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Jes ye are an awful bunch of karens on here in fairness for what I assume are grown men mostly,
NATO kept pushing in on Russia's doorstep breaking previous agreements and the conflict in Ukraine was the result of it, happened over a long timeframe,
as Putin said the cause of the conflict has to be dealt with, same as in the our own six counties.
I'm no massive Trump fan but I think it must be clear to anyone who isn't biased that he just wants the killing to end, he wants to be a peacemaker in this world, that is no bad thing is it?
I don't think the Russians are trying to retake eastern Europe, I think they were forced to act in Ukraine by NATO, not many will agree with me but that doesn't make what I'm saying untrue.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3417 - 17/08/2025 00:31:49    2632188

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Replying To jm25:  "With respect both wars did start on someone else's watch and not a whole pile done.

democrats were running a man for president clearly not acting with his full facilities.

I can't see much been different in Israel regardless who was in charge they just seem to have free reign over everything"
Biden was willing to keep America's word, to finance, supply & come to Ukraine's defence in a much greater extent, in return for Ukraine having given up their nukes as was agreed decades ago.
Trump has no "word" whatsoever.
Agreed about the Democrats making an absolute mess of their candidate choices for years, it goes back to Obama supporting Hillary, that should have been Bidens first term, then Hillary or Biden again in 2020.
Their mismanagement led to a fool getting elected, now their policy seems to be, let him wreck the country, both economically & in reputation and sure we'll sit back & say "we told ye so" and come in to pick up the pieces in a few years. Hopefully there's something left to repair.

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 172 - 17/08/2025 01:23:30    2632197

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Good post. The greatest tragedy of all is that too many Americans can't see what is really happening to them and to their standing on the world stage. They just take what they like from everything he tells them. The old fable of the Emperors Clothes comes to mind."
I think you misunderstand your average American. America throughout its history was always fairly isolationist. It was only after the 2nd World War that that changed. Pearl Harbour etc. Since the Wall came down they have been edging back to their status quo.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 17/08/2025 07:33:08    2632204

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Jes ye are an awful bunch of karens on here in fairness for what I assume are grown men mostly,
NATO kept pushing in on Russia's doorstep breaking previous agreements and the conflict in Ukraine was the result of it, happened over a long timeframe,
as Putin said the cause of the conflict has to be dealt with, same as in the our own six counties.
I'm no massive Trump fan but I think it must be clear to anyone who isn't biased that he just wants the killing to end, he wants to be a peacemaker in this world, that is no bad thing is it?
I don't think the Russians are trying to retake eastern Europe, I think they were forced to act in Ukraine by NATO, not many will agree with me but that doesn't make what I'm saying untrue."
So what, Russia will withdraw from Ukraine under what circumstances? You're very naive. Have you ever been to Russia or Eastern Europe?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11744 - 17/08/2025 10:33:14    2632217

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think you misunderstand your average American. America throughout its history was always fairly isolationist. It was only after the 2nd World War that that changed. Pearl Harbour etc. Since the Wall came down they have been edging back to their status quo."
You're 100% right. However America chooses isolation when is suits and chooses intervention in other countries for decades (Russia been doing it too).

I've a cousin who served in Vietnam. He's very old but visited when you get a number of times. He's totally disillusioned with American foreign policy. Big business in war. "Our country went downhill when Kennedy was taken out" his words.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11744 - 17/08/2025 10:39:08    2632218

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Replying To yew_tree:  "You're 100% right. However America chooses isolation when is suits and chooses intervention in other countries for decades (Russia been doing it too).

I've a cousin who served in Vietnam. He's very old but visited when you get a number of times. He's totally disillusioned with American foreign policy. Big business in war. "Our country went downhill when Kennedy was taken out" his words."
Intervention only really became American policy during the Cold War. Before that it wasn't a thing with them.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 17/08/2025 11:20:07    2632226

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Jes ye are an awful bunch of karens on here in fairness for what I assume are grown men mostly,
NATO kept pushing in on Russia's doorstep breaking previous agreements and the conflict in Ukraine was the result of it, happened over a long timeframe,
as Putin said the cause of the conflict has to be dealt with, same as in the our own six counties.
I'm no massive Trump fan but I think it must be clear to anyone who isn't biased that he just wants the killing to end, he wants to be a peacemaker in this world, that is no bad thing is it?
I don't think the Russians are trying to retake eastern Europe, I think they were forced to act in Ukraine by NATO, not many will agree with me but that doesn't make what I'm saying untrue."
Russia has been an empire in some guise or another for many hundreds of years. It's part of their psyche. Ukraine was one of their earliest conquests, a bit like Ireland was one of Britain's. Only Ukraine was more important economically to Russia than Ireland was to Britain.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 17/08/2025 11:30:10    2632230

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Jes ye are an awful bunch of karens on here in fairness for what I assume are grown men mostly,
NATO kept pushing in on Russia's doorstep breaking previous agreements and the conflict in Ukraine was the result of it, happened over a long timeframe,
as Putin said the cause of the conflict has to be dealt with, same as in the our own six counties.
I'm no massive Trump fan but I think it must be clear to anyone who isn't biased that he just wants the killing to end, he wants to be a peacemaker in this world, that is no bad thing is it?
I don't think the Russians are trying to retake eastern Europe, I think they were forced to act in Ukraine by NATO, not many will agree with me but that doesn't make what I'm saying untrue."
I agree he seems to want peace. American Late Night host Bill Maher even said that Trump seems to really hate war. I don't understand why so many are against that stance.

