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How To Prevent Referee Assaults

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My own take: any hint of verbal abuse or physical abuse from players or coaching staff toward a referree or official = straight red card and fixed-penalty ban. This has to be stamped out of the game. Period. No ifs or buts. Other laws should come in for mass brawls etc.

Its an existential isssue to the sport, and looks dreadful for modest followers or passive viewers. It turns people off the sport and is shown around the world. I appreciate that refereeing at all levels is poor at the best of times and I respect the aggressive dedication of players, but this simply isnt tolerated or wouldnt be tolerated in any other sport.

I think people who make excuses for this behaviour and shout from sidelines and add to this macho culture need to be systematically educated out of existence in the coming 10/20 years, as I think thats what much of this comes down to.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 597 - 06/03/2023 18:34:15    2462412

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My tuppence worth for what it's worth..why is there a total lack of respect from players towards officials..free against them they give out..if a ref is booking them they don't listen,they are pointing at other things or nothing at someone.ive seen players walking away while being booked.i watched matches at weekend and over the past few weekends in both hurling and football and have noticed it a lot more..managers on sidelines then giving out to linesman and fourth official..I also agree on the rules situation,no one seems to know and they seem to change week to week..am I being over critical??interesting to even hear whelan and cooper saying players wouldn't know the rules and definitely wouldn't read up on the rules..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2506 - 06/03/2023 20:11:12    2462433

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To bad.monkey:  "And people won't want to hear it but it absolutely starts with verbal abuse of officials being part and parcel and totally accepted

100% correct

Shouting abuse at referees at club level should not be acceptable. Clubs need to make it clear to their members and ban members if needed."
What are you classing as verbal abuse in this post? There is a big difference between shouting at a ref from the stands, telling him you think he made a bad decision etc, and actually assaulting a referee. Both in spirit and law. As a fan of a team who are victims of a poor refereeing performance what is wrong with letting the referee know you aren't happy with them? And how exactly do you stop yourself shouting something at the referee if you are fully engaged in the match you are watching and fully supporting the team you are supporting in it?
If a mechanic does a bad job fixing your car, or you buy food in a takeaway and it's not what you ordered or not cooked properly, or a painter does a bad job painting your house of course you will tell them you aren't happy. If you beat them up over it then that is obviously very wrong of you."
Yes like a team manager can talk to a referee, you can speak to a mechanic who does a bad job but the whole town doesnt need to stand outside the garage shouting abuse at him while you do it.

It seems some people can not actually watch a match without shouting abuse. Pretty pathetic.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 06/03/2023 20:40:58    2462435

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Paudie Clifford was absolutely right… the referee was a disgrace in that match… If a refs performance is bad it should be highlighted the same as a players bad performance….and they are actually getting paid to do the job right… Time the GAA tackled the woefully poor standard of refereeing"
a ref isnt paid that much.
By going down the line of "what about the poor standards of refereeing" shows the problems we have

Officials can be poor and will make mistakes and talking about club level, age grade games dont get anywhere near enough training, support and guidance But Paudie Clifford wasnt correct. Even if the ref was poor. there can be right ways to bring that to light and where and how he did it wasnt the place.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3755 - 06/03/2023 21:30:56    2462442

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "A referee who fails to do his job properly should be called out…. At no time would I tolerate or agree with physical abuse…that's stepping over the line too far.. The GAA have made the referees job more difficult by continually changing the rules… When a referee has to be escorted from the pitch it's hardly because he did a wonderful job…"
Continually changing rules isnt a problem. Look at rugby and how much the laws of rugby can change season to season except in rugby the referees are coached far better, assisted far more and respect in general is far better.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3755 - 06/03/2023 21:32:17    2462444

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Replying To CCFabu:  "Course there is a difference between shouting "for *** sake" or "ara come on ref!" to actual verbal abuse. We all know that difference but plenty will pretend like they are the same in order to excuse the verbal abuse. Nobody is having a go at supporters shouting at a ref for getting a decision wrong (in their eyes), or like I said in the first post - nobody is saying don't make noise and make an atmosphere to try and influence and pressure the opponents and refs to benefit your team. So let's nip that in the bud right now - that's not what I'm talking about in terms of verbal abuse.

In terms of what you say about "the numbers", that podcast I mentioned previously was because of this research. https://www.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/63223707

"Research conducted with 438 referees by Dr. Noel Brick of Ulster University during the 2021 lockdown GAA season revealed that 94% had suffered verbal abuse while 23% had suffered physical abuse."

Nearly a quarter of 438 refs have suffered physical abuse per this research. And nearly all of them have had verbal abuse. So if you're saying practically 4 out 4 refs being verbally abused, with 1 out of 4 of them being physically abused, isn't linked? Does the physical abuse just happen in a wee part of the pitch all on its own, totally divorced from everything else going on?

