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Replying To tomsmith: "Tomsmith here
I have watched many games of football in my life including footage of our great victory in Gaelic Park New York in 1947 , when we beat Kerry in an All Ireland final played in New York. Aye and beat them well. But the the game now has deteriated to the extent that people will soon be looking for money to go to sit and watch a game.
Ough even down in Junior football in some Counties it is all possession sure it is now gone like the beautiful game you could fall asleep and miss nothing.
Them two or three individuals who were responsible for this new possession culture should receive a life time ban from the GAA." Its funny that despite many people agree with your sentiment, it doesnt appear to impact attendences.
I know several people like you who keep groaning that the way things are going nobody will go to games.... but the following week I see the same individuals in the terraces!
This is because the GAA has good entertaining products. Sure the game has evolved from a game that was akin to Austrailian Rules ( fong the ball forward at every opportunity) , to a more measured approach that is more akin to soccer.
Either way its great. I for one , prefer the latter variant and can appreciate some of things that some others dislike i.e. the ability and fitness levels of guys to get up and down the field and defend, the extra effort, inventiveness and skills required to breakdown these structures.
Sometimes when teams fail to break this down it can lead to poorer quality games , but you have to kiss a few frogs to get the prince. In older times there were less frogs, but a lot less princes ( in my opinion)
,
anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 10/02/2023 12:54:15
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Replying To tomsmith: "Tomsmith here
I have read over and over again your comments , some intelligent contributions and some of the other type particularly one ..
I feel that the Coaches who set out to change/alter/ destroy the Gaa game as we used to know it should be ousted from the Gaa
If a number of people did this to the National Sport in any other Country , if would be considered ( What will I xall it) a crime" I get your frustration TomSmith with some of the current tactics in the modern game. I thoroughly enjoyed Armagh/Mayo played in front of a capacity attendance at the Athletics Grounds last Sunday. Yes, mistakes were made but we had two physical, mobile teams having an honest cut . Galway/ Mayo wasn't bad either despite the weather conditions.A lot depends on the attitude of the teams and coaches. The great Dublin team didn't have a handbrake , they just went for it once they got a yard ahead or had an overlap. They only recycled when faced with a mass defence.
Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 504 - 10/02/2023 13:02:36
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Replying To anotheralias: "Its funny that despite many people agree with your sentiment, it doesnt appear to impact attendences.
I know several people like you who keep groaning that the way things are going nobody will go to games.... but the following week I see the same individuals in the terraces!
This is because the GAA has good entertaining products. Sure the game has evolved from a game that was akin to Austrailian Rules ( fong the ball forward at every opportunity) , to a more measured approach that is more akin to soccer.
Either way its great. I for one , prefer the latter variant and can appreciate some of things that some others dislike i.e. the ability and fitness levels of guys to get up and down the field and defend, the extra effort, inventiveness and skills required to breakdown these structures.
Sometimes when teams fail to break this down it can lead to poorer quality games , but you have to kiss a few frogs to get the prince. In older times there were less frogs, but a lot less princes ( in my opinion)
," Attendance figures have dropped at least 30% in the last 10 years… most people with a functioning brain would not pay in good money to get bored to tears for 70/80 minutes… some games might be ok but are few and far between…. All hand passing and kicking the ball backwards… The rugby lads kick it forward more often
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1900 - 10/02/2023 13:23:24
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Replying To Curlew66: "I get your frustration TomSmith with some of the current tactics in the modern game. I thoroughly enjoyed Armagh/Mayo played in front of a capacity attendance at the Athletics Grounds last Sunday. Yes, mistakes were made but we had two physical, mobile teams having an honest cut . Galway/ Mayo wasn't bad either despite the weather conditions.A lot depends on the attitude of the teams and coaches. The great Dublin team didn't have a handbrake , they just went for it once they got a yard ahead or had an overlap. They only recycled when faced with a mass defence." Donegal cured Dublin's naivety in 2014 unfortunately :P
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 10/02/2023 13:25:29
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The days of winning your own ball and taking on your opponent and beating him with a sidestep or sheer speed is long gone.
That's why they keep showing Owen Mulligans dummy over and over again. It's a rarity.
Win your ball put your hand up, call a mark is the norm now.
Play it across the back 6, and then back to the keeper time and time again.
Glorified basketball is best to describe it.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 10/02/2023 13:32:11
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Replying To anotheralias: "Its funny that despite many people agree with your sentiment, it doesnt appear to impact attendences.
I know several people like you who keep groaning that the way things are going nobody will go to games.... but the following week I see the same individuals in the terraces!