TheClareKid (Clare) - Posts: 8 - 17/08/2025 13:13:57    2632243

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Jes ye are an awful bunch of karens on here in fairness for what I assume are grown men mostly,
NATO kept pushing in on Russia's doorstep breaking previous agreements and the conflict in Ukraine was the result of it, happened over a long timeframe,
as Putin said the cause of the conflict has to be dealt with, same as in the our own six counties.
I'm no massive Trump fan but I think it must be clear to anyone who isn't biased that he just wants the killing to end, he wants to be a peacemaker in this world, that is no bad thing is it?
I don't think the Russians are trying to retake eastern Europe, I think they were forced to act in Ukraine by NATO, not many will agree with me but that doesn't make what I'm saying untrue."
While I agree NATO shouldn't have poked the bear, I don't believe Putin is being honest. If NATO threat was the only reason for the invasion then they should be able to hand over the occupied territory for a guarantee of Ukraine never to join NATO. But Putin wants a land grab, he doesn't even believe in Ukrainian identity or sovereignty.

FullOfPorter (Roscommon) - Posts: 318 - 17/08/2025 13:19:03    2632245

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Replying To Viking66:  "Russia has been an empire in some guise or another for many hundreds of years. It's part of their psyche. Ukraine was one of their earliest conquests, a bit like Ireland was one of Britain's. Only Ukraine was more important economically to Russia than Ireland was to Britain."
English and then British occupation of Ireland was never really about economics , as we had little or no resources. It was mainly geopolitical, in that Ireland was the potential launching pad that Britain could be invaded through by its enemies. They viewed holding Ireland as essential to their own security. Even up until recent times, that is why the British military and security agencies did not want complete withdrawl from the island. Good book called the Geopolitics of ANglo-Irish Relations in the 20th Century by an ex-British military fella.

FullOfPorter (Roscommon) - Posts: 318 - 17/08/2025 13:28:04    2632246

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Replying To TheClareKid:  "I did scroll back and it's pretty evident that some here see no good at all in Mr Trump and some see no bad at all in him. No middle ground at all or at least very little. Interesting."
Mr T seems to be a very polarising character, particularly in his own country, which isn't helped by his tenuous grasp on truth and reality. He is likely to change his mind at the drop of a hat. And, no amount of stonewalling or excusing his antics or actions can explain the extraordinary influence and hold over him that Putin wields. None in his fanzone even try to explain or excuse that. They just ignore it. Compare that circus on Friday to the way that Vance, abetted by Mr T , tore into Zelensky a few months back in the White House. A humiliation and nothing else. Putin gets his ass licked ?? Amazing.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1816 - 17/08/2025 14:05:25    2632250

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Replying To Viking66:  "Intervention only really became American policy during the Cold War. Before that it wasn't a thing with them."
They were involved long before that. In post Colonial times, in Chile, Mexico, Korea, Honduras, Panama, Philippines all before WW2.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11744 - 17/08/2025 14:45:36    2632255

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Mr T seems to be a very polarising character, particularly in his own country, which isn't helped by his tenuous grasp on truth and reality. He is likely to change his mind at the drop of a hat. And, no amount of stonewalling or excusing his antics or actions can explain the extraordinary influence and hold over him that Putin wields. None in his fanzone even try to explain or excuse that. They just ignore it. Compare that circus on Friday to the way that Vance, abetted by Mr T , tore into Zelensky a few months back in the White House. A humiliation and nothing else. Putin gets his ass licked ?? Amazing."
Mr Trump met with Mr Putin and now will meet with Mr Zelensky and Mr Trump even invited European Leaders to this upcoming meeting. He bombed Iran which is Putins ally so I don't get this perception of Trump favoring Putin. Yes Trump put Zelensky in his place during that news conference but maybe Zelensky asked for it. I look forward to this upcoming meeting. Just end these wars is all I ask.

