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Replying To supersub15: "Supply and demand, in this case its demand, the cost of kerosene has not dropped pro rata to related oil based products and the price of a barrel of crude oil, petrol and diesel have dropped but more could be done.
The cold snaps we are experiencing suggests heating is a must especially for the older folk, the oil company's know people need oil for heating so its an opportunity for them to make a quick buck, they also know that our government are generously subsidizing most peoples increase in their cost of living including electricity and heating charges, so their saying quietly we'll have some of that too please, so the price stays up, if and when the temperature rises and the government subsidy ends the the price of kerosene will drop." That is good point re subsidies. If the opposition proposal for state to make up difference between prices in summer and current prices was approved - as it was in Britain I think - then the companies would just whack more on in "good conscience" that state is picking up tab. that's the sort of disaster awaits us if certain party and rent freezes and property seizures take power.
Subsidies like this should be targeted at people below a certain income anyway. Pensioners, social welfare recipients, minimum wage. No need for most people to have part of their bills paid.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2521 - 17/12/2022 12:31:51
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Replying To supersub15: "Supply and demand, in this case its demand, the cost of kerosene has not dropped pro rata to related oil based products and the price of a barrel of crude oil, petrol and diesel have dropped but more could be done.
The cold snaps we are experiencing suggests heating is a must especially for the older folk, the oil company's know people need oil for heating so its an opportunity for them to make a quick buck, they also know that our government are generously subsidizing most peoples increase in their cost of living including electricity and heating charges, so their saying quietly we'll have some of that too please, so the price stays up, if and when the temperature rises and the government subsidy ends the the price of kerosene will drop." I get your point, but I don't see the price of ice cream going sky high during a heat wave. Oil companies getting away with robbery. At least Dick Turpin wore a mask.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2006 - 17/12/2022 21:36:41
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While there's talk about public sector pay etc
An Irish soldier was killed overseas and another is in a critical condition. Both while doing their jobs. A job they're paid a fraction of that of the supposed "heroes" of the public sector.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 19/12/2022 08:32:36
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What a game of football! Definitely the best World Cup final I've seen in my lifetime. For the first 80 odd minutes it looked as though Argentina were just going to coast to victory. France were an absolute shambles and it looked as though the tank was completely empty. But in Mbappe they have a player for the ages. He exploded into life and dragged his team back into it.
I thought extra time would be one of those cyncial half hours of football where both teams would fear losing so much that they'd settle to take their chances on penalties. Not a bit of it though. It was like two boxers slugging it out but neither able to land the knockout blow. The last 30 seconds of the match summed it all up. Muani missed a great chance for footballing immortality and moments later Lauturo Martinez did the same.
When it went to penalties i thought Argentina would do it. Martinez has a proven track record of getting in players heads and a couple of the French players were definitely put off by his actions. It might not be very sportsmanlike but I'm sure he isn't too bothered waking up this morning a World Cup champion.
Finally, what a story for Messi. He isn't the player he once was but is still capable of big moments to influence games. It was fantastic to see the almost child-like glee on his face as he prepared to lift the trophy (in spite of Infantinio's determination to hog his limelight). These GOAT arguements are tiresome, but without doubt Messi is right up there in the conversation with Pele and Maradona as the best ever.
Congratulations Argentina on a well deserved victory.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 19/12/2022 10:09:42
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Replying To GreenandRed: "There's not many economic systems anywhere in the world that the standard of living isn't better for them than it was in the 80s or 90s." Be careful to clearly define the parameters on that.
We have the first generation ever to be better educated, but financially worse of than their parents.
30 years ago one working class wage could raise a family and buy a home.
Two salaries isn't enough for either of those now.
We need to undertake massive social housing schemes again for the foreseeable.
If rent / mortgage returned to equilibrium (33%) of income, the whole economy immediately feels the benefit of it.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2625 - 19/12/2022 10:37:34
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Be careful to clearly define the parameters on that.
We have the first generation ever to be better educated, but financially worse of than their parents.
30 years ago one working class wage could raise a family and buy a home.
Two salaries isn't enough for either of those now.
We need to undertake massive social housing schemes again for the foreseeable.
If rent / mortgage returned to equilibrium (33%) of income, the whole economy immediately feels the benefit of it." Spot on Doylerwex
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11725 - 19/12/2022 10:54:16
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My team of the tournament...
