National Forum

Next Years Senior Hurling (And Football Championship)

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Replying To Saynothing:  "I wouldn't know for sure, but would Slaughtneil have won a club All - Ireland in either football or hurling if they didn't have dual players. Too much to ask to play both codes at a high level."
Would they have had enough players to field seperate hurling and football teams at all? In any case they had been concentrating on hurling for the provincial series and still lost to Dunloy so I'm not sure if they would have won an AI in years past either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 12/12/2022 13:50:38    2450190

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Single code players have choices to make. Choices like:

- Am I happy to continue playing only one of the two great games our Association fosters and promotes, or should I at make at least some effort to play the other as well?

- Am I happy that my club/county neglects one of our two great games, or should I push for it to be promoted and developed more, so that more players in my club/county are truer to the real spirit and aims of the Association?

- Do I think it's reasonable to force club players in counties where both games are played on an approximately equal footing to have to choose between the games, just to suit places like my own, where we neglect one of them? Or do I conclude that's unreasonable, and instead admire these other players for showing twice the dedication that I do?"
Another question could be, where is the player welfare if they are playing on what could be 4 teams?

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2291 - 12/12/2022 15:10:29    2450202

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Another question could be, where is the player welfare if they are playing on what could be 4 teams?"
Given yourself and the Kerry poster have suggested midweek club games for dual players I'm pretty sure its not a priority for you anyway.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 12/12/2022 15:21:54    2450207

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Another question could be, where is the player welfare if they are playing on what could be 4 teams?"
Unfortunately the rising number of intercounty games has already made the dual intercounty player a thing of the past. Sadly no current or future player will be able to emulate the great Teddy Mccarthy in years to come no matter how good they are at both hurling and football.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 12/12/2022 15:28:51    2450209

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Another question could be, where is the player welfare if they are playing on what could be 4 teams?"
So it is only the clubs 2 adult teams you would be playing on. Not the county's. A position most of our intercounty footballers and hurlers are in.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 12/12/2022 15:30:44    2450210

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Replying To Viking66:  "So it is only the clubs 2 adult teams you would be playing on. Not the county's. A position most of our intercounty footballers and hurlers are in."
Do ye not have U20s

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2291 - 12/12/2022 16:04:51    2450217

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Given yourself and the Kerry poster have suggested midweek club games for dual players I'm pretty sure its not a priority for you anyway."
My priority is football first. If players want to be dual players it's their bodies. I'd call it selfish, I'm sure there're plenty of lads sitting on the bench hoping for a game.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2291 - 12/12/2022 16:08:41    2450218

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Another question could be, where is the player welfare if they are playing on what could be 4 teams?"
We're talking about playing on two teams (club hurling and club football) during the club part of the split season.

And if you're worried about player welfare during that time, you should look a little closer to home as well, at how you do things in Tyrone.

In a proper dual county like ours, a player will play a maximum of 16 games during the club part of the split season, and that's only if his club reaches a county final in both codes: five group games in each code, followed by quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals.

In Tyrone this year, after your inter-county team went out, every club had 15 rounds of a football league, some had a semi-final and final (so up to 17 games in that competition), and then you went on to a knockout championship, where a club could have up to four other games.

If you're worried about player welfare here, where a lad could have a max 16 games, please have a word with Tyrone GAA too, who expect them to tog off up to 21 times.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 12/12/2022 16:16:11    2450219

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Do ye not have U20s"
They don't clash with the adult championships. And are only open to lads young enough. Clue is in the title lad!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 12/12/2022 16:34:41    2450223

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I'm not sure I fully understand the original post but from what I can gather is that the poster is almost fully a GAA supporter who follows intercounty and doesnt have much interest in local. Which is totally fine and no issue with it. Most GAA people are the opposite though and are involved in some degree with their clubs.
Polls were done which shows players are almost all fully behind the current system. I feel the exact same way and for me that is case well and truly closed. You cant get a completely perfect system but for me its as close as you'll ever get it. No issue and move on is my mantra on this one

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 12/12/2022 16:36:48    2450224

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On the dual player thing. Its been shown in Tipp two seasons in a row by two different clubs that playing club hurling and football at senior level is possible. Tipp have too many senior clubs and very few counties have more but yet they managed to run two good championships.
All because of the restructuring at intercounty. Surely other counties with less teams can manage the same?

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 12/12/2022 16:42:31    2450225

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I'm not sure I fully understand the original post but from what I can gather is that the poster is almost fully a GAA supporter who follows intercounty and doesnt have much interest in local. Which is totally fine and no issue with it. Most GAA people are the opposite though and are involved in some degree with their clubs.
Polls were done which shows players are almost all fully behind the current system. I feel the exact same way and for me that is case well and truly closed. You cant get a completely perfect system but for me its as close as you'll ever get it. No issue and move on is my mantra on this one"
Agreed only self absorbed posters from Kerry and Tyrone seem to have an issue with it.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 12/12/2022 16:45:15    2450227

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "We're talking about playing on two teams (club hurling and club football) during the club part of the split season.

