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As far as I can see, there are very few counties who have or will finish up their senior, never mind the lower grade, championships, significantly earlier than pre split season era.

Some will be even worse than usual and these tend to be ones where county teams were knocked out in May!

Meanwhile the flagships of the GAA are in dry dock while out rivals dominate the airways. What a stupid idea it was, and we'll pay for it dearly,

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 17/09/2023 19:32:45    2504528

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "As far as I can see, there are very few counties who have or will finish up their senior, never mind the lower grade, championships, significantly earlier than pre split season era.

Some will be even worse than usual and these tend to be ones where county teams were knocked out in May!

Meanwhile the flagships of the GAA are in dry dock while out rivals dominate the airways. What a stupid idea it was, and we'll pay for it dearly,"
Inclined to agree with you. Gone are the days aswell of driving past primary schools being decked out in county colours for the semi and finals. Children having wear your county colour days and cups turning up to schools after finals. Finals are played now when half the country are in foreign lands on holidays. It's not the same anymore and club season is a long way from being over having championship and playoffs still to play.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1986 - 17/09/2023 21:41:43    2504553

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "As far as I can see, there are very few counties who have or will finish up their senior, never mind the lower grade, championships, significantly earlier than pre split season era.

Some will be even worse than usual and these tend to be ones where county teams were knocked out in May!

Meanwhile the flagships of the GAA are in dry dock while out rivals dominate the airways. What a stupid idea it was, and we'll pay for it dearly,"
But it wasn't about getting club championships finished earlier than before. It was about providing certainty on when the club championships would be played. There's a big difference.

Maybe in Dublin, you're gone so used to being involved in the latter stages of the All-Ireland that you're gone used to the knock-on effect it has on the club championship, and don't understand the situation in other counties.

Take Galway football, for example. If you were a club player there, and if the All-Ireland Final dates hadn't been brought forward to July, you'd never know early in any given year when you'd be in club championship action.

One year, Galway might be out of the inter-county championship by the end of June, and club championship might start in the second half of July.

Another year (like last year), Galway might go through all the way to the All-Ireland Final on the third Sunday of September, and therefore the club championship wouldn't get going in earnest until probably the first weekend of October. Or if they were running it like they currently do (three groups of six in their Senior Football Championship), you might get one or two early rounds sandwiched in between inter-county fixtures, but you'd never know until relatively short notice whether or not you had a club championship match on any given weekend.

Much the same thing would apply to a club hurler in a county like Waterford or Tipperary. In the 'old way' of doing things, your county team could be out of the championship by early July, or could go all the way through to an All-Ireland Final in September. A club hurler would never know in June whether or not he could 'safely' book a weekend away in July or August.

Overall, if or when there's concrete evidence that gaelic games are suffering in terms of things like numbers, support, etc., as a direct consequence of moving the All-Ireland Finals to July rather than other factors such as demographics, then I'd take concerns like yours seriously.

But until then, I'll regard them as concerns mainly held only by armchair supporters and big day bandwagon people, rather than people with the best interests of all players at heart.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2150 - 18/09/2023 09:08:16    2504568

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The big losers of this will be the likes of Dublin, Wicklow, Louth and to a lesser extent Kildare. Huge competition from soccer and rugby in these areas. It's crazy to say but I actually think Dublin GAA will be in trouble again in next 15/20 years. The country migration into dublin has now ceased abd I can't see many from Leitrim, Mayo etc settling in dublin like they did in 80s,90s and 00s. That's what drive a lot of dublin GAA success, in local clubs etc. Anecdotal evidence of a lot more of these country people buying houses in Kildare and Meath or being able to work from home . GAA is a dead duck in vast areas of dublin already, I'm sure people will come in and say don't worry about dublin sure aren't they doing grand but actually from attendance at matches they seemed to have heamorragged fans from 2005/06/07 eras

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 672 - 18/09/2023 10:44:01    2504582

