National Forum

Tailteann Cup 2022

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To oneoff:  "Sorry I wasn't talking to you"
No need to keep saying sorry to me. I have graciously accepted your sincere apology. I hope you have a lovely weekend.

howdareu (USA) - Posts: 220 - 20/05/2022 12:37:22    2418916

Link

Replying To oneoff:  "Again your solutions don't actually address anything. All you want us teams to be moved up just for the sake of it. Again how does that actually help anything? You also want money to be thrown at these counties and that's going to be the answer to everything.

You're trying to claim that "weaker" counties are going to miss out on winning provisional titles etc with these changes. You try to claim these changes in the past made no difference to counties success they had after when it's not really the case. You and others claim they've had won them anyway with nothing to black it up. You claim Clare won the Munster championship on the back of qualifying for Munster finals at underage, ignoring the fact they were hammered in all of those finals."
Why don't they? They shouldn't just keep going with huge flaws. Again, I never said my suggestions are perfect. But I'm not the guy getting paid in the Association to administer the game, yet making a huge mess of it. The issues are there to see, better paid people (whose job it is) can solve them. They're my ideas, they don't have to do it that way exactly, but they need to at least fix what are the clear flaws.

I literally do back it up though. You, however, have not disproven what I've said. And I get your point on Clare (I did say there would be exceptions). But that was still 3 or 4 youth sides over the previous 8 or so years, and enough of them fed through. If it was one final with a bad beating, I'd agree. But reaching multiples finals while contesting a province with giants like Kerry and Cork (at that time) was a big deal, they still had to win games to get there. And they clearly got enough players off each of those teams through to make a decent Senior team for 92. 2 or 3 off each of those final reaching panel gives you the bulk of a team.

Like, how on earth can you literally ignore the evidence in front of you? Practically every major win has foundations in successful youth. Literally go and look. One example doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm actually laughing here at you. You think Clare 92 throws the youth point out the window?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/05/2022 12:43:52    2418919

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "I think there's a system to move up a level and stay there.

A team like Cavan could go from being in Sam Maguire 60% of years to 90% of years.

They're getting 3 group games and 2 of those against division 1 teams. If they're consistently a Sam Maguire level team they are probably getting to last 12 and quarterfinals on occasions. You're talking 5 competitive championship fixtures here.

You're right in saying there are 6 teams with a gap to the rest because they are playing division 1, you did excellent research on that but the Sam Maguire has a chance at widening that group because it is opening it up to a further 8 more teams than the National league. That's the big improvement and I'd say that the Sam Maguire being in the Summer and the primary competition should make it the most impactful competition for development."
Yeah indeed. It's why I think there needs to be a better link somehow between them. Cavan I feel will move up next year. this year being an aberration overall (we've shown to play at a higher level in Championship). And I'm not being parochial here, I'm not on about just my own county (really). It's the others below who really need more help. They'll be further cut off and won't get the chance to move up and improve. 3 distinct groups will separate out even more than now. The top few who can win, the middle ones who will vary from bottom of Tier 1 to top of Tier 2, and then the bottom ones who will be there continually.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/05/2022 12:53:17    2418928

Link

Replying To howdareu:  "No need to keep saying sorry to me. I have graciously accepted your sincere apology. I hope you have a lovely weekend."
There's no need to keep replying to me you know that right?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 20/05/2022 12:53:28    2418930

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Why don't they? They shouldn't just keep going with huge flaws. Again, I never said my suggestions are perfect. But I'm not the guy getting paid in the Association to administer the game, yet making a huge mess of it. The issues are there to see, better paid people (whose job it is) can solve them. They're my ideas, they don't have to do it that way exactly, but they need to at least fix what are the clear flaws.

I literally do back it up though. You, however, have not disproven what I've said. And I get your point on Clare (I did say there would be exceptions). But that was still 3 or 4 youth sides over the previous 8 or so years, and enough of them fed through. If it was one final with a bad beating, I'd agree. But reaching multiples finals while contesting a province with giants like Kerry and Cork (at that time) was a big deal, they still had to win games to get there. And they clearly got enough players off each of those teams through to make a decent Senior team for 92. 2 or 3 off each of those final reaching panel gives you the bulk of a team.

