied instead.

Sometimes there are successful appeals because a county's bye-laws haven't been properly written or properly introduced. However, there hasn't been a case like this in Wexford for several years now.

Can't think offhand of an example of somebody who's suspended from local championship still being allowed to play in Leinster championship - do you have one in mind?

Rule Book is clear that promotion/relegation play-offs are separate competitions, and this applies nationally. I'm honestly not sure of the reason why, but I suspect it's to allow for a situation where play-offs also include round-robin games. If they were the same competitions, then scoring difference etc. from the group games of the main stage of the championship would have to be carried over into the play-offs, and could severely distort things.

Finally, yes, sometimes "legal eagles" get involved and successfully argue that there's a loophole in a rule, or that it doesn't properly cover off a situation in the way intended. But remember they do this in actual legal settings all the time too, from the District Court right up to the Supreme Court. If they can pick holes in laws of the land that are written by professional drafters, it's not surprising they can sometimes pick holes in certain GAA rules too.

Anyway, maybe that's enough about rules. If you ever do want a look at the official Rule Book yourself, all three parts of it are here: https://www.gaa.ie/the-gaa/rules-regulations/
link"
Thank you clears up a lot
Gorey player few years back in leinster .
Don't like mentioning names.
I ll save that Web address for future reference .
Think most times people accept their punishment as its most likely deserved .
Unless it is felt harsh/based on lies, exaggeration of facts etc . or player crucial for next game/games and depending on how far or resources at the disposal what they do . Can't they find that loophole .
As I said most times deserved and accepted"
You mean Ballygarret player?"]Oohhh harsh , thiugh it was only townies that moved and held grudges"]Formertownie, having a go at townies for holding grudges,ha

Lockerroomboy (Wexford) - Posts: 425 - 25/10/2023 17:40:44    2510314

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Replying To WexMurph:  "So a relegation final is a different competition but the Leinster championship isn't? Hard to get your head around all these rules"
Yeah, it's a quare one all right. :)

Leinster Club Championship is indeed a new competition. But simplest way of explaining it is that if one competition follows on from another and refers to the same year (e.g. provincial club championship 2023 follows on from success in county championship 2023), then suspensions carry over from one to the next.

You might assume then that this would apply to a relegation play-off as well, but in fact it doesn't. That's because a relegation final 2023 is technically viewed as a qualification competition for the 2024 championship, rather than deciding anything to do with the 2023 one, as the teams involved are already out of the running for 2023.

I think myself that the rule should be different in this case, and that if you're sent off in the way Joe Coleman was a couple of years ago (just using him as an example - am not picking on him!), then you should be suspended for the relegation final anyway.

Would ask you all to remember that just because I tend to know the rules and do my best to explain them doesn't mean I agree with all of them!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2148 - 25/10/2023 21:27:49    2510340

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Just seen a tweet by seamus Byrne
Where gorey central school winning a gaa cup for first time thats greatt for football in general.
Then I read he's been gpo for tara rocks .
And being coaching full school for couple years 1 day a week .
If thise kids decide to join a club as would be the objective of gpo do they sign up for tara tocks or kilanerin or would naomh eanna be the club of choice . If that choice is naomh eanna due to travel to kilaerin (ballinstrw gaels) for training matches etc .
Is the money spent on gpo being wasted . Or are ballinstraw gaels financing it between them .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 151 - 26/10/2023 08:22:51    2510355

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yeah, it's a quare one all right. :)

Leinster Club Championship is indeed a new competition. But simplest way of explaining it is that if one competition follows on from another and refers to the same year (e.g. provincial club championship 2023 follows on from success in county championship 2023), then suspensions carry over from one to the next.

You might assume then that this would apply to a relegation play-off as well, but in fact it doesn't. That's because a relegation final 2023 is technically viewed as a qualification competition for the 2024 championship, rather than deciding anything to do with the 2023 one, as the teams involved are already out of the running for 2023.

I think myself that the rule should be different in this case, and that if you're sent off in the way Joe Coleman was a couple of years ago (just using him as an example - am not picking on him!), then you should be suspended for the relegation final anyway.

