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Replying To crafty:  "Ireland is one of the best countries in the world to live in. We are the 3rd safest country to live in after Denmark and Iceland. I have seen life in the UK, Australia and the US and I would much prefer to live in Ireland. Of course we have some problems but so do all countries."
You're wasting your breath. The default position is moan and whinge.
Then you have a lad who wants us to be like Albania....

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1709 - 03/06/2024 13:36:14    2549163

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Naive??

You're responding to someone who thinks Ireland would be better off out of the EU. You're not the naive one!"
I think the EEC was great for us. Free trade is great.

I think we made a mistake with Lisbon. It was never intended to be a legislative union.

Norway of course have the best of both worlds.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2947 - 03/06/2024 13:38:27    2549166

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Replying To crafty:  "Ireland is one of the best countries in the world to live in. We are the 3rd safest country to live in after Denmark and Iceland. I have seen life in the UK, Australia and the US and I would much prefer to live in Ireland. Of course we have some problems but so do all countries."
Why are so many people emigrating?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1873 - 03/06/2024 13:55:18    2549174

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Naive??

You're responding to someone who thinks Ireland would be better off out of the EU. You're not the naive one!"
We are talking about Communism not the EU. Only oddballs think they are related :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 03/06/2024 14:15:53    2549179

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "That's nonsense. They are both prosperous democracies.

There are around the same number of American troops in Germany as there are in South Korea. Is Germany a "garrison"?

Would you prefer had the west allowed the Chinese reds and Stalin to overrun both countries? US has no role in running any of the countries mentioned. We, on the other hand, are partly occupied by Britain and take 70% of out legislation from Brussels."
Where did you get the 70% from?

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1828 - 03/06/2024 16:23:29    2549211

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I think the EEC was great for us. Free trade is great.

I think we made a mistake with Lisbon. It was never intended to be a legislative union.

Norway of course have the best of both worlds."
And about a swimming pool worth of oil per citizen.

We're playing the cards we've been dealt and we've pulled a pretty incredible trump card with FDI.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5082 - 03/06/2024 17:09:17    2549228

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Replying To zinny:  "Where did you get the 70% from?"
Google is your friend, Look it up. I no longer do tutorials.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 03/06/2024 17:28:08    2549230

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Why are so many people emigrating?"
We are net immigration country. 64k left last year compared to 140k immigrants. There are definitely economic emigrants who have to leave Ireland but the majority are students or young professionals who want to see the World. I agree with Crafty, Ireland definitely has its faults that we all know about, but every country has. Far away hills are not always greener.

county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1116 - 03/06/2024 17:47:08    2549235

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Replying To county man:  "We are net immigration country. 64k left last year compared to 140k immigrants. There are definitely economic emigrants who have to leave Ireland but the majority are students or young professionals who want to see the World. I agree with Crafty, Ireland definitely has its faults that we all know about, but every country has. Far away hills are not always greener."
The majority o those who leave are 19 - 34 and are educated, many in work and many who cannot afford even so to buy a house of find one at a reasonable rent.

The majority of immigrants are people claiming asylum, many of them who will be lifelong welfare dependents with claims on the state. Many of them will bring their families including old people who are also welfare dependents.

We are close to 25% of population born overseas. That will be a third before 2030 and heading for 50% by 2050.

That is an absurd situation for any state to find itself.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 03/06/2024 18:04:23    2549240

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The majority o those who leave are 19 - 34 and are educated, many in work and many who cannot afford even so to buy a house of find one at a reasonable rent.

The majority of immigrants are people claiming asylum, many of them who will be lifelong welfare dependents with claims on the state. Many of them will bring their families including old people who are also welfare dependents.

We are close to 25% of population born overseas. That will be a third before 2030 and heading for 50% by 2050.

That is an absurd situation for any state to find itself."
The majority of immigrants are actually Irish citizens returning to the country.

county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1116 - 03/06/2024 20:02:47    2549268

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The majority o those who leave are 19 - 34 and are educated, many in work and many who cannot afford even so to buy a house of find one at a reasonable rent.

The majority of immigrants are people claiming asylum, many of them who will be lifelong welfare dependents with claims on the state. Many of them will bring their families including old people who are also welfare dependents.

We are close to 25% of population born overseas. That will be a third before 2030 and heading for 50% by 2050.

That is an absurd situation for any state to find itself."
The majority of immigrants aren't people claiming asylum.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13038 - 03/06/2024 20:18:07    2549274

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Replying To county man:  "The majority of immigrants are actually Irish citizens returning to the country."
No they are not. Look at the CSO statistics. There are also more Irish people leaving than returning and most who return are in older age groups than those leaving.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 03/06/2024 21:14:17    2549280

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Replying To Viking66:  "The majority of immigrants aren't people claiming asylum."
They are indeed. Again, look at the statistics and tell me I am wrong. Over 100,000 asylum seekers in last two years compared to around 70,000 work permits.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 03/06/2024 21:16:16    2549281

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Replying To county man:  "The majority of immigrants are actually Irish citizens returning to the country."
How are these things calculated exactly,, when you say an Irish citizen returning, could that be a foreign national with Irish citizenship returning after visiting their own country of origin for a brief time,, to see family etc.?

You could well be right but looking at the profound ethnic changes taking place on this island I find it hard to believe.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1873 - 03/06/2024 21:50:35    2549293

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The majority o those who leave are 19 - 34 and are educated, many in work and many who cannot afford even so to buy a house of find one at a reasonable rent.

