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A lot of waffle here in last 24 hours, first off Andy deserves respect for the effort he and coaching team have put in for last 6 years, i don't think anyone can disagree that he.overstayed and the past 18 months has been a nightmare for the most part. People should remember the progress made in years 1 to 3. There are some here rightly criticising the abuse directed at Andy but they spent plenty of time slaying MOD on here themselves. Plenty of time to scout out interested parties and whoever gets the job it is a 4/5 year task with realistic goals ( these don't include winning Leinster or All ireland titles). Get players and supporters interested in the Meath team again and get some identity back. For whats its worth MOR would be a great appointment, getting ex players in for the sake of it would not be a good idea, B Farrell/K Reilly/ Colm O Rourke would be a step backwards i feel. Whoever gets it we all Analyst (Meath) - Posts: 1467 - 07/06/2022 21:14:29 2423211 Link 17 |
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Would be an excellent move and use of our in-house experience to do this. Nearly makes too much sense.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 08/06/2022 10:44:57 2423283 Link 1 |
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That is a fair point regarding comparisons.
stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 224 - 08/06/2022 11:09:13 2423292 Link 1 |
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This is a very fair point, but I just don't understand why we aren't producing forwards to the quality of the likes of Kildare (Flynn, Hyland etc..) I still think there are forwards in the country that can offer more than we have. The days of the 5 foot 6 forward line of the likes of Eamonn Wallace, Joey Wallace, Brian McMahon, James Conlan etc.. are long are truly gone. Back in the late 2000s early 2010s, we might have been poor but we had quality forwards that were capable of producing and upsetting anyone on their day. We shocked Mayo in 2007, Tyrone in 2009, Dublin in 2010. All of those you names above were very very good forwards on their day. We haven't produced a dangerous forwards since Mickey Newman came through. How can that be the case? I know it's a completely different argument, but I would love to see some kind of regional country division set up type thing where we pool together some of the smaller clubs like at underage level - and have them playing at a higher level. I know a lot of them are intermediate or even Junior, but if you had a Meath Hill/Nobber/St Michael's or Castletown/Rathkenny/Syddan type thing and allow them to play in a regional championship against the likes of Ratoath - it gives a much better sense of seeing how players perform at a higher level whereas they normally might not get a look in. Maybe the talent is just not there, maybe other sports are sucking the talent out of GAA in Meath, but we've always produced good players - why has it suddenly just stopped now? hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 208 - 08/06/2022 11:52:37 2423303 Link 0 |
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This is a slightly unfair comparison i would say as O'Brien and Andy played a totally different brand of football. Now that might be a function of how good or bad both teams were but I'll try and be short with this. Eamonn always kept 2-3 up at all times - Andy was playing with 15 men behind the ball Eamonn's team played in the last days of man on man marking - The game has changed and sweepers and packed defences are commonplace now Eamonn had lads who could win their own ball and turn - with packed defences now any forward is generally 2 on 1 or 3 on 2. Our lads are small and unable to win primary possession, if they're even in a position to do so. I'm not sure how those guys Eamonn had would do playing that style against the teams of now with packed defences. We'll never know but its a slightly unfair comparison. The other thing to look at is the difference in size between those lads and most of our current forwards. MOD and Andy picked lads who small, nippy aren't great at winning ball but can run at players, but against the top top teams they're very easy to turn over and there's very little different on the bench to try and change the game up. Look at Cillian O'Sullivan on saturday, i think he was turned over 3-4 times in the first half (he's had a bad season unfortunately) alone. Against a Wicklow he'd easily go past lads but at higher levels he gets bottled up and at elite levels he barely gets a chance. Whomever is next in needs to work on a forward plan and try to avoid 15 men behind the ball. As i said yesterday the number of times Thomas O'Reilly had a ball on our 45 and no out ball and had to carry it forward. As the saying goes nothing travels quicker than a kicked ball so we need to be working on leaving 2-3 players up at all times, that's what the best teams do, it ties up at least 2-4 defenders who aren't pushing up the pitch. At times on Saturday Clare had all their players over midfield and we'd a bunch of guys marking space rather than being tight to guys. Dublin exploited this as you'd expect but Clare didn't punish it enough. That is another aspect that needs to be worked out is effective defending. Our lads blocked up area's but when the ball was moved quickly as it was by Dublin, scores are popped very easily. Guys have to be prepared to take a man, go with them and keep tight and not allow them space, otherwise 15 men behind the ball is redundant. I think whomever is next in needs to maybe cull some of the forwards as they're so alike they're easily interchanged but don't bring any kind of a different threat. Joey, Eamonn, Cillian, McMahon, O'Connor, Scully are pretty much the same player. 4 of those started on Saturday on Saturday and the other 2 replaced 2 of those starters. The forward line must have one guy who can win primary possession at the very least and bring guys into the game. O'Reilly and Costello were our biggest starting forwards on Saturday and were both playing deep so how can you play an out ball to anyone. Hope that makes a bit of sense, probably got a bit rambling. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 08/06/2022 12:01:56 2423306 Link 1 |