1. Emiliano Martinez
2. Achraf Hakimi
3. Marcos Acuna
4. Josko Gvardiol
5. Cristian Romero
6. Sofyan Amrabat
7. Luka Modric
8. Antoine Griezmann
9. Julian Alvarez
10. Lionel Messi
11. Kyllian Mbappe
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 19/12/2022 11:56:38
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Replying To supersub15: "Argentina I - Saudi Arabia 2. (Messi 1 Peno)
'tis a pity Argentina can't sign Ronaldo." Ahem....
Looks like Argentina's squad was OK in the end.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 19/12/2022 12:09:37
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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet: "Messi is over-rated. He keeps flopping in world cups.
And that's because Messi is no leader of men. Far from leading a team, Messi *relies on his team to make him look good*. At club level, for most of his career, he was surrounded by the best team in club history. At international level, the set-up is that Argentina set out to play boring football -defend, defend, defend relentlessly and then it either goes to penalties or Messi tucks away a chance on the break. In each case, Messi needs help to shine; to have other players create the platform for him.
The guys on RTÉ commentating on previous world cups kept saying how Argentina needed to 'bring Messi into the game'. I tell you, you never needed to say that about Maradona.
Sure, Messi's a great player and nobody will deny that. But his blinkered, hysterical fans do him no favours. Calling him the 'best player ever' is not an objective assessment of Messi's standing in the game and loses Messi fans among people who have a longer view of football history. Messi's up there, but he's far from the best - if you know anything about the game and have a knowledge of players who were playing before 2000 ... it was Pele who noted that Messi "only shoots with one leg, only has one skill and doesn't head the ball well".
This commenter in the Guardian (below the article at this link) has a thoughtful take on this issue:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/25/diego-maradona-dies-one-of-greatest-footballers-of-all-time-argentina-world-cup-1986#comment-145552508
He cites what Maradona said about Messi having a "pecho frio" - a 'cold chest' who does not lead his team.
Not a charge that could ever have been levelled at Maradona. He entered a pitch like he was a gladiator entering the
colosseum, chest out, eyes afire, 100% committed. Even at the last world cup, when Argentina scored, there he was, animated, furious, and triumphantly flipping the double bird to the opposing fans; when all of his contemporaries were, by that stage of their lives, sitting quietly in the bourgeois seats.
Maradona recalled how, before the 1986 match against England: 'If it had been up to the Argentines, each of the players would have gone out there with a machine gun and killed Shilton, Stevens, Butcher, Fenwick, Sansom, Steven, Hodge, Reid, Hoddle, Beardsley and Lineker." Nothing held back there ...
"Pelé scored more goals. Lionel Messi has won more trophies. Both have
lived more stable lives than the overweight former cocaine addict who
tops this list, whose relationship with football became increasingly
strained the longer his career continued. But if you've seen Diego
Maradona with a football at his feet, you'll understand."
- Andrew Murray on Maradona topping FourFourTwo magazine's "100 Greatest Footballers Ever" list, July 2017
There's competence, there's talent, and then there is a spirit, a joy and an aesthetic which transcends the sport. In that surreal latter category, I only recognise 5 soccer geniuses:
- Garrincha
- Best
- Cruyff
- Maradona
- Zidane
I respect the great Pelé 100%, but I'm too individualistic (and probably too shallow) ever to put such a decent, sensible, gifted, team player on the same pedestal as the above 5.
This was one of the best moments of the 1980s:
https://youtu.be/2JASEUO59YM
https://youtu.be/hF_2arqQLwo
Note how he's playing down the right wing, yet he never uses his right foot. You literally wouldn't have had a
clue what he was going to do next. The second commentary gives you more of a defender's real-life perspective - what a blur of confusion it was. The overhead camera always makes it look simple.
Maradona, like Best, was a spell-weaver in an age of thugs. Maradona still holds the record for most fouls suffered in a World Cup (Mexico 86) and most fouls in a single World Cup game (23 against Italy at Spain 82). And let's be clear. We're not talking dainty little tactical tumbles. These were often staged assaults. Against South Korea in Mexico City, Maradona is punched in the face and left "screaming in pain" after "one of them spiked me so hard it went through my sock and my bandages". Playing Peru, he is marked so brutally by Luis Reyna that as Maradona leaves the pitch to have his wounds tended, Reyna goes over to the touchline and just waits there for him to come out again, ignoring the rest of the game going on behind him. After his ankle is snapped by an infamous Andoni Goikoetxea lunge in 1983 ("it sounded just like a piece of wood splitting"), Maradona is carried off on a blanket and driven to hospital in a small borrowed van. Before one qualifier he's kicked in the knee by a random passer-by as he gets off the team bus, and stays up until 5am before the game trying to ice it in his bedroom. Imagine any of that happening to Messi now. People would be jailed. The internet would break. Even as Maradona scored his unforgettable second goal he got a kick from Terry Butcher that left his ankle swollen to twice its size after the game. In today's game, about half that English team would have got the line.
