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Is Pat Spillane Right Or Wrong With His Three Improvement Suggestions .

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Tomsmith here
I have read Pat Spillances suggestions about his improvements in the GAA.
No 1 Kickouts to go over 45 M line
No2 No back pass to Keeper
No3 Curtail the number of hand passes

In his Sundat Wo--- article he gives us some wonderful stats which make interesting reading .
But Pat is Pat and while he played the game at a reasonably high level he had alot of work horses behind him that handed him a lot of ball on aplate.
I dont know Pat if you arer ight or wrong but as a Cavan man ( who beat youse in teh 1947 All iReland player in Newyork) I feel you are playing to the Gallery with these radical comments

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3861 - 09/10/2022 15:32:44    2443274

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here
I have read Pat Spillances suggestions about his improvements in the GAA.
No 1 Kickouts to go over 45 M line
No2 No back pass to Keeper
No3 Curtail the number of hand passes

In his Sundat Wo--- article he gives us some wonderful stats which make interesting reading .
But Pat is Pat and while he played the game at a reasonably high level he had alot of work horses behind him that handed him a lot of ball on aplate.
I dont know Pat if you arer ight or wrong but as a Cavan man ( who beat youse in teh 1947 All iReland player in Newyork) I feel you are playing to the Gallery with these radical comments"
First two could be done. Hard to see the third being implemented.

But because Pat Spillane s making the suggestions people will disagree.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 09/10/2022 16:28:53    2443281

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Replying To oneoff:  "First two could be done. Hard to see the third being implemented.

But because Pat Spillane s making the suggestions people will disagree."
All three should be implemented. But as you pointed out as Pat Spillane is suggesting them most will not agree with them just for the sake of disagreeing with him.
As to the post by another stating " he had alot of work horses behind him that handed him a lot of ball on aplate." This is way off the mark. He and Jack O'Shea were the workhorses. His workrate was unbelievable. He won more ball back in his own end of the field than another other player then or now.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 749 - 09/10/2022 18:30:47    2443302

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here
I have read Pat Spillances suggestions about his improvements in the GAA.
No 1 Kickouts to go over 45 M line
No2 No back pass to Keeper
No3 Curtail the number of hand passes

In his Sundat Wo--- article he gives us some wonderful stats which make interesting reading .
But Pat is Pat and while he played the game at a reasonably high level he had alot of work horses behind him that handed him a lot of ball on aplate.
I dont know Pat if you arer ight or wrong but as a Cavan man ( who beat youse in teh 1947 All iReland player in Newyork) I feel you are playing to the Gallery with these radical comments"
I agree with you about 1 and 2 and also wonder about the feasibility of having the referee counting the number of hand passes given the speed of the modern game. If it could be implemented it would certainly have some impact on the flow of a game - although was this not tried for a few years some years back ?? I'm presuming your remark on Pat's playing the game at a reasonable level was a bit of tongue in cheek. And as for having others doing the donkey work, that is how the game was played at that time. Every player had a job to do and Kerry did it better than most for many years. Back to rule changes - I think that an overhaul of the "mark" rule might benefit the game. A player fielding a high ball under pressure from opposing players is one thing but a player in space catching a ball at little over head height is another matter, IMO, particularly when in a scoring position - although it must also be noted the marked reluctance of many forwards having a go for fear of losing possession if things go wrong.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1003 - 09/10/2022 19:24:03    2443311

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Re no. 1...how will u 13s manage into a strong wind?
What penalty is he proposing if ball doesn't cross 45?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1433 - 09/10/2022 21:00:26    2443326

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All three suggestions are nonsense and consistent with frequent suggestions that keep coming from "stalwarts" of Spillane's era who continue to hark for a return to the days of full/centre backs collecting balls , throwing their head down and kicking it aimless downfield. Spillane was obviously a great player in his day but the standard & conditioning of players back then was atrocious as any passing view of the All Ireland Gold series on TG4 will attest. No mainstream commentator will ever come out and say this obviously for fear of retribution from the established "great & good" from that era, including Spillane, who hold powerful positions across the GAA world today.

There is nothing wrong with the game and this continued attitude of " things were much better in my day , let's try and turn it back to how it was when I played" will damage our game.

Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 122 - 09/10/2022 21:50:52    2443333

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Why would you want to engineer a game so much, we all like contests for the ball, short kickouts keep the game moving, if the ball has to pass the 45 virtually every kickout will end up in broken ball or a stop in play for the mark, all 6 opposing forwards will pack midfield creating a more defensive game, creating a different set of rules for a gk would be a very bad move and limiting handpassing just adds more for a referee to do and what do you limit it to, 5? 10? Football has issues and we would all like to see a game where risks are taken more so than a safety game but you have to allow for innovation

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1595 - 10/10/2022 08:55:17    2443341

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First, why do we constantly pay heed to the views of Spillane and his nonsense on the game and his ability to set the agenda for the sport?

