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they are not relevant to your Dublins, Kerrys etc. in football, Ide say 20/25 of the remaining counties would take a provincial title with both hands if offered, some who have never won a senior provincial titile. As regards hurling, outside of Munster I hear the argument of the title, Kilkenny decimated Leinster once they regained control from Offaly and Wexford, a so called solution was to allow in outside counties, what has that done for Leinster hurling championship???..nothing, as a result, Offaly and Laois arent even in the Leinster championship!!! Kilkenny and Galway and maybe Wexford have the real chance of winning, Dublin on any day could, but system is designed now if they or Wexford beat Kilkenny, Kilkenny arent gone like years ago, they come back twice as good almost..hard to know what the fix is regards hurling...football has a chance but messing about with super 8's and all that lark is hard to look at..I would love one season of reverting back to the old style National Leagues and knock out championships, of course there is no money in that for the GAA...
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 14/04/2023 14:50:56
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Replying To ColinWex: "At least for football the provincial championship have become very irrelevant and boring. Leinster is basically Dublin. Munster Kerry, then you've Galway and Mayo, ulster is half decent.
It's no-longer a viable product. People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off.
I feel they should just collapse the Championship and league into one and make that the proper comp. Maybe then they can have an FA cup type knock out comp in there somewhere." It's not a product.
It's a culture, a way of life. It's not about always winning and competing at the top - it's about the hope of someday achieving something truly special.
Keep your English league rubbish.
The teams I feel sorry for are the likes of Dublin over the 6 year run and Kerry in Munster, where winning became and is boring and in the end is hardly celebrated.
Look at what it meant for us in Monaghan to win their first in 30 odd years, Tipp during covid winning, Cavan beating Tyrone in the final. In fact I'd swap winning 10 division 2 leagues if it meant we got the win over Tyrone this weekend.. Roscommon and Clare, would likely do the same for the results they've achieved.
As a Wexford man you'd surely care more about getting a win over Dublin this year than winning a div 3 title next year?!
The GAA is not about selling games on tv like soccer, it's about much much more than that - on one beautiful day.
Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 152 - 14/04/2023 17:39:39
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Connacht Titles are very important in our neck of the woods. With Mayo on 48 and Galway on 47, I'd love to see us level that score! Roscommon on 24 or 25 titles might have something to say about it! The next few years will see Sligo challenging too as they're doing some tremendous work at underage there, with strong minor and u20s teams.
Connacht and Ulster are still great competitions. It's up to the current also rans in Leinster and Munster to take the fight to Dublin and to Kerry respectively. Let's not be in a race to abandon our brilliant history and heritage of provincial championship - it's something to be cherished and built on, not consigned to history. An open draw would be a novelty but for me would never hold the magic of those annual battles with the neighbours and auld enemies (and friends!).
togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 905 - 14/04/2023 18:05:49
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Replying To PK57: "Louth, Meath, Offaly and Westmeath are all battling to make a provincial final. For Offaly and Meath, unless they make the provincial final then they won't make the AI series, it's very relevant for those teams." Agreed
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 14/04/2023 18:25:24
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Maybe have the provincials as the FA Cup type competitions somewhere in the calendar of League and Championship or League Championship as you say. No league based seeding for provinces, and comletely separate and no relevance to All Ireland championship. It's not a GAA thing to have intercounty competitions run concurrently but, like the FA Cup, they could start Provincials before League finishes. Roll the league out in a longer timeframe so that teams could start championship soon after league finishes, without the staggered championship start times that different size provincial competitions causes.
Be careful what you wish for though when you say 'People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off'. Which people? A TV audience with no county loyalty and don't go to many games? Driving the standard of top football up and the lower standard down to have competitive games might be good for 3 or 4 years but potentially will discourage potential players in so-called weaker counties away from Gaelic football as they see bordering counties play a better brand of football. Difficult to do but I think somehow they need to do more than Tailteann to improve standard if Division 3 and 4 counties. Some other competition where they can test themselves against and learn from counties of a higher standard. The backdoor for all it's faults gave that opportunity and the chance of an upset." I think Prov Championship matches could be relevant by 'doubling them up' as additional group games.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2614 - 14/04/2023 21:51:29
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Maybe have the provincials as the FA Cup type competitions somewhere in the calendar of League and Championship or League Championship as you say. No league based seeding for provinces, and comletely separate and no relevance to All Ireland championship. It's not a GAA thing to have intercounty competitions run concurrently but, like the FA Cup, they could start Provincials before League finishes. Roll the league out in a longer timeframe so that teams could start championship soon after league finishes, without the staggered championship start times that different size provincial competitions causes.
