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Sanctions For Playing In America For The Summer

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Replying To louthspeaker:  "Liam Moloney is the secretary of USGAA and he signed off on Uitan Harney as an inter county transfer"
He is living in Chicago at the minute what's your issue with it? Sounds like your associated with another Chicago club and a bit of jealousy

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1172 - 13/06/2023 10:40:39    2486110

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I think it's fantastic that young lads can go over during the summer, play football experience a totally new world try different jobs and come back again in August ready for championship and back to college. Do you really want to stop them doing that and playing a league game in front of a few dozen people. Life is for living.

eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 1803 - 13/06/2023 11:34:14    2486136

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Replying To eoinog:  "I think it's fantastic that young lads can go over during the summer, play football experience a totally new world try different jobs and come back again in August ready for championship and back to college. Do you really want to stop them doing that and playing a league game in front of a few dozen people. Life is for living."
Nail on head. You'll be long enough married, looking after kids, dealing with feckin bills and all of the other associated ***** that comes with grown-up life. If you've a chance to spend 3 months in America, and are even lucky enough to be getting a few pound for doing so playing ball then you'd be a dimwit for turning down the opportunity.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9352 - 13/06/2023 12:54:51    2486169

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Replying To Canuck:  "Let me ask you another question. These over seas clubs are part of the GAA. The New York board etc. How come you can't play for two clubs in Ireland. Like a junior player play for a different senior team. What is there difference of a hurler in Waterford or Kilkenny going to Donegal for a weekend and playing there. These clubs in Chicago, New York , Boston are trying to integrate nationals and locals into their teams. This does not seem like the best formula.
No problem with players going but you transfer properly and play for one team. Also it is not limited to young players as established mature players also go. You must be the exception to the rule as every player I know players are getting taken care of in some form and rightly so. Also been involved with the process. Your local club in Ireland does not act as an employment agency if you are out of work or finding accommodation if no place to live."
You hit the nail on the head, clubs in US should be playing more Americans not just bringing Irish kids over for a few weeks of the summer It's the USA and it should be centred around Americans not making everything about a few overpaid Irish players for the summer

louthspeaker (Louth) - Posts: 45 - 13/06/2023 13:33:02    2486188

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Replying To sourmilk93:  "He is living in Chicago at the minute what's your issue with it? Sounds like your associated with another Chicago club and a bit of jealousy"
Living in Chicago hahahhahahahaha he wasn't in Chicago until after May 15 and he put through an inter county transfer in February, he should have been a resident in Chicago in February but was in Thailand Roscommon or his club Clann wouldn't stand for cheating against them so why turn a blind eye to it

louthspeaker (Louth) - Posts: 45 - 13/06/2023 13:37:07    2486192

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Replying To louthspeaker:  "You hit the nail on the head, clubs in US should be playing more Americans not just bringing Irish kids over for a few weeks of the summer It's the USA and it should be centred around Americans not making everything about a few overpaid Irish players for the summer"
Ara cac bhó. Irish students will go to the US every summer regardless. What is the big deal with them playing some football when they're over there? Would you rather they ate hot dogs and drank Budwesier all summer and came back for club championship in hopeless shape?

I'm really getting a sense of good old Irish begrudgery here. Some young lads and girls want to do a bit of travelling and play the sport they love while they do so. What is the big deal like?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9352 - 13/06/2023 14:42:31    2486221

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Some people here are sour yokes. Giving out about a few young lads spending the summer of their lives in America meeting new people through gaelic football and back in time for the club championship. You'd know some people don't know how to live at all! Definitely the same individuals causing arguments in the local club on a regular basis!!!

ball1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 29 - 13/06/2023 15:25:38    2486236

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Replying To louthspeaker:  "Living in Chicago hahahhahahahaha he wasn't in Chicago until after May 15 and he put through an inter county transfer in February, he should have been a resident in Chicago in February but was in Thailand Roscommon or his club Clann wouldn't stand for cheating against them so why turn a blind eye to it"
Haha you are fairly sour over it. Must be fairly afraid of him. How do you know how long he has been in Chicago for? He moved there earlier this year,

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1172 - 13/06/2023 15:48:10    2486243

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "Site still down. Next Monday I think would be a good wager as time of restoration."
Tried the "New York Sanctions" portal. Got this again:
Access Denied. You don't have permissions to access this resource.
All sanctions to the other American and Canadian Boards are posted.
Transfers to all counties and boards are all blank.
What gives?
Something seems wrong. What is being hid?

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 758 - 13/06/2023 17:35:55    2486289

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Ara cac bhó. Irish students will go to the US every summer regardless. What is the big deal with them playing some football when they're over there? Would you rather they ate hot dogs and drank Budwesier all summer and came back for club championship in hopeless shape?

