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Promotion Of Our Games

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "So you don't think children are influenced by what they see on TV? Primary school teachers have already remarked on how the Dublin win went largely under the radar for many children who would be otherwise engaged when final is on as they come back to school after holidays."
Barney, I'm posting this in the hope that you might actually questions sometime, instead of deflecting or looking for some way out of it -

1 - How many children have given up gaelic games because there are no inter-county matches during August & September?
2 - When, where and how did these primary school teachers make these remarks?
3 - How would teachers even know the level of interest the children had in the final in July anyway, unless they (the teachers) called to the home of every child at the time to see if they were watching it, and celebrating the victory?
4 - Even if it is the case, do you accept it might be just a Dublin issue? If Kerry had won, it would hardly have gone 'under the radar' there. And let's say Mayo sometime won an All-Ireland Football title in July....there wouldn't be a schoolchild in the county who wouldn't know about it.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2146 - 25/09/2023 11:56:59    2505577

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There is no doubt that the split season is going to a have a negative impact on playing numbers in the years ahead. Even though it is only 2 months since the All Irelands it feels much longer. There has been very little coverage of any club matches on TV and most people have little interest in these games. Rugby & soccer dominate the TV and Media at the moment. Trying to attract kids from non GAA backgrounds is very difficult now where as in contrast if the All Ireland's were on in Sept there would be discussion, talk on the match in schools which all feeds into a child's interest in sport.

journeyman (Limerick) - Posts: 104 - 25/09/2023 15:19:50    2505651

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Replying To journeyman:  "There is no doubt that the split season is going to a have a negative impact on playing numbers in the years ahead. Even though it is only 2 months since the All Irelands it feels much longer. There has been very little coverage of any club matches on TV and most people have little interest in these games. Rugby & soccer dominate the TV and Media at the moment. Trying to attract kids from non GAA backgrounds is very difficult now where as in contrast if the All Ireland's were on in Sept there would be discussion, talk on the match in schools which all feeds into a child's interest in sport."
Okay, let's tease that one out....

Would it be reasonable to now set aside the best interests of many thousands of people who are very definitely from GAA backgrounds (i.e. club players right across the country), for the sake of young children from non-GAA backgrounds who might never take up the sports anyway, even if the All-Ireland Finals returned to being on TV in September?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2146 - 25/09/2023 16:06:54    2505669

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Replying To journeyman:  "There is no doubt that the split season is going to a have a negative impact on playing numbers in the years ahead. Even though it is only 2 months since the All Irelands it feels much longer. There has been very little coverage of any club matches on TV and most people have little interest in these games. Rugby & soccer dominate the TV and Media at the moment. Trying to attract kids from non GAA backgrounds is very difficult now where as in contrast if the All Ireland's were on in Sept there would be discussion, talk on the match in schools which all feeds into a child's interest in sport."
Most children don't take up GAA because they've seen a few games on television. If The Sunday Game and Up for the Match is supposed to get them interested they need to try something for the children of this, the 21st Century They'll do it because their mates are doing it, because they're being encouraged to do so in school, encouraged by their parents, grandparents. And they'll stick at it if they're welcomed into clubs and their parents are welcomed. Many of them try it for the first time on Cúl Camps which are well marketed by Kellogs. But I think the GAA top brass should use a lot more to get some great national media exposure from Cul Camps. Would we hear or see much about club games if there were no AIB ads talking about it on TV? This media exposure being missed out is a bit of a myth for me. When we had finals in September the top brass never really exploited any exposure too well and they still don't. Compare to what a club and it's volunteers will do now if they've a big game or event coming up? They'll have it well publicised, members contacted on Whatsapp , Facebook etc, looking for spot prizes, sell tickets to raise funds. Because they need to to survive. Top brass in GAA show very little initiative in promoting the GAA. As far as I know there's only one national podcast talking about club championship. A few games on TV but very little national coverage besides. The top brass are primarily bothered about keeping the stronger counties strong, weaker counties weak and more games for attendance and TV revenue. They'll make little effort into reducing ticket prices into games to get a better atmosphere there, happy to see less than 50K in Croke Park for big games because to try and get a few more in is hassle. But they'll take a concert promoter's cash and rearrange fixtures for an Ed Sheeran gig or more. A club would try and max out the attendance for a big game, charge for parking, sell coffee and a few buns because they need the money. But the top brass in GAA pretend they give a damn about clubs and marketing, they're getting paid regardless. If we want the GAA promoted nationally they should get a few grassroots volunteers around the table with the top lads and give them some ideas and lessons on what clubs need to do to survive.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7254 - 25/09/2023 17:02:30    2505684

