|
1. Westmeath -78 and 0 points.
2. Laois -63 and 0 points.
3. Warwickshire -47 and 0 points.
Three teams were whitewashed in the regular league phase. None of them have been automatically relegated. Warwickshire in Division 3B cannot be relegated as there is no lower division. Westmeath and Laois after being whitewashed get to do battle in a relegation playoff to earn the opportunity to be whitewashed next year.
It is farcical. No wonder supporters are questioning the value of €18 for league games. The bottom teams in both Division 1 groups should be relegated or else Division 1B for 7th to 12th should be brought back for a fairer level of competition. Clare, Dublin, Antrim, Wexford, Laois and Westmeath is a fairer level of competition.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 21/03/2023 21:14:35
2465638
Link
1
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "1. Westmeath -78 and 0 points.
2. Laois -63 and 0 points.
3. Warwickshire -47 and 0 points.
Three teams were whitewashed in the regular league phase. None of them have been automatically relegated. Warwickshire in Division 3B cannot be relegated as there is no lower division. Westmeath and Laois after being whitewashed get to do battle in a relegation playoff to earn the opportunity to be whitewashed next year.
It is farcical. No wonder supporters are questioning the value of €18 for league games. The bottom teams in both Division 1 groups should be relegated or else Division 1B for 7th to 12th should be brought back for a fairer level of competition. Clare, Dublin, Antrim, Wexford, Laois and Westmeath is a fairer level of competition." No point in rubbing it in to these teams you mentioned, we can't level the playing field for everyone, no quick fix out there, there will always be elite teams in hurling and bridging that gap is monstrous.
Kildare, offaly or kerry will be no better either next year looking at the standard in 2a compared to other years.
As I said before 4 division hurling league, 8 team division 1,9 team div 2,8 team div 3 and 9 division 4 teams.
Two groups in division 1not working either, not enough games etc.
The gaa are killing hurling, we have the best field game in the world a national treasure and they can't stop tinkering with the game, rules, cramming in the season etc which will lead to player burnout, kerry and offaly whoever wins next weekend will be playing 7 weeks in a row which is disgraceful
preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 733 - 22/03/2023 11:02:20
2465692
Link
2
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "1. Westmeath -78 and 0 points.
2. Laois -63 and 0 points.
3. Warwickshire -47 and 0 points.
Three teams were whitewashed in the regular league phase. None of them have been automatically relegated. Warwickshire in Division 3B cannot be relegated as there is no lower division. Westmeath and Laois after being whitewashed get to do battle in a relegation playoff to earn the opportunity to be whitewashed next year.
It is farcical. No wonder supporters are questioning the value of €18 for league games. The bottom teams in both Division 1 groups should be relegated or else Division 1B for 7th to 12th should be brought back for a fairer level of competition. Clare, Dublin, Antrim, Wexford, Laois and Westmeath is a fairer level of competition." When the change was made we were in 1a and the few years previous but yes based on this year they are the 6 teams that should be in tier 2. But why the fixation with calling it 1b. It is actually a second division and should be called division 2.
I agree we need to go back to that set up though. Do away with stupid semi finals and finals. If you finish top you should win your division. That will mean a longer break until championship for everyone. And 2 up 2 down so probably no dead rubber games.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11714 - 22/03/2023 11:22:31
2465710
Link
1
|
|
The top counties have the whole thing sown up in hurling. They are happy for Westmeath, Laois, Antrim to yo-yo between leagues, and Liam McCarthy status because it has zero effect on them. The top counties couldn't give a *****.
But the effect they have on the morale of hurling people in these counties, and counties who might have an interest in putting resources in to the game, is huge.
If you were a Westmeath or Laois hurler, wouldn't you argue why would you bother your backside training, working on your game, etc when the best they offer is what these counties get offered?
I have 100% come to the conclusion that the attitude is that once there's a good Munster Final (which there was for the first time in a few years last year) then as far as pundits, supporters, top counties are concerned everything is fine with the game of hurling....who cares about Kildare, Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, etc.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1119 - 22/03/2023 11:41:21
2465718
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "The top counties have the whole thing sown up in hurling. They are happy for Westmeath, Laois, Antrim to yo-yo between leagues, and Liam McCarthy status because it has zero effect on them. The top counties couldn't give a *****.