The swagger, the warrior-spirit, the irrepressibility, the joy of life that his manner of playing expressed, the surreal ability, that total domination of the ball. Maradona, at his peak, played football that was a carpe diem metaphor. He was in love with the football; it clung to him like iron filings to a magnet:
https://youtu.be/4vashrNoXTE
And in an era of slot passes and 'playing the percentages' and 'getting into the scoring area first', we'll never see glorious goals like these again:
https://youtu.be/xp7Zilk2ABo?t=165" A lot to pick through in that post....
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 19/12/2022 12:12:28
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Replying To Saynothing: "I get your point, but I don't see the price of ice cream going sky high during a heat wave. Oil companies getting away with robbery. At least Dick Turpin wore a mask." Its fair to say our heatwaves we experience here barely last any more than a day or two, so they see it more favourable to keep it over priced 24 / 7 / 365 than to chop and change the price every couple of days.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 19/12/2022 12:16:44
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Brilliant win delighted for Argentina and Messi, what a way to finish his magnificent career winning the World Cup,
Think that was the most nerve wrecking soccer final I've ever watched, looked like Argentina were strolling home till France got that penalty, tough on Mbappe scoring a hatrick in the World Cup final and still lose, he will have another chance though I have no doubt, I'd say France are a good bet to win the Euros in 2024.
I wonder does Shearer still think Argentina are not a good team? what a clown.
also wonder did they find the ball that Kane blasted over the bar yet?
That was a brilliant World Cup in Qatar, you'd have to laugh and the tv pundits sitting there talking about the migrant workers etc and them sitting there getting massive money for being there, if they feel that bad give some of their own millions to the migrant workers fund, they won't do that though, they'll talk plenty ***** about it though.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2739 - 19/12/2022 12:27:47
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Brilliant win delighted for Argentina and Messi, what a way to finish his magnificent career winning the World Cup,
Think that was the most nerve wrecking soccer final I've ever watched, looked like Argentina were strolling home till France got that penalty, tough on Mbappe scoring a hatrick in the World Cup final and still lose, he will have another chance though I have no doubt, I'd say France are a good bet to win the Euros in 2024.
I wonder does Shearer still think Argentina are not a good team? what a clown.
also wonder did they find the ball that Kane blasted over the bar yet?
That was a brilliant World Cup in Qatar, you'd have to laugh and the tv pundits sitting there talking about the migrant workers etc and them sitting there getting massive money for being there, if they feel that bad give some of their own millions to the migrant workers fund, they won't do that though, they'll talk plenty ***** about it though." Yeah the likes of Lineker, Gary Neville and co love being up on their soap boxes giving it plenty about this and that. But as you say, I'm sure they were well looked after in terms of remuneration and accommodation for the last 6 weeks.
It couldn't have worked out better for the Qataris. They got a great tournament and the two marquee players from the final are actually employed by them albeit indirectly via PSG. The emir also managed to get himself in on proceedings by foisting the bisht on Messi just before he lifted the trophy. Sportswashing 101. But look, I follow Newcastle Utd and a similar MO is in progress there under the Saudis. Football lost its soul to the almight £/$/€ a lomng time ago. It's obvious and not nice to see but probably irreversible by this stage?
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 19/12/2022 12:47:16
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My team of the World Cup -
Bono
Hakimi, Romero, Silva, Acuna,
Fernandes, Mac Allister, Griezmann
Gakpo, Messi, Mbappe
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 19/12/2022 14:07:44
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The Croatian left back Soso was probably the most impressive left back in the tournament.
Amrabat was excellent for Morocco .
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 19/12/2022 14:56:52
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The absolute spoofers who questioned Messi will be hiding for a while now. The same spoofers who said he was only great because of Xavi and Iniesta at Barca. They will be absolutely sick today.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 19/12/2022 20:11:47
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "That is good point re subsidies. If the opposition proposal for state to make up difference between prices in summer and current prices was approved - as it was in Britain I think - then the companies would just whack more on in "good conscience" that state is picking up tab. that's the sort of disaster awaits us if certain party and rent freezes and property seizures take power.