This is because the GAA has good entertaining products. Sure the game has evolved from a game that was akin to Austrailian Rules ( fong the ball forward at every opportunity) , to a more measured approach that is more akin to soccer.
Either way its great. I for one , prefer the latter variant and can appreciate some of things that some others dislike i.e. the ability and fitness levels of guys to get up and down the field and defend, the extra effort, inventiveness and skills required to breakdown these structures.
Sometimes when teams fail to break this down it can lead to poorer quality games , but you have to kiss a few frogs to get the prince. In older times there were less frogs, but a lot less princes ( in my opinion)
," Nobody is questioning the fitness levels.
But I'd question why players have to consistently handpass going forward when within the opposing 40m line.
Is it that they can't take a score from 30/40 M or are they afraid of it dropping short and losing possession?
As regards the crowds I've seen 25 thousand at a 2nd rate Ulster Championship 1st round between Cavan and Monaghan. With neither having any chance of winning Ulster.
These days you wouldn't get the half of that.
Even the all Ireland club final double header you would fit the crowd in a Dunnes Stores car park.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 10/02/2023 14:51:14
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Payed??? Paid...
PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 158 - 10/02/2023 15:44:32
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Replying To Breffni1969: "The days of winning your own ball and taking on your opponent and beating him with a sidestep or sheer speed is long gone.
That's why they keep showing Owen Mulligans dummy over and over again. It's a rarity.
Win your ball put your hand up, call a mark is the norm now.
Play it across the back 6, and then back to the keeper time and time again.
Glorified basketball is best to describe it." Shane Walsh, Tommy Conroy, Mannion, con o Callaghan, Ryan O'Donoghue, Cavanagh, Flynn and many others still all do this.
Sssthe (Mayo) - Posts: 57 - 10/02/2023 16:01:36
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Replying To Breffni1969: "Nobody is questioning the fitness levels.
But I'd question why players have to consistently handpass going forward when within the opposing 40m line.
Is it that they can't take a score from 30/40 M or are they afraid of it dropping short and losing possession?
As regards the crowds I've seen 25 thousand at a 2nd rate Ulster Championship 1st round between Cavan and Monaghan. With neither having any chance of winning Ulster.
These days you wouldn't get the half of that.
Even the all Ireland club final double header you would fit the crowd in a Dunnes Stores car park." There were 22,000 at the club finals this year. Given the extreme financial pressure that many people are currently experiencing 22,000 is a decent crowd. When did you see 25,000 at an Ulster Championship match between Cavan and Monaghan and where was it played? I've been attending championship matches since the early seventies. I can remember plenty of All Ireland semi finals which had crowds of between 25,000 and 30,000. I was at the semi final in 1982 between Galway and Offaly. There were 25,000 at it. Kerry played Armagh in the other semi final that year. There were 18,000 at it. In 1990 Cork played Roscommon and there were 33,000 at it. Meath played Donegal and there were 40,000 at it. In 2002 Kerry played Cork and there were 46,000 at it. Armagh and Dublin played and there were 79,500 at it. In 2010 Cork played Dublin and there were 82,000 at it. Down played Kildare and there were 62,000 at it. Last year Galway played Derry and there were 69,000. at it. Kerry played Dublin and there were 73,609 at it. I was at all the games quoted above with the exception of Kerry and Armagh in 1982. As illustrated more recent attendances are very high. This talk about dwindling crowds doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There is a huge demand for live sport across all sports. Why is it with some Cavan contributors to this site the glass is always half empty?
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 10/02/2023 16:55:44
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Replying To Breffni1969: "The days of winning your own ball and taking on your opponent and beating him with a sidestep or sheer speed is long gone.
That's why they keep showing Owen Mulligans dummy over and over again. It's a rarity.
Win your ball put your hand up, call a mark is the norm now.
Play it across the back 6, and then back to the keeper time and time again.
