National Forum

Round 3 Neutral Venues All Ireland

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I'm not a fan of neutral games as much as possible. 4 groups of 5 would give 2 home games each.

In groups of 4, home advantage for the final round could be determined by the number of years without an extra home game in the previous 3 years.

111 - no extra home game in 3 years.
110 - no extra home game in 2 years.
101 - no extra home game in 1 year and previously 2 years.
100 - no extra home game in 1 year.
011 - an extra game in the previous year and no extra home game in the previous 2 years.
010 - an extra game in the previous year and no extra home game in the previous year before that.
001 - an extra home game in the previous 2 years.
000 - an extra home game in the previous 3 years.

Dublin Seed 1 v Mayo Seed 2 in Round 3.
Dublin 000 v Mayo 001. Mayo awarded home advantage in Round 3.
Donegal Seed 3 v Clare Seed 4 in Round 3. Donegal 110 v Clare 101. Donegal awarded home advantage in Round 3.
If the final round pairings had the same no extra game rating e.g. 110 v 110, the higher seed can be awarded home advantage in Round 3."
Not sure I follow all that but if you are basing your example re Mayo v Dublin on the number of games Dubs play in Croke pk then it doesn't stand up. Leinster championship semis and final are played at Croke pk as a neutral venue no matter who plays in them.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 748 - 24/05/2023 18:27:44    2481359

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Not sure I follow all that but if you are basing your example re Mayo v Dublin on the number of games Dubs play in Croke pk then it doesn't stand up. Leinster championship semis and final are played at Croke pk as a neutral venue no matter who plays in them."
The group stage has one home game, one away game and one neutral game. Instead of a neutral game, I've come up with a rating to award a home game in Round 3. Round 3 will see Seed 1 v Seed 2 and Seed 3 v Seed 4.

Year 1:
Seed 1 and Seed 3 in groups 1 and 3 awarded the extra home group game in Round 3 by luck of the draw.
Seed 2 and Seed 4 in groups 2 and 4 awarded the extra home group game in Round 3 by luck of the draw.

Year 2 onwards:
An extra home game in Round 3 awarded on the below rating table. It's the best attempt at trying to award an extra home group game every second year. Where counties have the same extra home group game rating, the higher seed being awarded the extra home group game.

111 - no extra home group game in 3 years.
110 - no extra home group game in 2 years.
101 - no extra home group game in 1 year and previously 2 years.
100 - no extra home group game in 1 year.
011 - an extra group game in the previous year and no extra home group game in the previous 2 years.
010 - an extra group game in the previous year and no extra home group game in the previous year before that.
001 - an extra home group game in the previous 2 years.
000 - an extra home group game in the previous 3 years.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8111 - 25/05/2023 07:04:08    2481397

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I wish to God they'd kept score of how many home games how many way games it's each team received in the league over the years. Now that would be some reading. I'd say some teams have received multiple doses of four away games, more than their fair share. But I digress.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1096 - 25/05/2023 16:27:01    2481575

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Replying To Cbar:  "For the round 3 games I hope they don't lump them into CP. The only thing worse than a half empty CP, is a half empty CP when its a double header, it does the game no service.

Personally i think more games should be outside CP including QFs and even SFs.

I've been to my fair share of big games, and a few soccer matches with Ireland and I still say that the SF down in Limerick (Mayo v Kerry 2014 replay) was the best atmosphere I ever experienced - even if the result didn't go our way. I think Keegan said the same recently.

But easy for me to say here on my keyboard... if the players want to play in CP... I'm hardly in a position to tell them No!"
I have to agree with you. I ve been at a fair amount of sporting events myself but the atmosphere in Limerick that day was something I've never experienced before or since.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3820 - 25/05/2023 17:02:54    2481590

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "I wish to God they'd kept score of how many home games how many way games it's each team received in the league over the years. Now that would be some reading. I'd say some teams have received multiple doses of four away games, more than their fair share. But I digress."
Yes and I presume you are referring to Dublin. You are correct but tbf that was agreed to by county boards. When the spring series was set up early around 2010 /11 some counties offered up their home game to play in croke park and were duly compensated for it financially. In fairness it worked a treat as croke park had massive crowds for Saturday night games. I know that on at least two occasions Kerry gave up home games v Dublin for league games but we're compensated. It was all above board and everyone was a winner.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3820 - 25/05/2023 17:10:52    2481598

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Not sure I follow all that but if you are basing your example re Mayo v Dublin on the number of games Dubs play in Croke pk then it doesn't stand up. Leinster championship semis and final are played at Croke pk as a neutral venue no matter who plays in them."
Why Croke Park when it's only quarter full?