I'm really getting a sense of good old Irish begrudgery here. Some young lads and girls want to do a bit of travelling and play the sport they love while they do so. What is the big deal like?"
Did I once begrudge anyone travelling and playing sport. In fact I applaud it. I question why there are different rules with in the GAA that allows a player to play for two different clubs without transferring and be subject to the same rules that exist in Ireland. In fact it is discrimination. If it was a different sport that was not part of the association then they could not do anything about.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2796 - 13/06/2023 18:03:58    2486301

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Replying To sourmilk93:  "Haha you are fairly sour over it. Must be fairly afraid of him. How do you know how long he has been in Chicago for? He moved there earlier this year,"
He is not living in Chicago and doesn't qualify to be a homebase player, it is cheating at its finest allowed by USGAA and Croke Park If you condone cheating fair play to you, you would be welcome with open arms by the clubs in Chicago

louthspeaker (Louth) - Posts: 45 - 13/06/2023 19:19:48    2486312

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Replying To sourmilk93:  "Haha you are fairly sour over it. Must be fairly afraid of him. How do you know how long he has been in Chicago for? He moved there earlier this year,"
Harney was asked by Donegal Boston to be a homebase player and probably would have been well payed for his time but when they realized he wasn't going to be actually in the US until late May Paddy McDevitt did the right thing and said no

louthspeaker (Louth) - Posts: 45 - 13/06/2023 19:27:30    2486315

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Replying To eoinog:  "I think it's fantastic that young lads can go over during the summer, play football experience a totally new world try different jobs and come back again in August ready for championship and back to college. Do you really want to stop them doing that and playing a league game in front of a few dozen people. Life is for living."
I agree and the rules for playing in the USGAA, NYGAA, and Canada have been straight forward and transparent.
However the "Sanctions" to the New York GAA are not posted and all the inter-county transfers are all whited out.
Two weeks now. What is the purpose of this. The veil of secrecy causes doubts.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 758 - 13/06/2023 20:04:16    2486322

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Replying To Canuck:  "Did I once begrudge anyone travelling and playing sport. In fact I applaud it. I question why there are different rules with in the GAA that allows a player to play for two different clubs without transferring and be subject to the same rules that exist in Ireland. In fact it is discrimination. If it was a different sport that was not part of the association then they could not do anything about."
Again - it is NOT the same thing!

Is there a possibility that say, Donegal NY can come up against St Eunans at any stage? No.
Do they play in the same competitions? No.
If Donegal NY win the championship over there, do they enter the All Ireland club championship? No.

So why oh why are you getting your knickers in such a twist over this? If some club player based in Ireland was wanting to transfer elsewhere, and was using the J1 summer transfer/sanction as a precedent to advance his move, then there might be an issue. But noone is doing that because they know and accept that students are only going to the US temporarily for a summer and want to play a bit of ball over there while they do so.

You're making it too black and white when it's not.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9352 - 14/06/2023 11:14:44    2486384

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Again - it is NOT the same thing!

Is there a possibility that say, Donegal NY can come up against St Eunans at any stage? No.
Do they play in the same competitions? No.
If Donegal NY win the championship over there, do they enter the All Ireland club championship? No.

So why oh why are you getting your knickers in such a twist over this? If some club player based in Ireland was wanting to transfer elsewhere, and was using the J1 summer transfer/sanction as a precedent to advance his move, then there might be an issue. But noone is doing that because they know and accept that students are only going to the US temporarily for a summer and want to play a bit of ball over there while they do so.

You're making it too black and white when it's not."
I could give you a list of players from last year alone who could not remember when they were students.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2796 - 14/06/2023 14:30:05    2486439

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "I agree and the rules for playing in the USGAA, NYGAA, and Canada have been straight forward and transparent.
However the "Sanctions" to the New York GAA are not posted and all the inter-county transfers are all whited out.
Two weeks now. What is the purpose of this. The veil of secrecy causes doubts."
New York sanction list now available on line.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 758 - 14/06/2023 16:49:49    2486478

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Ara cac bhó. Irish students will go to the US every summer regardless. What is the big deal with them playing some football when they're over there? Would you rather they ate hot dogs and drank Budwesier all summer and came back for club championship in hopeless shape?

I'm really getting a sense of good old Irish begrudgery here. Some young lads and girls want to do a bit of travelling and play the sport they love while they do so. What is the big deal like?"
Having spent a few years living and playing football in the US, I get the point the louth speaker is making as I, and the club I was involved with, experienced it at 1st hand.

Most clubs now try to build and maintain a strong sustainable model that allows them to function and grow throughout the year. This is typically done in 2 main ways:

1. By giving opportunities to young American players to develop their skills and become integral team (and club) members and not just being seen as a necessary inconvenience to fulfill a minimum requirement of homebase players or American born players.