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Replying To dickie10:  "The big losers of this will be the likes of Dublin, Wicklow, Louth and to a lesser extent Kildare. Huge competition from soccer and rugby in these areas. It's crazy to say but I actually think Dublin GAA will be in trouble again in next 15/20 years. The country migration into dublin has now ceased abd I can't see many from Leitrim, Mayo etc settling in dublin like they did in 80s,90s and 00s. That's what drive a lot of dublin GAA success, in local clubs etc. Anecdotal evidence of a lot more of these country people buying houses in Kildare and Meath or being able to work from home . GAA is a dead duck in vast areas of dublin already, I'm sure people will come in and say don't worry about dublin sure aren't they doing grand but actually from attendance at matches they seemed to have heamorragged fans from 2005/06/07 eras"
Yes, the inward migration that helped sustain Dublin GAA is largely going to end. The new migration is of no benefit to GAA, and the social impact is going to create more deserts in which GAA is already as you say struggling to survive.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 18/09/2023 14:53:23    2504632

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "But it wasn't about getting club championships finished earlier than before. It was about providing certainty on when the club championships would be played. There's a big difference.

Maybe in Dublin, you're gone so used to being involved in the latter stages of the All-Ireland that you're gone used to the knock-on effect it has on the club championship, and don't understand the situation in other counties.

Take Galway football, for example. If you were a club player there, and if the All-Ireland Final dates hadn't been brought forward to July, you'd never know early in any given year when you'd be in club championship action.

One year, Galway might be out of the inter-county championship by the end of June, and club championship might start in the second half of July.

Another year (like last year), Galway might go through all the way to the All-Ireland Final on the third Sunday of September, and therefore the club championship wouldn't get going in earnest until probably the first weekend of October. Or if they were running it like they currently do (three groups of six in their Senior Football Championship), you might get one or two early rounds sandwiched in between inter-county fixtures, but you'd never know until relatively short notice whether or not you had a club championship match on any given weekend.

Much the same thing would apply to a club hurler in a county like Waterford or Tipperary. In the 'old way' of doing things, your county team could be out of the championship by early July, or could go all the way through to an All-Ireland Final in September. A club hurler would never know in June whether or not he could 'safely' book a weekend away in July or August.

Overall, if or when there's concrete evidence that gaelic games are suffering in terms of things like numbers, support, etc., as a direct consequence of moving the All-Ireland Finals to July rather than other factors such as demographics, then I'd take concerns like yours seriously.

But until then, I'll regard them as concerns mainly held only by armchair supporters and big day bandwagon people, rather than people with the best interests of all players at heart."
I couldn't be bothered really responding in any meaningful way to someone who claims that someone they know nothing about is an "armchair supporter" or a bandwagoner.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 18/09/2023 15:18:50    2504634

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@Barney - it appears you missed the word 'mainly'. It means I'm not suggesting that all who hold such concerns are armchair supporters and/or bandwagonners - merely that the majority of them are. You may very well be one of those who aren't.

Now that we've cleared that up, perhaps you'd care to consider the lot of club players in counties like the ones I mentioned, and give us your thoughts? Thank you.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2150 - 18/09/2023 16:01:01    2504649

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Also @Barney - I apologise for also using the word 'only' after I'd already said 'mainly' in my earlier post. I can see how it may have led you to misinterpret things.

I remain curious to hear any thoughts you may now have, regarding such club players, and also now that I've corrected your misconception that the split season was to allow club championships be finished earlier rather than providing more certainty on when they'd be played.

Again, thank you.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2150 - 18/09/2023 16:05:54    2504652

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Also @Barney - I apologise for also using the word 'only' after I'd already said 'mainly' in my earlier post. I can see how it may have led you to misinterpret things.

I remain curious to hear any thoughts you may now have, regarding such club players, and also now that I've corrected your misconception that the split season was to allow club championships be finished earlier rather than providing more certainty on when they'd be played.