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Under Andy in year 2-3 we had good man marking and Lavin and McGill in particular were aggressive but that has changed and we have reverted to marking space which is a shame. The only point I would make on our forwards is we have some young ones. O Connor, walsh, Morris, Frayne, Costello are you delevoping so it will be for the next man to improve them. They all have good potential I think but the style of play leaves them without any structure play near goal. Thomas o Reilly is not old either, Jack Flynn another who could be deployed in forwards. I know I am probably alone in this but I would not judge them based on the style of play we have seen, I think if we asked Joe, Bray, cian ward to play in a blanket and hand pass the ball up the pitch it would not look much different. As your rightly said we played 4 utility forwards on Saturday who did a lot of tracking back but offered little this year the other way. Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 08/06/2022 12:25:36 2423314 Link 2 |
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100% agree with your regional argument, I think maybe junior clubs only would be allowed to compete in the senior champ as regional as intermediate teams in a region could be too strong compared to most senior teams. Or else have the regional comp be a separate championship instead of the Feis cup maybe. As for why we've stopped producing players. It's because producing players has become harder. We were way behind the curve re development squads and underage development. We've now caught up and are producing 17 years old as good as any over the last 5 years. However this is still similar to player development in the 90's. It's down to basic skill level, natural athletic ability and being first. We are still behind in development from 17-25 where tactical awareness, S&C to create brilliant athletes and further skill development. While we have been dire if we could figure out this continued development we'd be a long way to fixing our problems as the amount of players who have come into the seniors at 19-21 and have either stayed the same level or regressed has been disheartening and is the reason Menton and Keoghan are still by a long way our best and most consistent performers
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1464 - 08/06/2022 12:37:48 2423315 Link 5 |
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Some greats points there Joe and leitrim, well made ;) brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 08/06/2022 12:48:03 2423321 Link 1 |
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100% im saying that .....and im not saying that fixing this should be the sole responsibility of the County Manager ...but i am saying it cant be ignored and unfortunately, it has to be high on the mind on the next guy...or he is doomed to failure
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 385 - 08/06/2022 13:02:00 2423332 Link 1 |
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You play 15 behind the ball yet we cough up numerous goal chances for clare.it was same v dubs they didnt bother to go for them.new ideas needed now hes gone good luck to him.need manager with respected knowledgeable coaches selectors.on the amount of players that were used or brought in to panel.how does that compare to other counties armagh for instance.looking where they are is mindboggling to how we have gone back.Saturday was the final nail in our coffin despite blaming executive players where not happy with management over the last few years.that was plain to see.draw a line now and lets hope co board or whoever is picking new set up get it right.i dread grom rumours what will come but let hope that's all they are. Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 488 - 08/06/2022 21:10:36 2423472 Link 1 |
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What ever way you cut it up, talk about packed defenses, different styles etc. the overall standard of forward players available in Andy's time has not been nearly as high as in O'Brien's (or even Banty/ MOD's) time. In Andy's time Graham Reilly on his day could be very good (although he was inconsistent) but other than him we didn't have any other serious forward talent. Your right in saying we have had a lot of smaller forwards in recent years but that doesn't mean if your big you won't get a chance, over the years quiet a few bigger forwards have also been tried (eg. Costello, Tobin, Brian Sheridan etc.) and they also have not given us much extra scoring power. I would say the running style of play using smaller players which Andy used was in part because he felt we lacked scoring forwards. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1358 - 08/06/2022 21:46:02 2423479 Link 1 |
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Its all fell down so much since 2019 when we got promotion. Everything was bright then. Why has this happened ? glenny (Meath) - Posts: 1108 - 09/06/2022 08:32:11 2423488 Link 1 |
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I agree whole heartedly with your post. The other major difference i see in our team is just the general standard of players. I ask all posters here to think back to a senior club game in meath when any of our current county panel shot the lights out at club level and have to be double teamed by the opposition. This happens in most other counties but i cant think of any 1 player in the senior championship that needs this sort of attention. We just dont have the talent at the minute. Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 631 - 09/06/2022 11:18:42 2423547 Link 1 |
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Maybe we should reserve judgement on players for a while longer. It seemed players were constrained by fear too often with this management in the last couple of years. Andy did his best we know. A passionate Meath man who gave it everything. Maybe he tried too hard in some ways . Thanks for that Andy ! will be interesting to see how players respond to a new MANAGEMENT team. Coaching in all areas could be massively improved. Freshness in approach in itself should give a lift to begin with. Full thanks to the players also . They deserve the best we can offer from here ,and in return they will give us the best they can offer .Otherwise what's the point ?