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Replying To NorthWestern:  "Have you been to a club rugby game in recent years. Club rugby is dead at this point. The club's are underage crèches and feeders for provincial academies. The parish club structure is what has made the GAA the basis of many communities in Ireland. The rugby model is very different and is focused on an elite professional structure."
Your making a point for me. Thanks! With rugby focused on professionalism and 4 provinces, where is the threat to the GAA? The main rugby players are going through private schools.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7698 - 25/09/2023 18:37:49    2505696

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It's a pity the Railway Cup has faded away. Provincial representation is the most the GAA can offer when there is no meaningful national representation.
If the GAA, GPA and TG4 were in agreement to resurrect the Railway Cup, it could be contested in a 4 team group round robin in November. You'd want the GAA obviously to support it but buy in from the GPA would be crucial for having players on board. TG4 then for broadcasting the games.
The provincial champions could host the games. Ulster in Derry, Leinster in Parnell Park, Munster in Austin Stacks Park and Connacht in Galway.
Players from county champions will be unavailable because of provincial club championships but it shouldn't be a showstopper.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7698 - 25/09/2023 18:46:05    2505698

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Most children don't take up GAA because they've seen a few games on television. If The Sunday Game and Up for the Match is supposed to get them interested they need to try something for the children of this, the 21st Century They'll do it because their mates are doing it, because they're being encouraged to do so in school, encouraged by their parents, grandparents. And they'll stick at it if they're welcomed into clubs and their parents are welcomed. Many of them try it for the first time on Cúl Camps which are well marketed by Kellogs. But I think the GAA top brass should use a lot more to get some great national media exposure from Cul Camps. Would we hear or see much about club games if there were no AIB ads talking about it on TV? This media exposure being missed out is a bit of a myth for me. When we had finals in September the top brass never really exploited any exposure too well and they still don't. Compare to what a club and it's volunteers will do now if they've a big game or event coming up? They'll have it well publicised, members contacted on Whatsapp , Facebook etc, looking for spot prizes, sell tickets to raise funds. Because they need to to survive. Top brass in GAA show very little initiative in promoting the GAA. As far as I know there's only one national podcast talking about club championship. A few games on TV but very little national coverage besides. The top brass are primarily bothered about keeping the stronger counties strong, weaker counties weak and more games for attendance and TV revenue. They'll make little effort into reducing ticket prices into games to get a better atmosphere there, happy to see less than 50K in Croke Park for big games because to try and get a few more in is hassle. But they'll take a concert promoter's cash and rearrange fixtures for an Ed Sheeran gig or more. A club would try and max out the attendance for a big game, charge for parking, sell coffee and a few buns because they need the money. But the top brass in GAA pretend they give a damn about clubs and marketing, they're getting paid regardless. If we want the GAA promoted nationally they should get a few grassroots volunteers around the table with the top lads and give them some ideas and lessons on what clubs need to do to survive."
Could you edit post of green and red to have paragraphs to make it easier to read.

Not sure i agree with much of your post.

But media definitely helps attract more people to play especially kids.
How much more can GAA "top brass" really get from the cul camps in terms of promotion etc?

You cant compare marketing strategy of a club to the national organisation as a whole. completely different aims/targets and strategies to be employed by each.

Reducing prices by how much will get moe people in and just reducing prices wont get a better atmosphere to games unless you make other changes as well. Just reducing ticket prices will see less income made and the same type of atmosphere at games.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3449 - 25/09/2023 18:55:34    2505700

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Most children don't take up GAA because they've seen a few games on television. If The Sunday Game and Up for the Match is supposed to get them interested they need to try something for the children of this, the 21st Century They'll do it because their mates are doing it, because they're being encouraged to do so in school, encouraged by their parents, grandparents. And they'll stick at it if they're welcomed into clubs and their parents are welcomed. Many of them try it for the first time on Cúl Camps which are well marketed by Kellogs. But I think the GAA top brass should use a lot more to get some great national media exposure from Cul Camps. Would we hear or see much about club games if there were no AIB ads talking about it on TV? This media exposure being missed out is a bit of a myth for me. When we had finals in September the top brass never really exploited any exposure too well and they still don't. Compare to what a club and it's volunteers will do now if they've a big game or event coming up? They'll have it well publicised, members contacted on Whatsapp , Facebook etc, looking for spot prizes, sell tickets to raise funds. Because they need to to survive. Top brass in GAA show very little initiative in promoting the GAA. As far as I know there's only one national podcast talking about club championship. A few games on TV but very little national coverage besides. The top brass are primarily bothered about keeping the stronger counties strong, weaker counties weak and more games for attendance and TV revenue. They'll make little effort into reducing ticket prices into games to get a better atmosphere there, happy to see less than 50K in Croke Park for big games because to try and get a few more in is hassle. But they'll take a concert promoter's cash and rearrange fixtures for an Ed Sheeran gig or more. A club would try and max out the attendance for a big game, charge for parking, sell coffee and a few buns because they need the money. But the top brass in GAA pretend they give a damn about clubs and marketing, they're getting paid regardless. If we want the GAA promoted nationally they should get a few grassroots volunteers around the table with the top lads and give them some ideas and lessons on what clubs need to do to survive."
Paragraphs..... make it easier to read....


