National Forum

Get Rid Of The Mark

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Just a quick thought though theres probably holes in it but how bout keep the mark for,
Clean catch above the head if player is being challenged by opposing player.
Ref blows whistle to award mark.
Opposing player(s) must move away immediately.
Player then has indirect free where they can pass to team mate not shoot for score.
If opposing player(s) dont move away immediately after whistle is blown player gets a direct free where they can shoot for score.

I dont think it would be as complicated as it sounds above once its in practice and would keep the game moving. As its in defending players interest to move away from man who has ball in hand as quickly as possible and to pick up other attackers.

Onion_Sack (Dublin) - Posts: 299 - 28/07/2022 19:35:11    2435159

Link

Replying To Gaa Fan:  "I agree. The skills of the game have been eroded in the name of one thing or another. You always had high fielders but that had to be combined with the skill to do something constructive with the ball once you got it.
Keep the black card, if you wish, but get rid of the sin bin. The referee on Sunday did not issue a black card to a goalie and rule or no rule, used his judgement, and just awarded a free. The foul was not malicious, dangerous, and no harm done. Most modern day refs would have gone by the book. He is to be commended for that. All fouls are committed to prevent the other having an advantage.
A bigger gripe with me is free kicks from the hand. Was brought in by the scholastic minds in Croke Park "to speed up the game". This one is a laugh."
Well said Gaa Fan…. I have been complaining about the free kick out of the hand for years…. Very few players can now kick a ball from the ground hence all these goalkeepers trapesing up the field to kick frees and 45's….. it's nauseating..

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3830 - 28/07/2022 19:41:00    2435160

Link

Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "What would be the point of a black card if there was no sin bin?"
Same as it was before the Sin Bin.
A sending off for the recipient and a replacement allowed from one of the allowable subtitutes.
If the player had gotten a yellow prior to the black card, then a red is added, no replacement.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 763 - 29/07/2022 18:48:57    2435308

Link

The mark is only going to become more prevalent the more teams train for it.

Long balls into the square are exciting but now as soon as the players makes the catch, often unchallenged, all that excitement goes and we're all treated to that wonderful skill of the tap over free!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 30/07/2022 08:42:13    2435327

Link

Replying To Saynothing:  "Said it before, even when Mc Shane played a blinder v Dublin a few years back, rotten rule. Clifford doesn't even need to take marks he's that good but it's a handy option. It's making the game too simple for forward's."
That's the third intercounty season with the advanced mark and still we see very few of them in games, the vast majority of intercounty forwards didn't score any at all this season. If winning these were as handy as Clifford makes it look I'd have thought a few more lads would be at it as well?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 30/07/2022 10:29:10    2435338

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "The mark is only going to become more prevalent the more teams train for it.

Long balls into the square are exciting but now as soon as the players makes the catch, often unchallenged, all that excitement goes and we're all treated to that wonderful skill of the tap over free!"
I agree. It was taken from another sport, a sport where the tackle is the opposite to the tackle in gaelic football.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 30/07/2022 11:40:37    2435350

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "The mark is only going to become more prevalent the more teams train for it.

Long balls into the square are exciting but now as soon as the players makes the catch, often unchallenged, all that excitement goes and we're all treated to that wonderful skill of the tap over free!"
Most points, whatever skill is involved in creating them, generally tend to end up being tap overs.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 30/07/2022 12:05:06    2435358

Link

Go back and look matches a few years ago and see the way the ball was caught at midfield from a kickout. The midfielder was immediately surrounded and ref did him for overcarrying. That was very annoying and completely unfair on the player who caught the ball. The midfield mark sorted that out and is a good rule.
There is a lot more annoying thing about modern football than the forward mark. The the way teams can perform endless handpasses, backwards, forwards sideways and round and round it goes. A big reason for doing it is the tactics of having every player behind the ball and there's pretty much no place to kick it. Rory Gallagher is a leading proponent of such tactics. The Ulster final wasn't necessarily a good spectacle this year. Well it was a sight better than 2016 that was pure drudgery.

