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All Ireland Club Final, Kilmacud V Glen (Derry)

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Replying To Gaillimh_Abu: "It is beyond ridiculous that this still happens, particularly in such a big game!. In soccer, the sub is not allowed onto the field by the linesman until the player being replaced comes off at about the same spot. It would be very easy to insist on this process in the GAA but instead we just have an "Ah sure it'll all be grand" attitude towards implementing the rules. The only other sports where I am aware of something like ever happening is in Ice Hockey and American Football and when it happens, the offending team is punished with a too-many-men penalty which can have major consequences. Nobody blames the ref when this happens - everybody recognizes that it is entirely the fault of the management and/or players. The Boston Bruins once lost game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final in overtime after taking a too-many-men penalty when they were a goal up with just over 2 minutes to go. Their coach has never lived it down." That's a good idea. Mightn't be workable if it's not picked up on the field at the time (although I believe it was), but imagine if the standard punishment was, say, a 13-metre free regardless of where the ball was when the infringement was spotted, and/or a suspension for the extra player who was notified he had to go off but failed to. Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1029 - 25/01/2023 21:28:11 2454324 Link
Replying To endgame: "How can you recreate the conditions that existed when the 45 was being taken. Not possible. If there's a replay, it will be a full match. Glen are in a difficult position because the gaa have passed the buck to them." Well, hypothetically speaking (cos it's not gonna happen), the only conditions that need to be worried about are that the same 30 players who should have been on the pitch are on the pitch, that yellow and black cards incurred still stand, that the time elapsed is the same, and the score of course. And I guess if it were to resume in Croke Park, that they're playing into the same end as before. Obviously you're not gonna have a field of lads knackered after running around for 60 minutes plus change, but the only conditions of concern are the technical ones. Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1029 - 25/01/2023 21:42:21 2454325 Link
Replying To RobertBoucher: "Id say the Crokes players are in the steamroom rn sweating the beer out in anticipation of a replay" Underrated!!! Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1029 - 25/01/2023 21:45:19 2454326 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "They had to make an objection. It is in the rule. What did you want the "top brass" to say exactly? Do you expect judges to comment on cases before they are even brought to court? Most likely be a replay now, so people will have to revert back to focusing on Shane Walsh, or their sponsor or that Crokes don't refuse to take any more kids onto teams..." They refused to review it and would only accept an objection....this went out live on tv, tg4 are an independent broadcaster to both teams, a precedent has been set with the Al semi final when tv pictures corrected an error at half time re Shane Walsh 45.....what is the difference?????? totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 916 - 25/01/2023 21:49:31 2454327 Link
Replying To Jack L: "covenient" It was in the Independent this morning, I read it too, but it seems to have been taken down. There were 2 articles up & now only 1. BorderlineBlue (Monaghan) - Posts: 10 - 25/01/2023 21:50:04 2454328 Link
Replying To bad.monkey: "Glen tried to take a quick 45. The refs arm was still up as the substitutions were still in progress. The rule breaking was by the Glens player taking the 45 too quickly. Talk of a replay is madness." I don't think anyone is going to engage with you seriously on this one. You may give it rest. Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 25/01/2023 22:00:45 2454330 Link
Shocking state of affairs really. The level of incompetence at an All Ireland final, ya just couldn't credit it. And a David v Goliath game, hopefully Glen win the replay friedporridge (Leitrim) - Posts: 23 - 26/01/2023 08:40:50 2454332 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "It was an act of pure desperation from Keegan. No doubting a terrible example of sportsmanship. As a Dub you have to get use to the purposely selective condemnation aimed in the direction of the capital.. there's a prejudiced natural bias but feck sake.. the lack of justified noise surrounding that incident confirmed so much for me about the wider GAA community and the purposely selective amnesia when it suits. You'd have to wonder what was going through his head wouldn't you.. yes more than like likely just pure desperation with realising that a lot of emotional hurt was probably coming his way once again. He was an excellent baller but he was also a bit of a boyo. He tried his guts out in every possible way for Mayo.. good and very much dodgy. I think Horan had it driven into them to do whatever it takes to win.. he changed the Mayo nice guy mindset quite a lot during his time. Mayo were incredible rivals though.. incredibly competitive games and AI finals that will go down in GAA lore, well definitely even more if Mayo would have won, because Dublin did I wouldn't be surprised if that selective amnesia played it's part, it's just the way of things but thankfully there's the likes of yourself." I do find some of the comments on here about the GPS thing hilarious. It was poor sportsmanship but what outrage did you want? It was an act designed to put Rock off, not aimed at the man or putting anyone in danger or perhaps causing injury. As someone who always praised Gavin and that Dublin team can you give me an example of the purposely selective condemnation? Of course Keegan was a boyo, but every team needs one. Cooper and McMahon did far, far worse than toss a GPS in someones eyeline but they were still praised for their will to win. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7891 - 26/01/2023 09:20:21 2454336 Link
