|
Replying To foreveryoung: ""I can't see why Clare and Galway players have been let off on a technicality- I wonder if it will affect their game knowing they shouldn't be there."
If anything it should only affect their game positively. That they got away with clear offences, will only embolden them more and make them more stubborn and brazen. And the realization that it was a game they 'almost' missed and that they 'almost' let their teammates down, should spur them on to even greater deeds, just like the a man being reprieved from the gallows.
I can see Duggan being man of the match even; bagging a hatrick of goals. And Hayes will hold ROC, like a vice-grip." A vice grip is a type of "holding" tool, Hayes is qualified on the "striking" tools.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 374 - 16/06/2022 15:16:35
2425428
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "I said to a couple of Wexicans who were discussing this in our club last night, my very words were "there is a 0% chance of those lads not lining out on Saturday, it might be Friday night before they are cleared but they will be".
What does this say of the GAA's disciplinary system? Is it now open season and do what you like once you don't get caught? I did things on the field in the late 80's and 90's in Dublin club hurling which I was not proud of. But if I had been sent off, I wouldn't have been looking to appeal, or get off on a technicality.
The real issue here is, the GAA WANT a Limerick/Clare All-Ireland final and are terrified that somebody might deny them that. You can bet your bottom dollar, if that was Lee Chin or Rory O'Connor in the dock, or anybody not from one of the "protected status" counties, neither would have got off." "The real issue here is the GAA want a Limerick/Clare All Ireland Final"
Will ye stop for god sake, utter rubbish.
GAA disciplinary system has been a joke for years for all counties.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1328 - 16/06/2022 15:54:14
2425437
Link
1
|
|
Replying To twbm: "Of course they do. Munster teams in general are treated differently.
Do you really think a Wexford, Offaly etc player would've gotten off? Fahy's suspension had to be over turned because the 2 Clare lads was.
Do you think they'd fix a Munster final for 7 o clock on a Saturday eve?? No chance..
Practically all of the Leinster championship of televised via sky !!
I'm very happy Clare have a full strength team out and I hope TK is fully fit too but there I'd def a major bias towards Munster teams." Thanks twbm, every point there was what I would have responded.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 16/06/2022 16:03:19
2425443
Link
1
|
|
Replying To StoreysTash: "So would you support the use of a TMO during the game?
Do you actually think any of these 3 players, regardless of whether it was real time or retrospective, deserve to start this weekend?
And lastly, if I came out of Coppers and threw a punch at somebody and it was on CCTV, that the Gardai shouldn't use it? There is no difference between the 2." If a inter county GAA player did it, the CCTV footage would be ridiculed, or be accused on trial by TV...
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 16/06/2022 16:04:14
2425444
Link
0
|
|
Replying To StoreysTash: "So would you support the use of a TMO during the game?
Do you actually think any of these 3 players, regardless of whether it was real time or retrospective, deserve to start this weekend?
And lastly, if I came out of Coppers and threw a punch at somebody and it was on CCTV, that the Gardai shouldn't use it? There is no difference between the 2." Let me ask you a question. If Wexford are beaten by a point and a replay shows that a Clare goal never crossed the line their whole team deserves to play in the semi-final ? Wexford would for sure be out of the championship. It is selective use of t.v. review and do we want to be fair and review every minute of every game to see what was missed. There is a big difference with your Coppers comparison. Number one hopefully we are looking for criminal activity on our fields of play and secondary a fixed camera while its resolution may not be perfect but its accuracy is much superior to a travelling man operated one.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 16/06/2022 16:04:52
2425445
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tiobraid: "No major surprise that the bans were overturned. Bans rarely have been served for years. Did hayes/Duggan deserve a ban more than Flanagan deserved one after last years Munster final (certainly wasnt career ending belts...)? Less likely to cause major or career ending injuries...both deserved bans but rarely happens. Even from a club perspective I've seen our own club benefit from quashed or reduced bans. I dont see how there should be an appeal process for incidents like the two Clare ones. If someone gets sent off and there was an obvious error from the referee then that should be the only grounds for appeal. How can you quash bans that were reviewed after - whats left to review? Should also be very clear guidelines on trial from tv. Are all games reviewed after - if thats not possible then none should be.
