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Mayo GAA Thread

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Replying To jacktheboy:  "Rochford has done nothing forDonegal football since joining them, he is their main coach and they have gone back big time under his coaching, just 50 yds forward and100 yards back with each phase of play."
They must get taxis back to the pitch after the match when they push up more in the second half.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 28/07/2022 09:24:45    2434994

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Replying To MayoDan:  "We spend more than almost anyone else on our senior team every year so I don't see why money would be an issue.

I wouldn't bring back Rochford for now anyway. They need a new voice in there to light a fire under players. Going back to a previous manager who ultimately didn't win anything isn't the answer.

Give Dempsey or Solan a shot for a couple of years."
Dan, do yourself a favour and read up on the MacHale Park debt, it's not too likely that the high levels of expenditure accrued in the past decade will be maintained into the future. The amounts quoted are eye-watering and one wonders how no one has been held accountable?

https://www.mayonews.ie/sports/38597-machale-park-loan-is-crippling

On the manager issue, Dempsey was not impressive as Mayo U-21 manager some years ago, although he has done well with Knockmore since. Solan won an All-Ireland U-21 in 2016 with a star-studded side by our standards, but I personally was not impressed with the way Jimmy Hyland was allowed to run riot in the 2018 final.

Rochford for me, a lot of the current panel wouldn't have previously played under him anyway, given the turnover in the past few years.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 28/07/2022 10:33:06    2435024

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Replying To Gleebo:  "Dan, do yourself a favour and read up on the MacHale Park debt, it's not too likely that the high levels of expenditure accrued in the past decade will be maintained into the future. The amounts quoted are eye-watering and one wonders how no one has been held accountable?

https://www.mayonews.ie/sports/38597-machale-park-loan-is-crippling

On the manager issue, Dempsey was not impressive as Mayo U-21 manager some years ago, although he has done well with Knockmore since. Solan won an All-Ireland U-21 in 2016 with a star-studded side by our standards, but I personally was not impressed with the way Jimmy Hyland was allowed to run riot in the 2018 final.

Rochford for me, a lot of the current panel wouldn't have previously played under him anyway, given the turnover in the past few years."
I completely understand the eye watering MacHale Park debt. I believe the repayments were around 33k per month before the pandemic and look to be 25k for the next 10 years. How did the CB afford Donie Buckley for 6 years or Tony McEntee for 3 years if the debt repayments were such a drain on finances?

If you're picking out flaws in Dempsey and Solan, surely we have to look at Rochford's inability to beat Galway 3 years running? Or being knocked out of the championship by an average Kildare team? The only time since 2011 that someone other than the eventual AI champions knocked us out. I also fail to see what he brought to Donegal in recent years.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 414 - 28/07/2022 10:58:11    2435032

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Replying To MayoDan:  "I completely understand the eye watering MacHale Park debt. I believe the repayments were around 33k per month before the pandemic and look to be 25k for the next 10 years. How did the CB afford Donie Buckley for 6 years or Tony McEntee for 3 years if the debt repayments were such a drain on finances?

If you're picking out flaws in Dempsey and Solan, surely we have to look at Rochford's inability to beat Galway 3 years running? Or being knocked out of the championship by an average Kildare team? The only time since 2011 that someone other than the eventual AI champions knocked us out. I also fail to see what he brought to Donegal in recent years."
Debt management.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 28/07/2022 11:54:25    2435046

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Word is Kevin McStay making a run for the Mayo job again with Rochford as an assistant along with Donie Buckley and Liam McHale. Looks like a dream management team to me and with Tommy Conroy and Ryan Ó Donoghue back next year things might be good in Mayo

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 28/07/2022 21:33:01    2435165

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Replying To MayoDan:  "I completely understand the eye watering MacHale Park debt. I believe the repayments were around 33k per month before the pandemic and look to be 25k for the next 10 years. How did the CB afford Donie Buckley for 6 years or Tony McEntee for 3 years if the debt repayments were such a drain on finances?

If you're picking out flaws in Dempsey and Solan, surely we have to look at Rochford's inability to beat Galway 3 years running? Or being knocked out of the championship by an average Kildare team? The only time since 2011 that someone other than the eventual AI champions knocked us out. I also fail to see what he brought to Donegal in recent years."
Dan,

County Board representatives have been quoted as saying that it's likely that the debt won't be paid off until 2057, i.e. 35 years from now. That's putting a whole lot of pressure on clubs and there are major questions surrounding any capital projects (such as a Centre of Excellence, or the hiring of outside managers) while we are saddled to such a debt mountain. Given that the County Board couldn't manage a tile wall properly, there's doubts that anything more ambitious could be done in the near future.

