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Tailteann Cup 2022

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The provincial championships are still King. League ranking has just replaced the qualifiers. Next year, counties will have 7 games to improve their league ranking, at least 1 provincial knockout match and then the guarantee of 3 group games. The responsibility is on every county to improve their standing. Let's give the format a chance. The GAA openly admit tweaks can be made to rectify problems that come to light. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 20/06/2022 12:47:34 2426352 Link
Will it now be a case where the likes of Sligo, Leitrim, Westmeath etc (with the exception of a few like Cavan) will actually pay even less heed to the provincial championship and will instead have their eyes firmly fixed on winning Tailteann? What is the point in those teams playing Mayo or Dublin in first round of the provincial to get hammered and then enter a competitive tournament. Will you get a scenario where teams will either use the provincial game to trial a few lads or else not field a team to avoid a hammering and allow them to concentrate on the better competition for them? MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 784 - 20/06/2022 13:07:19 2426358 Link
Replying To MachaireConnacht: "Will it now be a case where the likes of Sligo, Leitrim, Westmeath etc (with the exception of a few like Cavan) will actually pay even less heed to the provincial championship and will instead have their eyes firmly fixed on winning Tailteann? What is the point in those teams playing Mayo or Dublin in first round of the provincial to get hammered and then enter a competitive tournament. Will you get a scenario where teams will either use the provincial game to trial a few lads or else not field a team to avoid a hammering and allow them to concentrate on the better competition for them?" Only 2 McDonagh teams get exposure against a higher level opponent. Tailteann teams can utilise coming up against a Dublin or a Mayo, to identify where improvements can be made. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 20/06/2022 13:23:13 2426366 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "I think it's the rule on provincial finalists and the Tailteann Cup winners qualifying. If we had a situation next year where the Tailteann Cup winner from 2022 and all provincial finalists come from outside Division 1 and 2, then they push into the main competition. It could conceivably mean that these 9 teams would push out the 2 Division 3 promoted sides, the 4 who remained in Division 2, the 2 relegated from Division 1, and potentially the losing Division 2 finalist. There is nothing in the rules protecting these teams. The rules only state that the guaranteed teams into it are the Tailteann Cup winner and the provincial finalists, then the next best based on League (if not already qualified). It will be 16 only next year, it won't go up like could have happened this season depending on provincial finals. This needs to be tidied up. Like it'll never happen like that, but it allows this as it is." So at the start of 2023 , by that logic, the only team absolutely 100% guaranteed to get to qualifiers will be the winner of the Westmeath v Cavan game. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 20/06/2022 13:57:42 2426378 Link
Replying To MachaireConnacht: "Will it now be a case where the likes of Sligo, Leitrim, Westmeath etc (with the exception of a few like Cavan) will actually pay even less heed to the provincial championship and will instead have their eyes firmly fixed on winning Tailteann? What is the point in those teams playing Mayo or Dublin in first round of the provincial to get hammered and then enter a competitive tournament. Will you get a scenario where teams will either use the provincial game to trial a few lads or else not field a team to avoid a hammering and allow them to concentrate on the better competition for them?" Yep. .we've been saying it for months. The big flaw in the 2 tier system is that it rewards league performance, not championship performance. A table of performances over the past 5 years of football championship would have Cavan in 6th place. Over the last 4 years, we'd be 7th, over the last decade we'd be 10th. Yet, because we use the league as a prep competition (which has seen us win Ulster), we are sent to the 2nd tier. Teams who haven't come remotely close to challenging in their provinces are rewarded for concentrating on League. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 20/06/2022 14:31:40 2426396 Link
Replying To anotheralias: "So at the start of 2023 , by that logic, the only team absolutely 100% guaranteed to get to qualifiers will be the winner of the Westmeath v Cavan game." Looks like it as of now. Which is a big mistake. Like pointed out above, if the All Ireland winner was outside of that scenario, they could miss out. They need to tighten the criteria. Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/06/2022 14:35:00 2426398 Link