You'd have to have a lot of respect for Mullane who refused to let Waterford appeal his ban. Galway most definitely should have accepted Fahys ban...and the player should have stood up and said he wasnt appealing. A real cowardly act that he clearly has taken no responsibility for." Flanagan was given a yellow card in the munster final. Therfore the CCCC don't review incidents where the referee has seen it and dealt with it. A lot of posters seem to not understand that incidents thar aren't in the refs report are only eligible for retrospective bans.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1125 - 16/06/2022 16:11:20
2425448
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Canuck: "Let me ask you a question. If Wexford are beaten by a point and a replay shows that a Clare goal never crossed the line their whole team deserves to play in the semi-final ? Wexford would for sure be out of the championship. It is selective use of t.v. review and do we want to be fair and review every minute of every game to see what was missed. There is a big difference with your Coppers comparison. Number one hopefully we are looking for criminal activity on our fields of play and secondary a fixed camera while its resolution may not be perfect but its accuracy is much superior to a travelling man operated one." I'd imagine there's many instances of video footage being used to get sending offs overturned. The opposite was done in this case. If serious foul play is missed during a match idohave no issue with it being pointed out afterwards. It works well in rugby
HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 470 - 16/06/2022 16:15:49
2425454
Link
0
|
|
Replying To foreveryoung: ""I can't see why Clare and Galway players have been let off on a technicality- I wonder if it will affect their game knowing they shouldn't be there."
If anything it should only affect their game positively. That they got away with clear offences, will only embolden them more and make them more stubborn and brazen. And the realization that it was a game they 'almost' missed and that they 'almost' let their teammates down, should spur them on to even greater deeds, just like the a man being reprieved from the gallows.
I can see Duggan being man of the match even; bagging a hatrick of goals. And Hayes will hold ROC, like a vice-grip." Neither Rory has been playing as well as both can the last few days out. Will be an interesting match up.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 16/06/2022 16:18:37
2425456
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tiobraid: "Cant see Hayes holding Rory O'C. Hes too lose and likes hurling ball too much. O'Connor will score heavily if he can get enough ball in to him. I'd have Flanagan on him...he has really impressed this year. Does anyone know why he took so long to make the step up? Had he serious injuries?" Not sure. Many people in Clare still didn't rate him halfway through this season. I think he's been their standout CB their last few games.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 16/06/2022 16:20:35
2425458
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "I said to a couple of Wexicans who were discussing this in our club last night, my very words were "there is a 0% chance of those lads not lining out on Saturday, it might be Friday night before they are cleared but they will be".
What does this say of the GAA's disciplinary system? Is it now open season and do what you like once you don't get caught? I did things on the field in the late 80's and 90's in Dublin club hurling which I was not proud of. But if I had been sent off, I wouldn't have been looking to appeal, or get off on a technicality.
The real issue here is, the GAA WANT a Limerick/Clare All-Ireland final and are terrified that somebody might deny them that. You can bet your bottom dollar, if that was Lee Chin or Rory O'Connor in the dock, or anybody not from one of the "protected status" counties, neither would have got off." I am saying this against the grain of most peoples opinion of the referring last Sunday but it also has to be said. As I watched the first ten minutes of the game I said to myself someone is going to see red in this game, what the ref was allowing at that time had nothing to do with tough hard hurling but was just just hitting players and tackling like you would on a rugby pitch. At that point in time there seemed no limit to what he would allow. I can remember a player coming flying in with a shoulder to hit another and had he not moved he would have been laid flat. Fortunately the players found their own way to calm themselves down however we all have played with and against players who unless they are kept in check from the start will go over that line all too easy. If you see the ref letting go what he did when its in front of him, what's the difference with doing some of it off the ball. If teams see that ref down to referee one of their next games what do you think would be in the minds of the players before they go out and what message would the manager be giving them? The disciplinary process starts on the field of play. The referee has a huge role in setting the tone of what players believe they will get away with and the message was clear from the start - that was a lot.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 16/06/2022 16:27:38
2425463
Link
2
|
|
Replying To StoreysTash: "So would you support the use of a TMO during the game?
