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Replying To BarneyGrant: "What an insightful contribution.
Let me try to help. They are statistically based estimates and forecasts. The official ones have been consistently wrong (gross under-estimates) whereas others have been correct.
The official ones are still likely to be underestimates, The population born overseas has jumped by 5% in three years since the last census.
The issue here is not the figures. The issue is whether you agree that this trend is a good thing and that it will withing 2/3 generations mean that the majority of the population of 26 counties will be born outside of the state and/or of immigrant families.
If you think that is a good thing, fine. Do not pretend that it is not happening." The majority of the population will be non Irish. Such a daft statement.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8553 - 15/10/2025 15:49:30
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "What an insightful contribution.
Let me try to help. They are statistically based estimates and forecasts. The official ones have been consistently wrong (gross under-estimates) whereas others have been correct.
The official ones are still likely to be underestimates, The population born overseas has jumped by 5% in three years since the last census.
The issue here is not the figures. The issue is whether you agree that this trend is a good thing and that it will withing 2/3 generations mean that the majority of the population of 26 counties will be born outside of the state and/or of immigrant families.
If you think that is a good thing, fine. Do not pretend that it is not happening." In three generations an immigrant family will be Irish or how many generations do you consider the Grant's to have taken to become Irish?
FullOfPorter (Roscommon) - Posts: 410 - 15/10/2025 15:52:21
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Replying To GreenandRed: "A good few of them went back to college to upskill after the crash, any in Engineering. Many of them ended up in Pharma or Tech sector which, at the time, was a steadier income and better to be in when applying for a mortgage. But still you'll find some electricians, plumbers, mechanics etc doing trade nixers on their days off. They have a huge work ethic. Not so sure about the work ethics of younger college graduates reared by hardworking Mam and Dad during the Celtic Tiger boom." The work ethic thing is a whole other debate. I employ a lot of Gen Z kids will college degrees. They feel totally let down and don't recognize a real opportunity for upward social mobility.
Can't afford a home, can't afford health insurance, can't afford kids, they're hopeless so why would they work hard when they don't see any reward?
Hardworking mam and dad are partly responsible for destroying the economy and saddling them with debt before they were able to walk.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3975 - 15/10/2025 15:57:08
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Replying To Viking66: "Where does that 36% of jobseekers figure come from Doyler? Does that include unvetted IPAS applicants who arent allowed to work here yet?" It's from the department of social protection and no, direct provision is a separate department.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3975 - 15/10/2025 15:59:01
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "What an insightful contribution.
Let me try to help. They are statistically based estimates and forecasts. The official ones have been consistently wrong (gross under-estimates) whereas others have been correct.
The official ones are still likely to be underestimates, The population born overseas has jumped by 5% in three years since the last census.
The issue here is not the figures. The issue is whether you agree that this trend is a good thing and that it will withing 2/3 generations mean that the majority of the population of 26 counties will be born outside of the state and/or of immigrant families.
If you think that is a good thing, fine. Do not pretend that it is not happening." In 2 or 3 generations wouldn't the lads be Irish? How many generations would have to go by until you wouldn't be a blow in in your opinion?
By your reckoning alot of the leaders in 1798 wouldn't even have been Irish.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17234 - 15/10/2025 15:59:57
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Replying To yew_tree: "I'd argue many college course aren't worth the paper they are written on. Too many bogus courses. Big focus needed on trades and apprenticeships. There is a huge shortage in this sector. If I had my time back again id be going down that route. Great money and plenty of work.
Many who went to college will find it hard get work in the coming years due to AI." Trades essential agree however as I say what's wrong with have many options and a lot degrees may not but lots degree are worth the paper they are on talk to graduate companies or organisation they would tell you that.
Ai will have an affect on every job or most so if that's argument from some say certain degrees worthless is bit unfair
Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 1038 - 15/10/2025 16:01:49
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Replying To GreenandRed: "It can definitely help them with managing work, family and study balance. I think if your considering a course then do some research on the course, try and talk to someone who did the course for their opinion. Some online courses are poorly managed, lecturers are hard to contact and not committed to best teach their course, give heavy hints what will be on exams. Which is great if you just need a qualification but not good if you want knowledge and practical experience of your course subjects. Others are good courses and sometimes making extra effort to get to classroom suits some students better than online classes." Fair point
Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 1038 - 15/10/2025 16:03:41
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "What an insightful contribution.
Let me try to help. They are statistically based estimates and forecasts. The official ones have been consistently wrong (gross under-estimates) whereas others have been correct.
The official ones are still likely to be underestimates, The population born overseas has jumped by 5% in three years since the last census.
The issue here is not the figures. The issue is whether you agree that this trend is a good thing and that it will withing 2/3 generations mean that the majority of the population of 26 counties will be born outside of the state and/or of immigrant families.
If you think that is a good thing, fine. Do not pretend that it is not happening." You don't need to help me on statistics. The estimates could be higher and lower than predicted. Merely stating you misrepresented future numbers as facts.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8286 - 15/10/2025 16:13:40
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Replying To TheFlaker: "The majority of the population will be non Irish. Such a daft statement." You're not debating in good faith now in fairness. You've made a statement there, that he didn't say.