But the effect they have on the morale of hurling people in these counties, and counties who might have an interest in putting resources in to the game, is huge.
If you were a Westmeath or Laois hurler, wouldn't you argue why would you bother your backside training, working on your game, etc when the best they offer is what these counties get offered?
I have 100% come to the conclusion that the attitude is that once there's a good Munster Final (which there was for the first time in a few years last year) then as far as pundits, supporters, top counties are concerned everything is fine with the game of hurling....who cares about Kildare, Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, etc." Unfair to blame the top counties. A motion to make hurling mandatory for young players was knocked down at congress by the weaker counties not the stronger ones. Underage is where you start with hurling not at intercounty. Then it will take many years of hammerings before finally making it to the top. Its not easy but thats what makes the game great.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 22/03/2023 11:52:33
2465724
Link
0
|
|
Going to four divisions would also allow for for more meaningful games for players in the lower divisions, Longford has three senior teams, there is no league only championship played on a round robin basis. How is a standard meant to improve if players cant play games?
keepitlit (Longford) - Posts: 33 - 22/03/2023 11:59:32
2465726
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ZUL10: "Unfair to blame the top counties. A motion to make hurling mandatory for young players was knocked down at congress by the weaker counties not the stronger ones. Underage is where you start with hurling not at intercounty. Then it will take many years of hammerings before finally making it to the top. Its not easy but thats what makes the game great." Spot on. It was a Wexford man with strong Clare connections who proposed it through his club. All the other top counties backed it. It didn't go through.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11714 - 22/03/2023 12:14:37
2465734
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "The top counties have the whole thing sown up in hurling. They are happy for Westmeath, Laois, Antrim to yo-yo between leagues, and Liam McCarthy status because it has zero effect on them. The top counties couldn't give a *****.
But the effect they have on the morale of hurling people in these counties, and counties who might have an interest in putting resources in to the game, is huge.
If you were a Westmeath or Laois hurler, wouldn't you argue why would you bother your backside training, working on your game, etc when the best they offer is what these counties get offered?
I have 100% come to the conclusion that the attitude is that once there's a good Munster Final (which there was for the first time in a few years last year) then as far as pundits, supporters, top counties are concerned everything is fine with the game of hurling....who cares about Kildare, Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, etc." You can make that claim against Munster counties alright when you see Kerry minors and u20s competing in Leinster championship and how long it took for their seniors to get the opportunity to join the Munster championship without play offs etc. but what roadblocks have the top 4 teams in Leinster put in place? You can't have a closed shop for the top 9 counties that would be just wrong but once you have an open shop teams will always yo-yo, you see it in football too with Roscommon consistently getting promoted and relegated over the last decade.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1663 - 22/03/2023 12:25:04
2465736
Link
0
|
|
Have it like the football, Division 1, 2, 3 etc, meaningful league at the moment the top teams win one game and they safe from relegation
lefty (Wexford) - Posts: 185 - 22/03/2023 12:28:32
2465737
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ZUL10: "Unfair to blame the top counties. A motion to make hurling mandatory for young players was knocked down at congress by the weaker counties not the stronger ones. Underage is where you start with hurling not at intercounty. Then it will take many years of hammerings before finally making it to the top. Its not easy but thats what makes the game great." Because why should hurling be made mandatory and not football?
Despite what the likes of Donal Og and others say they have no interest, outside of self interest, in anything being done.
Donal Og has recently developed a pripe with Kerry for some reason. A county doing well in hurling considering it has football to deal with. What's happened to his concern about Cork hurling? Does he not care now because he's not going to get a Cork job? Is his gripe with Kerry because he applied and didn't get a job with them?
On the subject of the topic. It makes no sense to put the winner of 2A straight into 1A. In reality the likes of Westmeath, Laois etc should be in 1B along with the likes of Dublin, Wexford etc at the moment.