Glorified basketball is best to describe it." Conor McManus beats plenty of Cavan defenders with speed and skill. I agree with you about the mark. It contributes nothing and should be abolished.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 10/02/2023 16:57:42
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Replying To Bon: "That's because generally the people who criticise the game are people that know very little about it. Simple." Bon, hurling is not beyond criticism just like every other field sports. It has it's flaws some of which are glaring. That is also true of other field sports. The tolerance of deeply cynical play still exists. Many hurling people are entirely thin skinned when it comes to the less edifying aspects of the game. Your answer epitomises the arrogance of the hurling snob who thinks that the game is beyond the understanding of sports fans. Having attended fifty All Senior hurling finals and many, many other matches over the years I can assure the game is not beyond the understanding of mere mortals.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 10/02/2023 17:05:54
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Replying To KillingFields: "You're missing the point badly KillingFields. The game is evolving itself. The vast majority of the rule changes in the recent past have been well intentioned but ill judged. The offensive mark is a case in point. That was followed by the defensive mark which epitomised how ridiculous some of the rule changes were and continue to be. Let the game evolve itself. There has been far too much tinkering with the playing rules. Most certainly you can look at player behaviour and introduce rules to deal with that. One intervention that is urgently needed is in relation to how substitutions are made.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5881 - 09/02/2023 11:14:46
Im missing nothing actually. the mark should have been a good thing but its implentation and management of it has been poor. the game wont evolve itself for a long time and that wont be for good of game especially in an era where the sport faces far more challengers/challenges than any time in the past." "The mark should have been a good thing but it's implementation and the management of it has been poor". Enough said. Catch yourself on KillingFields. That's a ridiculous post. What about the defensive mark? Should that have been a good thing too?
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 10/02/2023 17:15:33
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Replying To Sssthe: "Shane Walsh, Tommy Conroy, Mannion, con o Callaghan, Ryan O'Donoghue, Cavanagh, Flynn and many others still all do this." 3/4 of the above named haven't played much football this past year.
Try naming a few that played last year. Clifford Walsh 2 that are worth the entrance fee. Not a lot really out of 2000 inter county players.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 10/02/2023 20:50:01
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Replying To Sssthe: "Shane Walsh, Tommy Conroy, Mannion, con o Callaghan, Ryan O'Donoghue, Cavanagh, Flynn and many others still all do this." James Carr didnt need a Mark for a great goal against Galway , first game of League, neither did PaudieClifford last day against Monaghan, just let the players play.
jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 404 - 11/02/2023 09:48:19
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Better pitches now, better footwear, more training, gym work, Video Analysis, diet plans, supplements,(u should see some of the stuff they are taking!!) sports physcology gurus, GPS tracking, stats man, backs coach, forwards coach, GK coach, trainer, manager etc etc = Handpassing to death, afraid to take shot in case you miss or loose possession,.. Spare me please.. I forgot about all the young lads doing the cruciate at even 17yrs old!!!
I wonder what all this "win at all costs" or the intensive training done to "keep possession at all costs" is doing for the enjoyment of football for players or their mental health or is there any joy for players anymore?? Its the players who take the brunt of it all.. Cant have a few pints after a match, can't have a drink during championship etc. which in itself would be a great mental health excercise. Everybody gets paid except them but in order for the minibus full of mgmt team to get paid well the players must behave. Player welfare my elbow. They are been buried into the ground and lower retirement agee pay testamentto this.. Imagine a player like Michael Murphy never to be seen again for his county.. There are many more like him and what a waste it is!! And before the "football was terrible years ago" brigade get going... Both teams made a litany of mistakes, but nobody noticed and there was enjoyment out of it for everyone including players!! Take the money out of the management brigades, take the pressure off and just let our young people just go out, express themselves on the football field and just play football.
As Eugene McGee said after Offaly won the All Ireland in 1982 "some of our players have made huge sacrifices to win today and haven't had a pint since a Wedensday night" Sean Boylan got Meath over the line over Dublin in 1991 by bringing the players away after the 2nd draw and they had a good knees up and came back and beat Dublin. Life in the GAA has got too serious so I rest my case!!
Inatfullforward (Longford) - Posts: 93 - 11/02/2023 10:50:26
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Replying To Inatfullforward: "Better pitches now, better footwear, more training, gym work, Video Analysis, diet plans, supplements,(u should see some of the stuff they are taking!!) sports physcology gurus, GPS tracking, stats man, backs coach, forwards coach, GK coach, trainer, manager etc etc = Handpassing to death, afraid to take shot in case you miss or loose possession,.. Spare me please.. I forgot about all the young lads doing the cruciate at even 17yrs old!!!
I wonder what all this "win at all costs" or the intensive training done to "keep possession at all costs" is doing for the enjoyment of football for players or their mental health or is there any joy for players anymore?? Its the players who take the brunt of it all.. Cant have a few pints after a match, can't have a drink during championship etc. which in itself would be a great mental health excercise. Everybody gets paid except them but in order for the minibus full of mgmt team to get paid well the players must behave. Player welfare my elbow. They are been buried into the ground and lower retirement agee pay testamentto this.. Imagine a player like Michael Murphy never to be seen again for his county.. There are many more like him and what a waste it is!! And before the "football was terrible years ago" brigade get going... Both teams made a litany of mistakes, but nobody noticed and there was enjoyment out of it for everyone including players!! Take the money out of the management brigades, take the pressure off and just let our young people just go out, express themselves on the football field and just play football.