You're trying to come up with ways to counter this and the forward mark does actually help. There is actually a kick and a catch and the forward won't be surrounded and done for overcarrying. I'm surprised more teams don't try to engineer it more against the packed defence to be honest. If they could then it might encourage more pressure on the kicker and free up the game. I'd try it for another while yet and if it doesn't help free up the game enough then try other things. Stopping the goalkeeper being passed to in open play would probably help. It's a simple rule to implement as well.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 815 - 30/07/2022 12:52:47    2435373

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "Most points, whatever skill is involved in creating them, generally tend to end up being tap overs."
Most points aren't scored with the 29 other players forced to stop playing and watch and give a round of applause for the dazzling skill of catching a ball being rewarded.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 30/07/2022 13:12:04    2435377

Link

Replying To Gaa Fan:  "I agree. The skills of the game have been eroded in the name of one thing or another. You always had high fielders but that had to be combined with the skill to do something constructive with the ball once you got it.
Keep the black card, if you wish, but get rid of the sin bin. The referee on Sunday did not issue a black card to a goalie and rule or no rule, used his judgement, and just awarded a free. The foul was not malicious, dangerous, and no harm done. Most modern day refs would have gone by the book. He is to be commended for that. All fouls are committed to prevent the other having an advantage.
A bigger gripe with me is free kicks from the hand. Was brought in by the scholastic minds in Croke Park "to speed up the game". This one is a laugh."
That's looking at things with very rose tinted glasses to be honest. Back in the day it was a man on man game so if you caught the ball you weren't immediately surrounded so the kick out mark wasn't needed. Folks seem all agree that the goalkeeper should have been done for a back card. The rule is to deliberately pull down. Did the keeper pull him down. He pulled him alright but not down. Per the rule as it's written I think ref got that right. I think they need to change the wording of that rule mind.
I also actually don't get the point about free kicks especially as
-Rian o'neill free against galway to bring it to et was an epic kick from the ground.
-Sean ose kick to beat dublin another epic kick from the ground. That probably won them the all ireland
-Last year tyrone beat kerry in et. In that game niall Morgan kicked a free from the ground from 70metres.

If teams don't have players who can kick from the ground then more fool them and plenty do. If players want to kick from their hands from closer in then what's the big deal.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 815 - 30/07/2022 13:14:56    2435378

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "Most points aren't scored with the 29 other players forced to stop playing and watch and give a round of applause for the dazzling skill of catching a ball being rewarded."
You try catching a ball kicked from the other end of the pitch when there's 5 lads around you, see how easy it is.
Those two marks Clifford caught against us in the first half last Sunday were as exciting as any score.

Different code I know but watching Tommy Walsh catch the sliotar in his hand despite it being contested by bigger men was as impressive as any skill for me.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 30/07/2022 13:28:22    2435383

Link

My own view is that a mark should only be counted if its over the head. I would like marks for kickouts but not sure about the forward mark. On the frees from the hand. They do speed up the game and tbh a free off the ground in your defense would be nearly a disadvantage. However I would like if you were not allowed score frees from the hand. The only exception being a sideline ball. Allow frees from hand but to score they have to be taken off the ground. Look in all fairness i know a 14 yard free in front of goal is easy but there's still a bit of skill. A 14 yard free in front of goals off the hands well a 12 year old would score.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3913 - 30/07/2022 13:55:23    2435399

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "Most points, whatever skill is involved in creating them, generally tend to end up being tap overs."
Shane Walsh scored 9 points in the AIF, I don't recall any tap overs!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 30/07/2022 14:08:05    2435411

Link

Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "That's looking at things with very rose tinted glasses to be honest. Back in the day it was a man on man game so if you caught the ball you weren't immediately surrounded so the kick out mark wasn't needed. Folks seem all agree that the goalkeeper should have been done for a back card. The rule is to deliberately pull down. Did the keeper pull him down. He pulled him alright but not down. Per the rule as it's written I think ref got that right. I think they need to change the wording of that rule mind.
I also actually don't get the point about free kicks especially as
-Rian o'neill free against galway to bring it to et was an epic kick from the ground.
-Sean ose kick to beat dublin another epic kick from the ground. That probably won them the all ireland
-Last year tyrone beat kerry in et. In that game niall Morgan kicked a free from the ground from 70metres.

If teams don't have players who can kick from the ground then more fool them and plenty do. If players want to kick from their hands from closer in then what's the big deal."
It's amazing how many people and experts who do not understand the ambiguous rules as often written by the GAA rules committee, who are intellectually challenged at the least.. This is true in both codes. Pulled down is how the rule applied. Not pulled back. Unfortunately some of the misinterpreters are given a profile on t.v. and are journalists for the sport. ANY foul within a designated marked should be a two point free. Any foul within the square a penalty. If you want to continue with cards give a yellow for the first offence and a red for the second. Put the black card where the monkey shoved the rusty six pence and the mark in the same place.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3039 - 30/07/2022 14:41:52    2435418

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "You try catching a ball kicked from the other end of the pitch when there's 5 lads around you, see how easy it is.
Those two marks Clifford caught against us in the first half last Sunday were as exciting as any score.

Different code I know but watching Tommy Walsh catch the sliotar in his hand despite it being contested by bigger men was as impressive as any skill for me."
The ball being kicked from the other end of the pitch! Unbelievable skills to both kick that and the catch too, literally unbelievable. Literally.

