HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

National League Fitxtures 2023

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

Replying To TheUsername: "I've already described the ownership model of the GAA above a chara, they are all owned by the GAA and used at their discretion so their are no home grounds, or national stadiums really. Just decisions on what grounds to use. Anything else is just tradition, culture or habit. But to use your premise, which I don't accept. If there are more taxpayers in Dublin then any other county, then does that crate a right for Dublin and that community to use the stadium more pro rata, I don't like your premise but that's the deconstruction of the logic you are proposing. Should a right for other counties to play in Croke Park be made on the tax payer contribution per county. Equality and equity are two different concepts." And what ever happened to the plan that Dublin had to build their own new stadium outside the M50? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11840 - 10/12/2022 17:31:01 2450068 Link
Replying To Viking66: "And what ever happened to the plan that Dublin had to build their own new stadium outside the M50?" I think you will find it wasn't Dublin planning to build a stadium along the M59 it was the GAA's & Leinster Council. The only site along the M50 Dublin County Board were ever in negotiations for was the Spawell, the media presumed this was for a stadium, which has been proven incorrect. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 10/12/2022 17:51:55 2450072 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "I think you will find it wasn't Dublin planning to build a stadium along the M59 it was the GAA's & Leinster Council. The only site along the M50 Dublin County Board were ever in negotiations for was the Spawell, the media presumed this was for a stadium, which has been proven incorrect." https://punditarena.com/gaa/thepateam/new-dublin-gaa-stadium-back-track/ https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/great-news-sports-fans-dublin-set-new-25000-capacity-stadium-110083 https://www.balls.ie/gaa/new-dublin-gaa-stadium-357000 It seems you are wrong it's Dublin GAA that are purchasing the site. Why would the GAA want to build a 25k capacity stadium there when we already have a bigger capacity stadium in the capital? I suppose you do have Parnell Park for a home ground but it's a long time since your footballers played a competitive game there and it's too small for your football following. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11840 - 10/12/2022 21:16:13 2450085 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Sorry lad what have taxpayers got to do with it? Many aren't even members of the GAA. Alot of money was raised by all the County Boards and invested in Croke Park over the years. Not just Dublin County Board. This was raised by GAA members like us all fundraising over the years. The GAA, not Dublin GAA, purchased the ground from Frank Dineen for £3500 in 1913. Again this money wasn't raised exclusively in Dublin but all over the country. Therefore Croke Park belongs to all of us." Again as does every ground and infrastructure project not just Croke park, it's just a difference of scale., My subs and fundraising goes to the DCB, Leinster council, GAA, central funds, there is no specific funding model for a particular project, it's universal and often mixed through county board, central funds and national grants, approval needs to be sought centrally.n There are different priorities and infrastructure projects at different points. Isn't there plans to develop the site at Wexford park through that exact same funding model as was used for Croke Park, as I describe above. Ultimately all GAA members and tax payers pay for infrastructure projects. Conceptually You are right everyone has funded Croke Park, but ultimately everyone has funded every other ground and infrastructure project in the country too. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 10/12/2022 21:25:55 2450088 Link
Replying To Viking66: "https://punditarena.com/gaa/thepateam/new-dublin-gaa-stadium-back-track/ https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/great-news-sports-fans-dublin-set-new-25000-capacity-stadium-110083 https://www.balls.ie/gaa/new-dublin-gaa-stadium-357000 It seems you are wrong it's Dublin GAA that are purchasing the site. Why would the GAA want to build a 25k capacity stadium there when we already have a bigger capacity stadium in the capital? I suppose you do have Parnell Park for a home ground but it's a long time since your footballers played a competitive game there and it's too small for your football following." Not at all, on the contrary, you seem behind the curve here and confusing projects. It's exactly as I said above. The DCB were only ever interested in the Spawell site close to the M50, the media presumed this was for a stadium, they put two and two