Be careful what you wish for though when you say 'People want to see the best teams play each other in the summer and there are lots of uncompetitive games in the early stages before the real stuff kicks off'. Which people? A TV audience with no county loyalty and don't go to many games? Driving the standard of top football up and the lower standard down to have competitive games might be good for 3 or 4 years but potentially will discourage potential players in so-called weaker counties away from Gaelic football as they see bordering counties play a better brand of football. Difficult to do but I think somehow they need to do more than Tailteann to improve standard if Division 3 and 4 counties. Some other competition where they can test themselves against and learn from counties of a higher standard. The backdoor for all it's faults gave that opportunity and the chance of an upset." I think there's an argument to keep the provincial championships give a good few counties a realistic chance of silverware but all Ireland series should be like ladies and club structure junior intermediate &senior 12 teams in each 4 groups of 3 teams junior and intermediate winning teams promoted one relegated from senior and intermediate each year
Sinbin (Wicklow) - Posts: 15 - 14/04/2023 21:57:58
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This is how I see the seeding going at the minute based on Provinical chances and league position
Kerry, Dublin, Derry, Galway
Clare, Louth, Armagh, Sligo
Mayo, Roscommon, Tyrone, Monaghan
Donegal, Cork, Kildare, Westmeath
Dublin and Kerry are miles in front of everyone in their provinces so you nearly want to be winning Ulster and Connacht to avoid them.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 355 - 15/04/2023 12:34:59
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Replying To Jjoniel79: "It's not a product.
It's a culture, a way of life. It's not about always winning and competing at the top - it's about the hope of someday achieving something truly special.
Keep your English league rubbish.
The teams I feel sorry for are the likes of Dublin over the 6 year run and Kerry in Munster, where winning became and is boring and in the end is hardly celebrated.
Look at what it meant for us in Monaghan to win their first in 30 odd years, Tipp during covid winning, Cavan beating Tyrone in the final. In fact I'd swap winning 10 division 2 leagues if it meant we got the win over Tyrone this weekend.. Roscommon and Clare, would likely do the same for the results they've achieved.
As a Wexford man you'd surely care more about getting a win over Dublin this year than winning a div 3 title next year?!
The GAA is not about selling games on tv like soccer, it's about much much more than that - on one beautiful day." That's a great post
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12028 - 15/04/2023 13:06:02
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Who are the people who believe that provincial championships are irrelevant. I don't believe that many of them attend league or championship games regularly. GAA is about community and local rivalry. The 'we'll have more games between the big teams' crowd see the GAA as some sort of off-shoot of the Premier league; a commercial entity, where every team are measured by titles won. That's not real world. A Cavan win over Monaghan, Roscommon over Mayo, Meath over Dublin, that's pure entertainment. Yes we all want to win the all-Ireland. However, in an amateur sport, built on passion and 'tribalism', there are more parameters than one.
Fontofwisdom (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 15/04/2023 17:25:37
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Stop taking the utterings of pundits -puke football, blanket defence, defensive play- as your own. If the 15 lads or girls who represent you believe that setting up to contain the opposition is the best means by which to win, and thus to allow you to celebrate a victory, giving up 6 months of their lives getting into shape to do so, maybe you should acknowledge their efforts. This nonsense about the state of gaelic football was driven by certain pundits, simply because the opposition were finding ways to beat their counties. When did Italy, Germany, Greece, decide that playing like Brazil was more important than being pragmatic, and winning. Why celebrate the success of Joe Schmitts Ireland, who won in their own way, and attack your own players for trying to give you success. That's the only change you need to make.