Do you actually think any of these 3 players, regardless of whether it was real time or retrospective, deserve to start this weekend?
And lastly, if I came out of Coppers and threw a punch at somebody and it was on CCTV, that the Gardai shouldn't use it? There is no difference between the 2." So you want prison time now along with suspensions? hahahahaha
LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2476 - 16/06/2022 16:29:24
2425464
Link
0
|
|
Who is the fourth team playing this weekend......anyone hear?
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 374 - 16/06/2022 16:32:16
2425466
Link
0
|
|
Replying To WEX98: "Who is the fourth team playing this weekend......anyone hear?" The lads who have their own forum!!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 16/06/2022 17:24:24
2425483
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tiobraid: "Cant see Hayes holding Rory O'C. Hes too lose and likes hurling ball too much. O'Connor will score heavily if he can get enough ball in to him. I'd have Flanagan on him...he has really impressed this year. Does anyone know why he took so long to make the step up? Had he serious injuries?" Been around the panel for a while, was going well in 2016 but got ruled out of championship due to concussion and got injured in 2018 before championship started.
He's a top player, very calm on the ball and very good at reading the game. Fairplay to him for sticking at it.
Dec82andahalf (Clare) - Posts: 34 - 16/06/2022 18:00:45
2425496
Link
0
|
|
Replying To zinny: "I am saying this against the grain of most peoples opinion of the referring last Sunday but it also has to be said. As I watched the first ten minutes of the game I said to myself someone is going to see red in this game, what the ref was allowing at that time had nothing to do with tough hard hurling but was just just hitting players and tackling like you would on a rugby pitch. At that point in time there seemed no limit to what he would allow. I can remember a player coming flying in with a shoulder to hit another and had he not moved he would have been laid flat. Fortunately the players found their own way to calm themselves down however we all have played with and against players who unless they are kept in check from the start will go over that line all too easy. If you see the ref letting go what he did when its in front of him, what's the difference with doing some of it off the ball. If teams see that ref down to referee one of their next games what do you think would be in the minds of the players before they go out and what message would the manager be giving them? The disciplinary process starts on the field of play. The referee has a huge role in setting the tone of what players believe they will get away with and the message was clear from the start - that was a lot." As you said It starts on the field but ends on the field except you have proper systems that belong to the association to review it. Unfortunately certain things will go unpunished but selectively lessers will be. The use of t.v. coverage can add to that disparity and also some wrongful discipline. The t.v. camera will not lie if a player blatantly pulls on player off the ball. The t.v. camera can be seriously wrong when a player pulling or blocking hits his opponent or miss times a tackle. The slowed down version shows that he had all the time in the world avoid and thus decided intent.
I am not sure how many follow the NHL. The t.v. cameras will look like a puck crossed the line from its angle or a player was head hunting. Especially when slowed down. The NHL camera will show the complete puck did not cross the line or the injured player turned or ducked after the hit was initiated. They are not prepared to give control of discipline to the t.v. as they learned of its inaccuracies. You will hear the commentators saying the NHL have angles we don't. Sometimes they will share their footage with the t.v. but not always as they don't feel obliged to do so and keeps the commentators in their place.
I am not suggesting that the GAA can have stationery camera every where but just be aware of the short comings of t.v. replays.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 16/06/2022 18:01:44
2425497
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "The lads who have their own forum!!" What's the password?
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 374 - 16/06/2022 18:38:19
2425501
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tiobraid: "No major surprise that the bans were overturned. Bans rarely have been served for years. Did hayes/Duggan deserve a ban more than Flanagan deserved one after last years Munster final (certainly wasnt career ending belts...)? Less likely to cause major or career ending injuries...both deserved bans but rarely happens. Even from a club perspective I've seen our own club benefit from quashed or reduced bans. I dont see how there should be an appeal process for incidents like the two Clare ones. If someone gets sent off and there was an obvious error from the referee then that should be the only grounds for appeal. How can you quash bans that were reviewed after - whats left to review? Should also be very clear guidelines on trial from tv. Are all games reviewed after - if thats not possible then none should be.
