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The Matchday Train Peculiarity

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Replying To letsgetgoing:  "The Sligo/Maynooth rail line comes directly into Drumcondra station (Near McGraths pub) and then passes behind Hill 16 on to Connolly station. The other railway line at the Canal/David stand end, runs from Heuston, under the Pheonix Park and into the Docklands. The longterm plan is to Electrofy the Maynooth line and have much more frequent trains.
The original plan was to run Metro North under Drumcondra station in order to serve Croke Park. That plan has now changed and the proposed new metro line and station has now been moved up to the other end of Whitwoth Road (Glasnevin End) where the two railway lines previously mentioned will all meet up at Whitworth metro station. (Not possible at Drumcondra Station as the two lines are too far apart). One advantage would be that special match trains that would normally stop in heuston would continue under the Pheonix Park and match goers could exit at the Whitworth Metro Station (or the Docklands for the Cusack stand). Customers can then walk down the canal or Whitworth Road to Croke Park or perhaps wait for a train on the Maynooth line to bring them the 1/2 mile to Drumcondra Station.
There are also plans to electrofy the Dundalk line and have more frequent trains to Connolly station, which would help some fans from Northern counties.
If the metro line were to go ahead it would make a huge difference as match goers could park at various location before getting the metro to Whitworth station. Can't for the life of me understand why they have not built the metro line to the airport etc already. Hopefully it will be fast tracked in the budget with all the money we have."
Mayo will have four more all Irelands before that work all gets done

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1091 - 01/07/2023 01:03:39    2490920

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "There's a bit more than pure laziness preventing a train travelling from Heuston to Drumcondra, in fairness!"
It's nothing but pure laziness... People travelling from the south of the country should be able to travel directly to Drumcondra on matchday. Trains already run from Hazelhatch directly to Drumcondra via the Pheonix Park Tunnel... I didn't mean that trains run directly from Heuston to Drumcondra (there would be no need on match day) however if there's was a political will to do so it could also be done as there's an outbound platform at Heuston but no inbound platform.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 781 - 04/07/2023 19:28:28    2492269

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Replying To letsgetgoing:  "The Sligo/Maynooth rail line comes directly into Drumcondra station (Near McGraths pub) and then passes behind Hill 16 on to Connolly station. The other railway line at the Canal/David stand end, runs from Heuston, under the Pheonix Park and into the Docklands. The longterm plan is to Electrofy the Maynooth line and have much more frequent trains.
The original plan was to run Metro North under Drumcondra station in order to serve Croke Park. That plan has now changed and the proposed new metro line and station has now been moved up to the other end of Whitwoth Road (Glasnevin End) where the two railway lines previously mentioned will all meet up at Whitworth metro station. (Not possible at Drumcondra Station as the two lines are too far apart). One advantage would be that special match trains that would normally stop in heuston would continue under the Pheonix Park and match goers could exit at the Whitworth Metro Station (or the Docklands for the Cusack stand). Customers can then walk down the canal or Whitworth Road to Croke Park or perhaps wait for a train on the Maynooth line to bring them the 1/2 mile to Drumcondra Station.
There are also plans to electrofy the Dundalk line and have more frequent trains to Connolly station, which would help some fans from Northern counties.
If the metro line were to go ahead it would make a huge difference as match goers could park at various location before getting the metro to Whitworth station. Can't for the life of me understand why they have not built the metro line to the airport etc already. Hopefully it will be fast tracked in the budget with all the money we have."
No need to explain the topology of the train lines around Croke Park... I know them all well. All of this still doesn't remove the fact that Croke Park itself should have a train station.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 781 - 04/07/2023 19:34:17    2492270

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Replying To Square_B:  "It's nothing but pure laziness... People travelling from the south of the country should be able to travel directly to Drumcondra on matchday. Trains already run from Hazelhatch directly to Drumcondra via the Pheonix Park Tunnel... I didn't mean that trains run directly from Heuston to Drumcondra (there would be no need on match day) however if there's was a political will to do so it could also be done as there's an outbound platform at Heuston but no inbound platform."
I do see your point but given the overall bizarre "planning" that goes into travel in this state it would be impossible at this stage probably to create what are perfectly logical systems. We missed the boat on underground 40/50 years ago. Would be impossible now.