Like, how on earth can you literally ignore the evidence in front of you? Practically every major win has foundations in successful youth. Literally go and look. One example doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm actually laughing here at you. You think Clare 92 throws the youth point out the window?"
But anytime anyone tries to show you otherwise you've dismissed with by saying it's just an exception.

What you also choose to ignore about the Clare example is bar one year they avoided either Kerry or Cork before the final. Without saying this is exactly what you want. Bigger teams drawing each other and knocking each other out.

No one is saying that teams don't need to be strong at underage but you're again twisting this to suit your own agenda.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 20/05/2022 13:01:23    2418937

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "I'm really not that bothered. Like I'll go and it'll be good to win it, but you (yet again) miss the point. I know Cavan are better than this level as we've shown last 5 seasons. We're here as they drew the tiers on leagues, which we didn't concentrate on. This competition shouldn't be just about a team who drops to this level for a year or so. We know they'll be good enough. What about the 10 or so usual teams who will be down in this all the time? They're never winning this, but I know you'll ignore it again"
So now what do you for those teams? Should they just be left win it? The same why you want them put in a higher division in the league?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 20/05/2022 13:03:57    2418940

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "I'm really not that bothered. Like I'll go and it'll be good to win it, but you (yet again) miss the point. I know Cavan are better than this level as we've shown last 5 seasons. We're here as they drew the tiers on leagues, which we didn't concentrate on. This competition shouldn't be just about a team who drops to this level for a year or so. We know they'll be good enough. What about the 10 or so usual teams who will be down in this all the time? They're never winning this, but I know you'll ignore it again"
As I've said before, 12 counties are well capable of winning the Tailteann. Division 4 counties have extra incentive for progressing to Division 3. Division 3 counties have extra incentive for progressing to Division 2. The league can no longer be dismissed as only being the league.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 20/05/2022 13:12:13    2418946

Link

Replying To oneoff:  "There's no need to keep replying to me you know that right?"
And I can say the same to you. Have a phenomenal weekend.

howdareu (USA) - Posts: 220 - 20/05/2022 13:15:02    2418948

Link

Replying To howdareu:  "And I can say the same to you. Have a phenomenal weekend."
Sorry I wasn't talking to you.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 20/05/2022 13:44:15    2418955

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "As I've said before, 12 counties are well capable of winning the Tailteann. Division 4 counties have extra incentive for progressing to Division 3. Division 3 counties have extra incentive for progressing to Division 2. The league can no longer be dismissed as only being the league."
It is only the 'elite' teams who play in the partition cup that dismiss the league. Teams in this particular cup always treat the league seriously.

weatherfieldgael (UK) - Posts: 60 - 20/05/2022 13:46:24    2418958

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Still not great with still dividing it on geographic location and still linking it to League. Like it's better, no doubt, but still many major flaws. My concern is the bad layout this year could sink it before it really ever gets going"
I can side both sides of both of these arguments to be honest. I'd lean to your thinking on them but there are pros to the GAA's way of doing them.

Is next year's Tailteann group stage geographically split?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 20/05/2022 14:18:02    2418968

Link

Replying To oneoff:  "Sorry I wasn't talking to you."
Oh you were my learned friend. Look back and see that you were talking to me. I think you are a likkle bit confused as you did say that I did not need to keep replying to you so you were indeed talking to me! But anyway I think you may be rather cross as all of your points are being ripped to shreds by other more learned posters and that has made you sad.

However there is no need to be. Look on it as a learning opportunity.