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1227 - 09/06/2022 12:29:48 2423566 Link 19 |
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How is this downright falsehoods been allowed on a public forum. None of our players were afraid of management that is a lie. And has lead to the abuse and threats towards the mcentee family. Which are beneath contempt at this stage.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 09/06/2022 13:57:25 2423591 Link 0 |
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This is exactly it. I would not judge the younger lads who ended up coming into a management team that was losing impact and then all of the hassle around last year. I think there is a lot of talent in the panel that could be better used and hopefully the CB sees this and gets them the best available management team and coaching set up. Anything else and you may throw your hat at it.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 09/06/2022 13:57:54 2423592 Link 3 |
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Could be wrong RD but I read this as fear of losing the ball/defensive set up so didn't express themselves more so that actual fear of Andy.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 09/06/2022 14:32:52 2423606 Link 1 |
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look guys....im not going to be as emotional as Rd on this subject...and at the same time, im not running down RD here , as he is right about the fact that a few misplaced words or comments in the hands of a few idiots is terrible, and totally to be condemned But ....the players...in every situation of underperformance have to take a degree of responsibilty and that includs the Younger Im not judging as to whether Andy had or had not got the dressing room......i have a strong view on it...but i think other issues have overshadowed this one issue...what i do not think we can let go is taht very quickly, these "young lads" need to grow up & cop on. Even if we say some of the younger lads felt disenfranchised of Andy...what di they think of their Team leaders ? , of their opportunity...of their responsibility? I have to say...it must be a hell of an honour to be in the same dressing room as Keoghan, & Menton...if them MEN, could give it all....i dont see any excuses for anyone else not to have. No excuses no BS Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 385 - 09/06/2022 14:34:02 2423608 Link 1 |
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I suppose longwood I never saw players down tools on Andy I saw them fall back into a blanket and mark space, while I don't like it and makes it look like guys are standing around aimlessly, that's the shape that we were clearly playing which is my point. And I don't think any were disenfranchised with Andy as a person but maybe the style of game they were being asked to play.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 09/06/2022 14:54:07 2423612 Link 1 |
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nail on the head there Longwood. Whilst i felt Andy failed the players in a lot of the preparatory aspects in the last 2+ years and maybe stifled some players with the team's style of play the players need to be accountable for very basic mistakes on the pitch. Andy can't kick the ball for them and make on pitch decision for them to kick balls into area's where there's a sweeper. These players need to realise they're on a county panel and they can't make mistakes. What you might get away with in a club game in meath will be exposed at county level. As you rightly say what do they think of their leaders in Menton and Keoghan and why would they not try and follow that example. Both players have won nothing with Meath but every time they go out on the pitch they leave all of themselves out there. When they play for their clubs they are standout performers. How would that not inspire a young panel member to raise their standards. I think someone mentioned earlier at club games it's hard to know who the county players are and they're not wrong. A county panellist should be head and shoulders above the rest but we don't have that. Are we honestly that bereft of talented footballers that our county players can't stand out for their clubs. What troubles me most is that the lads from the 2012 minor team are still in a state of flux (Harnan, both McEntee's, Cillian) and in and out of the team and until that is resolved and they become serious contributors and lead the team forward then we're screwed. These lads are all 28 at least and need to show the leadership to the next group of 2017 minors (Costello, Harkin, Hickey, Morris) onwards but they need that group to drive them on too. Otherwise i fear we're on a rapid downward decent into irrelevance. Will those lads from 2017 really want to hold on and toil to bring Meath back to any kind of level's some of us remember. Or will they pack it up and move on with their lives. Then all the work at underage will be for nought as we'll have a young team with no leaders at all and young players coming into a rudderless set up with no one to set the tone and lead the way. But the players need to take a long hard look in the mirror now and decide what they want to do. We could get Gavin, McGuinness and Fitzmaurice as a ticket but if the players don't take some ownership and accountability for driving standards and outting in the really hard work thats needed, then we're well and truly screwed, brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 09/06/2022 15:11:58 2423619 Link 3 |