Subsidies like this should be targeted at people below a certain income anyway. Pensioners, social welfare recipients, minimum wage. No need for most people to have part of their bills paid." Apologies in advance for moaning especially during Christmas week, however just a couple of pointers without expanding on them too much.
Kerosene is an essential oil-based product that is being priced out of most peoples reach, fact. Electricity, gas and heating oil are being subsidized by the state as I have pointed out here recently, since the subsidies were introduce to the house holders etc, the costs have skyrocketed, don't blame the importer blame the local suppliers in my own opinion, 500 liters (about twice the volume of a bathtub) cost between 625 and 655 euros, from memory that is 55 euros less that what it cost for 500 liters when the cost was at it highest this year, we are being ripped off.
Two years ago approx, Bord Na Mona got an extension of 12 months to continue producing peat briquettes when they were selling for 4-25 to 4-50 per bale, during that year they produced thousands of tons of briquettes, at the beginning of this year they were released into the market and the selling price remained steady, shortly after at the start of the war in Ukraine the price began to rise, at the same time there was a question mark over the availability of gas from Russia and concern over the possible power outages here at home coincidently the cost of peat briquetts shot up over night to a staggering 7 euro per bale they are now retailing at 8 euro and in some places 8-50 a bale, keeping in mind they were manufactured at a fraction of the price they are selling at today, ripped off again. We are out of pocket because of the subsidy, plus another 20% ish.
Pensioners will get an increase of 12 euros per week from January the 1st over 52 weeks that is the equivalent of 624 euros by coincidence or otherwise that is cheapest that 500 liters of kerosene can be bought for today.
Apologies again for the moan. Rant over for the moment.
To be continued soon.
Have a merry and healthy Christmas.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 19/12/2022 20:26:13
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Replying To oneoff: "Are the bleeding hart nurses. The only sector in Ireland who do any work. Or at least that's what they want you think anyway." Finally someone has said it...
Nurses in the UK are today urging the PM to "do the right thing", and succumb to their pay demands.
I'm just off now to ask my boss to "do the right thing"....
streaker (Galway) - Posts: 497 - 20/12/2022 13:13:17
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Replying To TheFlaker: "The absolute spoofers who questioned Messi will be hiding for a while now. The same spoofers who said he was only great because of Xavi and Iniesta at Barca. They will be absolutely sick today." What was going on with him with PSG last season? Mediocre French League whereby a player of his talent should be scoring goals for fun yet only managed 6 league goals. Perhaps the then PSG manager Poch should ship some of the blame or just the case that Messi was totally lost having left Barcelona after all those years.
This world cup was certainly his "last dance" and has left all a last memories.
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3338 - 20/12/2022 14:23:59
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Replying To Gaa_lover: "What was going on with him with PSG last season? Mediocre French League whereby a player of his talent should be scoring goals for fun yet only managed 6 league goals. Perhaps the then PSG manager Poch should ship some of the blame or just the case that Messi was totally lost having left Barcelona after all those years.
This world cup was certainly his "last dance" and has left all a last memories." Yes his form at PSG last year was puzzling. But I think we sometimes forget that players are human. He moved to Paris having spent most of his teenage years and all his adult life in Barcelona where he was undoubtedly the main man. From what I've read, PSG wouldn't be the most stable of environments with a lot of cliques and politiking going on.
They will be contenders for the CL again when it resumes. But quite how Galtier plans to inegrate Messi, Neymar and Mbappe into a cohesive attacking unit remains a mystery. I think a team can afford one superstar not doing the dirty work. But allowing three the same luxury just won't work. Someone is going to end up displeased. I have a feeling Neymar will be the man who throws the toys out.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 20/12/2022 15:08:49
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Replying To Gaa_lover: "What was going on with him with PSG last season? Mediocre French League whereby a player of his talent should be scoring goals for fun yet only managed 6 league goals. Perhaps the then PSG manager Poch should ship some of the blame or just the case that Messi was totally lost having left Barcelona after all those years.
This world cup was certainly his "last dance" and has left all a last memories." He had a slow start but was brilliant in the last couple of months. 7 goals in 13 games plus 5 in Champs League a heap of assists in both competitions. Also an injury in that time. Hardly fell off a cliff.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 20/12/2022 15:58:18
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