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And to be fair to Cody too he's left the current crop in a good place too. That to me was always his best characteristic as a manager, he always got the best out of his players. The players he had this year won't go down as his greatest team he's ever had but they proved to everybody that they can compete hard with the best. That's some going.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 13/08/2022 15:21:37 2437284 Link 0 |
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Bon I hope Davy is the messiah but lets deal with some facts here. Since the being of hurling how many outside managers have won all-Irelands. They only one I can think of is Bond with Offaly. Maybe I missed one. Not sure about Eamon Cregan but an extremely low percentage. If Davy can do it there will be a statue erected on the Quay for him and a new motor way named after him.This time round he will be strung up if things get worse. Davy has two All-Irelands as a player and one as a manager all in his own county. Incidentally the majority of this Waterford team has two All-Ireland medals. These players supported the appointment of Davy and the best of luck to him and the team. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 13/08/2022 15:24:55 2437285 Link 0 |
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Yes he is but I believe Franks is a big part of the success in Ballygunner also. I am not sure who applied in Waterford but the players were big on Tony Browne. May be he will be involved. James O' Connor a strong candidate if he applied. Queally who is managing teams since he stopped playing and is always passionate about wanting the job. Michael Ryan was not given a proper chance first time around and player power ousted him. Derek was th man who put this team on the road but not my choice. I don't know who else applied or wanted the job but there are plenty of good hurling people in the county. Could they do better than Davy ? We will see. To me he has taken on a might challenge that I are sure he will give it his all. That's his nature.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 13/08/2022 15:37:33 2437287 Link 0 |
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Yes you're right of course, but still, plenty of managers out there who would would like to "fail" as successfully as that lol
points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 239 - 13/08/2022 16:18:34 2437292 Link 0 |
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Yeah Cregan's from Limerick. I'd love to see Waterford win an All Ireland, after Limerick they'd be the other team I've always rooted for. They had some super teams in the late 90s and unfortunately didn't get over the line, I still think 98 is the one that got away from them if they'd pipped Kilkenny in the semi. Hopefully Davy can steer them over the line, I think its a far more balanced squad than he had the last time. On one hand though you have all his experience, all irelands playing with Clare and sixmilebridge, then The All Ireland with Clare as manager and his previous Fitzgibbon cup successes with LIT. The guys done it all. But on the other hand he can at times bring an awful lot of razamataz with him and seems at times to nearly get caught up in the hype which I don't think does anything for team he's coaching. Time will tell. Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 13/08/2022 19:12:17 2437305 Link 0 |
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Unfortunately I think we have seen the best of Tadgh. Too many serious injuries. Pity for such a fabulous player. He is not old and I would hope to be wrong but doubtful. Re assigning him but to where. He is such a good reader of the game despite that sweeper tag.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 13/08/2022 20:02:51 2437309 Link 0 |
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I don't think it is just down to talented players. How they are coached and managed is vital. If it was just down to talent Waterford would already have an AI in the bag this past few years. They have some fantastic hurlers.
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 14/08/2022 08:40:16 2437316 Link 0 |
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Earth. No kilkenny manager would have gotten away with that return in 7 years unless they had won what he had won prior to that. Name one time that Davy took over a team and didn't improve them. Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 14/08/2022 09:55:59 2437320 Link 0 |
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"Plus with no apparent new talent coming through, he [Cody} decide to step down" Utter nonsense. No apparent talent coming through? Did you watch Kilkenny play this year? They had the youngest team/panel of all the top counties. 6 of the 15 players that started against Limerick were 23 or younger. Plus, I dare say there'll be a few from the AI winning under 20 team joining the senior panel sooner rather than latter. As for the reason(s) Cody stepped down. How do you know? Did he tell you? Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2466 - 14/08/2022 10:42:08 2437324 Link 0 |
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Just a little over a year ago Davy Fitz announced that he was leaving Wexford. baire (Galway) - Posts: 1798 - 14/08/2022 11:45:16 2437329 Link 0 |
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That's madness. Loads of fantastic teams have won nothing. Loads of average teams have gotten big wins. All the top hurling teams have huge talent. The key Is planning, motivation and togetherness. Waterford not winning an all Ireland is nothing to do with lack of talent. The Waterford team of 00s are a great example. Tony Browne, Shanahan, Mullane, McGrath etc. The Cork team of the same era won 3 all Irelands. The difference wad belief in their ability to jump the final hurdle. There was nothing between those teams. Wexford of the 00s were pretty average. They beat the great kilkenny team, limerick, Waterford and tipp in championship. All better teams, but wexford hard serious men in charge at the time. Would also refer to wexford again in 96. A weaker team than earlier in the decade. One man got it to click. Liam Dunne rebuilt wexford but couldn't make the biggest step. Davy took over and did so much more with the same group. There are endless examples of this. Alex Ferguson, Billy Walsh, Jurgen klop, mourinho Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2661 - 14/08/2022 11:49:36 2437330 Link 1 |
