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Replying To Viking66: "You are playing in the Leinster championship by invite Baire. If you don't like it you can always go back to the Connacht championship." Thanks Viking, you're most generous and understanding!
By invite you say!
Who sent this invite? Why was it sent in 2008?
BTW it took ye a long time to send it, 124 years to be exact!
Is the Leinster Championship a misnomer?
Lets look at the number of counties, in each province, playing hurling at the highest level.
Connacht historically: 1 out of 5 (20%)
Leinster: 3 out of 12 (25%)
Munster: 5 out 6 (83%)
Ulster: 1 out of 9 (11%)
Munster is the only province where one can say that the championship truly reflects its name.
There was a period in Leinster, before Galway got that generous invitation, when it was practically 2 out of 12.
Any objective observer would have to admit that 'The Leinster Championship' is a misnomer and should be changed to a more inclusive system with parity of esteem at its core. The present system gives the Leinster Council a privilege and a voice to which it is not entitled. And that is the same voice of privilege that comes from Viking Wexford!
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 08/07/2022 17:05:39
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Replying To baire: "Galway are a team from Connacht that now plays in what is called the Leinster championship. The Galway hurlers are proud Connacht men as are Antrim proud Ulster men. To be fair to Galway and Antrim the name should be changed but I wouldn't hold my breath! I don't recall ever seeing a Connacht ref reffing a game in which Galway played." It'd be quite a tall order to get a Connacht ref to ref a game in which Galway hurlers are playing. At the moment you've only four refs from Connacht on the championship panel: L Gordon (Galway), S Hynes (Galway), B Keon (Galway), J Judge (Mayo).
Obviously, the first 3 are ruled out. That leaves a choice of one. I don't know much about Judge as a ref, but it seems that he hasn't the experience for McCarthy Cup championship.
Since the other 4 counties in Connacht aren't top hurling counties and are more renowned for their focus on football (which is also incidentally true of Galway; more of a footballing county, but top level hurling, too), it is difficult to expect these counties to be producing top level hurling referees.
On any given day, CP can only appoint what's available.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2294 - 08/07/2022 18:52:54
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Replying To baire: "Thanks Viking, you're most generous and understanding!
By invite you say!
Who sent this invite? Why was it sent in 2008?
BTW it took ye a long time to send it, 124 years to be exact!
Is the Leinster Championship a misnomer?
Lets look at the number of counties, in each province, playing hurling at the highest level.
Connacht historically: 1 out of 5 (20%)
Leinster: 3 out of 12 (25%)
Munster: 5 out 6 (83%)
Ulster: 1 out of 9 (11%)
Munster is the only province where one can say that the championship truly reflects its name.
There was a period in Leinster, before Galway got that generous invitation, when it was practically 2 out of 12.
Any objective observer would have to admit that 'The Leinster Championship' is a misnomer and should be changed to a more inclusive system with parity of esteem at its core. The present system gives the Leinster Council a privilege and a voice to which it is not entitled. And that is the same voice of privilege that comes from Viking Wexford!" As hurling county Galway has achieved way above expectations given their historical situation. I also believe that the provincial system is not the best one to establish national champions. Never was and never will be. If the Munster and Leinster championship are so good and important then they should have no bother standing on their own merit. No one is losing any sleep that there is not a meaningful Connaught or low interest Ulster championship. Its kind of hypocrisy don't you think ? Or maybe f you jack I'm alright.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3088 - 08/07/2022 19:54:22
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Quaid
Finn Casey Nash
Byrnes Dec Dan
DoD WoD
Hego Cian Hayes Tom
Gillane Flanagan
I think lynch starts in a busy HF line exposing that kk HB line. I see hego and Tom dropping to midfield to help the lads out as our HB line will drop again. Kk will flood midfield so we need to act. Galway clare and Tipp have all gotten rewards by 2 floaters in midfield. Mullen needs to be watched possibly by WoD
I don't see hayes going back and have said that since the start of championship. He's finally comfortable on the 40 and defensively we are very solid so changing personnel at 3 and 7 would be way too disruptive. The main areas for prep are the middle third on kk puck outs and I think we let them have it short and flood the running ability of Mullen and Billy Ryan.
