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Time For Someone In GAA Authority To Say STOP

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Lads, there's a few of ye at it now (I'm looking at ye Leinster and Ulster lads) so I'm going to put ye straight.
Connaught is a hotel in London.
We in the west of Ireland go by Connacht. Not only is it the proper name, but it's also phonetic (seriously, where does English get a "acht' sound out of "aught"?) and just makes more sense. So go on, try it. You might even like it.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 31/05/2022 14:26:56    2421396

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I get you royaldunne but there are clubs in every county who get beaten by 10 points in the same championship. In Wexford, results tend to be close but some years there are bad beatings. That said, I know the struggling senior team want to get up and test themselves against the best.
But they get their on merit and there is no point in a junior club dreaming of taking on the senior champions because it is delusional.
Water finds its level. No easy answers but its time people faced up to the fact that the "everybody competes for Sam" is just pure talk. 25 counties don't."
I would say the very essence of the GAA is that the Junior Club dreams of taking on the senior champions!!

Its that very dream that many clubs have fulfilled that keeps GAA clubs alive.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1349 - 31/05/2022 14:41:06    2421401

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Sure have a look at some other posts on this forum and we should be delighted to see Dublin as they "play football the way its meant to be played" and that ulster football (the only entertaining province at present bar Galway/Mayo/Roscommon at times in Connacht) , is pure muck that needs to be wiped out from GAA.

Highandmighty (Leitrim) - Posts: 54 - 31/05/2022 15:29:22    2421408

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Replying To brianb:  "I think you might be on to something there. In Kildare Naas pretty much won everything there was to win in the county last year. There is one big club in Naas where as the other bigger towns around have a couple of clubs. Our neighbors in Laois had Portlaiose winning the football championship year after year - when someone finally beat them it was Portarlington the second biggest town to do it rather than a smaller rural club putting in the hard graft. It seems fairly evident though - where ever there are more players playing there is a bigger pool to choose from and a better chance of success.

Is this transitioning to the county game as well though? I think yes and no. It certainly looks that way in Leinster but it doesn't really look that way in Ulster, Munster or Connaught. The lure of a Connaught title or an Ulster title is plenty to keep minds focused in other counties and is just about keeping the game alive at the moment.

In Leinster - I think theres a big "whats the point of all this" going on in most counties. Dublin have both been given so much and can also generate so much that they're streets ahead of everyone else in terms of preparation.

The change needed is for the GAA to take more control of the back room set-ups in all counties. Specify what back room support is and can be available to county teams. For example if Dublin can have a dietitian and personal meal plans for every player - every county should be given that. If Dublin can have a team of video analysts - every team should be given that.

We need to wake up and realise that the disparity in finance available to team preparation leads to a proportional disparity on the pitch."
Population is a big factor in all provinces at county and club levels.

Leinster - 1. Dublin 2. Kildare 3. Meath , both in terms of population and football ranking

Connacht - If you divide Galway population x 2 to take into account hurling the population is very similar to Mayo ( Galway / Mayo have same number of football clubs) and they both have about 2x of Roscommon population. These stats are mirrored in the number of Connacht titles 48,48,24. Sligo similar population to Ros so they are under achieving ( or maybe Ros overachieving) relatively speaking and Leitrim has the lowest population in the country.

Munster : All counties apart from Cork are between 100k and 200k . Hurling / Football makes it more difficult to analyse and draw any major trends.

Ulster: Ulster difficult to analyse too because of demographics, but apart from Down and Antrim ( both swelled by Belfast) , Derry , Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal are the most populous and successful. Monaghan buck the trend and Cavan/ Fermanagh battle hard despite low population levels.

Overall , the hypothesis that population plays a strong part in success is well supported by statistical data with a couple of outliers.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 842 - 31/05/2022 15:49:35    2421415

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Backroom teams......

Does every team in Leinster get a former minister for finance. :D"
:D Maybe they should. I'm sure Bertie would do it for the Dubs!

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 292 - 31/05/2022 16:47:40    2421434

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Replying To anotheralias:  "Population is a big factor in all provinces at county and club levels.

Leinster - 1. Dublin 2. Kildare 3. Meath , both in terms of population and football ranking

Connacht - If you divide Galway population x 2 to take into account hurling the population is very similar to Mayo ( Galway / Mayo have same number of football clubs) and they both have about 2x of Roscommon population. These stats are mirrored in the number of Connacht titles 48,48,24. Sligo similar population to Ros so they are under achieving ( or maybe Ros overachieving) relatively speaking and Leitrim has the lowest population in the country.

Munster : All counties apart from Cork are between 100k and 200k . Hurling / Football makes it more difficult to analyse and draw any major trends.

Ulster: Ulster difficult to analyse too because of demographics, but apart from Down and Antrim ( both swelled by Belfast) , Derry , Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal are the most populous and successful. Monaghan buck the trend and Cavan/ Fermanagh battle hard despite low population levels.