Regarding Rochford, it seems that this conversation has been overtaken by events slightly, and that Rochford has been named in the Indo as on a ticket including McStay as potential manager, with Donie Buckley and Liam MacHale as coaches.

In any case, I find your reasoning on his tenure a bit selective. Mayo had just won five Connacht titles in a row and had bigger fish to fry, quite honestly, while Galway were ravenous to stop Mayo from continuing that streak. That was their All-Ireland at the time, as evidenced by subsequent displays in the All-Ireland series. And seeing as unlike U21, the SFC is not a straight knockout series, Rochford managed to get the team motoring in a serious way.

Mayo also knocked the likes of Tyrone and Kerry out of the championship and if Cillian hadn't missed very kickable, last minute frees in both 2016 and 2017 against the Dubs (or Donie Vaughan hadn't gotten himself sent off), we'd be hailing Rochford as the messiah right now. No one has gotten closer to leading us there since 1951. I don't see Solan or Dempsey's experience at U21 or club level measuring up, quite honestly.

As you probably know, Mayo had an injury crisis in 2018 and were missing out first choice midfield pairing that day in Newbridge. The meetings with Kildare before and since lead me to believe that we would have won the game with a full side.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 29/07/2022 07:55:46    2435172

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Replying To Gleebo:  "Dan,

County Board representatives have been quoted as saying that it's likely that the debt won't be paid off until 2057, i.e. 35 years from now. That's putting a whole lot of pressure on clubs and there are major questions surrounding any capital projects (such as a Centre of Excellence, or the hiring of outside managers) while we are saddled to such a debt mountain. Given that the County Board couldn't manage a tile wall properly, there's doubts that anything more ambitious could be done in the near future.

Regarding Rochford, it seems that this conversation has been overtaken by events slightly, and that Rochford has been named in the Indo as on a ticket including McStay as potential manager, with Donie Buckley and Liam MacHale as coaches.

In any case, I find your reasoning on his tenure a bit selective. Mayo had just won five Connacht titles in a row and had bigger fish to fry, quite honestly, while Galway were ravenous to stop Mayo from continuing that streak. That was their All-Ireland at the time, as evidenced by subsequent displays in the All-Ireland series. And seeing as unlike U21, the SFC is not a straight knockout series, Rochford managed to get the team motoring in a serious way.

Mayo also knocked the likes of Tyrone and Kerry out of the championship and if Cillian hadn't missed very kickable, last minute frees in both 2016 and 2017 against the Dubs (or Donie Vaughan hadn't gotten himself sent off), we'd be hailing Rochford as the messiah right now. No one has gotten closer to leading us there since 1951. I don't see Solan or Dempsey's experience at U21 or club level measuring up, quite honestly.

As you probably know, Mayo had an injury crisis in 2018 and were missing out first choice midfield pairing that day in Newbridge. The meetings with Kildare before and since lead me to believe that we would have won the game with a full side."
100% agree Gleebo. While he might not be the main man coming in I am delighted he is on the ticket (assuming the CB agree)

I think it shows huge maturity by both Roch and McStay, Some people in McStays would feel threatened by bringing Roch back in, that he would somehow undermine him. And on Rochs part, he is going in there as a number 2 having previously been in the hot seat -that's not easy either so hats off to them... egos don't seem to be getting in the way here.


Separately I don't think we should lose a wink of sleep about the Bank debt - there's nothing the Bank can do about it - no one is going to repossess McHale Park.. I am fairly certain John Delaney didn't lose any sleep on the FAI finances!

As I read in the Mayo news "we are where we are" and the Bank will just have to live with it

Cbar (Mayo) - Posts: 308 - 29/07/2022 10:09:49    2435188

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Replying To Gleebo:  "Dan,

County Board representatives have been quoted as saying that it's likely that the debt won't be paid off until 2057, i.e. 35 years from now. That's putting a whole lot of pressure on clubs and there are major questions surrounding any capital projects (such as a Centre of Excellence, or the hiring of outside managers) while we are saddled to such a debt mountain. Given that the County Board couldn't manage a tile wall properly, there's doubts that anything more ambitious could be done in the near future.

Regarding Rochford, it seems that this conversation has been overtaken by events slightly, and that Rochford has been named in the Indo as on a ticket including McStay as potential manager, with Donie Buckley and Liam MacHale as coaches.

In any case, I find your reasoning on his tenure a bit selective. Mayo had just won five Connacht titles in a row and had bigger fish to fry, quite honestly, while Galway were ravenous to stop Mayo from continuing that streak. That was their All-Ireland at the time, as evidenced by subsequent displays in the All-Ireland series. And seeing as unlike U21, the SFC is not a straight knockout series, Rochford managed to get the team motoring in a serious way.