The whole league from the top teams down doesn't help anyone. Wicklow for example at the start of the 2010s looked to be making progress but couldn't push on as they tended to be too strong for 2B but couldn't make headway in 2A. Armagh are another example of it.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 22/03/2023 12:49:29
2465745
Link
0
|
|
Replying To preddan: "No point in rubbing it in to these teams you mentioned, we can't level the playing field for everyone, no quick fix out there, there will always be elite teams in hurling and bridging that gap is monstrous.
Kildare, offaly or kerry will be no better either next year looking at the standard in 2a compared to other years.
As I said before 4 division hurling league, 8 team division 1,9 team div 2,8 team div 3 and 9 division 4 teams.
Two groups in division 1not working either, not enough games etc.
The gaa are killing hurling, we have the best field game in the world a national treasure and they can't stop tinkering with the game, rules, cramming in the season etc which will lead to player burnout, kerry and offaly whoever wins next weekend will be playing 7 weeks in a row which is disgraceful" I'm not rubbing it in. Availing of the opportunity and timing to highlight that whoever is bottom of their league group should be relegated. Otherwise there should be a return to 1A for 1 to 6 and 1B for 7 to 12.
Antrim and Westmeath are in the Leinster championship. Laois were only relegated from Leinster last year. Antrim, Westmeath and Laois being in the same division as the lower 3 of the top 9 is a fair level of competition.
If the 2A format was applied to 1B of Clare, Dublin, Wexford, Antrim, Laois and Westmeath;
1B semi-final: Dublin v Wexford
1B final: Clare v Dublin/Wexford, winner promoted. 6th in 1A relegated.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 22/03/2023 13:13:33
2465759
Link
0
|
|
Hurling league probably does need a change but groups of 8 is the worst option of all in my opinion given the disparagey in quality between teams, take Division 2 you'd have Dublin or Wexford at 1 end and Carlow or Down at the other, in the next division you'd have one if Carlow or Down at the top and maybe a team from Div 3A at the bottom, gaps in quality would be too vast.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1663 - 22/03/2023 13:24:02
2465765
Link
0
|
|
Replying To oneoff: "Because why should hurling be made mandatory and not football?
Despite what the likes of Donal Og and others say they have no interest, outside of self interest, in anything being done.
Donal Og has recently developed a pripe with Kerry for some reason. A county doing well in hurling considering it has football to deal with. What's happened to his concern about Cork hurling? Does he not care now because he's not going to get a Cork job? Is his gripe with Kerry because he applied and didn't get a job with them?
On the subject of the topic. It makes no sense to put the winner of 2A straight into 1A. In reality the likes of Westmeath, Laois etc should be in 1B along with the likes of Dublin, Wexford etc at the moment.
The whole league from the top teams down doesn't help anyone. Wicklow for example at the start of the 2010s looked to be making progress but couldn't push on as they tended to be too strong for 2B but couldn't make headway in 2A. Armagh are another example of it." Both should be. There's no county in Ireland where a lad doesn't have a football club near enough to him. Plenty of counties where that isn't the case for hurling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11714 - 22/03/2023 13:38:40
2465768
Link
1
|
|
Replying To preddan: "No point in rubbing it in to these teams you mentioned, we can't level the playing field for everyone, no quick fix out there, there will always be elite teams in hurling and bridging that gap is monstrous.
Kildare, offaly or kerry will be no better either next year looking at the standard in 2a compared to other years.
As I said before 4 division hurling league, 8 team division 1,9 team div 2,8 team div 3 and 9 division 4 teams.
Two groups in division 1not working either, not enough games etc.
The gaa are killing hurling, we have the best field game in the world a national treasure and they can't stop tinkering with the game, rules, cramming in the season etc which will lead to player burnout, kerry and offaly whoever wins next weekend will be playing 7 weeks in a row which is disgraceful" Imagine that was Limerick or Kilkenny being expected to tog out 7 weeks in a row, it wouldn't happen.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1898 - 22/03/2023 13:44:34
2465773
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Bon: "Imagine that was Limerick or Kilkenny being expected to tog out 7 weeks in a row, it wouldn't happen." yeah its terrible, that definitely wouldn't be let happen to any Liam McCarthy competing team.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1663 - 22/03/2023 14:03:39
2465777
Link
0
|
|
Replying To oneoff: "Because why should hurling be made mandatory and not football?