Would ask you all to remember that just because I tend to know the rules and do my best to explain them doesn't mean I agree with all of them!"
:-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11215 - 26/10/2023 09:30:04    2510357

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Just seen a tweet by seamus Byrne
Where gorey central school winning a gaa cup for first time thats greatt for football in general.
Then I read he's been gpo for tara rocks .
And being coaching full school for couple years 1 day a week .
If thise kids decide to join a club as would be the objective of gpo do they sign up for tara tocks or kilanerin or would naomh eanna be the club of choice . If that choice is naomh eanna due to travel to kilaerin (ballinstrw gaels) for training matches etc .
Is the money spent on gpo being wasted . Or are ballinstraw gaels financing it between them ."
Tara Rocks and Gorey are allowed to take in players from Gorey parish. Kilanerin aren't. As it is all those Gorey Community School lads are likely already with a club at the age they are , some are with Gorey I'd be guessing, but I'd assume some lads from neighbouring parishes would be going to secondary school there too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11215 - 26/10/2023 09:33:32    2510359

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Just seen a tweet by seamus Byrne
Where gorey central school winning a gaa cup for first time thats greatt for football in general.
Then I read he's been gpo for tara rocks .
And being coaching full school for couple years 1 day a week .
If thise kids decide to join a club as would be the objective of gpo do they sign up for tara tocks or kilanerin or would naomh eanna be the club of choice . If that choice is naomh eanna due to travel to kilaerin (ballinstrw gaels) for training matches etc .
Is the money spent on gpo being wasted . Or are ballinstraw gaels financing it between them ."
Don't think he is a GPO with the county anymore and these kids should play for the club of the parish where they live, Gorey, Pats etc.

grassroots01 (Wexford) - Posts: 162 - 26/10/2023 09:46:16    2510363

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "@formertownie -
if by "Gorey player going back a few years", you mean Cathal Dunbar in 2018, then I'm afraid you've got that one wrong as well.

He was sent off in the county semi-final for interfering with an opponent's helmet, and was handed the mandatory one-match ban. Gorey appealed but lost their appeal at both county and provincial level, before going all the way to the DRA in Croke Park on the Saturday night.

Things there ended up focusing on how the referee hadn't included the words "with intent" in his report, to properly reflect the rule that he was sent off under. It was decided to seek clarification from the referee (i.e. have him send in a new report), as is permitted in such circumstances, and to have another hearing then. However, this was Saturday night, and the county final was fixed for Sunday afternoon, so there was no way this was all going to happen before then, and the suspension then couldn't stand in the meantime.

Wexford CCC then had the choice of postponing the county final until the matter was resolved, or letting it go ahead with Dunbar allowed to play. Rightly or wrongly, they let it go ahead, Dunbar scored four points, and Gorey won by four.

The new hearing then took place the following week. It found that all was in order with the sending off, the updated referee's report, and the one-match ban. Dunbar served his suspension in the first round of the Leinster Championship instead.

It wasn't a case of somebody being allowed play in Leinster while suspended for Wexford Club Championship."
Well explained - farce of a situation and he basically won the game for Gorey. The report and other reports are available on the DRA website.

grassroots01 (Wexford) - Posts: 162 - 26/10/2023 09:51:23    2510364

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Just seen a tweet by seamus Byrne
Where gorey central school winning a gaa cup for first time thats greatt for football in general.
Then I read he's been gpo for tara rocks .
And being coaching full school for couple years 1 day a week .
If thise kids decide to join a club as would be the objective of gpo do they sign up for tara tocks or kilanerin or would naomh eanna be the club of choice . If that choice is naomh eanna due to travel to kilaerin (ballinstrw gaels) for training matches etc .
Is the money spent on gpo being wasted . Or are ballinstraw gaels financing it between them ."
A friend of mine is teaching up in Gorey Central. She tells me that there's been a change in recent years in terns if sporting alignment. Previously the school would have had a tendency towards rugby, hockey etc.
She also tells me that a very large percentage of the student population are from the outlying areas around Gorey, and not from the town itself. So any sporting benefit from the school would be spread among the district clubs, (eg.St Pats, castletown, ballygarret etc) moreso than the town clubs.

Yellaman (Wexford) - Posts: 78 - 26/10/2023 10:27:19    2510373

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Replying To Yellaman:  "A friend of mine is teaching up in Gorey Central. She tells me that there's been a change in recent years in terns if sporting alignment. Previously the school would have had a tendency towards rugby, hockey etc.
She also tells me that a very large percentage of the student population are from the outlying areas around Gorey, and not from the town itself. So any sporting benefit from the school would be spread among the district clubs, (eg.St Pats, castletown, ballygarret etc) moreso than the town clubs."
That's great news for the county going forwards. Hopefully the dormitory areas are waking up.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11215 - 26/10/2023 11:12:33    2510386