Plenty of kids do take up GAA because of what seen on tv especially now with far more internationals etc who wont have played GAA as kids themselves

GAA dont need or want to put moe media exposure on kids summer camps.
What exactly would you want the GAA to do with cul camps exactly.

How much national media interest is there in many individual club GAA games?
You cant compare GAA hq and their media policy/practices with those of individual clubs.

Reducing ticket prices wont improve atmosphere. can you try explain how just reducing ticket prices by a fiver/tenner would improve atmosphere at a game?

Your idea about "grassroots volunteers" mixing with the commercial staff in hq is delusional


This prob wont be uploaded.... why....

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3449 - 25/09/2023 19:33:41    2505707

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Most children don't take up GAA because they've seen a few games on television. If The Sunday Game and Up for the Match is supposed to get them interested they need to try something for the children of this, the 21st Century They'll do it because their mates are doing it, because they're being encouraged to do so in school, encouraged by their parents, grandparents. And they'll stick at it if they're welcomed into clubs and their parents are welcomed. Many of them try it for the first time on Cúl Camps which are well marketed by Kellogs. But I think the GAA top brass should use a lot more to get some great national media exposure from Cul Camps. Would we hear or see much about club games if there were no AIB ads talking about it on TV? This media exposure being missed out is a bit of a myth for me. When we had finals in September the top brass never really exploited any exposure too well and they still don't. Compare to what a club and it's volunteers will do now if they've a big game or event coming up? They'll have it well publicised, members contacted on Whatsapp , Facebook etc, looking for spot prizes, sell tickets to raise funds. Because they need to to survive. Top brass in GAA show very little initiative in promoting the GAA. As far as I know there's only one national podcast talking about club championship. A few games on TV but very little national coverage besides. The top brass are primarily bothered about keeping the stronger counties strong, weaker counties weak and more games for attendance and TV revenue. They'll make little effort into reducing ticket prices into games to get a better atmosphere there, happy to see less than 50K in Croke Park for big games because to try and get a few more in is hassle. But they'll take a concert promoter's cash and rearrange fixtures for an Ed Sheeran gig or more. A club would try and max out the attendance for a big game, charge for parking, sell coffee and a few buns because they need the money. But the top brass in GAA pretend they give a damn about clubs and marketing, they're getting paid regardless. If we want the GAA promoted nationally they should get a few grassroots volunteers around the table with the top lads and give them some ideas and lessons on what clubs need to do to survive."
can this post be edited to make it easier to read.... paragraphs

There is plenty who do only start GAA and any other number of sports because they see it on tv especially those kids whos parents never played/arent irish etc.

What more can the GAA do exactly about cul camps? What more do you think the GAA should change about its promotion of these camps?

You cant compare the marketing the GAA does on a national scale with what a club does because they are nothing alike. complete macro v micro....

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3449 - 25/09/2023 21:03:24    2505720

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Some interesting points, but the fundementals of the GAA setup is different from other sports. GAA games are not an international sport so it hasnt got that component. Everything goes in cycles, people may have missed on Sat afternoon before Ireland v SA rugby epic, 39k turned up to watch a natilnal Irish ladies soccer match in Aviva, a full house to watch a pretty poor mens game recently. Its participation that keeps a game alive, oarticipation in soccer is still highest. Yet we have a small national league. I believe it will not be too long before league of Ireland womens games will have more watching the live club scene than the mens. The power of TV is greatly exaggerated in relation to its effect on participation. I have watched a handful of truly great Rugby matches the vast majority are facile hammerings of epic proportions. Its actually the same in all sports, in GAA how many counties can realistically win All Irelands? In Soccer its the same at all levels 2/3 teams dominate, same in Rugby. GAA is in a far healthier place than most. Local clubs are the life blood, its same in Dublin as in counties. What is remarkable is the amount of sports that are competing in Ireland. The super clubs in Dublin still have huge numbers coming in, soccer pitches are full with kids playing, long may it continue. Split season is vital for survival of GAA.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4888 - 25/09/2023 23:07:50    2505732

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Okay, let's tease that one out....