I watched the match back and my initial thoughts when at the match that cian was struggling movement wise might have been a bit reactionary. He definitely covered a lot more ground than I had initially thought and went full tilt a few times esp under the hogan stand after Tom monaghan. I think kiely trusts in the plan for the last 3 months to have him ready for this match. He's a game changer and I'd start him.
It will be interesting to see what kk do match ups wise. Who will lawlor/butler take? Where will TJ start. Will kk go long as I think Limerick will drop off them..
It's the final I had expected and will be mouth watering.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 08/07/2022 22:02:32
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Replying To baire: "Thanks Viking, you're most generous and understanding!
By invite you say!
Who sent this invite? Why was it sent in 2008?
BTW it took ye a long time to send it, 124 years to be exact!
Is the Leinster Championship a misnomer?
Lets look at the number of counties, in each province, playing hurling at the highest level.
Connacht historically: 1 out of 5 (20%)
Leinster: 3 out of 12 (25%)
Munster: 5 out 6 (83%)
Ulster: 1 out of 9 (11%)
Munster is the only province where one can say that the championship truly reflects its name.
There was a period in Leinster, before Galway got that generous invitation, when it was practically 2 out of 12.
Any objective observer would have to admit that 'The Leinster Championship' is a misnomer and should be changed to a more inclusive system with parity of esteem at its core. The present system gives the Leinster Council a privilege and a voice to which it is not entitled. And that is the same voice of privilege that comes from Viking Wexford!" Some of us that are actually living in Leinster like the Leinster championship and like the name it's always had. Young lads around here grow up dreaming of winning one, and have done for 140 odd years. Just because the same can't be said of young Galway lads why should it be renamed? Privilege is #### all to do with it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16161 - 09/07/2022 07:54:03
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Baire, just a few points. You were missing Gearoid McInernerey and we were missing Peter Casey and Cian Lynch. You contend that the ref was givinhg all these soft calls to limerick. If he was how come we got 1 free in the first twenty minutes of the game at a time when Hegarty, Tom Morrissey and Gullane seemed to be pulled and dragged, all over the place as balls rained down on the Galway Backline. I myself and several Limerick were incensed at our forwards failure to get a single free. Kyle Hayes was also wrongly penalised f over carrying the ball, when he should have got a free in. I saw the rerun of the match last night and I now that he favoured neither side, that he could called for frees on both sided, and that generally the frees he gave on all sides were frees. I thought he got most call OK, What about some supporters panicking, I for one was reasonably calm once I saw those High balls being pumped into our square. I never would suggest our backs are impenetrable, but all the goals that were got again them last year and this except Concannon, were by the dent of slick passing of the ball, as opposed to coming from dropping balls coming directly into the Square. The sight of Connor Whelan, a player I have hugely respected for years, going for a point, when a goal chance was on, was also reassuring.
I know all about management making mistakes, we have seen plenty mistakes made by Limerick managements over the years.
But for all that Baire, I always think the best team wins and as Eamon Cregan and John Kiely said in the examples I gave, you just have to get back on the horse. Galway have plenty emerging talent to be the new Limerick in the next few years." Limericks current team is backboned by the 2015 and 2017 u21 AI winning teams. Galway don't have as many players coming through who are as good that group. No county has at the moment. Probably Cork are closest to having it but then the gap to u20 seems like more than a year more than the gap to the old u21.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16161 - 09/07/2022 08:17:11
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Replying To baire: "Thanks Viking, you're most generous and understanding!
By invite you say!
Who sent this invite? Why was it sent in 2008?
BTW it took ye a long time to send it, 124 years to be exact!
Is the Leinster Championship a misnomer?
Lets look at the number of counties, in each province, playing hurling at the highest level.
Connacht historically: 1 out of 5 (20%)
Leinster: 3 out of 12 (25%)
Munster: 5 out 6 (83%)
Ulster: 1 out of 9 (11%)
Munster is the only province where one can say that the championship truly reflects its name.
There was a period in Leinster, before Galway got that generous invitation, when it was practically 2 out of 12.