Clifford's 2 marks were nowhere near as exciting as nearly all the scores from play because he made the catch and then the game had to stop. It would have been far more exciting had he played on. He was right of course to take the handy tapover free.

The mark, both at midfield and in attack, takes excitement out of the game. As a player catches the ball and then the whole game must stop. It's really a silly rule that removed excitement and skill from the game. If Clifford had to play on last in week he would have had to show off more skills of the game to beat his man and kick under pressure. Instead we're robbed of that contest because he caught the ball, in at least one occasion not really under that much pressure.

Yes, sometimes they got bottled up but mostly they actually didn't and the game was more exciting for it. The mark will only become more prevalent the longer it's in the game too.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 30/07/2022 14:59:18    2435421

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "The ball being kicked from the other end of the pitch! Unbelievable skills to both kick that and the catch too, literally unbelievable. Literally.

Clifford's 2 marks were nowhere near as exciting as nearly all the scores from play because he made the catch and then the game had to stop. It would have been far more exciting had he played on. He was right of course to take the handy tapover free.

The mark, both at midfield and in attack, takes excitement out of the game. As a player catches the ball and then the whole game must stop. It's really a silly rule that removed excitement and skill from the game. If Clifford had to play on last in week he would have had to show off more skills of the game to beat his man and kick under pressure. Instead we're robbed of that contest because he caught the ball, in at least one occasion not really under that much pressure.

Yes, sometimes they got bottled up but mostly they actually didn't and the game was more exciting for it. The mark will only become more prevalent the longer it's in the game too."
It wouldn't have been more exciting had he played on, he would have come down, been surrounded, over carried, free out, or else he would have been fouled, free in (depends on the ref really),unless of course Joyce decided to just leave him off which wasn't going to happen.
Fielding is one of the great skills of the game and I'm glad it's being rewarded, the mark helps to offset the effect of the blanket defence too, and encourages the kick pass too.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 30/07/2022 16:10:56    2435441

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "It wouldn't have been more exciting had he played on, he would have come down, been surrounded, over carried, free out, or else he would have been fouled, free in (depends on the ref really),unless of course Joyce decided to just leave him off which wasn't going to happen.
Fielding is one of the great skills of the game and I'm glad it's being rewarded, the mark helps to offset the effect of the blanket defence too, and encourages the kick pass too."
I think you're wrong.

Before the mark it wasn't just one of two things happening after a high catch like you've painted above. To say it was either a free in or a free out and nothing else is disingenuous.

Plenty of high balls in resulted in scores/chances etc before the mark.

Now we'll just have boring, low skill, tap over frees.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 30/07/2022 16:23:20    2435452

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "I think you're wrong.

Before the mark it wasn't just one of two things happening after a high catch like you've painted above. To say it was either a free in or a free out and nothing else is disingenuous.

Plenty of high balls in resulted in scores/chances etc before the mark.

Now we'll just have boring, low skill, tap over frees."
You're taking a narrow enough view here. I'm not a great lover of the forward mark but it as at least a bit bit of an antidote the handpassing quagmire the game can get itself into. Kerry would not have been pumping them balls in if the mark didn't exist because the galway blanket defence would swarm clifford when he won it. Grand years ago because there was room but that just doesn't exist now.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 815 - 30/07/2022 17:29:12    2435469

Link

Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "You're taking a narrow enough view here. I'm not a great lover of the forward mark but it as at least a bit bit of an antidote the handpassing quagmire the game can get itself into. Kerry would not have been pumping them balls in if the mark didn't exist because the galway blanket defence would swarm clifford when he won it. Grand years ago because there was room but that just doesn't exist now."
Kerry literally pumped a load of high balls in in the 2019 finals.

They put a good few high balls in against yourselves in 2014 as well.

Mass defences have been around for about 20 years at this stage, and throughout that time the high ball in has still been used to counter it.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 30/07/2022 17:42:17    2435475

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "Kerry literally pumped a load of high balls in in the 2019 finals.

They put a good few high balls in against yourselves in 2014 as well.

Mass defences have been around for about 20 years at this stage, and throughout that time the high ball in has still been used to counter it."
The mass defence started properly in the donegal vs dublin match in 2011. Anything up to that was only in the ha'penny place. You can pick out examples of a few games or examples and perhaps at times management it should be used even more but without the mark I've no doubt kerry would have not tried it as much because for the most part you are giving possession away or getting swarmed when you win it. Teams are much more possession focused than they used be. I've not much issue with something that helps alleviate the constant hand passing even it is the forward mark.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 815 - 30/07/2022 17:59:43    2435481

Link