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Hi tomsmith,
ExiledInWex here, a Dubliner living in Wexford.
All I wanted to do was thank you for your invaluable contribution to this board.
I want to just raise one point. The word "alternated", according to the Oxford, implies "change repeatedly between two contrasting conditions". As in the alternator in your car.
What you are proposing is more along the lines of "switched" between the provincial venues.
But that aside, in most provinces it would depend on the competing teams. In hurling for example, if Wexford were in the Leinster hurling final you would need 40-50k. If Wexford were not, you would need 30k. But no venue exists in Leinster.
A gaping hole for the GAA is a 40k stadium in Portlaoise or Tullamore. Could serve many matches.
I think the same scenario exists in Ulster, with only Clones being adequate until Casement is redeveloped?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 02/12/2022 20:39:27
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Hi tomsmith,
ExiledInWex here, a Dubliner living in Wexford.
All I wanted to do was thank you for your invaluable contribution to this board.
I want to just raise one point. The word "alternated", according to the Oxford, implies "change repeatedly between two contrasting conditions". As in the alternator in your car.
What you are proposing is more along the lines of "switched" between the provincial venues.
But that aside, in most provinces it would depend on the competing teams. In hurling for example, if Wexford were in the Leinster hurling final you would need 40-50k. If Wexford were not, you would need 30k. But no venue exists in Leinster.
A gaping hole for the GAA is a 40k stadium in Portlaoise or Tullamore. Could serve many matches.
I think the same scenario exists in Ulster, with only Clones being adequate until Casement is redeveloped?" At least they have Clones ExiledInWex!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 03/12/2022 08:06:15
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Hi tomsmith,
ExiledInWex here, a Dubliner living in Wexford.
All I wanted to do was thank you for your invaluable contribution to this board.
I want to just raise one point. The word "alternated", according to the Oxford, implies "change repeatedly between two contrasting conditions". As in the alternator in your car.
What you are proposing is more along the lines of "switched" between the provincial venues.
But that aside, in most provinces it would depend on the competing teams. In hurling for example, if Wexford were in the Leinster hurling final you would need 40-50k. If Wexford were not, you would need 30k. But no venue exists in Leinster.
A gaping hole for the GAA is a 40k stadium in Portlaoise or Tullamore. Could serve many matches.
I think the same scenario exists in Ulster, with only Clones being adequate until Casement is redeveloped?" I have said that Nowlan Park should have been upgraded long ago and used for all hurling in Leinster, not involving KK. I cannot understand why there four 45,000 plus Stadia in Munstar and only CP in Leinster, with a capacity like that.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 03/12/2022 09:22:06
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Replying To Oldtourman: "I have said that Nowlan Park should have been upgraded long ago and used for all hurling in Leinster, not involving KK. I cannot understand why there four 45,000 plus Stadia in Munstar and only CP in Leinster, with a capacity like that." Good point OTM. I often wondered at the number of Munster venues, with 45,000 and over capacity.
They get a couple of Munster championship games, every season, plus league games. Does the usage cover the building outlay? I think they will probably be retained.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1735 - 03/12/2022 13:42:40
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Replying To Oldtourman: "I have said that Nowlan Park should have been upgraded long ago and used for all hurling in Leinster, not involving KK. I cannot understand why there four 45,000 plus Stadia in Munstar and only CP in Leinster, with a capacity like that." In Munster in both codes the final should rotation between Cork, Limerick, Thurles and Killarney. The Gaelic Grounds for example. How often is there even close to a sell out there?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 03/12/2022 15:39:03
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Replying To Oldtourman: "I have said that Nowlan Park should have been upgraded long ago and used for all hurling in Leinster, not involving KK. I cannot understand why there four 45,000 plus Stadia in Munstar and only CP in Leinster, with a capacity like that." That would make sense Oldtourman, but then Galway would complain if they had to go to KK for a Leinster final.
Cousin of mine lives in Tipp and works with a Clare man who was saying that Cusack Park needs to be expanded to a 40k+ venue......to accommodate 2 matches a year.