Mayo also knocked the likes of Tyrone and Kerry out of the championship and if Cillian hadn't missed very kickable, last minute frees in both 2016 and 2017 against the Dubs (or Donie Vaughan hadn't gotten himself sent off), we'd be hailing Rochford as the messiah right now. No one has gotten closer to leading us there since 1951. I don't see Solan or Dempsey's experience at U21 or club level measuring up, quite honestly.

As you probably know, Mayo had an injury crisis in 2018 and were missing out first choice midfield pairing that day in Newbridge. The meetings with Kildare before and since lead me to believe that we would have won the game with a full side."
I'm not denying there is a scandalous amount of debt, but this is not a new issue. In fact the monthly repayments were 8k per month higher a few years ago so I don't see why they'll only start penny pinching on the senior team now.

Maybe you could write off Rochford's first defeat vs Galway as them being ravenous, us not at the same pitch etc. but not 3 years in a row! Do you think if a Kerry manager lost to Cork 3 years running he'd be asked back? Also interesting you blame Cillian for missing a free in the 16 final and not the crazy team selection that day!

We've had lots of injuries the last few years. 2018 wasn't unique in that regard, but it was our worst championship campaign by far since 2010.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 414 - 29/07/2022 10:25:06    2435192

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Replying To MayoDan:  "I'm not denying there is a scandalous amount of debt, but this is not a new issue. In fact the monthly repayments were 8k per month higher a few years ago so I don't see why they'll only start penny pinching on the senior team now.

Maybe you could write off Rochford's first defeat vs Galway as them being ravenous, us not at the same pitch etc. but not 3 years in a row! Do you think if a Kerry manager lost to Cork 3 years running he'd be asked back? Also interesting you blame Cillian for missing a free in the 16 final and not the crazy team selection that day!

We've had lots of injuries the last few years. 2018 wasn't unique in that regard, but it was our worst championship campaign by far since 2010."
I would argue that there are new dimensions to the debt issue, given that this year our players were traipsing round the county from night to night. Also, the county board have just announced that the timeline for repayment is much longer than previously thought, so I reckon it's a valid topic for discussion vis-á-vis how it's going to affect the county senior team, amongst other things.

Ah look, Cork and Kerry are not really relevant to what we do up here, but if you want to go down that road, Cork beat Kerry in Munster in 2006, 2008 and 2009 and no one was sacked as a result. Personally speaking, I wouldn't give a fig if Galway beat us next year in Connacht if we ended up winning Sam. We've won 48 Connacht titles for feck's sake. Do you think Galway people got hung up about losing to Roscommon in 2001 given what they did later on?

If Cillian had nailed either of those frees in 2016 or 2017, we'd probably have won the All-Ireland those years, Hennelly or no Hennelly. That's the plain truth of it. I suppose Rochford was to blame for the own goals too?

As regards 2018, if you think missing your first choice midfield pairing isn't a serious blow to any side, then I'm speechless tbh. We lost to Sligo and Longford in 2010, Horan almost lost to London in his first year, there are lots of bad days to talk about other than Newbridge.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 29/07/2022 13:57:25    2435229

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I have had on good authority that despite the interest around McStay, he's not exactly the first choice of the players. There is a belief that there is a sense of entitlement for the job (a la Flynn and O'Rourke in Meath), by virtue of the media presence, and actually may be better up to date options with a lesser known profile out there. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. There will be some "pressure" on the board to 'finally' appoint McStay but they will also want a yes man who will dance to their tune.

fancyaride (Mayo) - Posts: 180 - 29/07/2022 14:11:42    2435234

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Would ye not be absolutely mad not to take a ticket of Mcstay, Mchale, Rochford and Buckley. What's the problem? If some of the players have a problem they should be shown the door. A committee is there for that job. Tail wagging the dog as usual. I'd jump at that management in Roscommon

Ros2013 (Roscommon) - Posts: 517 - 29/07/2022 14:53:25    2435247

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Replying To Gleebo:  "I would argue that there are new dimensions to the debt issue, given that this year our players were traipsing round the county from night to night. Also, the county board have just announced that the timeline for repayment is much longer than previously thought, so I reckon it's a valid topic for discussion vis-á-vis how it's going to affect the county senior team, amongst other things.

Ah look, Cork and Kerry are not really relevant to what we do up here, but if you want to go down that road, Cork beat Kerry in Munster in 2006, 2008 and 2009 and no one was sacked as a result. Personally speaking, I wouldn't give a fig if Galway beat us next year in Connacht if we ended up winning Sam. We've won 48 Connacht titles for feck's sake. Do you think Galway people got hung up about losing to Roscommon in 2001 given what they did later on?