And if you're worried about player welfare during that time, you should look a little closer to home as well, at how you do things in Tyrone.

In a proper dual county like ours, a player will play a maximum of 16 games during the club part of the split season, and that's only if his club reaches a county final in both codes: five group games in each code, followed by quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals.

In Tyrone this year, after your inter-county team went out, every club had 15 rounds of a football league, some had a semi-final and final (so up to 17 games in that competition), and then you went on to a knockout championship, where a club could have up to four other games.

If you're worried about player welfare here, where a lad could have a max 16 games, please have a word with Tyrone GAA too, who expect them to tog off up to 21 times."
In a proper footballing county like ours this helps when it comes to inter county championship. Tyrone are up there with the best of them. A limited few play 19 games and that's winning the championship. It's way better than training all year for a few games.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2291 - 12/12/2022 16:56:34    2450228

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Replying To Saynothing:  "My priority is football first. If players want to be dual players it's their bodies. I'd call it selfish, I'm sure there're plenty of lads sitting on the bench hoping for a game."
Dual players apparently been selfish is up there as 1 of the most bizarre takes I've seen on this platform.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 12/12/2022 18:21:13    2450237

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Replying To Saynothing:  "My priority is football first. If players want to be dual players it's their bodies. I'd call it selfish, I'm sure there're plenty of lads sitting on the bench hoping for a game."
Our clubs lads play both codes all the way up from u7s. We have 1 lad who doesn't play hurling at adult level. All the rest play both. We have Intermediate and Junior B teams in both codes. No players, underage or adult, don't get some time on the pitch.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 12/12/2022 18:29:20    2450238

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I'm not sure I fully understand the original post but from what I can gather is that the poster is almost fully a GAA supporter who follows intercounty and doesnt have much interest in local. Which is totally fine and no issue with it. Most GAA people are the opposite though and are involved in some degree with their clubs.
Polls were done which shows players are almost all fully behind the current system. I feel the exact same way and for me that is case well and truly closed. You cant get a completely perfect system but for me its as close as you'll ever get it. No issue and move on is my mantra on this one"
I would agree the present system is better and can be better with a little tweaking that would create a break of a week between all inter county games. I also believe you can not have the same structure for football and hurling but keep the spit seasons to be fair to both. Starting with hurling eliminate the league. Premier division of 10 teams with top two going to semis. Next four going into quarter finals. Bottom team relegated and second from bottom playing second team in division one for premier status. Top team from division one promoted automatically. You would have all teams playing for something and giving the bottom teams in the premier more meaning full games against top team as well as at their own level. It gives these teams more that one chance to pick off a top team and test themselves against more top teams. I think you would soon see a change. May be not in the top four but in the chasers to them. Westmeath should have beaten us two years ago but that was their only chance at that level.
The league is now a bad joke and getting rid of it would allow much more emphasis on the inter county club game that I think has grown in stature and interest by the public.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3039 - 12/12/2022 19:25:35    2450242

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Replying To Viking66:  "They don't clash with the adult championships. And are only open to lads young enough. Clue is in the title lad!"
So you've no U20s on your senior team, Lad.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2291 - 12/12/2022 19:29:41    2450243

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I'm not sure I fully understand the original post but from what I can gather is that the poster is almost fully a GAA supporter who follows intercounty and doesnt have much interest in local. Which is totally fine and no issue with it. Most GAA people are the opposite though and are involved in some degree with their clubs.
Polls were done which shows players are almost all fully behind the current system. I feel the exact same way and for me that is case well and truly closed. You cant get a completely perfect system but for me its as close as you'll ever get it. No issue and move on is my mantra on this one"
Not going by the current Hoganstand poll. As for supporting teams, it's club and county for me but only in one code. As for dual players, it's a bit like the saying, Jack or all trades but Master of none.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2291 - 12/12/2022 21:30:17    2450254

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Replying To Saynothing:  "So you've no U20s on your senior team, Lad."
We do, several in fact, but our u20 championships don't clash with the adult ones anyway. Our intercounty hurling u20 team lost a player because he played senior intercounty. That's a stupid rule.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 13/12/2022 09:54:33    2450263

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Not going by the current Hoganstand poll. As for supporting teams, it's club and county for me but only in one code. As for dual players, it's a bit like the saying, Jack or all trades but Master of none."
So Teddy Mccarthy was a master of none despite winning AI medals for both in the same year and other years too? That's a strange statement. Tbh many of our Senior intercounty hurlers would be on our Senior intercounty football team if they didnt choose hurling. Would you rather there was no hurling played? Is that what you mean by only in one code?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15713 - 13/12/2022 09:58:41    2450264

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