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2096 - 25/05/2023 19:29:23    2481618

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I'm not a fan of neutral games as much as possible. 4 groups of 5 would give 2 home games each.

In groups of 4, home advantage for the final round could be determined by the number of years without an extra home game in the previous 3 years.

111 - no extra home game in 3 years.
110 - no extra home game in 2 years.
101 - no extra home game in 1 year and previously 2 years.
100 - no extra home game in 1 year.
011 - an extra game in the previous year and no extra home game in the previous 2 years.
010 - an extra game in the previous year and no extra home game in the previous year before that.
001 - an extra home game in the previous 2 years.
000 - an extra home game in the previous 3 years.

Dublin Seed 1 v Mayo Seed 2 in Round 3.
Dublin 000 v Mayo 001. Mayo awarded home advantage in Round 3.
Donegal Seed 3 v Clare Seed 4 in Round 3. Donegal 110 v Clare 101. Donegal awarded home advantage in Round 3.
If the final round pairings had the same no extra game rating e.g. 110 v 110, the higher seed can be awarded home advantage in Round 3."
Clever usage of the binary system to weight the years based on recency.
But just a little overly complicated and unnecessary as there is nothing woing with the neutral venue plan.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 908 - 26/05/2023 08:57:50    2481644

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes and I presume you are referring to Dublin. You are correct but tbf that was agreed to by county boards. When the spring series was set up early around 2010 /11 some counties offered up their home game to play in croke park and were duly compensated for it financially. In fairness it worked a treat as croke park had massive crowds for Saturday night games. I know that on at least two occasions Kerry gave up home games v Dublin for league games but we're compensated. It was all above board and everyone was a winner."
That was a once off and truly mad crowds. Around 60,000 for the Kerry game and a full house - 84.000 all ticket! - for the Tyrone match.

Home advantage was bugger all advantage in those times!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 26/05/2023 09:50:06    2481657

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I have to agree with you. I ve been at a fair amount of sporting events myself but the atmosphere in Limerick that day was something I've never experienced before or since."
There were few if any neutrals with almost everyone there supporting one of the teams.
No Corporates or Premiums there to be seen or for free drink or grub.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1706 - 26/05/2023 10:24:27    2481669

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "That was a once off and truly mad crowds. Around 60,000 for the Kerry game and a full house - 84.000 all ticket! - for the Tyrone match.

Home advantage was bugger all advantage in those times!"
I was at those games. Super athmosphere under lights and one the gaa got right. It was novel and exciting.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3820 - 26/05/2023 11:05:18    2481689

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "There were few if any neutrals with almost everyone there supporting one of the teams.
No Corporates or Premiums there to be seen or for free drink or grub."
It was a special (not saying that because of result) and you are correct. Everyone there that day were into it big time and on the edge of their seats all day. The fact it went to extra time even added to the spectacle. Also you could hear the crunching tackles. It was fab. 2001 in Thurles was super top and my friends from Dublin and Cork say 1983 was in PUC was great too.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3820 - 26/05/2023 11:08:56    2481691

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Replying To Temple56:  "After the draw this afternoon we know that round 3 will be held in neutral venues. I have had a stab at choosing the venues. Of course Croke Park will be used for at least 2 games but I have not picked Croke Park for any of the games as I have gone with stand alone fixtures to fill stadiums and create a better atmosphere. This fixtures also depend on how wins provincial finals over the next 2 weeks. I have predicted that all 4 favorites will win them. (Galway, Kerry, Dublin and Derry)