Waterford also building an new (albeit sensibly sized) stadium.
In a province with 4 large stadiums, it seems excessive to be considering building more stadia.
That said, on every trip to Thurles I ask myself what I am missing about this mythical field. For me, the town is one of the biggest hovels in the country and the stadium facilities are decrepit and totally incapable of holding a big game.
I remember the AI Quarter final last year and my son nearly being trampled on in the squash in to the smallest toilet I have ever seen to facilitate such a huge stand. I remember being there in 2001 for Dublin Kerry and the multiple issues there was that day, the place has not improved a bit since then.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 05/12/2022 12:08:28
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "That would make sense Oldtourman, but then Galway would complain if they had to go to KK for a Leinster final.
Cousin of mine lives in Tipp and works with a Clare man who was saying that Cusack Park needs to be expanded to a 40k+ venue......to accommodate 2 matches a year.
Waterford also building an new (albeit sensibly sized) stadium.
In a province with 4 large stadiums, it seems excessive to be considering building more stadia.
That said, on every trip to Thurles I ask myself what I am missing about this mythical field. For me, the town is one of the biggest hovels in the country and the stadium facilities are decrepit and totally incapable of holding a big game.
I remember the AI Quarter final last year and my son nearly being trampled on in the squash in to the smallest toilet I have ever seen to facilitate such a huge stand. I remember being there in 2001 for Dublin Kerry and the multiple issues there was that day, the place has not improved a bit since then." Shush. Thurles is one of the sacred cows that we non-Munster folks (and especially non-Tipp folks) aren't supposed to criticise!
Have to say I'm inclined to agree with you, though. The stadium itself has little or nothing notable about it, other than it holds a relatively large crowd. And while people talk about the craic around the place on big match days, I reckon it'd be the same if your pint was pulled in Limerick, Cork, Kilkenny, or any number of other places, rather than Thurles....so long as there's a match crowd around and plenty of match talk, the venue doesn't actually matter from that point of view.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2229 - 05/12/2022 15:45:15
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Replying To Oldtourman: "I have said that Nowlan Park should have been upgraded long ago and used for all hurling in Leinster, not involving KK. I cannot understand why there four 45,000 plus Stadia in Munstar and only CP in Leinster, with a capacity like that." Use it for football as well since KK don't compete in Leinster. It will always be a neutral ground.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 05/12/2022 16:12:56
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Use it for football as well since KK don't compete in Leinster. It will always be a neutral ground." I'd say they will back competing in it at some stage. Some very good footballers from there. Good Counsel school teams have won 4 Leinster Senior A college titles and the Hogan Cup also since the mid 1990s and approximately half the lads on those teams would be from Kilkenny.
They have 3 Leinster Senior titles won back in the day also. St Kierans won a Leinster Senior A title also.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 05/12/2022 17:13:37
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Shush. Thurles is one of the sacred cows that we non-Munster folks (and especially non-Tipp folks) aren't supposed to criticise!
Have to say I'm inclined to agree with you, though. The stadium itself has little or nothing notable about it, other than it holds a relatively large crowd. And while people talk about the craic around the place on big match days, I reckon it'd be the same if your pint was pulled in Limerick, Cork, Kilkenny, or any number of other places, rather than Thurles....so long as there's a match crowd around and plenty of match talk, the venue doesn't actually matter from that point of view." Well Pikeman, whatever about KK, the pitch is simply too far from the City Centers in the case of Cork and Limerick. I am going to games in Thurles for well over fifty years and the other two venues as well. I am not a Tipp Man or a Tipp supporter, but for a big Hurling match day in Munster, Thurles beats them all six different ways to Sunday and always has. You simply cannot get the Big Match day atmosphere anywhere else that you get in Thurles. Limerick is a hugely Rugby playing City and there is only one pub within easy walking distance of the Pitch and Cork has never cut it for me.