together and got 5, which turned out not to be the case the site is for a cluster of pitches for local land starved clubs on the Southside, with a similar site bought on the Northside at Hollystown. You won't find anyone from the DCB talking about plans to develop the Spawell site for a stadium, just to say that that's not happening. The M50 stadium idea was by the Leinster Council and GAA not the DCB. The concept was that the ground wasn't being developed for Dublin, but for the whole of Leinster as the belief was a shortage of a 40k stadium, so it was very far from being a Dublin project or "Dublin Stadium" it was a Leinster Council plan for Leinster. https://www.balls.ie/gaa/leinster-chairman-believes-new-stadium-on-the-m50-is-on-the-cards-318876 https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20301038.html TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 11/12/2022 11:24:26 2450100 Link
1A in hurling be interesting. All new managers i think? All out to make a point. Especially Cahill, Davy Fitz and Donoghue coming into counties that had very disappointing and flat end to the championship. Only thing I'd say about Dublin is that we no longer have to worry about being caught in relegation which was the perennial fear even under Anthony. Chances of reaching a final pretty slim but much of that will depend on how they all approach it. I expect to see Tipp maybe follow Cahill's early year approach when he was with Waterford and come out strong from the start. Hopefully the league is not further reduced to an even tamer pre championship preparation, although that might be the lesson they all take from last year when Limerick were almost being written off by some after first three matches. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2553 - 11/12/2022 12:14:06 2450103 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Not at all, on the contrary, you seem behind the curve here and confusing projects. It's exactly as I said above. The DCB were only ever interested in the Spawell site close to the M50, the media presumed this was for a stadium, they put two and two together and got 5, which turned out not to be the case the site is for a cluster of pitches for local land starved clubs on the Southside, with a similar site bought on the Northside at Hollystown. You won't find anyone from the DCB talking about plans to develop the Spawell site for a stadium, just to say that that's not happening. The M50 stadium idea was by the Leinster Council and GAA not the DCB. The concept was that the ground wasn't being developed for Dublin, but for the whole of Leinster as the belief was a shortage of a 40k stadium, so it was very far from being a Dublin project or "Dublin Stadium" it was a Leinster Council plan for Leinster. https://www.balls.ie/gaa/leinster-chairman-believes-new-stadium-on-the-m50-is-on-the-cards-318876 https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20301038.html" There's a 25000 seat stadium planned for Spawell still? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11840 - 12/12/2022 09:47:34 2450151 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Not at all, on the contrary, you seem behind the curve here and confusing projects. It's exactly as I said above. The DCB were only ever interested in the Spawell site close to the M50, the media presumed this was for a stadium, they put two and two together and got 5, which turned out not to be the case the site is for a cluster of pitches for local land starved clubs on the Southside, with a similar site bought on the Northside at Hollystown. You won't find anyone from the DCB talking about plans to develop the Spawell site for a stadium, just to say that that's not happening. The M50 stadium idea was by the Leinster Council and GAA not the DCB. The concept was that the ground wasn't being developed for Dublin, but for the whole of Leinster as the belief was a shortage of a 40k stadium, so it was very far from being a Dublin project or "Dublin Stadium" it was a Leinster Council plan for Leinster. https://www.balls.ie/gaa/leinster-chairman-believes-new-stadium-on-the-m50-is-on-the-cards-318876 https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20301038.html" Read them before but didn't add them to my previous post because both those articles quote a statement made in 2014!!! Not exactly current news. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11840 - 12/12/2022 09:50:55 2450153 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "1A in hurling be interesting. All new managers i think? All out to make a point. Especially Cahill, Davy Fitz and Donoghue coming into counties that had very disappointing and flat end to the championship. Only thing I'd say about Dublin is that we no longer have to worry about being caught in relegation which was the perennial fear even under Anthony. Chances of reaching a final pretty slim but much of that will depend on how they all approach it. I expect to see Tipp maybe follow Cahill's early year approach when he was with Waterford and come out strong from the start. Hopefully the league is not further reduced to an even tamer pre championship preparation, although that might be the lesson they all take from last year when Limerick were almost being written off by some after first three matches." Think Antrim still have Gleeson. Think the problem with Cahill and Fitzgeralds gameplans is that they are both a full on high intensity high energy running type gameplan. That's not suited to playing maybe 5 or 6 weekends out of 7 or 8 with amateur players. Be interesting to see how they can get over that. I think Donohue will do OK in Dublin. You have better players than many think. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11840 - 12/12/2022 09:56:00 2450156 Link
Replying To Viking66: "There's a 25000 seat stadium planned for Spawell still?" No it was never planned, the media speculated that, that the site was purchased for stadium which proved to be incorrect. It was planned as a training centre and pitches for local land starved clubs on the southside. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/12/2022 11:05:41 2450162 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Read them before but didn't add them to my previous post because both those articles quote a statement made in 2014!!! Not exactly current news." The links you posted are equally as old and more speculative, without direct quotes from anyone in the DCB, Leinster Council or GAA just Journalist speculating on the purchase of a site at the spawell by the DCB and presuming it was for a stadium. The links i posted had quotes are from representatives of the GAA and Leinster councils, saying they had live intentions to build a stadium for all Leinster counties on the M50. I think you are confused between origins, sites, projects and plans here when it comes to what you call the "stadium on th M50". The only one in town was a Leinster Stadium along the M50, by the Leinster Council, nothing to do with the DCB at all. Indeed, its only last year the Leinster chairman knocked the idea of a stadium on the M50 built by the Leinster Council on the head, the only stadium planned on the M50 was by the Leinster Council - for Leinster counties.. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/12/2022 11:18:39 2450166 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "The links you posted are equally as old and more speculative, without direct quotes from anyone in the DCB, Leinster Council or GAA just Journalist speculating on the purchase of a site at the spawell by the DCB and presuming it was for a stadium. The links i posted had quotes are from representatives of the GAA and Leinster councils, saying they had live intentions to build a stadium for all Leinster counties on the M50. I think you are confused between origins, sites, projects and plans here when it comes to what you call the "stadium on th M50". The only one in town was a Leinster Stadium along the M50, by the Leinster Council, nothing to do with the DCB at all. Indeed, its only last year the Leinster chairman knocked the idea of a stadium on the M50 built by the Leinster Council on the head, the only stadium planned on the M50 was by the Leinster Council - for Leinster counties.." Ah OK Username. So what is the county boards plan longterm for a Dublin ground? Or is this shelved indefinitely? I see planning was granted for the Hollymount project and applied for for Spawell. 2 much needed facilities going forward. Croke Park Stadium is a seperate part of the GAA and has to be paid by Central Council to host games at Croker. Worth it if a big crowd is expected but maybe not viable for smaller crowds? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11840 - 12/12/2022 12:34:21 2450175 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "The links you posted are equally as old and more speculative, without direct quotes from anyone in the DCB, Leinster Council or GAA just Journalist speculating on the purchase of a site at the spawell by the DCB and presuming it was for a stadium. The links i posted had quotes are from representatives of the GAA and Leinster councils, saying they had live intentions to build a stadium for all Leinster counties on the M50. I think you are confused between origins, sites, projects and plans here when it comes to what you call the "stadium on th M50". The only one in town was a Leinster Stadium along the M50, by the Leinster Council, nothing to do with the DCB at all. Indeed, its only last year the Leinster chairman knocked the idea of a stadium on the M50 built by the Leinster Council on the head, the only stadium planned on the M50 was by the Leinster Council - for Leinster counties.." You're dismissing that report of a possible stadium at Spawell as just a journalist speculating, but don't forget there were good grounds for such speculation. One of the four key objectives of the Dublin GAA Strategic Plan 2011-2017 was to build a stadium: 1. Develop two centres of excellence, one on the Northside and one on the Southside of the county, on a phased basis. 