Now I will not be addressing you on this issue any more as I feel I have exhausted all avenues with you but I genuinely wish you a nice, relaxing and peaceful weekend. Enjoy it and I hope you like it very much.

howdareu (USA) - Posts: 220 - 20/05/2022 14:22:50    2418972

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Yeah indeed. It's why I think there needs to be a better link somehow between them. Cavan I feel will move up next year. this year being an aberration overall (we've shown to play at a higher level in Championship). And I'm not being parochial here, I'm not on about just my own county (really). It's the others below who really need more help. They'll be further cut off and won't get the chance to move up and improve. 3 distinct groups will separate out even more than now. The top few who can win, the middle ones who will vary from bottom of Tier 1 to top of Tier 2, and then the bottom ones who will be there continually."
I mean I think there are very few teams that won't have serious aspirations of making the Sam Maguire 16.

Louth are in this years. There's very few teams looking up and thinking we can't achieve what Louth have achieved.

There's plenty of room with 16 teams for non traditional counties to be able to get up and establish themselves.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 20/05/2022 14:23:57    2418973

Link

Replying To howdareu:  "Oh you were my learned friend. Look back and see that you were talking to me. I think you are a likkle bit confused as you did say that I did not need to keep replying to you so you were indeed talking to me! But anyway I think you may be rather cross as all of your points are being ripped to shreds by other more learned posters and that has made you sad.

However there is no need to be. Look on it as a learning opportunity.

Now I will not be addressing you on this issue any more as I feel I have exhausted all avenues with you but I genuinely wish you a nice, relaxing and peaceful weekend. Enjoy it and I hope you like it very much."
Ripped to shreads by whom exactly? You is it? Or one of your other accounts?

I haven't seen you make a single point seeing as you're so much more "learned" then us mear mortals.

So why not tell us all your grand master plan? I get a feeling we'll be waiting for quite a long time for that however...

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 20/05/2022 14:43:57    2418987

Link

Replying To oneoff:  "But anytime anyone tries to show you otherwise you've dismissed with by saying it's just an exception.

What you also choose to ignore about the Clare example is bar one year they avoided either Kerry or Cork before the final. Without saying this is exactly what you want. Bigger teams drawing each other and knocking each other out.

No one is saying that teams don't need to be strong at underage but you're again twisting this to suit your own agenda."
Like the way you twisted to use one example of Clare? My thoughts stand up to scrutiny here, you're seemingly arguing because you can

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/05/2022 14:49:14    2418991

Link

Replying To oneoff:  "So now what do you for those teams? Should they just be left win it? The same why you want them put in a higher division in the league?"
Could you possible please go back and read my messages, instead of having me repeat the same things every page?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/05/2022 14:50:05    2418992

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "I can side both sides of both of these arguments to be honest. I'd lean to your thinking on them but there are pros to the GAA's way of doing them.

Is next year's Tailteann group stage geographically split?"
Yeah it's set to be. I see no basis for continuing that. If travel was such an issue, the Qualifiers would be split too. No need for it, it only pushed teams who already play each other regularly in their provinces back into the same fixtures. New fixtures are needed for this

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/05/2022 14:52:17    2418993

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "I mean I think there are very few teams that won't have serious aspirations of making the Sam Maguire 16.

Louth are in this years. There's very few teams looking up and thinking we can't achieve what Louth have achieved.

There's plenty of room with 16 teams for non traditional counties to be able to get up and establish themselves."
I do get you. But I also think Louth managed it well to get up this year, but will come back quickly. I can't see them surviving Division 2 next year. Then the rotation starts./ Teams may very well aspire for that, but it'll be the few who will consistently compete to get up.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 20/05/2022 14:55:37    2418994

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Like the way you twisted to use one example of Clare? My thoughts stand up to scrutiny here, you're seemingly arguing because you can"
You're the one who's claiming them winning in 92 was based on them making underage finals are you not? You're also ignoring the fact they avoided Kerry and Cork to get to those finals.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 20/05/2022 15:11:26    2419005

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Could you possible please go back and read my messages, instead of having me repeat the same things every page?"
Again you don't say anything to to sort this out other than putting them in a higher division just for the sake of it. Then refuse to answer how this is supposed to be the answer to everything.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 20/05/2022 15:13:16    2419006

Link