Also for those of us that have been to Thurles regularly, as well as the other pitches and know our way about the area near them- I have lived in both Cork and Limerick- I have always found Thurles more accessible and easier to get home from.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 05/12/2022 18:22:15
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Well Pikeman, whatever about KK, the pitch is simply too far from the City Centers in the case of Cork and Limerick. I am going to games in Thurles for well over fifty years and the other two venues as well. I am not a Tipp Man or a Tipp supporter, but for a big Hurling match day in Munster, Thurles beats them all six different ways to Sunday and always has. You simply cannot get the Big Match day atmosphere anywhere else that you get in Thurles. Limerick is a hugely Rugby playing City and there is only one pub within easy walking distance of the Pitch and Cork has never cut it for me.
Also for those of us that have been to Thurles regularly, as well as the other pitches and know our way about the area near them- I have lived in both Cork and Limerick- I have always found Thurles more accessible and easier to get home from." Thurles is much easier to get back to South Wexford from with the kids. Back in the prekids days I preferred Cork though. Go out on the town Saturday night after a Saturday evening fixture!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 06/12/2022 10:00:41
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Well Pikeman, whatever about KK, the pitch is simply too far from the City Centers in the case of Cork and Limerick. I am going to games in Thurles for well over fifty years and the other two venues as well. I am not a Tipp Man or a Tipp supporter, but for a big Hurling match day in Munster, Thurles beats them all six different ways to Sunday and always has. You simply cannot get the Big Match day atmosphere anywhere else that you get in Thurles. Limerick is a hugely Rugby playing City and there is only one pub within easy walking distance of the Pitch and Cork has never cut it for me.
Also for those of us that have been to Thurles regularly, as well as the other pitches and know our way about the area near them- I have lived in both Cork and Limerick- I have always found Thurles more accessible and easier to get home from." I have only ever once been to Limerick to a championship match, it was around 05/06/07 and there wasn't 5k people at it. I admit that Dublin had maybe 300-400 but the crowd was paltry.
But there was not 1 pub which looked worth stopping / safe in within a mile of the ground. The Gaelic Grounds itself seemed to be in a soulless part of Limerick.
Maybe it has changed now.
But as bad as it is, it will never be as bad as the new Pairc. Somebody thought to put a stadium in an industrial estate a long walk from the city. I will not be back unless the Stone Roses play a gig there and there alone.
Thurles on match day from what I have seen on my trip there with Dublin and Wexford, is just not all it is cracked out to be. And yes I have waited in that square for this mythical match day magic.......could it be like the statues in Ballinspittle??
The best atmospheres on match day are Croke Park by a mile followed by Kilkenny and Tullamore. Kilkenny is great when there is a big game on. Every other town I have been to is fairly forgettable. Wexford is better after the match but no atmosphere before except that pub in Bishopsgate.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 06/12/2022 10:08:13
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I have only ever once been to Limerick to a championship match, it was around 05/06/07 and there wasn't 5k people at it. I admit that Dublin had maybe 300-400 but the crowd was paltry.
But there was not 1 pub which looked worth stopping / safe in within a mile of the ground. The Gaelic Grounds itself seemed to be in a soulless part of Limerick.
Maybe it has changed now.
But as bad as it is, it will never be as bad as the new Pairc. Somebody thought to put a stadium in an industrial estate a long walk from the city. I will not be back unless the Stone Roses play a gig there and there alone.
Thurles on match day from what I have seen on my trip there with Dublin and Wexford, is just not all it is cracked out to be. And yes I have waited in that square for this mythical match day magic.......could it be like the statues in Ballinspittle??
The best atmospheres on match day are Croke Park by a mile followed by Kilkenny and Tullamore. Kilkenny is great when there is a big game on. Every other town I have been to is fairly forgettable. Wexford is better after the match but no atmosphere before except that pub in Bishopsgate." If you have to positively wait for an atmosphere like that, you simply won't get it. It is a bit like the idea of going to Ballinspittle, as a doubter- nothing was ever likely to happen.