Kerry VS Louth - O'Moore Park, Portlaoise - Capacity: 22,000
Mayo VS Cork - TUS Gaelic Grounds - Capacity: 44,000

Tyrone VS Westmeath - Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada, Carrick-on-Shannon - Capacity: 10,000
Galway VS Armagh - Breffni Park, Cavan - Capacity: 25,000

Dublin VS Sligo - Dr. Hyde Park, Roscommon - Capacity: 19,000
Roscommon VS Kildare - O Connor Park, Tullamore - Capacity: 18,000

Derry VS Clare - MacHale Park, Castlebar - Capacity: 26,000
Monaghan VS Donegal - Healy Park, Omagh - Capacity: 18,000

Imagine the atmospheres that we could get at some of these games!!!"
I'll go with:

Kerry v Louth in Portlaoise
Cork v Mayo in Ennis
Tyrone v Westmeath in Carrick on Shannon
Armagh v Galway in Mullingar
Kildare v Roscommon in Tullamore
Dublin v Sligo in Cavan
Clare v Derry in Longford
Donegal v Monagh in Omagh

Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 850 - 26/05/2023 17:00:49    2481798

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I was at those games. Super athmosphere under lights and one the gaa got right. It was novel and exciting."
The Tyrone match was part of some centenary if I recall right? Players paraded in retro shirts and shorts before the game. I'm damned if I can recall what the centenary was though?

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 27/05/2023 08:26:32    2481850

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The Tyrone match was part of some centenary if I recall right? Players paraded in retro shirts and shorts before the game. I'm damned if I can recall what the centenary was though?"
125 years of the Gaa. If I remember correctly.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/05/2023 08:45:18    2481854

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Replying To royaldunne:  "125 years of the Gaa. If I remember correctly."
Ah. That would make sense. I was thinking it was earlier.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 27/05/2023 08:55:39    2481855

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Replying To Ollie2:  "I'll go with:

Kerry v Louth in Portlaoise
Cork v Mayo in Ennis
Tyrone v Westmeath in Carrick on Shannon
Armagh v Galway in Mullingar
Kildare v Roscommon in Tullamore
Dublin v Sligo in Cavan
Clare v Derry in Longford
Donegal v Monagh in Omagh"
Doubt if Mullingar would have capacity for an Armagh crowd.
Hyde or Breffni more likely.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1706 - 27/05/2023 10:22:51    2481869

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Doubt if Mullingar would have capacity for an Armagh crowd.
Hyde or Breffni more likely."
I think that Galway Armagh game has to be Croke Park really. The Armagh crowd is too large for any truly neutral venue and Armagh would be upset if it was Hyde Park and Galway upset if it was Breffini. Breffini is under an hour from Armagh and Armagh played there a few weeks ago. Exact same situation with Galway and Hyde Park

PressureKick (UK) - Posts: 229 - 27/05/2023 11:36:52    2481879

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Replying To PressureKick:  "I think that Galway Armagh game has to be Croke Park really. The Armagh crowd is too large for any truly neutral venue and Armagh would be upset if it was Hyde Park and Galway upset if it was Breffini. Breffini is under an hour from Armagh and Armagh played there a few weeks ago. Exact same situation with Galway and Hyde Park"
I doubt if Croke Park will be used for a group game which might attract at most 12,000.
If a neutral Province is required probably a double header in Portlaoise with Kerry/Louth.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1706 - 27/05/2023 13:00:51    2481898

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "I doubt if Croke Park will be used for a group game which might attract at most 12,000.
If a neutral Province is required probably a double header in Portlaoise with Kerry/Louth."
I personally think it'll be a Croker double header with the likes of the game you mentioned or Kildare v Roscommon but I could be wrong. Tullamore or portloaise like you say would be better alright

PressureKick (UK) - Posts: 229 - 27/05/2023 14:08:05    2481910

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Doubt if Mullingar would have capacity for an Armagh crowd.
Hyde or Breffni more likely."
Put it in Croke Park as a double header with Louth and Kerry. Louth and Kerry at 2.00 pm with Armagh and Galway at 4.00 pm.

Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 850 - 28/05/2023 13:04:06    2482127

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