Overall , the hypothesis that population plays a strong part in success is well supported by statistical data with a couple of outliers."
Population is certainly a big driver and you do see that borne out in the championships - particularly playing population. As you said about Galway once you take the hurling areas out of Munster you're often left with Cork V Kerry. If its purely population driving success and success is all that matters then we can talk about splitting Dublin and amalgamating smaller counties. I don't think there's any apatite for that. I think you do see teams bucking the trend enough to show its not all that matters.

So what else matters? I would suggest Organization and Finance which are often very interlinked. For years I've been trying to figure out why the likes of Kildare and Meath can compete with Dublin at underage level but not translate this through to Senior level. I think a big part of this is finance.

When you see the tables showing the biggest spenders it correlates more than population against the table of success. The last figures I could find are from 2017 - Cork topping it as a Dual County.

1. Cork - €1,747,609
2. Dublin - €1,604,353
3. Mayo - €1,542,547
4. Galway - €1,295,639
5. Limerick - €1,148,631
6. Tipperary - €1,070,353
7. Kerry - €1,030,443
8. Donegal - €952,697
9. Wexford - €945,224
10. Waterford - €872,607
11. Roscommon - €866,333
12. Kildare - €756,093

If we want to maintain integrity of competition I suggest we start here - give every county the same resources; give every county the same investment in backroom staff.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 292 - 31/05/2022 17:15:11    2421441

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Replying To festinog:  "Lads, there's a few of ye at it now (I'm looking at ye Leinster and Ulster lads) so I'm going to put ye straight.
Connaught is a hotel in London.
We in the west of Ireland go by Connacht. Not only is it the proper name, but it's also phonetic (seriously, where does English get a "acht' sound out of "aught"?) and just makes more sense. So go on, try it. You might even like it."
Fair play but what about the Connaught telegraph in Mayo.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2017 - 31/05/2022 17:20:48    2421447

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Replying To brianb:  ":D Maybe they should. I'm sure Bertie would do it for the Dubs!"
He's already sorted us out with a home ground to be fair to him! :D

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/05/2022 17:22:50    2421448

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Replying To legendzxix:  "We travel for an All-Ireland final, away from the comfort of home advantage!
Kerry v Dublin in Thurles 2001, Dublin declined the option of a toss of a coin for home advantage."
2001 !! Jesus wept

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 31/05/2022 18:27:02    2421456

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Replying To festinog:  "Lads, there's a few of ye at it now (I'm looking at ye Leinster and Ulster lads) so I'm going to put ye straight.
Connaught is a hotel in London.
We in the west of Ireland go by Connacht. Not only is it the proper name, but it's also phonetic (seriously, where does English get a "acht' sound out of "aught"?) and just makes more sense. So go on, try it. You might even like it."
Brilliant festinog.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 31/05/2022 19:01:00    2421462

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Replying To Temple56:  "Since Donegal beat Dublin in the 2014 semi final Dublin have played five different Ulster teams 9 times in championship and the record is as follows.

Dublin 9 wins vs 0 wins Ulster teams

The average winning margin in these 9 games has been 8 points. Dublin would stream roll Ulster competition just like Leinster"
the thing is though that If Dublin or Kerry for that matter had to donit like Derry did this year and peak for Monaghan then peak for Tyrone and then peak again for Donegal and do that every year they may not be in such fine fettle by the time the all-ireland semi-final comes around. The very fact that no matter who you are in Ulster you cant be below your best on any given day or you could be beaten makes it difficult to sustain that level for 6 or 7 games in a row. Granted at the moment Dublin and Kerry are better than every county in Ulster come championship time but when they are not at 100% and dont have all their players fully fit and available and have to play 6 or 7 games in a row against div 1 teams (like they do in the league) then they tend to lose a few games. So it's all about preperation and being able to peak every year for either a provincial final ( when the likes of Cork , Meath and Kildare are in form , which hasn't been the case lately) or more than likely a quarter or semi-final. The Ulster teams don't have that luxury. Even Tyrone, Armagh or Donegal in their pomp could never come in to an Ulster preliminary or first round ill-prepared or leggy from too much training for fear of being ambushed by any opponent.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 31/05/2022 19:54:17    2421472

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Replying To brianb:  "Population is certainly a big driver and you do see that borne out in the championships - particularly playing population. As you said about Galway once you take the hurling areas out of Munster you're often left with Cork V Kerry. If its purely population driving success and success is all that matters then we can talk about splitting Dublin and amalgamating smaller counties. I don't think there's any apatite for that. I think you do see teams bucking the trend enough to show its not all that matters.

So what else matters? I would suggest Organization and Finance which are often very interlinked. For years I've been trying to figure out why the likes of Kildare and Meath can compete with Dublin at underage level but not translate this through to Senior level. I think a big part of this is finance.

When you see the tables showing the biggest spenders it correlates more than population against the table of success. The last figures I could find are from 2017 - Cork topping it as a Dual County.