2. Provide sufficient number of cluster facilities with floodlight and all weather capacity to provide for current and targeted increased games requirements in all codes and to allow for the extension of club fixtures to Friday nights. 3. Develop a stadium to bridge the gap between the capacity of Parnell Park and the 82,300 capacity of Croke Park to meet the needs of Dublin and its population. 4. Optimise the use of all existing GAA facilities in Dublin, including second and third level colleges, to support our Games Programme. Seems they quietly shelved it along the way, and now (with you anyway) it's a case of "deny, deny, deny!". Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2241 - 12/12/2022 13:25:46 2450183 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Ah OK Username. So what is the county boards plan longterm for a Dublin ground? Or is this shelved indefinitely? I see planning was granted for the Hollymount project and applied for for Spawell. 2 much needed facilities going forward. Croke Park Stadium is a seperate part of the GAA and has to be paid by Central Council to host games at Croker. Worth it if a big crowd is expected but maybe not viable for smaller crowds?" I dont think there is a plan for an alternative ground to be honest a chara. The last time i think the county Board looked at it was the purchase of a site in Rathcoole in the 00's with a stadium in mind, it met with local objections and never got off the ground the site to the best of my knowledge was sold. Since then i dont think its financially viable, certainly for the county board to fund as much money as they can generate, the Spawll site and Hollystown site cost just South of 20 mill without a spade in the ground - for training and club facilities. I dont think the DCB could afford the land and cost of development in all honesty, you would be looking at another Casement Park in term sof cost and i would took that would be inflated given the cost of land and development in Dublin. Thats just my take mind. The crux of the matter for the GAA, DCB and Leinster Council is do you fund a 40k stadium for Dublin/Leinster, or do you use Corke Park, with other priorities i think they will always just use Croke Park. The DCB pay a rental fee to the GAA for Croke Park for use of their league games, which to my mind is right and proper given other county boards pay for the up keep of the largest ground in their counties. Though the DCB pay for the upkeep of the Neller as well. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/12/2022 13:26:36 2450184 Link
Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Thats silly logic really that's like saying Wembley is the home stadium of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs etc. Reason i made that remark is that you'd see silly comments on Twitter with some supporters claiming Parnell Park is their home ground even though only 1 league or championship game involving Dublin has been played there since 2011 and that was behind closed doors during Covid. Parnell Park is definitely the Dublin hurlers home ground just to clarify." If arsenal or spurs played all their home games at Wembley it would be their home stadium. Anyway I never had a problem playing Dublin in Croke park. I think we may even have outnumbered them in one or two finals. A smaller 25-30k stadium just outside or in the edge of Dublin would be great in my opinion. Could also host concerts and other events. That's said the cost of building such infrastructure in Dublin is off the charts. Would Dublin GAA people rather money spent on developing club grounds? I'm led to believe their are many clubs playing on public playing fields? yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 12/12/2022 13:45:23 2450188 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "You're dismissing that report of a possible stadium at Spawell as just a journalist speculating, but don't forget there were good grounds for such speculation. One of the four key objectives of the Dublin GAA Strategic Plan 2011-2017 was to build a stadium: 1. Develop two centres of excellence, one on the Northside and one on the Southside of the county, on a phased basis. 2. Provide sufficient number of cluster facilities with floodlight and all weather capacity to provide for current and targeted increased games requirements in all codes and to allow for the extension of club fixtures to Friday nights. 3. Develop a stadium to bridge the gap between the capacity of Parnell Park and the 82,300 capacity of Croke Park to meet the needs of Dublin and its population. 4. Optimise the use of all existing GAA facilities in Dublin, including second and third level colleges, to support our Games Programme. Seems they quietly shelved it along the way, and now (with you anyway) it's a case of "deny, deny, deny!"