Like I said, people would want to grow up. We love our sport but it's sport at the end of the day."
I'll take the stats at face value, but you're interpreting them a bit unusually. I'm referring to incidents of physical abuse versus verbal abuse, which would we a much smaller ratio than 1 to 4.
Verbal abuse of ref occurs on multiple occasions at almost every match played. Physical abuse is far rarer thankfully.
The vast majority of the thousands of people who verbally abuse refs regularly throughout the year would never and never have laid a finger on a ref. As thick as they are for verbally abusing a ref, they're not that thick or unhinged.
A person capable of assaulting a ref is linked to that individual's personality and behaviour traits. I don't see it as a natural evolution from verbal abuse at all.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2318 - 06/03/2023 21:54:02    2462448

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Replying To CCFabu:  "People would want to grow up. Unfortunately these things are accepted in the locality. The only way to stop this sort of thing is social shame as antiquated as that sounds. Until you have clubs banning these people and and supporters from the same club and county telling these thugs they're not welcome, it will continue. And people won't want to hear it but it absolutely starts with verbal abuse of officials being part and parcel and totally accepted, encouraged even. You abuse a ref enough verbally and sure the next step is naturally the physical stuff. But people love to wash their hands of that as if they've no influence or impact on these things.

Refs get things wrong and jeez sometimes I'm looking at it thinking they have it out for Donegal or whoever else that day but it is what it is, the ref is only human and all we should be doing as supporters is trying to influence the game positively for our team. Make the noise, make the atmosphere, gee up your team and put pressure on the opponent (and yes, the ref too), but leave the abuse out of it.

There was a good chat on the Second Captains podcast last year around abuse that referees get."
How exactly are you defining the difference between giving out to, or about, the ref from the stands, and actual verbal abuse? Where is the line?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15672 - 07/03/2023 08:02:46    2462451

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Continually changing rules isnt a problem. Look at rugby and how much the laws of rugby can change season to season except in rugby the referees are coached far better, assisted far more and respect in general is far better."
It is a problem when the rules are applied in different ways by different referees…. You are correct in saying that in rugby referees are coached better and assisted better…. At inter county a ref has 6 assistants who never seem to see anything… just 2 on field in rugby to help… Respect has to be earned

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3814 - 07/03/2023 09:23:12    2462458

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "I'll take the stats at face value, but you're interpreting them a bit unusually. I'm referring to incidents of physical abuse versus verbal abuse, which would we a much smaller ratio than 1 to 4.
Verbal abuse of ref occurs on multiple occasions at almost every match played. Physical abuse is far rarer thankfully.
The vast majority of the thousands of people who verbally abuse refs regularly throughout the year would never and never have laid a finger on a ref. As thick as they are for verbally abusing a ref, they're not that thick or unhinged.
A person capable of assaulting a ref is linked to that individual's personality and behaviour traits. I don't see it as a natural evolution from verbal abuse at all."
Sorry, I'm not a stats person at all so if I misunderstand them that's on me. I'm trying to get across that I don't think physical abuse happens in a vacuum, I thought those stats backed that up but as I say, not a stats person at all!

I'd say my use of the words "natural next step" from verbal is physical or whatever I said, is probably OTT in my first post as well. I just think there is a sliding scale in terms of the abuse and I don't think the physical abuse happens as often as 1 in 4 in that research, if the verbal abuse isn't happening at such a high level

CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 163 - 07/03/2023 09:49:34    2462463

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Replying To Viking66:  "How exactly are you defining the difference between giving out to, or about, the ref from the stands, and actual verbal abuse? Where is the line?"
"Ara come on ref" "how did you miss that" "go to specsavers ref" etc etc, vanilla stuff like that, it's shouting it's making noise it's building pressure, but it's nothing abusive.

Calling a ref all the names under the sun and sustaining that throughout the match, getting personal and vindictive, that's verbal abuse.

We know the difference with the infamous sledging stuff as well. A defender poking at a forward for missing a free and saying a sub is warming up because he's coming off is one thing. Going on about that forwards sister or mother or whatever else, is a whole other level.

Everyone knows where the line is, they just like to pretend they don't.

CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 163 - 07/03/2023 09:53:37    2462464

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Replying To CCFabu:  ""Ara come on ref" "how did you miss that" "go to specsavers ref" etc etc, vanilla stuff like that, it's shouting it's making noise it's building pressure, but it's nothing abusive.

Calling a ref all the names under the sun and sustaining that throughout the match, getting personal and vindictive, that's verbal abuse.

We know the difference with the infamous sledging stuff as well. A defender poking at a forward for missing a free and saying a sub is warming up because he's coming off is one thing. Going on about that forwards sister or mother or whatever else, is a whole other level.