For what it's worth, his suggestions would see the game wind up to what it looked in the 60s and 70s, which was utter tripe, full of long aimless kicks down the pitch and zero tactical nous.

fancyaride (Mayo) - Posts: 180 - 10/10/2022 08:56:18    2443342

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Replying To Hawkeye2:  "All three suggestions are nonsense and consistent with frequent suggestions that keep coming from "stalwarts" of Spillane's era who continue to hark for a return to the days of full/centre backs collecting balls , throwing their head down and kicking it aimless downfield. Spillane was obviously a great player in his day but the standard & conditioning of players back then was atrocious as any passing view of the All Ireland Gold series on TG4 will attest. No mainstream commentator will ever come out and say this obviously for fear of retribution from the established "great & good" from that era, including Spillane, who hold powerful positions across the GAA world today.

There is nothing wrong with the game and this continued attitude of " things were much better in my day , let's try and turn it back to how it was when I played" will damage our game."
The game has become a hard watch at all adult levels lad. Something has to be done about it. Not sure about Pats suggestions. No backward handpassing at all might be an easier rule for a ref and his linesmen to spot and implement. Would solve his 1 and 3 points. Kickouts to go over the 45 or to go 30 metres in u13 and u15?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12011 - 10/10/2022 09:06:38    2443345

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Replying To Hawkeye2:  "All three suggestions are nonsense and consistent with frequent suggestions that keep coming from "stalwarts" of Spillane's era who continue to hark for a return to the days of full/centre backs collecting balls , throwing their head down and kicking it aimless downfield. Spillane was obviously a great player in his day but the standard & conditioning of players back then was atrocious as any passing view of the All Ireland Gold series on TG4 will attest. No mainstream commentator will ever come out and say this obviously for fear of retribution from the established "great & good" from that era, including Spillane, who hold powerful positions across the GAA world today.

There is nothing wrong with the game and this continued attitude of " things were much better in my day , let's try and turn it back to how it was when I played" will damage our game."
There is a lot of truth in your observations the game is continually evolving - whether for better or worse is a moot point. We are where we are and the "modern" game will no doubt evolve further. Those Kerry and Dublin teams of the 70s and 80s were in their day accused by some of turning the game into a game of handball. There are undoubtedly tweaks that are needed but I will leave up to better football brains than mine. I suppose, at the end of the day, coaches will always try to find a way to win.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1003 - 10/10/2022 09:51:36    2443350

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Re no. 1...how will u 13s manage into a strong wind?
What penalty is he proposing if ball doesn't cross 45?"
It's not just U13s who could have a problem with kick-outs having to go a certain distance.

We had a senior match in Wexford not that long ago where the wind was so strong, that one kick-out that was taken into the wind ended up being blown backwards and going out for a 45. The clip is online somewhere, but I can't find it right now.

Every single kick-out from that goal into that wind in that match would have ended up as a free or a throw ball if Spillane's suggestion was brought in.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2251 - 10/10/2022 10:37:46    2443359

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Replying To fancyaride:  "First, why do we constantly pay heed to the views of Spillane and his nonsense on the game and his ability to set the agenda for the sport?

For what it's worth, his suggestions would see the game wind up to what it looked in the 60s and 70s, which was utter tripe, full of long aimless kicks down the pitch and zero tactical nous."
Think you're right, why would any keeper hoof a long ball into the middle for a lottery who wins it. Outside the main rules of the game no team should be told how to play the game. If a team starts to play "keep ball" it's up to the other team to go man to man.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2016 - 10/10/2022 11:16:39    2443369

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All 3 would have some merit and certainly wouldn't damage the game but I don't think they would accomplish much. In my opinion the kickout or the pass-back to the keeper isn't the problem; the main problem is the 40/50 yard pass-back from the Half Forward to the Half Back to reset and restart the attack.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 292 - 10/10/2022 11:53:21    2443377

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This nonsense again. Why do people think there is a big problem with football? The quality and speed of football at the latter end of the championship is better than ever if you look back over the last 10 years. There will always be tweaks and that's fair enough but sick and tired of daft suggestions like limiting handpasses, that is laughable stuff.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 10/10/2022 12:14:00    2443382

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here
I have read Pat Spillances suggestions about his improvements in the GAA.
No 1 Kickouts to go over 45 M line
No2 No back pass to Keeper
No3 Curtail the number of hand passes

In his Sundat Wo--- article he gives us some wonderful stats which make interesting reading .
But Pat is Pat and while he played the game at a reasonably high level he had alot of work horses behind him that handed him a lot of ball on aplate.
I dont know Pat if you arer ight or wrong but as a Cavan man ( who beat youse in teh 1947 All iReland player in Newyork) I feel you are playing to the Gallery with these radical comments"
He is wrong, and more so he is simply looking at the game through a frame of "how great the game was when i played" when in reality it wasnt, all it was was a game of chance where inevitably the bigger and stronger you were the better chance you had.