Any objective observer would have to admit that 'The Leinster Championship' is a misnomer and should be changed to a more inclusive system with parity of esteem at its core. The present system gives the Leinster Council a privilege and a voice to which it is not entitled. And that is the same voice of privilege that comes from Viking Wexford!" Maybe a better way of putting it is this Baire. Imagine there are a half dozen people sharing a house. Theyve lived together for many years. They have a house next door which also has been occupied by its same residents for many years. The house is not perfect but by and large they are all happy with its fixtures and fittings and its name.
Then an extra room becomes available so they take in a new resident, a guy who lived by himself in a derelict house across the street . After only a short while this resident wants to change the house and change its name. Then he decides that actually both occupied houses should be knocked down altogether and a new one built, even though the most of the lads who have lived in the 2 houses for many years are happy with their accommodation.
Do you not think that would annoy the lads who have lived there a long time?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16161 - 09/07/2022 08:28:46
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Replying To baire: "Thanks Viking, you're most generous and understanding!
By invite you say!
Who sent this invite? Why was it sent in 2008?
BTW it took ye a long time to send it, 124 years to be exact!
Is the Leinster Championship a misnomer?
Lets look at the number of counties, in each province, playing hurling at the highest level.
Connacht historically: 1 out of 5 (20%)
Leinster: 3 out of 12 (25%)
Munster: 5 out 6 (83%)
Ulster: 1 out of 9 (11%)
Munster is the only province where one can say that the championship truly reflects its name.
There was a period in Leinster, before Galway got that generous invitation, when it was practically 2 out of 12.
Any objective observer would have to admit that 'The Leinster Championship' is a misnomer and should be changed to a more inclusive system with parity of esteem at its core. The present system gives the Leinster Council a privilege and a voice to which it is not entitled. And that is the same voice of privilege that comes from Viking Wexford!" And as for the stats I'm not sure Longdord ever even entered it. And Wicklow and Louth haven't fielded a team in it for years. 5 counties have won it and 1 more has reached a final. 5 Leinster counties have won the AI hurling title, so historically they must have been playing hurling at the highest level. So I don't know how you can say only 3 did.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16161 - 09/07/2022 08:43:23
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Replying To tommy k: "I would agree Baire - Galway as outsiders to Munster / Leinster have always being playing against 16 men with more often than not biased referees especially those from Munster but a good few from Leinster also going back at least to Denton in the 1989 AI semifinal v Tipp and of course not forgetting O'Connor in the 2001 AI final v Tipp. The only fair referees in these scenarios would be those from Ulster - we probably would have had a different result the last day if that was the case." Hold on Tommy. Ye blame the referee for 2001, but who left Mark O'Leary, who was seldom heard of before or after, score two goals and a point that day. And of course ye were the only crowd who were ever treated unfairly treated by a Munster referee. What about Sheehy, who was up in arms two years ago because Johnny Murphy 'favoured' Galway against Tipp. So much for all this Munster solidarity. Note the inverted commas on 'favoured'. Sheehy was suggesting that Limerick were afraid to meet Tipp. It was a load of nonsense as we would rather meet Tipp than Galway at any time over that past few years.
Lets go back to 2001, firstly, Tipp won every match they played that year, except for the draw with Wexford, so give them some credit- (you have no idea how much having to make that statement takes out of me. The idea that all of us Munster Hurling men wants the other Munster side to win every game against Galway is so ridiculous it does not bare thinking about)). Secondly, without going over all the details again, Cork, Waterford, Cale Limerick (twice) and Wexford could all feel they were screwed by bad refereeing decisions that year, but 'tis twenty one years ago and they all seem to have moved on. Maybe 'tis time Galway did the same.
Finally in'44, '45, '49, '66, '71 (2),'96 and 2001 my home county had goals disallowed in games they lost by a goal or less, in each time to the eventual All Ireland Champions, except in '01. However we probably had the chances to win all those games but did not take them, but 'tis much easier to blame the ref. There is no good to be had from crying over spilt milk and the results will never be changed now any way. This idea that all these poor decisions are or were made against Limerick or Galway, because refs went out to be against either of us, is a load of nonsense and both our sides probably had the chances to win those matches and did not take them. The fact is that is that over the last eighty odd years both our teams have under performed on the big day, except for the '80s Galway team and out current side.
Best of luck to Galway in future
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4501 - 09/07/2022 08:46:26
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Replying To baire: "Thanks Viking, you're most generous and understanding!