Would it be reasonable to now set aside the best interests of many thousands of people who are very definitely from GAA backgrounds (i.e. club players right across the country), for the sake of young children from non-GAA backgrounds who might never take up the sports anyway, even if the All-Ireland Finals returned to being on TV in September?"
It's not just about the All Ireland's being played in September although this does create a great promotional opportunity for the GAA for the participating counties but more about removing 2 months of TV and media coverage compared the old system. I have often read in sport autobiographies, interviews of sport stars say "We were sports mad as kids, whatever was on TV at the time we'd be playing in the back garden, 6 Nations - Rugby, World Cup - Soccer, Wimbledon - Tennis, GAA Championship - Hurling & Gaelic Football. Kids are definitely influenced by whats on TV. And is the split season really in the best interest of the club player? In Limerick for example after 7 weeks of championship alot of clubs after last weekend are now finished for the year as they did not make the knockout stages. Seems to be a very short time to be playing meaningful games.

journeyman (Limerick) - Posts: 104 - 26/09/2023 10:55:05    2505761

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Replying To journeyman:  "It's not just about the All Ireland's being played in September although this does create a great promotional opportunity for the GAA for the participating counties but more about removing 2 months of TV and media coverage compared the old system. I have often read in sport autobiographies, interviews of sport stars say "We were sports mad as kids, whatever was on TV at the time we'd be playing in the back garden, 6 Nations - Rugby, World Cup - Soccer, Wimbledon - Tennis, GAA Championship - Hurling & Gaelic Football. Kids are definitely influenced by whats on TV. And is the split season really in the best interest of the club player? In Limerick for example after 7 weeks of championship alot of clubs after last weekend are now finished for the year as they did not make the knockout stages. Seems to be a very short time to be playing meaningful games."
Valid points, and even as a child myself, I used to be out playing whatever was on TV at the time - rugby during what was then the Five Nations, tennis during the Wimbledon fortnight, even an attempt at American Football when RTE used to show weekly highlights during the mid-1980s.

But you don't actually answer the question. Would it be reasonable to change the whole club season again, just so some children might go out for a kickabout or a puckabout after watching a big football or hurling match on TV in August or September?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2146 - 26/09/2023 11:25:29    2505774

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Most children don't take up GAA because they've seen a few games on television. If The Sunday Game and Up for the Match is supposed to get them interested they need to try something for the children of this, the 21st Century They'll do it because their mates are doing it, because they're being encouraged to do so in school, encouraged by their parents, grandparents. And they'll stick at it if they're welcomed into clubs and their parents are welcomed. Many of them try it for the first time on Cúl Camps which are well marketed by Kellogs. But I think the GAA top brass should use a lot more to get some great national media exposure from Cul Camps. Would we hear or see much about club games if there were no AIB ads talking about it on TV? This media exposure being missed out is a bit of a myth for me. When we had finals in September the top brass never really exploited any exposure too well and they still don't. Compare to what a club and it's volunteers will do now if they've a big game or event coming up? They'll have it well publicised, members contacted on Whatsapp , Facebook etc, looking for spot prizes, sell tickets to raise funds. Because they need to to survive. Top brass in GAA show very little initiative in promoting the GAA. As far as I know there's only one national podcast talking about club championship. A few games on TV but very little national coverage besides. The top brass are primarily bothered about keeping the stronger counties strong, weaker counties weak and more games for attendance and TV revenue. They'll make little effort into reducing ticket prices into games to get a better atmosphere there, happy to see less than 50K in Croke Park for big games because to try and get a few more in is hassle. But they'll take a concert promoter's cash and rearrange fixtures for an Ed Sheeran gig or more. A club would try and max out the attendance for a big game, charge for parking, sell coffee and a few buns because they need the money. But the top brass in GAA pretend they give a damn about clubs and marketing, they're getting paid regardless. If we want the GAA promoted nationally they should get a few grassroots volunteers around the table with the top lads and give them some ideas and lessons on what clubs need to do to survive."
Evidently there is nothing in the Sunday game to attract viewers outside of div,1 or 2 to watch the show I think that is self-explanatory along with the fact that the show is largely boring and repetitive, Up for the Match, ditto.