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As Brian Cody said, there are always hurlers in Kilkenny so you are right. However it will be difficult going forward. Limerick won one hurling All Ireland between 1940 and 2018 but are now on their way to being hurling's new superpower. They have the academy, JP and 4 All Irelands in 5 years and Limerick are going to stay a force. Cork have had recent underage success after years of none and I think they'll be the biggest threat to Limerick over the next couple of years. Tipp will rebuild under Liam Cahill as well. Kilkenny do have the advantage of being in Leinster which does give them an easier path to an All Ireland semi final than the Munster teams. I still wouldn't be sure when Liam MacCarthy will be back by the banks of the Nore. Also cockney, while you talk about the young players on this year's Kilkenny team, the reality is that Kilkenny's most important player by a mile is TJ Reid who'll be 35 years of age in November.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2164 - 14/08/2022 12:07:22 2437332 Link 1 |
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You are entitled to your opinion but please don't berate my opinion by calling it nonsense. Kilkenny are a step below Limerick at the moment. They never looked like beating Limerick in the all ireland final. If Brian Cody felt they were ready to make the step up and win the all ireland he would stay. Kilkenny are in a group of teams on a similar level; any of these teams can beat the other on any day. Maybe players from their u20 team can make a step up.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 14/08/2022 12:42:29 2437334 Link 4 |
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Even in my lifetime Kilkenny didnt win an AI between their wins in 1993 and 2000. In that time they "only" won 2 Leinsters. Before that they won no AISs between 1983 and 1992, "only " winning 3 Leinsters and reaching 2 AI finals. They won no AIs between 1957 and 1963 and none between 1947 and 1957. Not winning 1 since 2015 is nothing extraordinary even for Kilkenny.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11848 - 14/08/2022 14:26:42 2437349 Link 0 |
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Still not sure about the easier path for Kilkenny in the Round Robin era. Usually at least 1 of the Munster counties haven't shown up. And in Leinster all the teams have to play 1 more game. As Westmeath showed us you can't take any games easy. If we had won in Mullingar Kilkenny wouldn't have made the Leinster final.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11848 - 14/08/2022 14:32:15 2437350 Link 0 |
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The most important thing is what is best for Waterford hurling. Any time we have been at least contender it has come from under age success. '92 under 21 gave us the Tony Browne, Dan, Paul Flynn, Mullane, Ken (arrived little latter) etc. era. The current squad has minor and under 21 All-Ireland medals. Coaching and managing should be the same. A gradual climb to these positions along with the players. Sean Power brought the present players through with these successes but was not given a look in. In fact he was very disappointed not to be even granted an interview before Derek. The last few years we have been within a puck of the ball of the top under age teams and extra time required to decide games. Maybe not so much this year but the U20 were decent. We will have new managements again for these teams next year that now seems to be the trend every year. That takes me to the Dereks. If, if, they want the big job why don't they go back down and take the U17 and U 20's and bring them along first. Mind you I hate the change to these age groups and will set us and others back a lot. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/08/2022 15:10:07 2437355 Link 0 |
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Still not sure about the easier path for Kilkenny in the Round Robin era. Usually at least 1 of the Munster counties haven't shown up. And in Leinster all the teams have to play 1 more game. As Westmeath showed us you can't take any games easy. If we had won in Mullingar Kilkenny wouldn't have made the Leinster final."]If ye had won in Mullingar, ye wouldn't have won in Nowlan Park. If Kilkenny had had to beat Wexford at home to stay in the championship, they would have. That's Kilkenny. Kilkenny lost in Salthill as well but beat Galway when it mattered. Munster has Limerick, Tipp,Cork, Clare and Waterford. Definitely a more competitive province than Leinster where a moderate enough Kilkenny team has just done 3 in a row.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2164 - 14/08/2022 15:51:17 2437360 Link 0 |
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Mayo in football are an example where it seems that they have the players but never get the job done. Is this a mentality? If John Kiely left Limerick and went to Waterford in the morning; would Waterford beat Limerick and win the all ireland? The answer is no, for me as Limerick have superior players regardless who the manager is.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 14/08/2022 16:00:32 2437364 Link 0 |
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Agreed but I suppose it's extraordinary by the standards Cody had set by winning 11 All Irelands in 16 years. It was a golden era for Kilkenny but now it's dried up.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2164 - 14/08/2022 16:22:32 2437368 Link 1 |
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Kilkenny went through 4 managers between 1990 and 1998, and even won two all Irelands in that time. For a manager to go 7 years without one, and remain at the helm is pretty rare, id be surprised if Lyng is even given half that time if he doesn't win an all Ireland. Waterford haven't won an all Ireland in over 6 decades but I guarantee you if Davy doesn't win one in the next 2 years his army of detractors will be out in force saying "I told you so". Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 14/08/2022 16:42:27 2437372 Link 1 |