Despite what the likes of Donal Og and others say they have no interest, outside of self interest, in anything being done.
Donal Og has recently developed a pripe with Kerry for some reason. A county doing well in hurling considering it has football to deal with. What's happened to his concern about Cork hurling? Does he not care now because he's not going to get a Cork job? Is his gripe with Kerry because he applied and didn't get a job with them?
On the subject of the topic. It makes no sense to put the winner of 2A straight into 1A. In reality the likes of Westmeath, Laois etc should be in 1B along with the likes of Dublin, Wexford etc at the moment.
The whole league from the top teams down doesn't help anyone. Wicklow for example at the start of the 2010s looked to be making progress but couldn't push on as they tended to be too strong for 2B but couldn't make headway in 2A. Armagh are another example of it." The "likes" of Dublin who have beaten all of the top teams at some stage in league or championship or both in last ten years?
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2518 - 22/03/2023 14:07:09
2465779
Link
0
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "1. Westmeath -78 and 0 points.
2. Laois -63 and 0 points.
3. Warwickshire -47 and 0 points.
Three teams were whitewashed in the regular league phase. None of them have been automatically relegated. Warwickshire in Division 3B cannot be relegated as there is no lower division. Westmeath and Laois after being whitewashed get to do battle in a relegation playoff to earn the opportunity to be whitewashed next year.
It is farcical. No wonder supporters are questioning the value of €18 for league games. The bottom teams in both Division 1 groups should be relegated or else Division 1B for 7th to 12th should be brought back for a fairer level of competition. Clare, Dublin, Antrim, Wexford, Laois and Westmeath is a fairer level of competition." But how are the Westmeath and Laois hurlers going to get better if they don't get to play against the top counties? Ringfencing the 8 or 9 tier 1 teams will only stunt the progress of the second tier counties. Instead of removing Westmeath and Laois it would be much better to add another team or two into Division 1A and 1B. A seven or eight team group would give a nice balance of matches to both tier 1 and tier 2 counties. Replacing the provincial round robins with the League wouldn't be a bad idea too.
As for Warwickshire I'm not sure what the story is there. But I'd imagine they're reliant on immigrants to field a team, so maybe their supply of players has been limited lately?
Báireoir (Dublin) - Posts: 80 - 22/03/2023 14:26:44
2465787
Link
0
|
|
Replying To BarneyGrant: "The "likes" of Dublin who have beaten all of the top teams at some stage in league or championship or both in last ten years?" Same as Wexford Barney. We have both won Leinster titles in the last 10 years; )
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11714 - 22/03/2023 14:58:35
2465804
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Báireoir: "But how are the Westmeath and Laois hurlers going to get better if they don't get to play against the top counties? Ringfencing the 8 or 9 tier 1 teams will only stunt the progress of the second tier counties. Instead of removing Westmeath and Laois it would be much better to add another team or two into Division 1A and 1B. A seven or eight team group would give a nice balance of matches to both tier 1 and tier 2 counties. Replacing the provincial round robins with the League wouldn't be a bad idea too.
As for Warwickshire I'm not sure what the story is there. But I'd imagine they're reliant on immigrants to field a team, so maybe their supply of players has been limited lately?" In Division 1B (7 to 12) Westmeath, Laois and Antrim would have 2 games against each other and 3 games against the top 9. They can learn their lessons from the 3 tough games but also target 2 winnable games. Antrim wouldn't be far off challenging the top 3 in 1B.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 22/03/2023 15:00:03
2465806
Link
0
|
|
The only impact of a 1A and 1B style championship would be the top 6 to get stronger and everybody else to fall further off the pace.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1119 - 22/03/2023 15:15:27
2465815
Link
0
|