I agree Croke Park has brilliant atmosphere, but most of the games are either All Ireland Finals or Semi Finals or Provincial Finals, events at which great atmosphere is guaranteed anyway.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 06/12/2022 12:12:17
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Okay. So Thurles has a crucial advantage over other Munster venues such as Cork and Limerick, in that the pubs are closer to the ground. I stand corrected.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2229 - 06/12/2022 12:51:35
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I have only ever once been to Limerick to a championship match, it was around 05/06/07 and there wasn't 5k people at it. I admit that Dublin had maybe 300-400 but the crowd was paltry.
But there was not 1 pub which looked worth stopping / safe in within a mile of the ground. The Gaelic Grounds itself seemed to be in a soulless part of Limerick.
Maybe it has changed now.
But as bad as it is, it will never be as bad as the new Pairc. Somebody thought to put a stadium in an industrial estate a long walk from the city. I will not be back unless the Stone Roses play a gig there and there alone.
Thurles on match day from what I have seen on my trip there with Dublin and Wexford, is just not all it is cracked out to be. And yes I have waited in that square for this mythical match day magic.......could it be like the statues in Ballinspittle??
The best atmospheres on match day are Croke Park by a mile followed by Kilkenny and Tullamore. Kilkenny is great when there is a big game on. Every other town I have been to is fairly forgettable. Wexford is better after the match but no atmosphere before except that pub in Bishopsgate." Tbh Croke Park is a fairly soulless place unless it's a Provincial final or AI series game. Maybe different for a Dublin fan. Tullamore I always found to be a bleak enough spot too. Nowlan Park is a great venue although victories there have been fairly rare in my time! Cusack Park in Ennis always had a great atmosphere. Armagh and Clones were always great craic, and I loved the grassy banks at the old Casement Park.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 06/12/2022 13:00:34
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Okay. So Thurles has a crucial advantage over other Munster venues such as Cork and Limerick, in that the pubs are closer to the ground. I stand corrected." Tbh I find it easier to manage the kids leaving the car and returning to it from Semple too.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 06/12/2022 13:26:15
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Replying To Oldtourman: "If you have to positively wait for an atmosphere like that, you simply won't get it. It is a bit like the idea of going to Ballinspittle, as a doubter- nothing was ever likely to happen.
I agree Croke Park has brilliant atmosphere, but most of the games are either All Ireland Finals or Semi Finals or Provincial Finals, events at which great atmosphere is guaranteed anyway." Oldtourman my years of being the generator of craic ended in the 90's, I think the 3 children would disown me if I was jumping around like a yahoo.
We might need to disagree but the last time I thought Thurles was great craic was in 1994 when I went to Féile.
To me, everything about the approach to the ground like all the smelly noisy chip vans, etc screams a hovel and I have yet to be there where I have felt otherwise.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 06/12/2022 14:32:15
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That would make sense Oldtourman, but then Galway would complain if they had to go to KK for a Leinster final.
Cousin of mine lives in Tipp and works with a Clare man who was saying that Cusack Park needs to be expanded to a 40k+ venue......to accommodate 2 matches a year.
Waterford also building an new (albeit sensibly sized) stadium.
In a province with 4 large stadiums, it seems excessive to be considering building more stadia.
That said, on every trip to Thurles I ask myself what I am missing about this mythical field. For me, the town is one of the biggest hovels in the country and the stadium facilities are decrepit and totally incapable of holding a big game.
I remember the AI Quarter final last year and my son nearly being trampled on in the squash in to the smallest toilet I have ever seen to facilitate such a huge stand. I remember being there in 2001 for Dublin Kerry and the multiple issues there was that day, the place has not improved a bit since then.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 452 - 05/12/2022 12:08:28
Clare expanding to 40k would be crazy. far better to put in a much smaller overall capacity but far higher quality stadium with better standard seats, facilities in the ground.
Thurles is all about experience on day of walking up from square, atmosphere in the ground.
I do agree 100% with you about Thurles being a hovel. the facilities in the stadium are rubbish and badly needs modernisation. Like on the racecourse side of the ground if you integrated the dome and all that land far better with the stand it could be a way better stand and viewing experience/match day experience for people attending.
Shush. Thurles is one of the sacred cows that we non-Munster folks (and especially non-Tipp folks) aren't supposed to criticise!