Everyone knows where the line is, they just like to pretend they don't."
Agreed bringing someone's family into any abuse is definitely beyond any line. As would be comments about their gender, bodyshape , colour etc. And most obviously any threats.
But I guess what I'm asking is in that survey do refs who say they suffered verbal abuse include remarks like "ah ref you should've gone to specsavers" or "ah ref is there only 1 arm working on you today" etc?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15672 - 07/03/2023 10:06:54    2462467

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agreed bringing someone's family into any abuse is definitely beyond any line. As would be comments about their gender, bodyshape , colour etc. And most obviously any threats.
But I guess what I'm asking is in that survey do refs who say they suffered verbal abuse include remarks like "ah ref you should've gone to specsavers" or "ah ref is there only 1 arm working on you today" etc?"
I just looked at the research paper (it's open access if you go to the Dr Noel Brick twitter account there is a link there) and this is the definition:

"Officials were asked to consider verbal abuse as including, "intimidation, threats of harm, swearing, coercion, harassment, or humiliation" and physical abuse as including, "assault, hitting, punching, slapping, kicking, pushing, head-butting, hair-pulling, or biting". Importantly, participants were asked to respond based on what they considered to be verbal or physical abuse directed toward them. As such, participants answered whether they had experienced these forms of abuse (Yes = 1, No = 2), how frequently they had experienced each form (Every Game = 1, Every Couple of Games = 2, A Couple of Times a Season = 3, Every Few Years = 4, Once or Twice in My Officiating Career = 5), and who they experienced abuse from (selecting any from players, team management or coaches, support staff, club officials, spectators, and others)."

I think the key point there is that they were asked to respond based on what they considered to be verbal or physical abuse. I would be surprised if many refs would be categorising the vanilla stuff you hear at every game as verbal abuse but it is a personal thing as to what the ref feels is abusive themselves I suppose.

CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 163 - 07/03/2023 10:44:17    2462480

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The fact a fella is on here posting that a ref "needing to be escorted off the pitch" is a problem with the refs performance says a lot. No matter how absolutely fecking awful a refereeing performance might be, there is no situation where they should need escorted off a pitch for gods sake. Nothing justifies some of that sort of behaviour from so-called supporters.

CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 163 - 07/03/2023 10:51:07    2462483

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I have came across referees who made a genuine mistake and put a score down on his notebook for the wrong team but when challenged ( with both teams agreeing ) he refused to change it…. How could someone like that deserve respect… A lot of them have a very high opinion of themselves and think they are above making errors

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3814 - 07/03/2023 11:07:39    2462485

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Replying To CCFabu:  "The fact a fella is on here posting that a ref "needing to be escorted off the pitch" is a problem with the refs performance says a lot. No matter how absolutely fecking awful a refereeing performance might be, there is no situation where they should need escorted off a pitch for gods sake. Nothing justifies some of that sort of behaviour from so-called supporters."
So give him a round of applause and tell him he did a wonderful job… get a grip.. He needed escorting off because of the mess he made… Look at the mess Sludden made of the Leinster final when he denied Louth a genuine win.. Did you expect Louth supporters to clap him off… get a grip of yourself.. it's not a bit of wonder we are known as a nanny state…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3814 - 07/03/2023 12:15:43    2462507

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "It is a problem when the rules are applied in different ways by different referees…. You are correct in saying that in rugby referees are coached better and assisted better…. At inter county a ref has 6 assistants who never seem to see anything… just 2 on field in rugby to help… Respect has to be earned"
No it isnt. Refs have to be able interpret rules differently. Many areas of game cant be refereed in exactly the same way every time because its just not possible
At inter county these assistants to the ref arent trained enough. Going respect has to be earned is a cop out by those who dont want any improvements and see abuse as something that is acceptable.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3755 - 07/03/2023 13:24:30    2462525

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5 year bans minimum would help people focus I believe.

We have adults who should be nowhere near minor matches, or any underage match for that matter.

I seem to remember somebody went to jail in Kildare for 3 months for attacking a ref. More of that needed please.

Just waiting now for a tragedy to happen.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2928 - 07/03/2023 13:25:09    2462527

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "So give him a round of applause and tell him he did a wonderful job… get a grip.. He needed escorting off because of the mess he made… Look at the mess Sludden made of the Leinster final when he denied Louth a genuine win.. Did you expect Louth supporters to clap him off… get a grip of yourself.. it's not a bit of wonder we are known as a nanny state…"
No I don't expect anyone to clap a ref off if they're angry at him or even if there's a huge sense of injustice or plain old wrong has been done because of a mistake from the ref but I'm sorry it's not being a "nanny state" to expect grown bloody adults to control their behaviour for gods sake. Grow the hell up will ya

CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 163 - 07/03/2023 13:33:20    2462531

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Paudie Clifford was absolutely right… the referee was a disgrace in that match… If a refs performance is bad it should be highlighted the same as a players bad performance….and they are actually getting paid to do the job right… Time the GAA tackled the woefully poor standard of refereeing"
While I don't agree with Clifford calling out the Ref in his speech I do believe a referees performance should be open to discussion at some level after a game. But they also need far more input from their linesman and umpires.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2308 - 07/03/2023 13:40:23    2462533

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Replying To KillingFields:  "No it isnt. Refs have to be able interpret rules differently. Many areas of game cant be refereed in exactly the same way every time because its just not possible
At inter county these assistants to the ref arent trained enough. Going respect has to be earned is a cop out by those who dont want any improvements and see abuse as something that is acceptable."
No cop out …. Earn respect and you will get it.. No training means no good so it's poor by the GAA so..

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3814 - 07/03/2023 13:49:10    2462537

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