By invite you say!
Who sent this invite? Why was it sent in 2008?
BTW it took ye a long time to send it, 124 years to be exact!
Is the Leinster Championship a misnomer?
Lets look at the number of counties, in each province, playing hurling at the highest level.
Connacht historically: 1 out of 5 (20%)
Leinster: 3 out of 12 (25%)
Munster: 5 out 6 (83%)
Ulster: 1 out of 9 (11%)
Munster is the only province where one can say that the championship truly reflects its name.
There was a period in Leinster, before Galway got that generous invitation, when it was practically 2 out of 12.
Any objective observer would have to admit that 'The Leinster Championship' is a misnomer and should be changed to a more inclusive system with parity of esteem at its core. The present system gives the Leinster Council a privilege and a voice to which it is not entitled. And that is the same voice of privilege that comes from Viking Wexford!" Ye were welcomed into Munster, and at all levels back in '59, and were beginning to get moving there when ye upped sticks and left ten years later. Baire, I honestly think that was a bad move from a Galway Hurling viewpoint and ye would have ended winning more since if ye had stayed put that time. The modern day revival in Galway Hurling, I feel, dates back to that stint in Munster. A few years they won '72 Under 21 title and seemed to progress from there.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4501 - 09/07/2022 09:03:12
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Replying To baire: "Galway are a team from Connacht that now plays in what is called the Leinster championship. The Galway hurlers are proud Connacht men as are Antrim proud Ulster men. To be fair to Galway and Antrim the name should be changed but I wouldn't hold my breath! I don't recall ever seeing a Connacht ref reffing a game in which Galway played." Only one example of a man reffing an All Ireland Final in which his own county was involved. That was 1910. Michael Cross, a Limerick man, who reffed seven Finals in all, refereed LK v WX, the score in favour of Wexford, was seven goals to 6.2. Cross disallowed three Limerick goals and one Wexford one. I don't think, Baire, we ever want one of our own in charge of a Final in which we are involved again.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4501 - 09/07/2022 09:14:04
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Replying To Canuck: "As hurling county Galway has achieved way above expectations given their historical situation. I also believe that the provincial system is not the best one to establish national champions. Never was and never will be. If the Munster and Leinster championship are so good and important then they should have no bother standing on their own merit. No one is losing any sleep that there is not a meaningful Connaught or low interest Ulster championship. Its kind of hypocrisy don't you think ? Or maybe f you jack I'm alright." I agree, it should never have been based on a provincial system. The present system is an improvement on the previous one but taking club, league and championship into consideration it's still a poor system.
It's not working in the football either. Munster could always play a separate knockout competition in the hurling.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 09/07/2022 09:27:00
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Baire, just a few points. You were missing Gearoid McInernerey and we were missing Peter Casey and Cian Lynch. You contend that the ref was givinhg all these soft calls to limerick. If he was how come we got 1 free in the first twenty minutes of the game at a time when Hegarty, Tom Morrissey and Gullane seemed to be pulled and dragged, all over the place as balls rained down on the Galway Backline. I myself and several Limerick were incensed at our forwards failure to get a single free. Kyle Hayes was also wrongly penalised f over carrying the ball, when he should have got a free in. I saw the rerun of the match last night and I now that he favoured neither side, that he could called for frees on both sided, and that generally the frees he gave on all sides were frees. I thought he got most call OK, What about some supporters panicking, I for one was reasonably calm once I saw those High balls being pumped into our square. I never would suggest our backs are impenetrable, but all the goals that were got again them last year and this except Concannon, were by the dent of slick passing of the ball, as opposed to coming from dropping balls coming directly into the Square. The sight of Connor Whelan, a player I have hugely respected for years, going for a point, when a goal chance was on, was also reassuring.
I know all about management making mistakes, we have seen plenty mistakes made by Limerick managements over the years.
But for all that Baire, I always think the best team wins and as Eamon Cregan and John Kiely said in the examples I gave, you just have to get back on the horse. Galway have plenty emerging talent to be the new Limerick in the next few years." There is no argument about the better team OTM. Limerick being the champions that they are could afford Casey's and Lynch's absence, GMac's loss was one that Galway could have done without.