Again, thank you."
Any club players I know from a few counties love the way it is know,you have a idea of your championship games and have league during the early summer,for once the players are being put first and rightly so,I have seen more players back playing with the club thanks to a better knowledge of when they are playing.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 770 - 18/09/2023 20:50:54    2504685

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Replying To cityman73:  "Any club players I know from a few counties love the way it is know,you have a idea of your championship games and have league during the early summer,for once the players are being put first and rightly so,I have seen more players back playing with the club thanks to a better knowledge of when they are playing."
Having no County games for a period has to increase public interest in the Club scene.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1279 - 19/09/2023 11:03:16    2504765

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Five or six hours nonstop of Rugby on RTE last Saturday evening. What are the GAA doing?

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2508 - 20/09/2023 10:58:51    2504900

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Having no County games for a period has to increase public interest in the Club scene."
Well, judging by crowds at games I've been at or watched on TG4 it hasn't.

Why would it anyway? GAA is invisible to increasing numbers of people. What is going to attract people who are not already club members?

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2414 - 20/09/2023 12:08:10    2504915

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Replying To galwayford:  "Five or six hours nonstop of Rugby on RTE last Saturday evening. What are the GAA doing?"
Switch off or switch Channels.
The GAA are playing thousands of games every week in August and September.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1279 - 20/09/2023 12:15:49    2504918

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Having no County games for a period has to increase public interest in the Club scene."
My club are out of the championship since late August. I'll keep an eye on the results of the knockout and maybe go to the final (football). I don't follow the hurling. My interest is no greater or less with the new season. As for other County Championships, there's so many. Once again, my interest is no better than it was. I'm watching way more soccer than previous, purely because of the void left from a shorter season. I'm even watching rugby world cup matches which is not something I would have done in the past.

I think there can be a better balance between club and County. We have a structure now that is all about the players, we need to factor in the supporters.

I think there's allot to learn from now soccer does it's business. Many clubs competitions and then international tournaments all happening in parallel. Defined seasons, never hear players, managers or supporters giving out for the most. We're never away from the topic..

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1409 - 20/09/2023 12:39:20    2504923

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Replying To Ban:  "My club are out of the championship since late August. I'll keep an eye on the results of the knockout and maybe go to the final (football). I don't follow the hurling. My interest is no greater or less with the new season. As for other County Championships, there's so many. Once again, my interest is no better than it was. I'm watching way more soccer than previous, purely because of the void left from a shorter season. I'm even watching rugby world cup matches which is not something I would have done in the past.

I think there can be a better balance between club and County. We have a structure now that is all about the players, we need to factor in the supporters.

I think there's allot to learn from now soccer does it's business. Many clubs competitions and then international tournaments all happening in parallel. Defined seasons, never hear players, managers or supporters giving out for the most. We're never away from the topic.."
This line of yours is interesting in relation to soccer: Defined seasons, never hear players, managers or supporters giving out for the most.

The GAA also has defined seasons, and for the most part, you don't hear players or managers giving out about it either.

As previously stated (even if it did knock poor old Barney out of joint!), those sort of complaints come mainly from supporters, and from a particular type of supporter at that. Suppose you could throw certain media pundits into the mix of those who complain about it too.

So, what is it that's different between GAA supporters who complain about defined seasons, and soccer supporters who don't? I have certain thoughts myself, but would be interested to hear the likes of yourself or Barney or somebody else who remains unhappy with the split season go first..........

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2150 - 20/09/2023 15:18:22    2504967

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "This line of yours is interesting in relation to soccer: Defined seasons, never hear players, managers or supporters giving out for the most.

The GAA also has defined seasons, and for the most part, you don't hear players or managers giving out about it either.

As previously stated (even if it did knock poor old Barney out of joint!), those sort of complaints come mainly from supporters, and from a particular type of supporter at that. Suppose you could throw certain media pundits into the mix of those who complain about it too.

