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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Absolutely. If there was a sitting US President directly opposed to investment in Ireland (unlikely) then there would be major alarm bells ringing. Sammy and co getting all flustered because yet another figure of major importance is attempting to illustrate to them the benefits of having unique access to BOTH UK and EU markets. But no - flegs...

If the DUP were offered the chance to save the entire planet from utter annihilation by a meteorite by accepting a united Ireland they would undoubtedly just get their telescopes out and watch the big rock sending us all to our doom."
The GFA ensures there will be no united Ireland. People really ought to read it sometime instead of listening to a certain party who signed up to it when they agreed to take part in running the north. Smoke and mirrors. DUP just don't like fenians! Not complicated any of this, really.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 13/04/2023 11:12:20    2470750

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Absolutely. If there was a sitting US President directly opposed to investment in Ireland (unlikely) then there would be major alarm bells ringing. Sammy and co getting all flustered because yet another figure of major importance is attempting to illustrate to them the benefits of having unique access to BOTH UK and EU markets. But no - flegs...

If the DUP were offered the chance to save the entire planet from utter annihilation by a meteorite by accepting a united Ireland they would undoubtedly just get their telescopes out and watch the big rock sending us all to our doom."
Half of them (DUP) believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, and that humans existed at the same time as dinosaurs.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2615 - 13/04/2023 12:02:37    2470775

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The GFA ensures there will be no united Ireland. People really ought to read it sometime instead of listening to a certain party who signed up to it when they agreed to take part in running the north. Smoke and mirrors. DUP just don't like fenians! Not complicated any of this, really."
Really? I thought that there was a provision for a border poll within it? That if enough people in the North of Ireland wanted the border gone then the UK/Irish governments cannot block it?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9342 - 13/04/2023 13:30:44    2470809

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Really? I thought that there was a provision for a border poll within it? That if enough people in the North of Ireland wanted the border gone then the UK/Irish governments cannot block it?"
There was a provision for a border poll in Sunningdale and Hillsborough. Republicans rejected both because they knew that they like the GFA maintain partition.

Border poll is at discretion of Whitehall if there is evidence that a poll is likely to lead to a vote for unity.

There is none. The combined nationalist vote has barely changed since 1998 and is well below 50%, so there is no evidence to suggest there will be a border poll any time soon.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 13/04/2023 14:05:44    2470823

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I read a contributor in the British press today come down heavy on Biden and his insults to the UK…blah blah blah……anyway he was from the "The Margaret Tatcher Centre of Freedom" I've heard it all now.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11325 - 13/04/2023 19:32:19    2470888

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Replying To yew_tree:  "I read a contributor in the British press today come down heavy on Biden and his insults to the UK…blah blah blah……anyway he was from the "The Margaret Tatcher Centre of Freedom" I've heard it all now."
Another Willie Mullins gamble underway for the English National on Galliard Du Mesnil. First ten place will cover my punt on him to win. Pretty open this year, with a few chances including Any Second Now despite the monster weight.

Can't honestly see Ain't That A Shame getting the distance, never mind winning. Owner seemed a bit puzzled over why it was being gambled on earlier in week.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 15/04/2023 10:07:28    2471042

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Any Grand National tips? I've gone for Delta Work.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2615 - 15/04/2023 11:49:41    2471047

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Demonstrations at Grand National today. One horse dies.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2540 - 15/04/2023 21:17:55    2471116

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Replying To galwayford:  "Demonstrations at Grand National today. One horse dies."
If horse racing was banned as these people want, then tens of thousands of horses would have to be killed immediately, and the population of horses be reduced to tiny numbers globally. Some of same people want to ban people having domestic dogs. Same consequences which of course they haven't considered.

It is of course sad to see any creature die, but it is part of life for all creatures.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 16/04/2023 08:31:33    2471135

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "There was a provision for a border poll in Sunningdale and Hillsborough. Republicans rejected both because they knew that they like the GFA maintain partition.

Border poll is at discretion of Whitehall if there is evidence that a poll is likely to lead to a vote for unity.

There is none. The combined nationalist vote has barely changed since 1998 and is well below 50%, so there is no evidence to suggest there will be a border poll any time soon."
When NI was created the powers that be believed that there would be a Protestant majority forever. It has taken less than 100 years to overturn that majority. The empire and majority are now gone where do the Loyalists turn to when they know that the English have no strategic interest in the statelet anymore. Correct there is no evidence however how many people would have predicted BREXIT? Yes there will have to be continual changes in the way that everyone north and south approaches each other but to say that there will never be unity is wrong as there is a clear way in which it could happen.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1825 - 16/04/2023 11:07:17    2471157

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Replying To zinny:  "When NI was created the powers that be believed that there would be a Protestant majority forever. It has taken less than 100 years to overturn that majority. The empire and majority are now gone where do the Loyalists turn to when they know that the English have no strategic interest in the statelet anymore. Correct there is no evidence however how many people would have predicted BREXIT? Yes there will have to be continual changes in the way that everyone north and south approaches each other but to say that there will never be unity is wrong as there is a clear way in which it could happen."
There is a unionist political majority. A quite definite one 60:40 according to elections results, and in polls a sizeable number of SDLP voters prefer the status quo.

So what is the "clear way" unity will happen?

1918 was the last proper referendum on the issue and that has been denied ever since.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 16/04/2023 14:21:36    2471186

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "There is a unionist political majority. A quite definite one 60:40 according to elections results, and in polls a sizeable number of SDLP voters prefer the status quo.