Fontofwisdom (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 15/04/2023 17:39:58
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Replying To Fontofwisdom: "Stop taking the utterings of pundits -puke football, blanket defence, defensive play- as your own. If the 15 lads or girls who represent you believe that setting up to contain the opposition is the best means by which to win, and thus to allow you to celebrate a victory, giving up 6 months of their lives getting into shape to do so, maybe you should acknowledge their efforts. This nonsense about the state of gaelic football was driven by certain pundits, simply because the opposition were finding ways to beat their counties. When did Italy, Germany, Greece, decide that playing like Brazil was more important than being pragmatic, and winning. Why celebrate the success of Joe Schmitts Ireland, who won in their own way, and attack your own players for trying to give you success. That's the only change you need to make." Meant to post in the changes needed in Gaelic football thread.
Fontofwisdom (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 15/04/2023 20:25:12
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The provincial championships just have a few flaws to iron out. The first is seeding for the draws based on league performance. The second flaw is something counties have voted to retain. A Leinster county could move to Connacht Championship. Two Leinster counties could move to the Munster Championship. Motions for moving counties have not gained support. The decision should be accepted unless the winds of change bring support for it in the future.
Provincial Seedings that could have been applied for 2023:
ULSTER
1. Tyrone
2. Monaghan
3. Derry
4. Armagh
5. Donegal
6. Cavan
7. Fermanagh
8. Down
9. Antrim
Preliminary: Down v Antrim
Quarter-finals: Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry and Armagh seeded to avoid each other.
Semi-finals: Tyrone and Monaghan seeded to avoid each other.
LEINSTER
1. Dublin
2. Louth
3. Kildare
4. Meath
5. Westmeath
6. Offaly
7. Wicklow
8. Longford
9. Laois
10. Wexford
11. Carlow
Preliminary: Offaly, Wicklow and Longford seeded to avoid each other drawn against Laois, Wexford and Carlow.
Quarter-finals: Dublin, Louth, Kildare and Meath seeded to avoid each other.
Semi-finals: Dublin and Louth seeded to avoid each other.
MUNSTER
1. Kerry
2. Cork
3. Clare
4. Limerick
5. Tipperary
6. Waterford
Quarter-finals: Clare and Limerick seeded to avoid each other drawn against Tipperary and Waterford.
Semi-finals: Kerry and Cork seeded to avoid each other.
CONNACHT
1. Mayo
2. Galway
3. Roscommon
4. Sligo
5. Leitrim
6. London
7. New York
Quarter-finals: Keep the rotation of playing London and New York. Mayo given bye to semi-finals. Galway v Roscommon is a resulting default fixture due to the London and New York rotation policy.
Semi-finals: Mayo and Galway seeded to avoid each other.
Note: Provincial draws should take place on the Monday morning after the league finals. The only fixtures that require advanced planning are the trips to London and New York. The remaining fixtures and TV schedules can be sorted out within a day of the provincial draws.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 16/04/2023 09:02:28
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The Provincial Championship is nothing more than a support act to the league now a days. For me, it kind of knocks the stuffing out of the season when its on..
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 16/04/2023 16:15:43
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Replying To Ban: "The Provincial Championship is nothing more than a support act to the league now a days. For me, it kind of knocks the stuffing out of the season when its on.." Seems harsh. The shorter timeline is an improvement. A week or two between each round.
Noone talks about winning a league. Managers don't dismiss the provincials when they are knocked out. Provincial winners stand out more than league winners.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 16/04/2023 17:23:51
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Replying To Ban: "The Provincial Championship is nothing more than a support act to the league now a days. For me, it kind of knocks the stuffing out of the season when its on.." I take it you weren't watching the Monaghan Tyrone game
points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 242 - 16/04/2023 18:04:41
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Replying To legendzxix: "The provincial championships just have a few flaws to iron out. The first is seeding for the draws based on league performance. The second flaw is something counties have voted to retain. A Leinster county could move to Connacht Championship. Two Leinster counties could move to the Munster Championship. Motions for moving counties have not gained support. The decision should be accepted unless the winds of change bring support for it in the future.