TheClareKid (Clare) - Posts: 8 - 17/08/2025 14:54:55    2632257

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Replying To TheClareKid:  "Mr Trump met with Mr Putin and now will meet with Mr Zelensky and Mr Trump even invited European Leaders to this upcoming meeting. He bombed Iran which is Putins ally so I don't get this perception of Trump favoring Putin. Yes Trump put Zelensky in his place during that news conference but maybe Zelensky asked for it. I look forward to this upcoming meeting. Just end these wars is all I ask."
Would you be saying just end the war if it was Ireland that was invaded? We had a civil war here because dev and co couldn't accept a treaty. We are in no position to tell Ukraine to put up with it with what went on here up until recently.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11744 - 17/08/2025 15:52:34    2632265

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Replying To yew_tree:  "They were involved long before that. In post Colonial times, in Chile, Mexico, Korea, Honduras, Panama, Philippines all before WW2."
They were not involved in Korea pre WW2. It was a Japanese colony from the the early 20th Century until the end of WW2. Trust me it's a country I know an awful lot about, being as my mother is from there.
The Philippines were an interesting aberration for the Americans in that they bought the islands from the Spanish around the turn of the 20th Century. Think they were granted Independence at the end of WW2. There were always Philipinos in America since before the USA was formed, well for hundreds of years at least, and Texas was originally going to be called the new Philippines. Even now the USA is more popular in the Philippines amongst the general public there than it probably is in any other country in the world.
The other countries you name are all neighbours, and would be of interest to even the most isolationist of Americans therefore.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 17/08/2025 16:09:39    2632267

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Would you be saying just end the war if it was Ireland that was invaded? We had a civil war here because dev and co couldn't accept a treaty. We are in no position to tell Ukraine to put up with it with what went on here up until recently."
I'm not saying that at all. I'd like to see zero wars in the World. Settle things diplomatically if at all possible. War should be scorned at by the rest of the World. Was it the Beatles that said Give Peace a Chance? That's my stance.

TheClareKid (Clare) - Posts: 8 - 17/08/2025 16:21:04    2632270

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Replying To TheClareKid:  "I'm not saying that at all. I'd like to see zero wars in the World. Settle things diplomatically if at all possible. War should be scorned at by the rest of the World. Was it the Beatles that said Give Peace a Chance? That's my stance."
Not the stance of people like Putin unfortunately who invade other countries and kill their people.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2592 - 17/08/2025 16:54:08    2632271

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Replying To TheClareKid:  "Mr Trump met with Mr Putin and now will meet with Mr Zelensky and Mr Trump even invited European Leaders to this upcoming meeting. He bombed Iran which is Putins ally so I don't get this perception of Trump favoring Putin. Yes Trump put Zelensky in his place during that news conference but maybe Zelensky asked for it. I look forward to this upcoming meeting. Just end these wars is all I ask."
Firstly, let me explain that I am a bit of a slow learner. Now, with that said, could you please explain a few things to me. Why did Mr T publicly say at a post summit press conference with Putin that he believed Putin and his secret service over his own intelligence service.? Zelensky is leading his countries heroic struggle against one of the worlds superpowers , so please explain how or why did Mr Trump and Vance feel the need to put Zelensky " in his place". What or where do you believe his "place" is ?? Why is Mr T so subservient to Putin? What happened to the 50day ultimatum, turned 10 day ultimatum that he threatened Russia with if they didn't agree to a ceasefire ?? How did Putin talk him out of that ?? If you can give me an objective answers to these points, I would be most grateful. I have a few more, but let's get your clarification on these first.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1816 - 17/08/2025 17:22:23    2632273

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Replying To TheClareKid:  "I'm not saying that at all. I'd like to see zero wars in the World. Settle things diplomatically if at all possible. War should be scorned at by the rest of the World. Was it the Beatles that said Give Peace a Chance? That's my stance."
We'd all like to see zero wars except the people who make money from them.
Giving aggressors what they want to achieve zero wars has been proven time and again over the whole course of human history just to lead to more invasions and wars.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16863 - 17/08/2025 17:30:54    2632274

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Firstly, let me explain that I am a bit of a slow learner. Now, with that said, could you please explain a few things to me. Why did Mr T publicly say at a post summit press conference with Putin that he believed Putin and his secret service over his own intelligence service.? Zelensky is leading his countries heroic struggle against one of the worlds superpowers , so please explain how or why did Mr Trump and Vance feel the need to put Zelensky " in his place". What or where do you believe his "place" is ?? Why is Mr T so subservient to Putin? What happened to the 50day ultimatum, turned 10 day ultimatum that he threatened Russia with if they didn't agree to a ceasefire ?? How did Putin talk him out of that ?? If you can give me an objective answers to these points, I would be most grateful. I have a few more, but let's get your clarification on these first."
With all due respect do you think I was sitting in on the meeting between the two leaders? I imagine there's a lot of give and take or negotiation in these things. Subservient to Mr Putin? If that's what you call bombing his ally in Iran but that doesn't seem logical. Mr Zelensky to my understanding was complaining of the stoppage or lack of funding from the USA once Mr Trump took over from Mr Biden. I believe that's why Mr Trump and Mr Vance snapped at him. I don't know any more than you know about these only speculation on my part. I just want the wars to stop and will leave the semantics to others.

TheClareKid (Clare) - Posts: 8 - 17/08/2025 17:41:14    2632278

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