So what is the "clear way" unity will happen?

1918 was the last proper referendum on the issue and that has been denied ever since."
Not really sure if you are stuck in a time warp or something but where did you get 60:40 from? You do understand that APNI is aligned on neither side of the political divide? Those that would identify themselves as traditional Unionists got 40% of the vote not 60%. On the other hand neither does it mean that the 60% want a border poll. However as I said the foundation on which NI was created, to always maintain a overwhelming protestant majority has been wiped out, the empire is gone and the need to NI as a strategic asset to the UK no longer exists. It has been made clear by the UK government, that they have no strategic interest in NI and if there is a poll requested - say via the NI assembly they would not stand in its way. Do you not believe that they would grant one and what makes you believe that to be the case?

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1825 - 16/04/2023 15:17:00    2471201

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A time warp? Eh, the election results since 1998. Barely a shift in the breakdown between parties that support united Ireland and those who do not. 60:40.

If you think that the Alliance Party is pro united Ireland, you seriously need to do some reading. By the way, it has always, ever since its foundation 50 years ago described itself as neutral. They mean neutral in sectarian terms.

Vast majority of their voters are small u unionists. What makes you think all of these people are going to wake up some day and vote for a united Ireland? There is not even a basis for calling a border poll so the entire thing is delusional. Which suits all of them.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 16/04/2023 17:59:23    2471228

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Replying To zinny:  "Not really sure if you are stuck in a time warp or something but where did you get 60:40 from? You do understand that APNI is aligned on neither side of the political divide? Those that would identify themselves as traditional Unionists got 40% of the vote not 60%. On the other hand neither does it mean that the 60% want a border poll. However as I said the foundation on which NI was created, to always maintain a overwhelming protestant majority has been wiped out, the empire is gone and the need to NI as a strategic asset to the UK no longer exists. It has been made clear by the UK government, that they have no strategic interest in NI and if there is a poll requested - say via the NI assembly they would not stand in its way. Do you not believe that they would grant one and what makes you believe that to be the case?"
By the way, there is no mechanism whereby the Stormont Assembly can ask for a poll. Read the Good Friday Agreement. It sets out clearly what the terms are,

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 16/04/2023 18:30:52    2471241

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "By the way, there is no mechanism whereby the Stormont Assembly can ask for a poll. Read the Good Friday Agreement. It sets out clearly what the terms are,"
The mechanism is called a motion.

It would still be the SoS call but nothing stops Stormont for calling for one via a motion.

It would likely be vetoed by unionists but where such a motion to command majority support from the Assembly, it would undoubtedly mark a significant moment.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 16/04/2023 19:29:50    2471257

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Replying To artisan:  "The mechanism is called a motion.

It would still be the SoS call but nothing stops Stormont for calling for one via a motion.

It would likely be vetoed by unionists but where such a motion to command majority support from the Assembly, it would undoubtedly mark a significant moment."
They can pass all the motions they want. All theatrics.

Final call is Whitehall's and can only be called when SOS has evidence that a poll might lead to a vote in favour of a united Ireland. There is none, and there won't be, and they'll still be talking about it on the 50th anniversary of the GFA just as the parties in south got generations out of pretending there was going to be a united Ireland.

The only valid poll would be one held throughout Ireland on the same day, with the same question and decided on a 32 county basis. That is what republicans used to call for,

And that by the way is no justification for anyone continuing with another doomed armed campaign to waste more lives.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 16/04/2023 19:51:34    2471261

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Great to see All Elite Wrestling coming to Wembley stadium, can't wait

DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 281 - 16/04/2023 22:39:00    2471292

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "They can pass all the motions they want. All theatrics.

Final call is Whitehall's and can only be called when SOS has evidence that a poll might lead to a vote in favour of a united Ireland. There is none, and there won't be, and they'll still be talking about it on the 50th anniversary of the GFA just as the parties in south got generations out of pretending there was going to be a united Ireland.

The only valid poll would be one held throughout Ireland on the same day, with the same question and decided on a 32 county basis. That is what republicans used to call for,

And that by the way is no justification for anyone continuing with another doomed armed campaign to waste more lives."
'Doomed armed campaign'?

The 'armed campaign' came about because of the state violence and murder of a certain group people, who were peacefully protesting against inequalities and discrimination. To call it 'doomed' is false. The situation for catholics/nationalists in the North is now far better than it was over 50 years ago, although not ideal.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2615 - 17/04/2023 11:10:03    2471327

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "'Doomed armed campaign'?

The 'armed campaign' came about because of the state violence and murder of a certain group people, who were peacefully protesting against inequalities and discrimination. To call it 'doomed' is false. The situation for catholics/nationalists in the North is now far better than it was over 50 years ago, although not ideal."
It was doomed because by the 90s because the Brits had so many spies embedded within the IRA.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 17/04/2023 11:20:48    2471331

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "'Doomed armed campaign'?

The 'armed campaign' came about because of the state violence and murder of a certain group people, who were peacefully protesting against inequalities and discrimination. To call it 'doomed' is false. The situation for catholics/nationalists in the North is now far better than it was over 50 years ago, although not ideal."
The IRA campaign was for a united Ireland. Not for civil rights. In fact the Provos were formed from a split over that very issue!

Is there a united Ireland?

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2927 - 17/04/2023 11:25:32    2471335

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