As Eugene McGee said after Offaly won the All Ireland in 1982 "some of our players have made huge sacrifices to win today and haven't had a pint since a Wedensday night" Sean Boylan got Meath over the line over Dublin in 1991 by bringing the players away after the 2nd draw and they had a good knees up and came back and beat Dublin. Life in the GAA has got too serious so I rest my case!!" Are you going to ban managers, trainers, physios, psychos.....etc etc
Are you going to ban training?
Are you going to ban competitive games?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1403 - 11/02/2023 11:51:05
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Replying To Inatfullforward: "Better pitches now, better footwear, more training, gym work, Video Analysis, diet plans, supplements,(u should see some of the stuff they are taking!!) sports physcology gurus, GPS tracking, stats man, backs coach, forwards coach, GK coach, trainer, manager etc etc = Handpassing to death, afraid to take shot in case you miss or loose possession,.. Spare me please.. I forgot about all the young lads doing the cruciate at even 17yrs old!!!
I wonder what all this "win at all costs" or the intensive training done to "keep possession at all costs" is doing for the enjoyment of football for players or their mental health or is there any joy for players anymore?? Its the players who take the brunt of it all.. Cant have a few pints after a match, can't have a drink during championship etc. which in itself would be a great mental health excercise. Everybody gets paid except them but in order for the minibus full of mgmt team to get paid well the players must behave. Player welfare my elbow. They are been buried into the ground and lower retirement agee pay testamentto this.. Imagine a player like Michael Murphy never to be seen again for his county.. There are many more like him and what a waste it is!! And before the "football was terrible years ago" brigade get going... Both teams made a litany of mistakes, but nobody noticed and there was enjoyment out of it for everyone including players!! Take the money out of the management brigades, take the pressure off and just let our young people just go out, express themselves on the football field and just play football.
As Eugene McGee said after Offaly won the All Ireland in 1982 "some of our players have made huge sacrifices to win today and haven't had a pint since a Wedensday night" Sean Boylan got Meath over the line over Dublin in 1991 by bringing the players away after the 2nd draw and they had a good knees up and came back and beat Dublin. Life in the GAA has got too serious so I rest my case!!" Michael Murphy spent about 15 years as a county player, won an AI medal, got to another AI final, won several provincial titles, multiple all stars and represented his country several times at International Rules. For a player from a non traditional county, that's about as good a career as anyone could hope for so I'm not sure why he's being used as some sort of modern tragedy?
I don't mind a drink here or there but the more time passes the less I try to get involved. Maybe society in Ireland in previous generations didn't have the information as close by about the dangers of alcohol physically, mentally and as a societal problem. But quoting county players bragging about not having a drink since Wednesday isn't exactly a great message to the next generation, is it? That said, I'd have no issue with players having a drink here or there, but if players want to win they have to make the sacrifices their competitors are making and nobody is forcing anyone to play if they'd rather sit down the pub at the weekend. The end of the day, my younger cousin plays at county level, he trains hard, works hard, has a girlfriend, house, car and looks and feels top of the world any time we meet. He doesn't drink but still loves life. Considering the competitive nature of most sports people, drinking usually doesn't mix well with that mindset. Be careful what we class as 'too serious' and 'fun'.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 11/02/2023 12:26:54
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Replying To Inatfullforward: "Better pitches now, better footwear, more training, gym work, Video Analysis, diet plans, supplements,(u should see some of the stuff they are taking!!) sports physcology gurus, GPS tracking, stats man, backs coach, forwards coach, GK coach, trainer, manager etc etc = Handpassing to death, afraid to take shot in case you miss or loose possession,.. Spare me please.. I forgot about all the young lads doing the cruciate at even 17yrs old!!!
I wonder what all this "win at all costs" or the intensive training done to "keep possession at all costs" is doing for the enjoyment of football for players or their mental health or is there any joy for players anymore?? Its the players who take the brunt of it all.. Cant have a few pints after a match, can't have a drink during championship etc. which in itself would be a great mental health excercise. Everybody gets paid except them but in order for the minibus full of mgmt team to get paid well the players must behave. Player welfare my elbow. They are been buried into the ground and lower retirement agee pay testamentto this.. Imagine a player like Michael Murphy never to be seen again for his county.. There are many more like him and what a waste it is!! And before the "football was terrible years ago" brigade get going... Both teams made a litany of mistakes, but nobody noticed and there was enjoyment out of it for everyone including players!! Take the money out of the management brigades, take the pressure off and just let our young people just go out, express themselves on the football field and just play football.