Must be only capital or major city in western Europe that does not have such a system, nor a rail link, usually underground, to the airport. We have been ruled for a century mostly by people who see no further than the next election, and a public service that was never really interested in creating a genuine vibrant independent state.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2399 - 05/07/2023 10:53:30    2492346

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I do see your point but given the overall bizarre "planning" that goes into travel in this state it would be impossible at this stage probably to create what are perfectly logical systems. We missed the boat on underground 40/50 years ago. Would be impossible now.

Must be only capital or major city in western Europe that does not have such a system, nor a rail link, usually underground, to the airport. We have been ruled for a century mostly by people who see no further than the next election, and a public service that was never really interested in creating a genuine vibrant independent state."
Sadly this is true. It's frankly embarrassing that visitors have to traipse outside often in the ******* rain to wait on buses that will then often dump them at the hell hole that is Bus Arás. No joined up thinking in this country at all.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9006 - 05/07/2023 11:51:18    2492377

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I do see your point but given the overall bizarre "planning" that goes into travel in this state it would be impossible at this stage probably to create what are perfectly logical systems. We missed the boat on underground 40/50 years ago. Would be impossible now.

Must be only capital or major city in western Europe that does not have such a system, nor a rail link, usually underground, to the airport. We have been ruled for a century mostly by people who see no further than the next election, and a public service that was never really interested in creating a genuine vibrant independent state."
The main rail problem in Dublin is that there is just 2 lines going through the city center that congests trains though Connolly. The solution is the dart underground connector that would finally connect Heuston to the dart line along with both luas lines running from inchicore to Docklands via Christchurch and Stephens green

Phase 1 was the dart. Phase 2 the interconnect. Phase 3 was to be spurs to tallaght and blanchardstown. The next phase was to be metro north and an airport connection.

We're obviously going for phase 4 next meaning another line with patchy connections.

The decision makers seem to only look at Northside/Southside whereas the biggest problems are coming into Dublin from the west.

Croke Park - where it is suffers from these problems. There should be a station there and it should be connected.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 271 - 05/07/2023 14:00:24    2492417

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I do see your point but given the overall bizarre "planning" that goes into travel in this state it would be impossible at this stage probably to create what are perfectly logical systems. We missed the boat on underground 40/50 years ago. Would be impossible now.

Must be only capital or major city in western Europe that does not have such a system, nor a rail link, usually underground, to the airport. We have been ruled for a century mostly by people who see no further than the next election, and a public service that was never really interested in creating a genuine vibrant independent state."
you're right about the lack of forward thinking, in terms of transport infrastructure, other than motorways, there has been little or no improvements in the rail infrastruture since the brits left. the victorian engineers were ahead of their time and anything that was built during occupation has stood the test of time (unless it was blown up!). unfortunately they never built an underground in dublin. No one had the foresight since, okay the Luas was constructed in the boom, but that was it really in 100 years since the brits left.

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 904 - 05/07/2023 16:13:31    2492481

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Replying To Square_B:  "No need to explain the topology of the train lines around Croke Park... I know them all well. All of this still doesn't remove the fact that Croke Park itself should have a train station."
You can't have a station at Croke Park. It'd create a bottleneck of suporters getting to and from the stadium and be a huge safety risk. Local businesses would also reject planning permission. Drumcondra station isn't perfect for letting a flow of supporters to and from Croke Park and passing trade for pubs, shops, takeaways, cafes etc. Plus it'd be a massive waste of money, might be busy 10 days a year.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7250 - 05/07/2023 21:40:34    2492540

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Replying To totalrecall:  "you're right about the lack of forward thinking, in terms of transport infrastructure, other than motorways, there has been little or no improvements in the rail infrastruture since the brits left. the victorian engineers were ahead of their time and anything that was built during occupation has stood the test of time (unless it was blown up!). unfortunately they never built an underground in dublin. No one had the foresight since, okay the Luas was constructed in the boom, but that was it really in 100 years since the brits left."
The rail infrastructure has got worse over the years.
google map of ireland and its railways in 1920 compared to 2020.
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KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3436 - 05/07/2023 21:57:29    2492543

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "You can't have a station at Croke Park. It'd create a bottleneck of suporters getting to and from the stadium and be a huge safety risk. Local businesses would also reject planning permission. Drumcondra station isn't perfect for letting a flow of supporters to and from Croke Park and passing trade for pubs, shops, takeaways, cafes etc. Plus it'd be a massive waste of money, might be busy 10 days a year."
My comment above was made in the context of my last post -
"Railway lines run both ends of Croke Park but there's no space at the Hill 16 end to put a station... there's probably enough space on the Davin Stand / Canal End but what should have happened when Croke Park was redeveloped, was that the pitch be turned and moved towards St James's Ave and a proper station be built on the Canal End / Hill 16 end. Stadium design at the time didn't probably help either. But of course no joined up thinking or political will to do things right from a transport perspective. There's also a direct track (outbound) from Connolly that runs out to under the Davin Stand and continues on to Broombridge. I agree that trains from Heuston should run directly to Drumcondra on match day. It's pure laziness from Iarnród Éireann and they'll say it's too much hassle to put on special trains when there's scheduled services going to Connolly / Heuston and other connecting options."

