National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The club championships of All-Ireland finalists can only start after those finals. All other club championships can obviously start earlier.
Provincial football and hurling finals semi-finals and finals can of course be played on the same weekend. What happens when a club has success in both codes?
Intercounty players who get all the way to All-Ireland club final day deserve a few weeks rest before the intercounty season begins."
I agree. Usual practice is players from those clubs arent used by their intercounty managers straight away anyway. Obviously players can't play provincial and all Ireland games on the same weekend. It's not a situation that will arise that often. And if the All Ireland series is held in February then there will be no need to schedule those games for the same weekend anyway.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6081 - 26/11/2022 12:00:41    2448748

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Previous All-Ireland club winners have spoken in favour of the finals being scheduled before Christmas. If the inter-county season is remain February to July, the club championships should complete in December. If there can be agreement on March to August for the inter-county, club championships should be able to run until January. If counties don't want club championships starting until September, January finals have to be accepted. Something has to give."
For sure. That's why the intercounty finals are in July. But even with that it would be impossible to finish the AI club series before Xmas. Most of those players of that view probably aren't dual players.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6081 - 26/11/2022 12:02:46    2448749

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Replying To Viking66:  "For sure. That's why the intercounty finals are in July. But even with that it would be impossible to finish the AI club series before Xmas. Most of those players of that view probably aren't dual players."
When a county like Wexford make the All-Ireland final, it will be difficult to complete the club championships in a timeframe that allows the All-Ireland club finals to be completed in December.
Wexford can of course retain the current format of 2groups of 6 and 3 knockout rounds. The trade off would have to be midweek fixtures.

August
06. County Club Hurling Round 1, 09. County Club Hurling Round 2
13. County Club Football Round 1, 16. County Club Football Round 2
20. County Club Hurling Round 3
27. County Club Football Round 3, 30. County Club Hurling Round 4

September
03. County Club Hurling Round 5, 06. County Club Football Round 4
10. County Club Football Round 5
17. County Club Hurling Quarter-finals
24. County Club Football Quarter-finals

October
01. County Club Hurling Semi-finals
08. County Club Football Semi-finals
15. County Club Hurling Finals
22. County Club Football Finals
29. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals

November
05. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals
12. Provincial Club Hurling Finals
19. Provincial Club Football Finals
26. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals

December
03. All-Ireland Club Football Semi-finals
10. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals
17. All-Ireland Club Football Finals
Calendar year achieved. Enjoy Christmas!"

Only 4 of 32 counties will have to wait until August to start their club championships. 18 to 24 club championships should be able to begin by the start of July.
The 4 hurling semi-finalists, 2 Tailteann finalists and 8 football quarter-finalists are the only counties to make July. All club championships should be provisionally ready to start in July.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6881 - 26/11/2022 13:14:35    2448752

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Replying To legendzxix:  "When a county like Wexford make the All-Ireland final, it will be difficult to complete the club championships in a timeframe that allows the All-Ireland club finals to be completed in December.
Wexford can of course retain the current format of 2groups of 6 and 3 knockout rounds. The trade off would have to be midweek fixtures.

August
06. County Club Hurling Round 1, 09. County Club Hurling Round 2
13. County Club Football Round 1, 16. County Club Football Round 2
20. County Club Hurling Round 3
27. County Club Football Round 3, 30. County Club Hurling Round 4

September
03. County Club Hurling Round 5, 06. County Club Football Round 4
10. County Club Football Round 5
17. County Club Hurling Quarter-finals
24. County Club Football Quarter-finals

October
01. County Club Hurling Semi-finals
08. County Club Football Semi-finals
15. County Club Hurling Finals
22. County Club Football Finals
29. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals

November
05. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals
12. Provincial Club Hurling Finals
19. Provincial Club Football Finals
26. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals

December
03. All-Ireland Club Football Semi-finals
10. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals
17. All-Ireland Club Football Finals
Calendar year achieved. Enjoy Christmas!"