His point is that a very large proportion of the population will be immigrants or within 2/3 generations of immigrant families.
This will absolutely be the case. Pretending it won't happen is denying basic math and clear demographic trends. Natural population decline within developed countries will be one of the biggest issues over the next few decades. Birth rates have fallen much faster than was forecast previously and the trend is only continuing.
Whether people think it's a good or a bad thing is irrelevant to me. It's critical that it's acknowledged however, so we can plan accordingly for it because there will be challenges as a result.
It's odd that there seems to be very few people talking about it in the media. A head in the sand approach. If you spend time in Japan, it's very much at the forefront of their discourse, as it has massive implications for their society and their economy. Japan has extremely low levels of immigration, despite their desperate need for workers and their dwindling population. They're looking at the automation route to provide a lot of services, which will be in even greater need by their aging population.
We need to start planning for this ourselves and determine what our approach is. We can maintain our population in future, but most likely only through increased immigration. An alternative is to let the population naturally reduce, and plan accordingly as it will result in services being reduced accordingly, e.g. school closures.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2596 - 15/10/2025 16:16:57
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Would something like a Government-run tradesmen company work?
I don't know about the rest of the country, but up here it can be very hard to get tradesmen. A lot of young, qualified lads head off abroad. But if there was a better incentive for them to stay put, maybe it would alleviate the pressure on the housing situation, and also help rejuvenate local rural areas?
Give them a guaranteed salary, with additional bonuses for projects completed etc. A ladder rated salary-payment-scheme based on experience and projects delivered.
Maybe pie-in the-sky thinking, others involved directly in the construction industry would obviously have better dieas than the likes of me.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 10079 - 15/10/2025 16:46:05
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Would something like a Government-run tradesmen company work?
I don't know about the rest of the country, but up here it can be very hard to get tradesmen. A lot of young, qualified lads head off abroad. But if there was a better incentive for them to stay put, maybe it would alleviate the pressure on the housing situation, and also help rejuvenate local rural areas?
Give them a guaranteed salary, with additional bonuses for projects completed etc. A ladder rated salary-payment-scheme based on experience and projects delivered.
Maybe pie-in the-sky thinking, others involved directly in the construction industry would obviously have better dieas than the likes of me." I can only imagine it would have more backhanders then boris becker
jm25 (Galway) - Posts: 1697 - 15/10/2025 16:50:52
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Replying To Doylerwex: "The work ethic thing is a whole other debate. I employ a lot of Gen Z kids will college degrees. They feel totally let down and don't recognize a real opportunity for upward social mobility.
Can't afford a home, can't afford health insurance, can't afford kids, they're hopeless so why would they work hard when they don't see any reward?
Hardworking mam and dad are partly responsible for destroying the economy and saddling them with debt before they were able to walk." I bet you they've plenty of money for finance payments on big fancy cars and vaping
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2535 - 15/10/2025 17:22:18
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Replying To Viking66: "In 2 or 3 generations wouldn't the lads be Irish? How many generations would have to go by until you wouldn't be a blow in in your opinion?
By your reckoning alot of the leaders in 1798 wouldn't even have been Irish." What a question that is.
What is Irish? A nation or an ethnicity or both?
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3975 - 15/10/2025 17:39:14
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Would something like a Government-run tradesmen company work?
I don't know about the rest of the country, but up here it can be very hard to get tradesmen. A lot of young, qualified lads head off abroad. But if there was a better incentive for them to stay put, maybe it would alleviate the pressure on the housing situation, and also help rejuvenate local rural areas?
Give them a guaranteed salary, with additional bonuses for projects completed etc. A ladder rated salary-payment-scheme based on experience and projects delivered.
Maybe pie-in the-sky thinking, others involved directly in the construction industry would obviously have better dieas than the likes of me." This was in the labour party election manifesto.
We used to have this through the corporations (county council).
It was a travesty to get rid of it. Council properties were built and maintained to extremely high standards, building communities and offering proper affordable housing.
The 90s ruined us.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3975 - 15/10/2025 17:41:11
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Replying To Doylerwex: "It's from the department of social protection and no, direct provision is a separate department." That's not good. Is that because they are finding it hard to find work because they are foreign, just started looking for work out of IPAS, or are long term unemployed?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17234 - 15/10/2025 18:37:53
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Replying To Doylerwex: "The work ethic thing is a whole other debate. I employ a lot of Gen Z kids will college degrees. They feel totally let down and don't recognize a real opportunity for upward social mobility.
Can't afford a home, can't afford health insurance, can't afford kids, they're hopeless so why would they work hard when they don't see any reward?
Hardworking mam and dad are partly responsible for destroying the economy and saddling them with debt before they were able to walk." You should invest in the world's tiniest violin so they can take turns with it on their break. Might improve workplace morale. Everyone's different but initiative has been replaced by apathy and laziness with many of today's graduates. I know lads and ladies working and who worked full time plus overtime and part time second jobs and studying part time, getting deposits together instead of playing with their phone between feeling sorry for themselves going to and from the gym, living at home, in debt paying for cars they don't need, bought to impress their mates.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8286 - 15/10/2025 18:50:33
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