Replying To anotheralias: "So at the start of 2023 , by that logic, the only team absolutely 100% guaranteed to get to qualifiers will be the winner of the Westmeath v Cavan game." Correct. If the Tailteann cup winners don't make provincial final, and the 8 prov finalists are all, say, division 3/4 teams (or mid div2) . . Then those 9 teams, plus the top 6 in Div 1, plus div 2 champions will be the top 16. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 20/06/2022 14:42:19 2426403 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "Correct. If the Tailteann cup winners don't make provincial final, and the 8 prov finalists are all, say, division 3/4 teams (or mid div2) . . Then those 9 teams, plus the top 6 in Div 1, plus div 2 champions will be the top 16." In the real world you're talking 3 at most from Ds3 and 4. Winners of Connacht semi involving 2 of Sligo/Leitrim/London . Winners of a Tipp/Waterford semi And winners of a Leinster semi. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1419 - 20/06/2022 15:03:26 2426410 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "Yep. .we've been saying it for months. The big flaw in the 2 tier system is that it rewards league performance, not championship performance. A table of performances over the past 5 years of football championship would have Cavan in 6th place. Over the last 4 years, we'd be 7th, over the last decade we'd be 10th. Yet, because we use the league as a prep competition (which has seen us win Ulster), we are sent to the 2nd tier. Teams who haven't come remotely close to challenging in their provinces are rewarded for concentrating on League." I've been saying exactly this for ages now... Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/06/2022 15:11:20 2426413 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "In the real world you're talking 3 at most from Ds3 and 4. Winners of Connacht semi involving 2 of Sligo/Leitrim/London . Winners of a Tipp/Waterford semi And winners of a Leinster semi." Oh of course, it's a highly highly unlikely scenario. But it does point out the flaw with linking the league standings to the championship. It would make much more sense to figure out a way to reward teams for championship performances. That would likely mean the end of the provincial tho, so it's unlikely to happen. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 20/06/2022 15:42:08 2426421 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The provincial championships are still King. League ranking has just replaced the qualifiers. Next year, counties will have 7 games to improve their league ranking, at least 1 provincial knockout match and then the guarantee of 3 group games. The responsibility is on every county to improve their standing. Let's give the format a chance. The GAA openly admit tweaks can be made to rectify problems that come to light." Having the league more important is a step in the right direction. The league is the best format the GAA have. Will need some small tweaking but at least its not as deeply flawed as proposal B was and for some strange reason a popular choice for loads in the media who are still harping on about it. Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3347 - 20/06/2022 16:03:54 2426430 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "I've been saying exactly this for ages now..." The league ranks teams fairly from 1 to 32. Cavan have underperformed in the league. Cavan must be sensible and attain their natural higher league ranking that awaits them. There are lower league county boards who want the Tailteann Cup to start as soon as possible after provincial knockout. The Tailteann Cup will probably start on the same weekend as provincial finals. There is an argument for only allow provincial winners qualify but that can only come in if the Tailteann starts after the provincial championships. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 20/06/2022 17:00:06 2426447 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The league ranks teams fairly from 1 to 32. Cavan have underperformed in the league. Cavan must be sensible and attain their natural higher league ranking that awaits them. There are lower league county boards who want the Tailteann Cup to start as soon as possible after provincial knockout. The Tailteann Cup will probably start on the same weekend as provincial finals. There is an argument for only allow provincial winners qualify but that can only come in if the Tailteann starts after the provincial championships." No it doesn't actually. 7 matches played in winter. And we base our summer on it, and not prior Championship results. What other championship in the country does that? There are simpler solutions that basing it solely on the winter secondary competition Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/06/2022 18:02:38 2426462 Link