The majority of immigrants are people claiming asylum, many of them who will be lifelong welfare dependents with claims on the state. Many of them will bring their families including old people who are also welfare dependents.

We are close to 25% of population born overseas. That will be a third before 2030 and heading for 50% by 2050.

That is an absurd situation for any state to find itself."
Ironically by the time a united Ireland does come to pass,, our citizenry will probably be more divided than at any time in the republics history.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1873 - 03/06/2024 21:51:39    2549295

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "They are indeed. Again, look at the statistics and tell me I am wrong. Over 100,000 asylum seekers in last two years compared to around 70,000 work permits."
Your figures are including Ukrainians who are not in the normal asylum process and do not need work permits. Ukrainians are effectively treated like temporary EU citizens. Asylum seeker numbers are about 30,000 for the period you mention. It is misleading to include Ukrainians in one set of figures and then talk about work permits which are not inclusive of Ukrainians.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 972 - 04/06/2024 09:06:08    2549337

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Replying To MachaireConnacht:  "Your figures are including Ukrainians who are not in the normal asylum process and do not need work permits. Ukrainians are effectively treated like temporary EU citizens. Asylum seeker numbers are about 30,000 for the period you mention. It is misleading to include Ukrainians in one set of figures and then talk about work permits which are not inclusive of Ukrainians."
We do not have a "normal asylum process" for a start. Hence the current crisis.

Secondly, most Ukrainians will stay no matter happens over there. As for work permits, for every permit holder, there are potentially any number of family dependents.

Meanwhile, large numbers of the age cohort that is vital to maintaining Irish society even in terms of births is leaving in large and increasing numbers.

If you think that is a good thing, fair enough. I happen to think that it is not.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 04/06/2024 09:58:25    2549346

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "We do not have a "normal asylum process" for a start. Hence the current crisis.

Secondly, most Ukrainians will stay no matter happens over there. As for work permits, for every permit holder, there are potentially any number of family dependents.

Meanwhile, large numbers of the age cohort that is vital to maintaining Irish society even in terms of births is leaving in large and increasing numbers.

If you think that is a good thing, fair enough. I happen to think that it is not."
Dysfunctional, absolutely agree.

How do you know what so many Ukrainians are thinking? Have you ever taken the time to get to know any people of different nationality in the country?

Ireland's birth rate has been falling since the 60's bar a small recovery in the early 2000's. It is a trend with all so called developed countries and linked to people going further in education, becomng focussed on careers, marrying later and leading to less kids. Now add into the equation that it is very costly to have a big family in Ireland. How do you incentivise people to marry younger and have more kids? Look at the mess Japan is heading for. In 50 years time nearly half the population will be 65 or older.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 972 - 04/06/2024 11:49:53    2549370

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Replying To MachaireConnacht:  "Dysfunctional, absolutely agree.

How do you know what so many Ukrainians are thinking? Have you ever taken the time to get to know any people of different nationality in the country?

Ireland's birth rate has been falling since the 60's bar a small recovery in the early 2000's. It is a trend with all so called developed countries and linked to people going further in education, becomng focussed on careers, marrying later and leading to less kids. Now add into the equation that it is very costly to have a big family in Ireland. How do you incentivise people to marry younger and have more kids? Look at the mess Japan is heading for. In 50 years time nearly half the population will be 65 or older."
There have been several polls of Ukrainians indicating that trend of wishing to stay. Why would they go home? Especially when many are from parts of country that are nowhere near whatever war is going on.


As for the falling birth rate, there are ways to incentivise people to stay. Foremost of them being ensuring that people who work will be able to get an affordable place to stay.

The trend in births is certainly down and is a common theme in western countries but it is exacerbated here by tens of thousands of young people emigrating.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2929 - 04/06/2024 12:36:51    2549383

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Google is your friend, Look it up. I no longer do tutorials."
Yes and Google also feeds you information based on what you have used it to search in the past and if conspiracy theories are on your agenda then you will get them - it doesn't mean it's fact. The only reference I could find was back in 2009 when the anti Lisbon treaty groups claimed at 80% of the laws came from the EU - fact it was 29.9%.

So post a "fact" without ever having to substantiate it - very Vote Leave of you. Keeping good bedfellows with your thinking there. You clearly have no idea about the countries that you admire. The odd one out is Norway.
Three of the most xenophobic countries in Asia but that would suit you wouldn't it. One has never saw fit to admit to its war crimes and still remains one of the most disliked countries in Asia in those old enough to remember what they did. Another that is an island made up now almost entirely of colonisers who in the process treated the natives no better than any western colonisers. Another one that has the highest rate of suicide in the developed world - in the aged this is due to poverty and isolation, suicide is the single biggest cause if death in adolescents and if you ever spoke to someonewho lived there you woukd understand why. I am not sure if you have ever followed the business news out of any of these countries, they may have domestic companies however they have also had major issues with corruption, historic ties to dictatorships and are no better that any US company in the way they use their power to loby the government to protect their interests.

By the way while Norway is a great society and very welcoming of refugees and immigrants, while they push a environmentally friendly agenda 25% of their economy comes from oil.

I will grant you one thing the alternative was worse however the belief that communists were all the same led the the disaster that was Vietnam.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1828 - 04/06/2024 13:11:02    2549395

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