Only 4 of 32 counties will have to wait until August to start their club championships. 18 to 24 club championships should be able to begin by the start of July.
The 4 hurling semi-finalists, 2 Tailteann finalists and 8 football quarter-finalists are the only counties to make July. All club championships should be provisionally ready to start in July."
Why are you hung up on the club calendar being completed by Xmas? It was never that way even back in the 90s when the club and county calendar ran concurrently?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6081 - 26/11/2022 14:17:13    2448757

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why are you hung up on the club calendar being completed by Xmas? It was never that way even back in the 90s when the club and county calendar ran concurrently?"
So players could enjoy Christmas and New year!

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 502 - 26/11/2022 15:02:11    2448760

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why are you hung up on the club calendar being completed by Xmas? It was never that way even back in the 90s when the club and county calendar ran concurrently?"
The All-Ireland finals have been brought forward to July for that reason. The GAA, GPA and CPA were all in agreement. The final piece of the puzzle is completing the All-Ireland club finals in December.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6881 - 26/11/2022 15:02:50    2448761

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The All-Ireland finals have been brought forward to July for that reason. The GAA, GPA and CPA were all in agreement. The final piece of the puzzle is completing the All-Ireland club finals in December."
They weren't brought forward for that reason at all. They were brought forward so that club players knew exactly when the club championships were going to take place instead of being messed around fulfilling fixtures on a random basis during the year set to suit the Intercounty management teams. The CPA never demanded that they be finished by Xmas.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6081 - 26/11/2022 16:02:47    2448767

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The All-Ireland finals have been brought forward to July for that reason. The GAA, GPA and CPA were all in agreement. The final piece of the puzzle is completing the All-Ireland club finals in December."
I wouldn't mind swapping club fixtures to first 8 months of year, this would give the majority of players the time to relax when county starts.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1381 - 26/11/2022 16:11:16    2448770

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Replying To Viking66:  "They weren't brought forward for that reason at all. They were brought forward so that club players knew exactly when the club championships were going to take place instead of being messed around fulfilling fixtures on a random basis during the year set to suit the Intercounty management teams. The CPA never demanded that they be finished by Xmas."
Another crucial part of the CPA proposal was that December be cordoned off as a close season for all players which went hand in hand with their further aim to have all club competitions finished in a calendar year. This was when April was to be a club only month. As April is no longer a club only month, the close season is to be pushed back a month.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6881 - 26/11/2022 16:51:41    2448778

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Another crucial part of the CPA proposal was that December be cordoned off as a close season for all players which went hand in hand with their further aim to have all club competitions finished in a calendar year. This was when April was to be a club only month. As April is no longer a club only month, the close season is to be pushed back a month."
There's a closed season for most club players as it is. The All Ireland series only involves a minute percentage of club players.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6081 - 26/11/2022 20:27:34    2448807

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Replying To Saynothing:  "You're thinking more for the dual player of which there few off."
You probably don't have many dual players in Tyrone. But here in Wexford, more than 90% play both club hurling and club football. At a rough estimate - and I'll explain the maths of it later, if you want me to - that's somewhere around 1,500 players.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1201 - 26/11/2022 21:42:42    2448816

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Replying To Viking66:  "There's a closed season for most club players as it is. The All Ireland series only involves a minute percentage of club players."
The intention is that no player is left behind, including the intercounty players making it to All-Ireland club final day. Successful players must not be punished.
There are no club games during the two weekends of Christmas. These two weekends are suitable for being a part of the close season.
The All-Ireland finals next year will be a week later. If the All-Ireland club finals can be completed in December, the GAA can look at starting the intercounty season a week earlier in January.
When successful club are on a good run through provincial championship into the All-Ireland, players have spoken of losing momentum during the Christmas break.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6881 - 27/11/2022 08:58:29    2448820