You'd have to have a lot of respect for Mullane who refused to let Waterford appeal his ban. Galway most definitely should have accepted Fahys ban...and the player should have stood up and said he wasnt appealing. A real cowardly act that he clearly has taken no responsibility for." Flanagan got booked last year so that meant the ref dealt with it and that's the end of it. Are you suggesting that Flanagans tackle somehow was the reason for Mahers retirement, Paudie spent 12 years ducking into tackles and whipping his head around to get a handy free, maybe that's what happened him.
updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 16/06/2022 18:46:18
2425505
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tiobraid: "Why? Not sure if you follow soccer but should the Europe league finalists get into the latter stages of the CL? I can see the reasons for it but when you think about it, its a crazy system. Should the Tailteann cup winners get into the latter stages of the All Ireland series and avoid the grueling qualifier route? Its ridiculous." I don't watch soccer tbh apart from the odd game where skill gets the better of negativity. I agree that it's a crazy system but looking at the system as is now, it's unfair on any team to have to play a knockout a week after winning a final.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1785 - 16/06/2022 18:49:38
2425506
Link
0
|
|
Replying To zinny: "I am saying this against the grain of most peoples opinion of the referring last Sunday but it also has to be said. As I watched the first ten minutes of the game I said to myself someone is going to see red in this game, what the ref was allowing at that time had nothing to do with tough hard hurling but was just just hitting players and tackling like you would on a rugby pitch. At that point in time there seemed no limit to what he would allow. I can remember a player coming flying in with a shoulder to hit another and had he not moved he would have been laid flat. Fortunately the players found their own way to calm themselves down however we all have played with and against players who unless they are kept in check from the start will go over that line all too easy. If you see the ref letting go what he did when its in front of him, what's the difference with doing some of it off the ball. If teams see that ref down to referee one of their next games what do you think would be in the minds of the players before they go out and what message would the manager be giving them? The disciplinary process starts on the field of play. The referee has a huge role in setting the tone of what players believe they will get away with and the message was clear from the start - that was a lot." I agree with you regarding the refereeing in the Munster final.
I fully understand that spectators and tv armchair viewers.loved the physical and as has been said ...the on the edge stuff... it definitely gets us all going !!!!
And I also think that the ref was going against the grain of what has been allowed by referees in the championship to date.
I think he took a huge chance and was dependent on players managing their own aggression as the game unfolded.
Unfortunately players find it difficult to fully control themselves when such a liberal application of the rules is being applied by a referee.
The fact that 3 players were handed an initial ban and have successfully appealed them, shows that the operational GAA has seen things differently and insisted that breaches of illdiscipline should be called out.
The recent preoccupation of insinuating that the RTE Sunday Game panellists are responsible for the 3 players being cited shows that the GAA has a lot to do to get its message across.
All in the GAA have a responsibility to call out behaviour that is unacceptable and goes outside what is acceptable.
The means with which this is done needs to be fair and seen to be so.
What would be wrong with a 5 person group who view each game on a Sunday night and contact the ref to view the incidents he may have missed so that his match report is then ready for sending the following morning.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1820 - 16/06/2022 19:54:38
2425510
Link
0
|
|
Replying To HurlingBuzz: "I'd imagine there's many instances of video footage being used to get sending offs overturned. The opposite was done in this case. If serious foul play is missed during a match idohave no issue with it being pointed out afterwards. It works well in rugby" Yes I agree but many also refused in spite of video footage. I know of one for sure that the video that was inclusive to prove either way but the suspension stood. In that example the Wexford player admitted that his strap was open and DeBurca got caught in him while going by. DeBurca who had no track record doing it. Is that right ?
I would ask you a question. In your opinion when the ball is getting thrown in at the start of the game and a player at the other end of the field stands out from his opponent and lashes him across the legs. A player goes in during play and pulls a little wild. Which is the most serious foul. I know what one is most likely to get sent off.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 16/06/2022 21:22:43
2425516
Link
0
|