Have to say I'm inclined to agree with you, though. The stadium itself has little or nothing notable about it, other than it holds a relatively large crowd. And while people talk about the craic around the place on big match days, I reckon it'd be the same if your pint was pulled in Limerick, Cork, Kilkenny, or any number of other places, rather than Thurles....so long as there's a match crowd around and plenty of match talk, the venue doesn't actually matter from that point of view.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1223 - 05/12/2022 15:45:15
But the thing with Thurles is on a match day especially big games its the only show in town. far more than any game in Limerick/Cork/Kilkenny. 2k from the square to semple stadium and feck all in between the two.
I have only ever once been to Limerick to a championship match, it was around 05/06/07 and there wasn't 5k people at it. I admit that Dublin had maybe 300-400 but the crowd was paltry.
But there was not 1 pub which looked worth stopping / safe in within a mile of the ground. The Gaelic Grounds itself seemed to be in a soulless part of Limerick.
Maybe it has changed now.
But as bad as it is, it will never be as bad as the new Pairc. Somebody thought to put a stadium in an industrial estate a long walk from the city. I will not be back unless the Stone Roses play a gig there and there alone.
Thurles on match day from what I have seen on my trip there with Dublin and Wexford, is just not all it is cracked out to be. And yes I have waited in that square for this mythical match day magic.......could it be like the statues in Ballinspittle??
The best atmospheres on match day are Croke Park by a mile followed by Kilkenny and Tullamore. Kilkenny is great when there is a big game on. Every other town I have been to is fairly forgettable. Wexford is better after the match but no atmosphere before except that pub in Bishopsgate.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 452 - 06/12/2022 10:08:13pubs not being near the ground isnt a reason for lack of atmosphere etc. Gaelic grounds is pretty much beside thomond park and few decent pubs close to there and it doesnt affect atmosphere for big games there.
Croke Park atmosphere isnt near being best unless its a very big game with full capacity or pretty much full capacity which isnt the case for a lot of games there.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3496 - 06/12/2022 18:42:59
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Oldtourman my years of being the generator of craic ended in the 90's, I think the 3 children would disown me if I was jumping around like a yahoo.
We might need to disagree but the last time I thought Thurles was great craic was in 1994 when I went to Féile.
To me, everything about the approach to the ground like all the smelly noisy chip vans, etc screams a hovel and I have yet to be there where I have felt otherwise." A hovel is too harsh.. its far from a great stadium and far better than many other GAA stadiums across the country but hovel is too harsh
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3496 - 06/12/2022 19:14:06
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I have only ever once been to Limerick to a championship match, it was around 05/06/07 and there wasn't 5k people at it. I admit that Dublin had maybe 300-400 but the crowd was paltry.
But there was not 1 pub which looked worth stopping / safe in within a mile of the ground. The Gaelic Grounds itself seemed to be in a soulless part of Limerick.
Maybe it has changed now.
But as bad as it is, it will never be as bad as the new Pairc. Somebody thought to put a stadium in an industrial estate a long walk from the city. I will not be back unless the Stone Roses play a gig there and there alone.
Thurles on match day from what I have seen on my trip there with Dublin and Wexford, is just not all it is cracked out to be. And yes I have waited in that square for this mythical match day magic.......could it be like the statues in Ballinspittle??
The best atmospheres on match day are Croke Park by a mile followed by Kilkenny and Tullamore. Kilkenny is great when there is a big game on. Every other town I have been to is fairly forgettable. Wexford is better after the match but no atmosphere before except that pub in Bishopsgate.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 452 - 06/12/2022 10:08:13
Thats very harsh on Limerick. Ardhu was a lovely pub. its closed now but plenty lovely pubs nearby and the ground isnt in a soulless part of Limerick.
Thurles on big match days and the craic in the pubs in the square and slow walk up to the ground can be great
Croke Park gets the biggest of games and as a dub you play 80% of your games there every year so you are very very used to it so of course you will say it has best atmosphere.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3496 - 06/12/2022 20:17:20
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