As Eugene McGee said after Offaly won the All Ireland in 1982 "some of our players have made huge sacrifices to win today and haven't had a pint since a Wedensday night" Sean Boylan got Meath over the line over Dublin in 1991 by bringing the players away after the 2nd draw and they had a good knees up and came back and beat Dublin. Life in the GAA has got too serious so I rest my case!!" I'll invite somebody else to tell us all how the GPA are working hard to reduce the amount of training and fatigue and alleviate the pressure on players and especially younger county players. Lord knows they have a nice cosy cartel up and running (taking care of ex County players) and are masters at soundbites so I'm guessing there has to be some substance to them.
Inatfullforward (Longford) - Posts: 93 - 11/02/2023 12:33:26
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Replying To Inatfullforward: "Better pitches now, better footwear, more training, gym work, Video Analysis, diet plans, supplements,(u should see some of the stuff they are taking!!) sports physcology gurus, GPS tracking, stats man, backs coach, forwards coach, GK coach, trainer, manager etc etc = Handpassing to death, afraid to take shot in case you miss or loose possession,.. Spare me please.. I forgot about all the young lads doing the cruciate at even 17yrs old!!!
I wonder what all this "win at all costs" or the intensive training done to "keep possession at all costs" is doing for the enjoyment of football for players or their mental health or is there any joy for players anymore?? Its the players who take the brunt of it all.. Cant have a few pints after a match, can't have a drink during championship etc. which in itself would be a great mental health excercise. Everybody gets paid except them but in order for the minibus full of mgmt team to get paid well the players must behave. Player welfare my elbow. They are been buried into the ground and lower retirement agee pay testamentto this.. Imagine a player like Michael Murphy never to be seen again for his county.. There are many more like him and what a waste it is!! And before the "football was terrible years ago" brigade get going... Both teams made a litany of mistakes, but nobody noticed and there was enjoyment out of it for everyone including players!! Take the money out of the management brigades, take the pressure off and just let our young people just go out, express themselves on the football field and just play football.
As Eugene McGee said after Offaly won the All Ireland in 1982 "some of our players have made huge sacrifices to win today and haven't had a pint since a Wedensday night" Sean Boylan got Meath over the line over Dublin in 1991 by bringing the players away after the 2nd draw and they had a good knees up and came back and beat Dublin. Life in the GAA has got too serious so I rest my case!!" Good post. Your not wrong there.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 11/02/2023 13:07:38
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Michael Murphy spent about 15 years as a county player, won an AI medal, got to another AI final, won several provincial titles, multiple all stars and represented his country several times at International Rules. For a player from a non traditional county, that's about as good a career as anyone could hope for so I'm not sure why he's being used as some sort of modern tragedy?
I don't mind a drink here or there but the more time passes the less I try to get involved. Maybe society in Ireland in previous generations didn't have the information as close by about the dangers of alcohol physically, mentally and as a societal problem. But quoting county players bragging about not having a drink since Wednesday isn't exactly a great message to the next generation, is it? That said, I'd have no issue with players having a drink here or there, but if players want to win they have to make the sacrifices their competitors are making and nobody is forcing anyone to play if they'd rather sit down the pub at the weekend. The end of the day, my younger cousin plays at county level, he trains hard, works hard, has a girlfriend, house, car and looks and feels top of the world any time we meet. He doesn't drink but still loves life. Considering the competitive nature of most sports people, drinking usually doesn't mix well with that mindset. Be careful what we class as 'too serious' and 'fun'." I never once insinuated that players should be drinking but rather in moderation but let's be realistic when young people get together for any social event the vast majority of them enjoy a drink and to be fair a lot of them are more responsible than young people were 20 yrs ago so I would imagine that when consumed responsibly and in moderation there is nothing wrong with alcohol. I've been to so many social events over the years seeing county (and club) players not allowed to have a drink with some of them doing it on the quiet!!, Fair enough not the week or even 2 weeks before a championship game but 2 months plus bans?!! I'm not sure if you are aware but alcohol is not the substance of choice nowadays, yet something far worse that is rampant in every parish in the country!! Strange too that surveys have highlighted serious mental concerns among especially younger players nowadays and there ar campaigns around this. Funny most of those great county players from the past had a balanced social life and they turned out alright with a lot of them reinvesting their time into the GAA. Look I'm by no means saying that we return to the way things were as thats easier said than done but the fun has gone out of it for both supporters and many players and burnout is a serious problem and it's just so unfair on the very people that make it all happen. As for Michael Murphy he did state that he could not give of his best to meet the demands of intercounty football today. I think the clue there is in the word demands. We would take him in Longford on condition he does not retire before 40!!
Inatfullforward (Longford) - Posts: 93 - 11/02/2023 15:27:45
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