The game is far better now but as is the case a lot of what spillane and others complain about isnt the problem.

Short kick outs, too much hand passing and the keeper heaven forbid a goalkeeper joining in the play isnt the problem with football.

One of the problems for example with football is the deliberate slowing of the game and sideways back and forth with the only tactic being to draw a free for your ace marks man to kick over the bar. Couple that with teams showing no incentive to attack unless forced to.

I mean he could have come with a few more radical thoughts which may actually have an effect.

For example once you cross your own 45 or 65 or half way line with the ball then you cant go back.

Another would be that you must keep 5 of your 6 forwards inside the opposition half at all times to cut down on multiple sweepers coming back.

Only when being tackled can you hand pass backwards, hand passing the ball is fine once its going forward in a positive manner.

Look no one has a definitive right answer but for me we need to look at the actual issues, not revert back to how the game used to be played because in relaity, it wasnt all that great

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1349 - 10/10/2022 16:04:04    2443432

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here
I have read Pat Spillances suggestions about his improvements in the GAA.
No 1 Kickouts to go over 45 M line
No2 No back pass to Keeper
No3 Curtail the number of hand passes

In his Sundat Wo--- article he gives us some wonderful stats which make interesting reading .
But Pat is Pat and while he played the game at a reasonably high level he had alot of work horses behind him that handed him a lot of ball on aplate.
I dont know Pat if you arer ight or wrong but as a Cavan man ( who beat youse in teh 1947 All iReland player in Newyork) I feel you are playing to the Gallery with these radical comments"
It's the silly season in GAA commentary. Because of the split season the silly season goes on for much longer than it used to. The pundits have pages to fill and they have very little at county level to talk about so they rehash these "articles" about "improving" the game on an annual basis. The articles are not worth the paper they are printed on. Leave the game alone and let the players who play the game do just that. We have an endless stream of middle aged, grey haired men disparaging the efforts of today's young players. I guarantee if those young players sat down and watched what the grey haired pundits produced when they were playing they'd have a thing of two to say.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 10/10/2022 16:22:32    2443434

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Replying To Viking66:  "The game has become a hard watch at all adult levels lad. Something has to be done about it. Not sure about Pats suggestions. No backward handpassing at all might be an easier rule for a ref and his linesmen to spot and implement. Would solve his 1 and 3 points. Kickouts to go over the 45 or to go 30 metres in u13 and u15?"
Did you find Kerry v Galway, Kerry v Dublin, Armagh v Galway hard watches? The county final in Louth yesterday was exceptional.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 10/10/2022 16:37:20    2443440

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Replying To Freethinker:  "There is a lot of truth in your observations the game is continually evolving - whether for better or worse is a moot point. We are where we are and the "modern" game will no doubt evolve further. Those Kerry and Dublin teams of the 70s and 80s were in their day accused by some of turning the game into a game of handball. There are undoubtedly tweaks that are needed but I will leave up to better football brains than mine. I suppose, at the end of the day, coaches will always try to find a way to win."
Great post.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 10/10/2022 16:39:04    2443442

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Replying To fancyaride:  "First, why do we constantly pay heed to the views of Spillane and his nonsense on the game and his ability to set the agenda for the sport?

For what it's worth, his suggestions would see the game wind up to what it looked in the 60s and 70s, which was utter tripe, full of long aimless kicks down the pitch and zero tactical nous."
Amen brother, look at a game from the 80's/90's and tell me the game has not improved from the aimless tactless rubbish of back then.
A bit like in hurling, people look back at ground hurling and think it is great, a big roar and then the opposition gets the ball from the aimless play.
The Sunday World must be hitting silly GAA season if they now writing these nonsense articles. I presume Pat is contractually obliged to write an article every week so he needs to fill it.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1136 - 10/10/2022 16:44:48    2443444

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Amen brother, look at a game from the 80's/90's and tell me the game has not improved from the aimless tactless rubbish of back then.
A bit like in hurling, people look back at ground hurling and think it is great, a big roar and then the opposition gets the ball from the aimless play.
The Sunday World must be hitting silly GAA season if they now writing these nonsense articles. I presume Pat is contractually obliged to write an article every week so he needs to fill it."
As apposed to hurling now where most of the scores come from either frees or 80/90 meters by someone who's not being marked? But of course we're not allowed to point that out...

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 10/10/2022 16:56:49    2443449

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