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The intention is that no player is left behind, including the intercounty players making it to All-Ireland club final day. Successful players must not be punished.
There are no club games during the two weekends of Christmas. These two weekends are suitable for being a part of the close season.
The All-Ireland finals next year will be a week later. If the All-Ireland club finals can be completed in December, the GAA can look at starting the intercounty season a week earlier in January.
When successful club are on a good run through provincial championship into the All-Ireland, players have spoken of losing momentum during the Christmas break."
Why should club players only get approximately 4 months to play all the championship games? And by your reckoning less than 2 months to play county club championships, being as more than 95% of club players aren't going to take part in the provincial and AI Club series anyway? Basically you are telling the average club players they can only have a season that lasts less than 2 months? Or train all year to maybe only play 3 meaningful games all year if they aren't dual players?
If the GAA adopt your calendar the CPA will probably be reformed shortly afterwards. Club players wanted more meaningful games and certainty when those games will take place. Not to be tossed aside in the interests of "the successful players". Lads who make the AI club series usually don't take part in the intercounty League or the Fitzgibbon or Sigerson Cups. It's the way it's been for years. No players have complained about this.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6081 - 27/11/2022 12:21:02    2448826

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why should club players only get approximately 4 months to play all the championship games? And by your reckoning less than 2 months to play county club championships, being as more than 95% of club players aren't going to take part in the provincial and AI Club series anyway? Basically you are telling the average club players they can only have a season that lasts less than 2 months? Or train all year to maybe only play 3 meaningful games all year if they aren't dual players?
If the GAA adopt your calendar the CPA will probably be reformed shortly afterwards. Club players wanted more meaningful games and certainty when those games will take place. Not to be tossed aside in the interests of "the successful players". Lads who make the AI club series usually don't take part in the intercounty League or the Fitzgibbon or Sigerson Cups. It's the way it's been for years. No players have complained about this."
Drop the dual player fascination, if players want to play both codes they have to make the sacrifice's not every other player.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1381 - 27/11/2022 12:47:50    2448831

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why should club players only get approximately 4 months to play all the championship games? And by your reckoning less than 2 months to play county club championships, being as more than 95% of club players aren't going to take part in the provincial and AI Club series anyway? Basically you are telling the average club players they can only have a season that lasts less than 2 months? Or train all year to maybe only play 3 meaningful games all year if they aren't dual players?
If the GAA adopt your calendar the CPA will probably be reformed shortly afterwards. Club players wanted more meaningful games and certainty when those games will take place. Not to be tossed aside in the interests of "the successful players". Lads who make the AI club series usually don't take part in the intercounty League or the Fitzgibbon or Sigerson Cups. It's the way it's been for years. No players have complained about this."
The intercounty championships are April to July. The club championships are August to December. 4 months of intercounty championship compared with 5 months of club championships.
A good club structure will have club county leagues in parallel with the inter-county championship season, giving club players plenty of playing time between April and July, prior to the club championships.
The National Football League is part of the All-Ireland qualification. The league is popular with the GPA. So much so, they wanted it intertwined with the championship.
The CPA were fully on board the plan for the All-Ireland club championships to be completed within the calendar year. They have been given August and September in place of April.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6881 - 27/11/2022 13:14:41    2448833

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Drop the dual player fascination, if players want to play both codes they have to make the sacrifice's not every other player."
You come across as such a bitter person.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 194 - 27/11/2022 13:49:36    2448835

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "You come across as such a bitter person."
Far from it but don't let dual player hold up the playing season. Boys training 12 months of the year is not right so something has to give.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1381 - 27/11/2022 14:26:57    2448840

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "You come across as such a bitter person."
Far from it but don't let dual player hold up the playing season. Boys training 12 months of the year is not right so something has to give.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1381 - 27/11/2022 14:26:59    2448841

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Far from it but don't let dual player hold up the playing season. Boys training 12 months of the year is not right so something has to give."
Agreed. Dual players are to be lauded. Playing both codes however should not be interfering with the scheduling of either code.
All-Ireland finalists will have less time for the club championship. That comes with the territory of success.
Dual players might have to play midweek games. That comes with the territory of playing both codes. Noone said it was going to be easy.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6881 - 27/11/2022 14:43:03    2448846

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