The encouragement that kid's get in school today is nothing like the encouragement they got up to 20 years ago, lots of parents don't encourage their kid's they leave it to themselves to decide the sport that suits them.

The changes that has happened within the association should never have been allowed to happen, the most recent being the split season, as a previous poster said we were sold a pup, sadly that decision will not be reversed. The TC competition was badly thought out and rushed in, in no way can I see it improving the standard of football in the very weak counties, one would have to be born into a weak county to understand the word weak as opposed to the word strong. We all know that without weak counties there wouldn't be strong counties, in my view it is in the interest of the administration in Croke Park to have several weak counties for their system to work and for that reason it is not coming across as an all-inclusive organization.

By coincidence or otherwise the split season allows Croke Park to be available to host events and there are some other than concerts.

If we want the gaa to be promoted nationally, it must be seen as an all inclusive effort.

PS Good post, but you never mentioned about the gap that is widening between the strong and weak counties.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2904 - 26/09/2023 11:54:45    2505792

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Replying To NorthWestern:  "Have you been to a club rugby game in recent years. Club rugby is dead at this point. The club's are underage crèches and feeders for provincial academies. The parish club structure is what has made the GAA the basis of many communities in Ireland. The rugby model is very different and is focused on an elite professional structure."
Yeah, I remember back in the day when the likes of Clontarf used to bring thousands to games. Now they bring a handful. Club rugby is non existant.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1078 - 26/09/2023 13:29:31    2505826

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Attendance at club hurling games in Cork is very poor. In 1955 and 1977 cork county finals attendances were 31,000 and 35,000 respectively. Recent attendances are nowhere near that, and Gaelic football attendances have similarly waned.

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 189 - 26/09/2023 13:30:17    2505827

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Replying To galwayford:  "Great night Saturday for the sport of Rugby in Ireland. A massive tv audience and massive publicity. It could be a tipping point for the development of Rugby in Ireland. We are the rugby nation now. Along with New Zealand. GAA and Irish football will have to get used to being the minority sports now."
Depends on your viewpoint. I looked at the physio and doctor being on after every passage of play and thanked the good man in heaven my sons gave up the game.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1078 - 26/09/2023 13:31:20    2505829

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Okay, let's tease that one out....

Would it be reasonable to now set aside the best interests of many thousands of people who are very definitely from GAA backgrounds (i.e. club players right across the country), for the sake of young children from non-GAA backgrounds who might never take up the sports anyway, even if the All-Ireland Finals returned to being on TV in September?"
It doesn't need to be one or the other. There was a thread created here months back by some poster who had designated club weeks built in to every month of the year and All-Ireland final played in September or early October if I remember correctly.
They can exist together if everybody wants them to. The question is, does anybody want them to or does everybody want their own piece of the pie and that is it? Something has to give.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1078 - 26/09/2023 13:34:43    2505833

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Depends on your viewpoint. I looked at the physio and doctor being on after every passage of play and thanked the good man in heaven my sons gave up the game."
Hahaaha
You cant compare the two and the stats around injuries dont back up that
physios/docs arent at and dont need to come on at a lower level near the rate they do at pro games

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3449 - 26/09/2023 14:35:24    2505853

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "It doesn't need to be one or the other. There was a thread created here months back by some poster who had designated club weeks built in to every month of the year and All-Ireland final played in September or early October if I remember correctly.
They can exist together if everybody wants them to. The question is, does anybody want them to or does everybody want their own piece of the pie and that is it? Something has to give."
But even that would involve a re-drawing of the club season, just to get the All-Ireland Finals back to September, apparently just so certain people can watch hurling or football on the telly then, instead of soccer or rugby.

The chances of there being designated 'club weeks' or 'club fortnights' built into the inter-county season are absolutely negligible, for many many reasons which I could outline here, but for how the post would become far longer than even some of the ones I already write! But I'll still do so in a future post if you or anybody else wants me to.

The thing that will have to give is that those who continue to complain about the All-Ireland Finals no longer being in September will have to accept that's the way it is now, and further complaints are pointless.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2146 - 26/09/2023 14:49:01    2505855

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Unfortunately it will be in 10 years time when you see smaller playing numbers and rural clubs forced to amalgamate that you will see the true impact of the split season. It may suit club players now but what about the club coaches\volunteers struggling to put underage teams out. Some of these club players will be volunteers in the future so will they have the same view. Certainty around fixtures and being able to plan holidays is being quoted as a advantage of the split season but surely there is a way to allow this.

journeyman (Limerick) - Posts: 104 - 26/09/2023 15:19:51    2505864

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