." That poster seems to have the Brian Cody way of saying alot but very little of substance in reality. TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1716 - 12/12/2022 13:53:15 2450191 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "I dont think there is a plan for an alternative ground to be honest a chara. The last time i think the county Board looked at it was the purchase of a site in Rathcoole in the 00's with a stadium in mind, it met with local objections and never got off the ground the site to the best of my knowledge was sold. Since then i dont think its financially viable, certainly for the county board to fund as much money as they can generate, the Spawll site and Hollystown site cost just South of 20 mill without a spade in the ground - for training and club facilities. I dont think the DCB could afford the land and cost of development in all honesty, you would be looking at another Casement Park in term sof cost and i would took that would be inflated given the cost of land and development in Dublin. Thats just my take mind. The crux of the matter for the GAA, DCB and Leinster Council is do you fund a 40k stadium for Dublin/Leinster, or do you use Corke Park, with other priorities i think they will always just use Croke Park. The DCB pay a rental fee to the GAA for Croke Park for use of their league games, which to my mind is right and proper given other county boards pay for the up keep of the largest ground in their counties. Though the DCB pay for the upkeep of the Neller as well." Not sure where you're plucking 20mil from.... probably from the sky.... The Spawell complex was purchased for 9million and had significant annual rent roll of 500k+ when purchased... nothing has changed on that front. The entire cost of Hollystown is 6.6mil... the land was purchased from Glenveagh construction for an undisclosed amount... unlikely to be anymore than 2mil. I make that 11mil with rent roll. With commercial income of c2mil per annum, Dublin should be able well able to pay for it. Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 12/12/2022 14:41:41 2450199 Link
Replying To Square_B: "Not sure where you're plucking 20mil from.... probably from the sky.... The Spawell complex was purchased for 9million and had significant annual rent roll of 500k+ when purchased... nothing has changed on that front. The entire cost of Hollystown is 6.6mil... the land was purchased from Glenveagh construction for an undisclosed amount... unlikely to be anymore than 2mil. I make that 11mil with rent roll. With commercial income of c2mil per annum, Dublin should be able well able to pay for it." You are ommitting the cost of Hollystown, the 6.6 mill figure is for the development of the site not the purchase. Glenveigh bought the site two years ago from Oliver Barry for 15 million, its impossible to think that the value of that land has increased in that time given the value appreciation of land and development in Dublin. https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40075475.html So i was actually being kind, if you included 9 mill for the Spawell and 15 mill + for Hollystown you are looking at figure closer to 25 million. Before a spade hits the ground and the additional 6.6 mill. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/12/2022 16:19:31 2450220 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "You are ommitting the cost of Hollystown, the 6.6 mill figure is for the development of the site not the purchase. Glenveigh bought the site two years ago from Oliver Barry for 15 million, its impossible to think that the value of that land has increased in that time given the value appreciation of land and development in Dublin. https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40075475.html So i was actually being kind, if you included 9 mill for the Spawell and 15 mill + for Hollystown you are looking at figure closer to 25 million. Before a spade hits the ground and the additional 6.6 mill." I'm telling you the cost of the entire project @ Hollystown is 6.6mil, the bulk of which hasnt even been spent yet https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41012573.html. You don't know much about the site or the plans itself let's be honest when you throw out 15 mil ... talking through your hat about things you haven't a clue about. As I've said... probably spent in the order of 11mil between Spawell & Hollystown with rental income still rolling in.... lots of funds to pay for it with 2mil in commercial income per annum. Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 12/12/2022 18:10:20 2450236 Link
NFL pre Christmas predictions Div 1 winners Kerry relegated Donegal & Roscommon Div 2 winners Dublin promoted Derry Relegated limerick & Louth Div 3 winners Cavan promoted Down Relegated Offaly & Fermanagh Div 4 winners Laois Promoted Leitrim Champotime18 (Leitrim) - Posts: 442 - 12/12/2022 21:39:42 2450255 Link