Some sort of a station could probably be installed at the Davin stand end towards the back of the handball alley... buildings would need to be demolished and a lot of other ground work. The option to go underground is there as well it doesn't have to be an overground station. Of course we all know these things will never happen for various reasons.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 781 - 06/07/2023 10:56:15    2492603

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "You can't have a station at Croke Park. It'd create a bottleneck of suporters getting to and from the stadium and be a huge safety risk. Local businesses would also reject planning permission. Drumcondra station isn't perfect for letting a flow of supporters to and from Croke Park and passing trade for pubs, shops, takeaways, cafes etc. Plus it'd be a massive waste of money, might be busy 10 days a year."
There's a dart station at Lansdowne Road/Aviva Stadium, and I don't ever recall any issues there. Yes you might only have 52,000 people there as compared to 82,000 at Croker on All Ireland Day, but most major stadiums all over Europe would have train stations in quite close proximity, and it would be the norm. At the end of the day public transport in Dublin is at best bang average when compared to most other countries, there is no joined up thinking, and if they ever build the Metro, just watch the price quadruple and go live 10 years after it was supposed to. In saying that it was supposed to be built 40 years ago, but you could probably say that for most major infrastructure projects in this country.

gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 169 - 06/07/2023 11:45:14    2492616

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Replying To gilly1910:  "There's a dart station at Lansdowne Road/Aviva Stadium, and I don't ever recall any issues there. Yes you might only have 52,000 people there as compared to 82,000 at Croker on All Ireland Day, but most major stadiums all over Europe would have train stations in quite close proximity, and it would be the norm. At the end of the day public transport in Dublin is at best bang average when compared to most other countries, there is no joined up thinking, and if they ever build the Metro, just watch the price quadruple and go live 10 years after it was supposed to. In saying that it was supposed to be built 40 years ago, but you could probably say that for most major infrastructure projects in this country."
From all the money that was squandered over the years in this country on various high-profile infrastructure projects, I feel we would have been much better served outsourcing the whole lot to German consultants. Far too much gombeenism in this country to ever hope that large projects could be planned and followed through on without some sort of controversy or wastefulness.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9006 - 06/07/2023 12:25:57    2492631

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Replying To Square_B:  "My comment above was made in the context of my last post -
"Railway lines run both ends of Croke Park but there's no space at the Hill 16 end to put a station... there's probably enough space on the Davin Stand / Canal End but what should have happened when Croke Park was redeveloped, was that the pitch be turned and moved towards St James's Ave and a proper station be built on the Canal End / Hill 16 end. Stadium design at the time didn't probably help either. But of course no joined up thinking or political will to do things right from a transport perspective. There's also a direct track (outbound) from Connolly that runs out to under the Davin Stand and continues on to Broombridge. I agree that trains from Heuston should run directly to Drumcondra on match day. It's pure laziness from Iarnród Éireann and they'll say it's too much hassle to put on special trains when there's scheduled services going to Connolly / Heuston and other connecting options."

Some sort of a station could probably be installed at the Davin stand end towards the back of the handball alley... buildings would need to be demolished and a lot of other ground work. The option to go underground is there as well it doesn't have to be an overground station. Of course we all know these things will never happen for various reasons."
The safe exit of supporters at the same time after a match is critically important. That is why the exits from the main stands in the Aviva are designed to take supporters away from Landsdowne Road, the railway station and the blocked railway gates. For this reason there will never be a railway station at the Davin/Canal end. It would be too dangerous to have supporters existing the Hill, Cusack, and the Hogan heading for the proposed railway station going against other supporters exiting in very close proximity to the stadium.
The best medium/long term option is to fast track the metro. In the short term, more Luas times from Heuston to Connolly would help to coincide with match trains. Need to put pressure on the politicians.

letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 438 - 06/07/2023 14:12:35    2492666

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