Replying To Gaa_lover: "Having the league more important is a step in the right direction. The league is the best format the GAA have. Will need some small tweaking but at least its not as deeply flawed as proposal B was and for some strange reason a popular choice for loads in the media who are still harping on about it." How so? The League is our Secondary competition. Its played in winter months. It's meant to be used by teams to develop. And it's 7 games. Basing the layout of the Championship based on the League is head scratching, we don't do it anywhere else in the GAA. As the saying goes, Leagues are for playing, Championships are for winning. I like the League, but we're putting a huge risk to Championship. Let Championship decide championship, with relegation and promotion based on your previous years performance. That's literally how we do it up and down the country Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/06/2022 18:08:20 2426464 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The league ranks teams fairly from 1 to 32. Cavan have underperformed in the league. Cavan must be sensible and attain their natural higher league ranking that awaits them. There are lower league county boards who want the Tailteann Cup to start as soon as possible after provincial knockout. The Tailteann Cup will probably start on the same weekend as provincial finals. There is an argument for only allow provincial winners qualify but that can only come in if the Tailteann starts after the provincial championships." The Irish news reports today that the tv audience for the Tailteann cup swmi finals was higher than three of the provincial finals.Interesting! jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1456 - 21/06/2022 09:04:09 2426493 Link
Replying To jobber: "The Irish news reports today that the tv audience for the Tailteann cup swmi finals was higher than three of the provincial finals.Interesting!" Interesting indeed. I didn't see the viewing figures for the McDonagh final but it seemed a lot of people tuned in. Westmeath or Cavan will enter the Sam Maguire 16 next year with a higher profile due to Tailteann success. The respect of the nation awaits the winner. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 21/06/2022 09:42:32 2426495 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "How so? The League is our Secondary competition. Its played in winter months. It's meant to be used by teams to develop. And it's 7 games. Basing the layout of the Championship based on the League is head scratching, we don't do it anywhere else in the GAA. As the saying goes, Leagues are for playing, Championships are for winning. I like the League, but we're putting a huge risk to Championship. Let Championship decide championship, with relegation and promotion based on your previous years performance. That's literally how we do it up and down the country" The league hasn't been played during the winter in over 20 years. The only reason you're saying the league shouldn't have anything to do with the championship is because it effects Cavan at the moment. But of course you'll never admit that. oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 21/06/2022 09:52:48 2426500 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "How so? The League is our Secondary competition. Its played in winter months. It's meant to be used by teams to develop. And it's 7 games. Basing the layout of the Championship based on the League is head scratching, we don't do it anywhere else in the GAA. As the saying goes, Leagues are for playing, Championships are for winning. I like the League, but we're putting a huge risk to Championship. Let Championship decide championship, with relegation and promotion based on your previous years performance. That's literally how we do it up and down the country" The championship is based on the championship. If you get to your provincial final no matter where you perform in the league then you get into the all ireland series. If you win the tailteann cup regardless of where you finish in the league you get into the all ireland. So the first 9 places out of 16 are awarded based on championship performance. after that rating the teams on their league position is a much better assessment of relative position. how can you compare Armagh who were beaten in the first round of ulster by Donegal to Wexford who beat Offaly in leinster prelim but then lost to dublin.. Oh wait Armagh are in Div 1 Wex finished in the bottom half of Div 4. Some people just want to give out about everything. Maybe I'm the bigger fool for even engaging!! indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 21/06/2022 10:44:20 2426526 Link
Replying To oneoff: "The league hasn't been played during the winter in over 20 years. The only reason you're saying the league shouldn't have anything to do with the championship is because it effects Cavan at the moment. But of course you'll never admit that." Agreed. Most people will agree that Cavan's league ranking isn't a true reflection of where they are. Cavan are responsible for that. The league ranks teams 1 to 32. There is no need for a seeding over 5 years. Perform in the current league and earn your stripes. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 21/06/2022 11:03:39 2426536 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "No it doesn't actually. 7 matches played in winter. And we base our summer on it, and not prior Championship results. What other championship in the country does that? There are simpler solutions that basing it solely on the winter secondary competition" When was the last time Cavan competed during the summer months? The only ulster championship they have won in the last 25 years was won during the winter? Temple56 (Westmeath) - Posts: 386 - 21/06/2022 11:29:04 2426552 Link