Replying To totalrecall: "They refused to review it and would only accept an objection....this went out live on tv, tg4 are an independent broadcaster to both teams, a precedent has been set with the Al semi final when tv pictures corrected an error at half time re Shane Walsh 45.....what is the difference??????" The difference is that a mistake on the filed can be changed during the match if it is drawn to attention of officials, either on the field or via Hawkeye, third official. Had the Galway score not been changed and had Derry won by a point then it would have been basis for an appeal. The Crokes subs were either not noticed, nor the proper action taken if they were, Hence the objection, and hence the reference in the rule to objections. If there was no reference or scope for objections then there would be no recourse in most cases. PS. I did apologise to Ulsterman, although I did not sling mud! BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2554 - 26/01/2023 09:39:17 2454340 Link
Replying To Belclare: "Crokes did nothing wrong.. they brought on a sub, the Derry player took the free before substitution was completed, referee should have blown the whistle to stop play, he didn't, ball went wide . Nobody made any issue on the field there and then our after, Joe Brolly got on his horse and started and here we are... Kilmacud won't be playing any replay .. if the Derry lads want the cup that bad I'm sure once kilmacud are finished celebrating they'll send it up.." I think to say Crokes did nothing wrong is a bit strong. So they used the opportunity to make substitutions to slow the play down when Glen were pushing for a winner. Not illegal by any manner or means, cynical maybe, but perfectly legal and WITHIN THE RULES. But if you are doing something cynical WITHIN THE RULES then you need to ABIDE BY THE RULES i.e. take a player off when you bring one on. So I say if you live by the rules , you die by the rules, and in this case they will , correctly, pay the price of a replay. I thing Glen had no choice but to object and I think it's extremely unfair to criticise them. In any case when they game is played again if Kilmacud are good enough they will win it and they will have won the AI without it having a tarnish or an asterisk against it. If they are not good enough and Glen win, then fair play to them too. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 26/01/2023 09:43:13 2454341 Link
Replying To friedporridge: "Shocking state of affairs really. The level of incompetence at an All Ireland final, ya just couldn't credit it. And a David v Goliath game, hopefully Glen win the replay" It was not incompetence, it was just an exciting finish. With no VAR to sort it out. Give the officials a break and stop abuse of Refs please. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 26/01/2023 09:58:19 2454344 Link
Replying To Jack L: "Exactly. Glen has to take some responsibility here. By taking the quick 45 when the referee had his hand up they prevented the substitution from taking place. Crokes were defending a 45 so did you expect them to have a player walk off the pitch in the middle of the attack. While the offending player was on the goal line, the kick actually went wide. He was not interferring with play. As referee had his hand up, the sub was entitled to enter the field. If the Glen player has to obey the referee's hand signal, the offending player would have time to leave the field." "did you expect them to have a player walk off the pitch in the middle of the attack." Yes. Yes. If you bring a player on then you bring a player off. Simple. That's the reason why teams don't normally make a substitution when the other team is on the attack. "He was not interfering with play" So you are saying that you have to touch the ball to interfere with play. He was standing on the goal line. So the goalkeeper and the other player on the goal line were not interfering with play either? I guarantee you if none of those three players were on the goal line then the ball would not have gone wide. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 26/01/2023 10:09:11 2454347 Link
Replying To anotheralias: ""did you expect them to have a player walk off the pitch in the middle of the attack." Yes. Yes. If you bring a player on then you bring a player off. Simple. That's the reason why teams don't normally make a substitution when the other team is on the attack. "He was not interfering with play" So you are saying that you have to touch the ball to interfere with play. He was standing on the goal line. So the goalkeeper and the other player on the goal line were not interfering with play either? I guarantee you if none of those three players were on the goal line then the ball would not have gone wide." What I am stating is that the referee had his hand in the air to signal the substitution. Glen should have waited until substitution which they are obliged to as the referee had his hand in the air. The indication came from sideline official and the substitution was called over PA system. Play should not have continued until player had left the field. As play was continuing the player could not leave the pitch as he was in a defensive position. Once play had stopped ie ball gone wide, the player in question proceeded to leave the pitch. The referee seen him walking off and did not allow resulting kickout to be taken until he had left the pitch. If a score had come of the 45, chances is that it would be disallowed as the referee was not ready for the kick to be taken. As no score resulted from the 45, then he allowed play to continue as as the case with most quickly taken frees. Jack L (None) - Posts: 3099 - 26/01/2023 10:59:23 2454354 Link