2. Bolstering their homebase with Irish immigrants living & working in the specific city.

In these ways (and others) many clubs have become stronger and helped them to grow and develop. It must be said NY clubs have been very much to the fore in this but others in other cities are beginning to follow suit. However, some clubs haven't moved on from their old ways and have allowed their club membership deplete to the point where they rely on flying players to the US (and often home again) to sign them up as 'homebased' just so they have the minimum number of homebased players to allow them compete during the summer.

The important point is that the majority of clubs don't and never have had an issue with sanction players (inter-county or otherwise) coming out for the summers to play football. These players bring a great buzz to the GAA communities of the various cities to which they travel. What the clubs who are doing the right thing throughout the year and who follow the rules as laid out by the GAA do have an issue with is certain clubs flagrantly breaking these rules and, seemingly with the backing of the GAA authorities, are getting away with it.

monaghan_ultra (None) - Posts: 211 - 15/06/2023 11:44:43    2486619

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Replying To monaghan_ultra:  "Having spent a few years living and playing football in the US, I get the point the louth speaker is making as I, and the club I was involved with, experienced it at 1st hand.

Most clubs now try to build and maintain a strong sustainable model that allows them to function and grow throughout the year. This is typically done in 2 main ways:

1. By giving opportunities to young American players to develop their skills and become integral team (and club) members and not just being seen as a necessary inconvenience to fulfill a minimum requirement of homebase players or American born players.

2. Bolstering their homebase with Irish immigrants living & working in the specific city.

In these ways (and others) many clubs have become stronger and helped them to grow and develop. It must be said NY clubs have been very much to the fore in this but others in other cities are beginning to follow suit. However, some clubs haven't moved on from their old ways and have allowed their club membership deplete to the point where they rely on flying players to the US (and often home again) to sign them up as 'homebased' just so they have the minimum number of homebased players to allow them compete during the summer.

The important point is that the majority of clubs don't and never have had an issue with sanction players (inter-county or otherwise) coming out for the summers to play football. These players bring a great buzz to the GAA communities of the various cities to which they travel. What the clubs who are doing the right thing throughout the year and who follow the rules as laid out by the GAA do have an issue with is certain clubs flagrantly breaking these rules and, seemingly with the backing of the GAA authorities, are getting away with it."
Good post and a fair analysis. Did there not used to be a limit to the amount of "outside" players, J1 students or otherwise, that teams had to stick to? But I suppose the "home-based" status gets flouted a bit by what you're saying?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9352 - 15/06/2023 12:18:14    2486633

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Good post and a fair analysis. Did there not used to be a limit to the amount of "outside" players, J1 students or otherwise, that teams had to stick to? But I suppose the "home-based" status gets flouted a bit by what you're saying?"
It's been a few years since I was in the US but as far as I'm aware (and I'm open to correction on this) in the North American board area (which excludes NY) you can register unlimited J1 sanctions and possibly max. 10 regular sanction players. When it comes to playing a game (13-a-side outside of NY) you can have no more than 5 sanction players (j1 or regular) on the field at any one time, the remainder must be homebased and of the 8 homebased 2 must be American born.

This 5/8 sanction/homebase split up until relatively recently (5/6 years ago maybe) was the opposite way around so you only needed 5 homebased players of your 13. This split reversal along with the requirement for 2 American born players was brought in to encourage clubs to become more sustainable and to give American born players a better chance to develop. This was definitely a step in the right direction but unfortunately some clubs refused to adapt their ways and instead of trying to develop their homebase look for the quick fix route to success as they might see it and bring out supposed homebased players.

To me this is an incredibly shortsighted strategy and an insult to the clubs who can see the bigger picture and adhere to the spirit and not just the letter of the law. The biggest slap in face often comes from those entrusted with running the game stateside who, even when presented with irrefutable evidence of wrongdoing, turn a blind eye thus enabling and emboldening the, and let's call a spade a spade here, cheating clubs.

I just want to make clear that the players who fly out early in the year to sign up as homebased more than likely have no idea that what they are being asked to do is wrong and like any young lad would see this as a great opportunity, the fault lies entirely with clubs bringing them out. Also, little do these players know that what they are doing could lead to them serving very heavy suspensions at home.

Sorry about the long message but it frustrates me that these practices are still continuing and aren't being clamped down on. The offending clubs are doing a disservice to the GAA at large through their behaviour but more specifically they are completely undermining the long term viability of the sport in some parts of America and it is long past time that the GAA authorities in the US and Ireland grasped the nettle and put an end to this cheating once and for all.

monaghan_ultra (None) - Posts: 211 - 15/06/2023 20:17:19    2486743

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