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Replying To Viking66:  "Tara Rocks and Gorey are allowed to take in players from Gorey parish. Kilanerin aren't. As it is all those Gorey Community School lads are likely already with a club at the age they are , some are with Gorey I'd be guessing, but I'd assume some lads from neighbouring parishes would be going to secondary school there too."
I would understand if it was hurling possibly with tara rocks . The club was struggling thus the merger all be it temporary.
It cost lot of money to have gpo in a club and just trying understand the reasoning behind the football based training for a hurling club abd then possibly getting very few to play in the club .. Unless they have good financial backing and hope to just get kids in and then train them for hurling too. surely they would benefit more from ciaching hurling in that school . For all I know maybe he does too . I would have thought football would have benefited the other team in the merger more .
Again would nt be hugely familiar with dispersion of pupils .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 151 - 26/10/2023 11:16:19    2510387

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Replying To Viking66:  "Tara Rocks and Gorey are allowed to take in players from Gorey parish. Kilanerin aren't. As it is all those Gorey Community School lads are likely already with a club at the age they are , some are with Gorey I'd be guessing, but I'd assume some lads from neighbouring parishes would be going to secondary school there too."
Just to clarify that he's talking about Gorey Central School, not Gorey Community School. Gorey Central School is the Primary School that was traditionally Church of Ireland. It's situated behind the church itself, more or less opposite the Garda Station.

Also, for as long the Tara Rocks/Kilanerin arrangement remains in place, Kilanerin are in fact allowed to take in players from Gorey parish. Anybody in Gorey parish who chooses to join Tara Rocks instead of Naomh Éanna (or who transfers to them from Naomh Éanna) could then play football for Kilanerin if they're still a member of Tara Rocks when they reach the adult grades.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2148 - 26/10/2023 11:17:26    2510388

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Just to clarify that he's talking about Gorey Central School, not Gorey Community School. Gorey Central School is the Primary School that was traditionally Church of Ireland. It's situated behind the church itself, more or less opposite the Garda Station.

Also, for as long the Tara Rocks/Kilanerin arrangement remains in place, Kilanerin are in fact allowed to take in players from Gorey parish. Anybody in Gorey parish who chooses to join Tara Rocks instead of Naomh Éanna (or who transfers to them from Naomh Éanna) could then play football for Kilanerin if they're still a member of Tara Rocks when they reach the adult grades."
Yes national school . Find it hard to understand why a hurling club would train football when it most likely would benefit another team especially if the arrangement is temporary
. Well unless the plan is a more permanent merger that has nt been put forward yet .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 151 - 26/10/2023 11:30:17    2510391

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The amalgamation has benefits for Kilanerin so its opens the door for easier access to more players in Gorey

lefty (Wexford) - Posts: 184 - 26/10/2023 11:34:10    2510393

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Just to clarify that he's talking about Gorey Central School, not Gorey Community School. Gorey Central School is the Primary School that was traditionally Church of Ireland. It's situated behind the church itself, more or less opposite the Garda Station.

Also, for as long the Tara Rocks/Kilanerin arrangement remains in place, Kilanerin are in fact allowed to take in players from Gorey parish. Anybody in Gorey parish who chooses to join Tara Rocks instead of Naomh Éanna (or who transfers to them from Naomh Éanna) could then play football for Kilanerin if they're still a member of Tara Rocks when they reach the adult grades."
Sorry Pikeman slip of the finger! I'm doing wiring today and it's melting my head.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11215 - 26/10/2023 12:06:28    2510413

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Replying To lefty:  "The amalgamation has benefits for Kilanerin so its opens the door for easier access to more players in Gorey"
Yes that's what I thiught. But definitely said gpo from Tara rocks coaching is football for 4years in the school . 1 full day a week all classes surely mor benefit to kilanerin than Tara rocks or am I wrong i thinking this .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 151 - 26/10/2023 13:47:54    2510452

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Yes that's what I thiught. But definitely said gpo from Tara rocks coaching is football for 4years in the school . 1 full day a week all classes surely mor benefit to kilanerin than Tara rocks or am I wrong i thinking this ."
I don't think you are wrong. How exactly does a GPO coaching football benefit a hurling only club? Are you sure that is what is happening? Or does he alternate between football and hurling?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11215 - 26/10/2023 15:02:40    2510480

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Replying To Viking66:  "I don't think you are wrong. How exactly does a GPO coaching football benefit a hurling only club? Are you sure that is what is happening? Or does he alternate between football and hurling?"
Check it on twitter seamus Byrne see for yourself

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 151 - 26/10/2023 16:30:11    2510496

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Replying To Viking66:  "I don't think you are wrong. How exactly does a GPO coaching football benefit a hurling only club? Are you sure that is what is happening? Or does he alternate between football and hurling?"
Not saying he s doing anything wrong in fact he's doing so much right by the sound of it .
Its great to see new schools doing well and the more playing the games the better

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 151 - 26/10/2023 16:33:11    2510498

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