Provincial Seedings that could have been applied for 2023:
ULSTER
1. Tyrone
2. Monaghan
3. Derry
4. Armagh
5. Donegal
6. Cavan
7. Fermanagh
8. Down
9. Antrim
Preliminary: Down v Antrim
Quarter-finals: Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry and Armagh seeded to avoid each other.
Semi-finals: Tyrone and Monaghan seeded to avoid each other.
LEINSTER
1. Dublin
2. Louth
3. Kildare
4. Meath
5. Westmeath
6. Offaly
7. Wicklow
8. Longford
9. Laois
10. Wexford
11. Carlow
Preliminary: Offaly, Wicklow and Longford seeded to avoid each other drawn against Laois, Wexford and Carlow.
Quarter-finals: Dublin, Louth, Kildare and Meath seeded to avoid each other.
Semi-finals: Dublin and Louth seeded to avoid each other.
MUNSTER
1. Kerry
2. Cork
3. Clare
4. Limerick
5. Tipperary
6. Waterford
Quarter-finals: Clare and Limerick seeded to avoid each other drawn against Tipperary and Waterford.
Semi-finals: Kerry and Cork seeded to avoid each other.
CONNACHT
1. Mayo
2. Galway
3. Roscommon
4. Sligo
5. Leitrim
6. London
7. New York
Quarter-finals: Keep the rotation of playing London and New York. Mayo given bye to semi-finals. Galway v Roscommon is a resulting default fixture due to the London and New York rotation policy.
Semi-finals: Mayo and Galway seeded to avoid each other.
Note: Provincial draws should take place on the Monday morning after the league finals. The only fixtures that require advanced planning are the trips to London and New York. The remaining fixtures and TV schedules can be sorted out within a day of the provincial draws." With certain soccer tournaments (e.g. South American Copa America and CONCACAF Gold Cup) having 'temporary guest teams', could this not refresh the Prov SFCs as well? (Galway's permanent status in Lein SHC has been a resounding success).
Taking your Prov seeds, say 'each Prov top 4' (1v4 & 2v3) plays in Preliminary SFs [e.g. two Ulster winners to Ulster SFs, one drawn loser guests to Lein QFs, one drawn loser guests to Conn QFs (also drawn, Lein losers to Muns/Uls, Muns losers to Conn/Lein & Conn losers to Uls/Muns).
Also 'each Prov 2nd 4' (after Lein reallocation of 3 teams, 5v8 & 6v7) plays Preliminary QFs [e.g. two Ulster winners to Ulster QFs, two losers are out].
Four Prov Champs to 'old-style' AI KO SFs.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2614 - 16/04/2023 18:13:36
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better tell that to the monaghan lads quickly before they meet cavan
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 456 - 16/04/2023 20:24:32
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keep them going Fermanagh need to win Ulster once
highdropingball (Donegal) - Posts: 99 - 17/04/2023 01:53:28
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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet: "I take it you weren't watching the Monaghan Tyrone game" I was and really enjoyed it. I've enjoyed lots of provincial matches over the last number of years. My post is based on a number of years and not just one day. We are kicking off what's meant to be one of the more important competitions in our calender year. Today we had one game!
Ulster is always good but I already know that either Rosscommon or Galway will win Connacht, Kerry will win Munster and Dublin will win Leinster. I guess I just think we could have something far better.
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 17/04/2023 09:27:46
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Replying To Ban: "I was and really enjoyed it. I've enjoyed lots of provincial matches over the last number of years. My post is based on a number of years and not just one day. We are kicking off what's meant to be one of the more important competitions in our calender year. Today we had one game!
Ulster is always good but I already know that either Rosscommon or Galway will win Connacht, Kerry will win Munster and Dublin will win Leinster. I guess I just think we could have something far better." Easy to say Connacht is between Roscommon and Galway, as Mayo are out. You wouldn't have said that 10 days ago. Provincial titles are well worth fighting for. Tell any Monaghan or Roscommon person that they are irrelevant and see the response you will get. Neither will win the All Ireland this year. They won't turn their nose up at a provincial piece of silver ware
eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 1663 - 17/04/2023 09:47:13
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