Replying To anotheralias: ""did you expect them to have a player walk off the pitch in the middle of the attack." Yes. Yes. If you bring a player on then you bring a player off. Simple. That's the reason why teams don't normally make a substitution when the other team is on the attack. "He was not interfering with play" So you are saying that you have to touch the ball to interfere with play. He was standing on the goal line. So the goalkeeper and the other player on the goal line were not interfering with play either? I guarantee you if none of those three players were on the goal line then the ball would not have gone wide." As you say, one position leads to another when there is one less player. The sub that came on was on the edge of the square and he came running out with his hands up when the attacker took his shot. The man who shouldn't have been there was guarding the goal line. As I said before, if Croke's had have won by the penalty that never was a penalty would people be talking about that. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2012 - 26/01/2023 11:07:24 2454357 Link
Replying To anotheralias: ""did you expect them to have a player walk off the pitch in the middle of the attack." Yes. Yes. If you bring a player on then you bring a player off. Simple. That's the reason why teams don't normally make a substitution when the other team is on the attack. "He was not interfering with play" So you are saying that you have to touch the ball to interfere with play. He was standing on the goal line. So the goalkeeper and the other player on the goal line were not interfering with play either? I guarantee you if none of those three players were on the goal line then the ball would not have gone wide." Exactly. It's like arguing a goalkeeper in a penalty shootout isn't interfering with play, when the penalty taker kicks it wide. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2039 - 26/01/2023 11:15:37 2454360 Link
Replying To Belclare: "Crokes did nothing wrong.. they brought on a sub, the Derry player took the free before substitution was completed, referee should have blown the whistle to stop play, he didn't, ball went wide . Nobody made any issue on the field there and then our after, Joe Brolly got on his horse and started and here we are... Kilmacud won't be playing any replay .. if the Derry lads want the cup that bad I'm sure once kilmacud are finished celebrating they'll send it up.." Quite the obsession some have with Brolly. He really boils some people... Anyway, yes, he has run with this. But this was all over the place before he took it up and ran with it Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 26/01/2023 11:27:53 2454364 Link
Replying To Jack L: "Exactly. Glen has to take some responsibility here. By taking the quick 45 when the referee had his hand up they prevented the substitution from taking place. Crokes were defending a 45 so did you expect them to have a player walk off the pitch in the middle of the attack. While the offending player was on the goal line, the kick actually went wide. He was not interferring with play. As referee had his hand up, the sub was entitled to enter the field. If the Glen player has to obey the referee's hand signal, the offending player would have time to leave the field." Glen have to take responsibility? For wanting to take a placed ball with the clock running out? They're not in control of the oppositions substitutions, or the officials. Jeez, I've seen some takes, but this one right here... Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 26/01/2023 11:30:07 2454366 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "I know this might be a big ask but , 1- is there anyway officials could use TV replays for major calls like Croke's penalty on Sunday? It was a very close call and at speed you need a few looks to know for sure. All in all the replay will make up for the penalty mistake as well. There are two or three simple things the ref can do in all games to help. Another is marking the spot for frees with foam, nothing as bad as men stealing yards especially to widen the angle." This seemed to only come up after the game, when we saw the view from behind from TG4. I don't think it was apparent at the time. But it is a big ask alright, how can we honestly do TV reviews properly? Think the easiest solution is the best, no player enters the field, until the other leaves a la soccer. And allow 30 seconds properly per sub, not the wishy washy time added on we have now. Even with everything on Sunday, ref didn't allow enough time. Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 26/01/2023 11:33:24 2454368 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Glen have to take responsibility? For wanting to take a placed ball with the clock running out? They're not in control of the oppositions substitutions, or the officials. Jeez, I've seen some takes, but this one right here..." The referee had his hand up signaling a substitution. Play should have stopped. End of. I know time was not on their side. But f play stops for the substitution, the referee ads on time. The purpose of the late substitution was to delay time (blatantly) but this happens all the time. Nothing new here. The referee's hand up was to allow the substitution to take place properly, is new player enter field and substituted player to leave the pitch. By taking quick free, this did not allow the player to leave the pitch. Jack L (None) - Posts: 3099 - 26/01/2023 11:49:23 2454371 Link
I have an idea. As well as the linesmen and 4th official on the sidelines, why not put somebody beside each post ? 4 extra pairs of eyes can only help ? sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2897 - 26/01/2023 11:54:45 2454372 Link