1. Cork - €1,747,609
2. Dublin - €1,604,353
3. Mayo - €1,542,547
4. Galway - €1,295,639
5. Limerick - €1,148,631
6. Tipperary - €1,070,353
7. Kerry - €1,030,443
8. Donegal - €952,697
9. Wexford - €945,224
10. Waterford - €872,607
11. Roscommon - €866,333
12. Kildare - €756,093

If we want to maintain integrity of competition I suggest we start here - give every county the same resources; give every county the same investment in backroom staff."
It's up to the counties Boards to arrange their own funding for their adult teams. Have you a breakdown on who spends what on their footballers and hurlers? I'd say if you did Mayo footballers would be quite a long out in front of anyone else.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12027 - 01/06/2022 10:34:26    2421517

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Replying To TheUsername:  "He's already sorted us out with a home ground to be fair to him! :D"
Hopefully Charlie can do the same for us!

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 292 - 01/06/2022 11:16:48    2421534

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Fair play but what about the Connaught telegraph in Mayo."
It was founded in the early 19th century by one of the landed gentry, hence the title. It's the oldest (or one of the oldest) local papers in Ireland, hard to change the name at this point.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/old-and-radical-campaigning-newspaper-finds-a-new-home-1.43965

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 01/06/2022 12:39:03    2421552

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Replying To superbluedub:  "Yep agreed , lets take Dublin out of Croke Park and down to Killarney/Castlebar or anywhere
bring it on for sure ."
We're better in Croke Park than in Castlebar.

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 01/06/2022 12:56:03    2421553

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Every county should first get their house in order with the resources currently at their disposal. More resources can only be helpful if they are to be used effectively. Every county should have a plan and show that they are already exhausting their existing finances in the most productive way possible before demanding more.

AntrimJim (Antrim) - Posts: 39 - 01/06/2022 18:22:14    2421676

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Backroom teams......

Does every team in Leinster get a former minister for finance. :D"
In fairness when Bertie was minister for finance he directed state funds to develop Dublin GAA and got the GAA HQ to match the big amounts the state paid in.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1357 - 01/06/2022 21:58:02    2421706

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Replying To Viking66:  "It's up to the counties Boards to arrange their own funding for their adult teams. Have you a breakdown on who spends what on their footballers and hurlers? I'd say if you did Mayo footballers would be quite a long out in front of anyone else."
It is up to county boards to arrange their funding. That's my main point. It means that some counties are sponsored by major international insurance groups or global food conglomerates where as other are sponsored by local businesses. As you get bigger and more successful you get more money to keep it going. This on top of all the other advantages a big county might have.

In hurling one county improved success in part by uncovering a large sponsorship deal with a local sporting development agency allowing for the funding of performance psychologists, nutritionists, a 4 person video analysis unit alongside the expansion of their medical team with more physiotherapists and sports massage therapists.

In football some of the more successful teams have up to 28 members of their backroom team being paid to offer support to the players in every aspect of performance. If we want a fair competition surely this support should be available to every intercounty player?

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 292 - 02/06/2022 11:05:06    2421750

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Replying To brianb:  "It is up to county boards to arrange their funding. That's my main point. It means that some counties are sponsored by major international insurance groups or global food conglomerates where as other are sponsored by local businesses. As you get bigger and more successful you get more money to keep it going. This on top of all the other advantages a big county might have.

In hurling one county improved success in part by uncovering a large sponsorship deal with a local sporting development agency allowing for the funding of performance psychologists, nutritionists, a 4 person video analysis unit alongside the expansion of their medical team with more physiotherapists and sports massage therapists.

In football some of the more successful teams have up to 28 members of their backroom team being paid to offer support to the players in every aspect of performance. If we want a fair competition surely this support should be available to every intercounty player?"
In the general scheme of things we aren't a big county. No cities and no really big towns even. We aren't overly successful in hurling or football this Millennium either. A couple of Leinster finals at football and a couple of provincial titles in hurling. But we still fund our intercounty teams ourselves. Tbh if you produced a breakdown of the spend on the Kildare footballers instead of the combined figures you published earlier there would only be a handful of intercounty teams, hurling or football, that had more money spent on them in 2017. Presuming this is still the case, and coupled with the underage success Kildare have enjoyed over the last 10 years, it really does make you wonder why they are so uncompetitive. I'd say you would need to look for the answers to this question within the county Brianb.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12027 - 02/06/2022 15:32:38    2421815

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Replying To brianb:  "It is up to county boards to arrange their funding. That's my main point. It means that some counties are sponsored by major international insurance groups or global food conglomerates where as other are sponsored by local businesses. As you get bigger and more successful you get more money to keep it going. This on top of all the other advantages a big county might have.

In hurling one county improved success in part by uncovering a large sponsorship deal with a local sporting development agency allowing for the funding of performance psychologists, nutritionists, a 4 person video analysis unit alongside the expansion of their medical team with more physiotherapists and sports massage therapists.

In football some of the more successful teams have up to 28 members of their backroom team being paid to offer support to the players in every aspect of performance. If we want a fair competition surely this support should be available to every intercounty player?"
Within the counties who are splashing huge amounts of sponsorship on 25 person backroom teams, do you not think if that team is not delivering at the very least a provincial final or All Ireland semi final - that some of that budget should then be distributed down to developing the clubs in the county and therefore providing the youth a chance to develop to a higher standard?

AntrimJim (Antrim) - Posts: 39 - 02/06/2022 15:35:23    2421816

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