So, what is it that's different between GAA supporters who complain about defined seasons, and soccer supporters who don't? I have certain thoughts myself, but would be interested to hear the likes of yourself or Barney or somebody else who remains unhappy with the split season go first.........."
Tbh if Premier League club supporters got told that over half the year was to be earmarked for International fixtures, with only around 3 months for the club league, and a further 2 for the Champions League, I'm sure there would be plenty of whinging ;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11224 - 20/09/2023 18:24:17    2505006

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I've mentioned it before but I also think the current split season is better than what we had previously. I say this as a club player and from speaking to dozens of other players. I don't think I've come across any who'd prefer to go back to the old system.

Barney, these are comments from Dublin legend David Byrne when speaking this week. He's also a big fan of the split season:

I've had a deadly summer, in recent years I would have just completed the All-Ireland, so it's been good. The split season is much fairer on the largest number who play our games.
From my perspective as an inter-county and club player the fact that inter-county ended in July, and then to play with the club thereafter is certainly the best of both worlds. In previous years when I came back to the club it was winter football and you're training on floodlit pitches in the rain. It was great this year to come back to the club with summer in full flight.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1995 - 21/09/2023 12:15:43    2505039

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To Pikeman96:  "This line of yours is interesting in relation to soccer: Defined seasons, never hear players, managers or supporters giving out for the most.

The GAA also has defined seasons, and for the most part, you don't hear players or managers giving out about it either.

As previously stated (even if it did knock poor old Barney out of joint!), those sort of complaints come mainly from supporters, and from a particular type of supporter at that. Suppose you could throw certain media pundits into the mix of those who complain about it too.

So, what is it that's different between GAA supporters who complain about defined seasons, and soccer supporters who don't? I have certain thoughts myself, but would be interested to hear the likes of yourself or Barney or somebody else who remains unhappy with the split season go first.........."
Tbh if Premier League club supporters got told that over half the year was to be earmarked for International fixtures, with only around 3 months for the club league, and a further 2 for the Champions League, I'm sure there would be plenty of whinging ;-)"
I'm not sure about that. Where I'm coming from is that I reckon soccer fans tend to support club & country fairly equally. The equivalent thing in GAA would be supporting club & county fairly equally.

Tell a soccer supporter that a new-look calendar is going to be four months Premier League, three months European competition, and two months of weekly international games, and I reckon they'd be happy enough, as they'd still have nine months of non-stop action to enjoy action.

Difference in GAA is that generally speaking, the sort of 'supporter' who continues to complain about the split season doesn't have anything even approaching an equal interest in club and county. On the other hand, it seems that probably 99% or more of us who are actually vested in the club game - including players & managers - are all in favour of it.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2150 - 21/09/2023 14:00:44    2505066

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I'm not a fan of the split season but the GAA seem to have their reasons and they seem determined. There seems to be very little appetite from county boards to move away from the league starting at an the end of January, and the championship ending at the end of July. Is money the main factor? Less expense when the majority of counties are out at the of June.
If the National League started at the end of March, the championship could end at the end of September. County championship could complete in December. Provincial club and All-Ireland club championships from January to mid March. Intercounty provincial leagues could run from January to mid March also.
County leagues run during the provincial and All-Ireland intercounty championships. Intercounty provincial leagues can run during provincial and All-Ireland club championships.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7710 - 21/09/2023 21:16:15    2505125

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I'm not a fan of the split season but the GAA seem to have their reasons and they seem determined. There seems to be very little appetite from county boards to move away from the league starting at an the end of January, and the championship ending at the end of July. Is money the main factor? Less expense when the majority of counties are out at the of June.
If the National League started at the end of March, the championship could end at the end of September. County championship could complete in December. Provincial club and All-Ireland club championships from January to mid March. Intercounty provincial leagues could run from January to mid March also.
County leagues run during the provincial and All-Ireland intercounty championships. Intercounty provincial leagues can run during provincial and All-Ireland club championships."
Sure that's just back to the old system. Club championships being run off in December? That's what we've tried to move away from.
The reasons for the split season have been stated a few times in this thread. Club players (which obviously includes all intercounty players) are very much in favour of having their county championships started earlier, which the current structure enables.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1995 - 22/09/2023 10:32:33    2505150

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