With all due respects to your Limerick eyesight and my Galway one, when Liam Sheedy, one of the fairest punters on RTE and Shane Dowling say that Limerick got most of the marginal calls there must be some substance to it.
By my counting Kyle Hayes took at least 6 steps and it wouldn't be the first time for him to do it!
All those things had no real bearing on the outcome as I have said repeatedly, the team that scored the most were the deserving winners, same as happened in the Galway v Cork match in Thurles.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 09/07/2022 10:00:52
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Replying To baire: "I agree, it should never have been based on a provincial system. The present system is an improvement on the previous one but taking club, league and championship into consideration it's still a poor system.
It's not working in the football either. Munster could always play a separate knockout competition in the hurling." It was originally an All Ireland championship. The provincial set up was introduced afterwards to ease the burden of travelling. Believe it or not there were no coaches or motorways back then. The alternative to a pony for many was shanks pony!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16161 - 09/07/2022 10:00:59
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Only one example of a man reffing an All Ireland Final in which his own county was involved. That was 1910. Michael Cross, a Limerick man, who reffed seven Finals in all, refereed LK v WX, the score in favour of Wexford, was seven goals to 6.2. Cross disallowed three Limerick goals and one Wexford one. I don't think, Baire, we ever want one of our own in charge of a Final in which we are involved again." I said a ref from Connacht OTM, I didn't say a Galway ref! Please!
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 09/07/2022 10:10:06
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Ye were welcomed into Munster, and at all levels back in '59, and were beginning to get moving there when ye upped sticks and left ten years later. Baire, I honestly think that was a bad move from a Galway Hurling viewpoint and ye would have ended winning more since if ye had stayed put that time. The modern day revival in Galway Hurling, I feel, dates back to that stint in Munster. A few years they won '72 Under 21 title and seemed to progress from there." We were welcomed into Munster - the arrogance and entitlement is breathtaking! There's an echo of Cromwell's infamous order there!
Why would a Connacht team break their cojones to become Munster or Leinster champions? Please tell.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 09/07/2022 10:19:27
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Replying To Viking66: "Some of us that are actually living in Leinster like the Leinster championship and like the name it's always had. Young lads around here grow up dreaming of winning one, and have done for 140 odd years. Just because the same can't be said of young Galway lads why should it be renamed? Privilege is #### all to do with it." I notice you haven't answered my two questions!
The figure of 3 out of 12 is based on the current reality in Leinster Hurling. For a good number of years it could easily have been called 'The Cat Championship', with all due respects to your Wexford dreams, there was only one team winning it! You might want to put your house on it and call it, 'The Leinster Pyrite Championship'!
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 09/07/2022 10:44:41
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Replying To baire: "We were welcomed into Munster - the arrogance and entitlement is breathtaking! There's an echo of Cromwell's infamous order there!
Why would a Connacht team break their cojones to become Munster or Leinster champions? Please tell." You aren't from Munster Baire. Nothing to do with arrogance or entitlement. Just plain good old fashioned geography.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16161 - 09/07/2022 10:50:58
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Replying To baire: "I notice you haven't answered my two questions!
The figure of 3 out of 12 is based on the current reality in Leinster Hurling. For a good number of years it could easily have been called 'The Cat Championship', with all due respects to your Wexford dreams, there was only one team winning it! You might want to put your house on it and call it, 'The Leinster Pyrite Championship'!" We are putting our house in order. Our record against Kilkenny the last 6 or 7 years is one of parity. In your time noone including yourselves or any of the other leading hurling counties has a great record against Kilkenny in any Championship.
If you don't like the Leinster Championship go to your club and get them to put forward a motion to your County Board to withdraw from it. You are perfectly entitled, privileged or whatever else you want to call it, to do just that.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16161 - 09/07/2022 10:56:31
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Replying To Viking66: "You aren't from Munster Baire. Nothing to do with arrogance or entitlement. Just plain good old fashioned geography." Words mean something. The GAA is based on the parish not 'good old geography' whatever that means! Players play for their parish or their club. They put all their energy and loyalty into that club. Players are then chosen from those clubs to represent their county. When Joe Canning said that winning a Leinster didn't mean much to him, he didn't say it to disrespect the province of Leinster, he was only stating the obvious i.e it's all about identity.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 09/07/2022 11:21:37
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