If Cillian had nailed either of those frees in 2016 or 2017, we'd probably have won the All-Ireland those years, Hennelly or no Hennelly. That's the plain truth of it. I suppose Rochford was to blame for the own goals too?

As regards 2018, if you think missing your first choice midfield pairing isn't a serious blow to any side, then I'm speechless tbh. We lost to Sligo and Longford in 2010, Horan almost lost to London in his first year, there are lots of bad days to talk about other than Newbridge."
The debt is so astronomical that saving a few thousand on the senior team won't make a difference to it. They're really separate issues.

The difference is Kerry went and won the All Ireland 2 of those years, beating Cork in the final on one occasion. Rochford lost to Galway sides that did nothing outside connacht, apart from reach a SF in 2018. If Kevin McLoughlin was playing his usual half forward role instead of sweeper we may not have conceded 1 of those own goals, but that's all hypothetical. Just like saying Cillian scoring a free would have turned a 1 point defeat into a victory.

Missing your midfield partnership was hard but I'd argue we'd a worse run of injuries this year and still reached a league final, beat 2 division 1 teams in championship and only got knocked out by the eventual AI champions.

I think we need new people on the management team, not going back to what wasn't good enough previously.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 414 - 29/07/2022 15:21:11    2435254

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Replying To Ros2013:  "Would ye not be absolutely mad not to take a ticket of Mcstay, Mchale, Rochford and Buckley. What's the problem? If some of the players have a problem they should be shown the door. A committee is there for that job. Tail wagging the dog as usual. I'd jump at that management in Roscommon"
I would say that it's the strongest-looking ticket so far, in my opinion anyway. It seems like the contenders are all local on this occasion anyway, so hopefully they will be given a chance. But nothing surprises me given the cack-handed approach to previous appointments.

On the management issue, I imagine that some of the players may not have been happy with one or two comments on the Sunday Game in recent years. But IMO the way to deal with that would be the same way Jack O'Connor dealt with the fallout from his book in his second term, have a powwow, let everyone have their say and be done with it. If it's good enough for Kerry, it should be good enough for us.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 29/07/2022 16:37:24    2435282

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Replying To MayoDan:  "The debt is so astronomical that saving a few thousand on the senior team won't make a difference to it. They're really separate issues.

The difference is Kerry went and won the All Ireland 2 of those years, beating Cork in the final on one occasion. Rochford lost to Galway sides that did nothing outside connacht, apart from reach a SF in 2018. If Kevin McLoughlin was playing his usual half forward role instead of sweeper we may not have conceded 1 of those own goals, but that's all hypothetical. Just like saying Cillian scoring a free would have turned a 1 point defeat into a victory.

Missing your midfield partnership was hard but I'd argue we'd a worse run of injuries this year and still reached a league final, beat 2 division 1 teams in championship and only got knocked out by the eventual AI champions.

I think we need new people on the management team, not going back to what wasn't good enough previously."
Rochford getting us close to 2 All Irelands in his first two seasons is bad but losing to eventual All Ireland winners is good?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 29/07/2022 17:16:04    2435289

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Replying To fancyaride:  "I have had on good authority that despite the interest around McStay, he's not exactly the first choice of the players. There is a belief that there is a sense of entitlement for the job (a la Flynn and O'Rourke in Meath), by virtue of the media presence, and actually may be better up to date options with a lesser known profile out there. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. There will be some "pressure" on the board to 'finally' appoint McStay but they will also want a yes man who will dance to their tune."
Who gives a flying fcuk what some players think. If they don't like it then tough.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 29/07/2022 18:17:57    2435303

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Replying To Ros2013:  "Would ye not be absolutely mad not to take a ticket of Mcstay, Mchale, Rochford and Buckley. What's the problem? If some of the players have a problem they should be shown the door. A committee is there for that job. Tail wagging the dog as usual. I'd jump at that management in Roscommon"
Roscommon already had McStay and McHale involved could probably do with Buckley more than the others to learn them how to defend properly.

Mcstay has played the media by throwing his hat into the ring a few hours before nomination deadline is closes and his possible management published to the media. A spanner thrown in the works of the county board who thought it would a straight forward to select a new manager.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3338 - 29/07/2022 18:23:00    2435306

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Rochford getting us close to 2 All Irelands in his first two seasons is bad but losing to eventual All Ireland winners is good?"
Who said that? I was just comparing how Rochford and Horan managed to deal with a few injuries in recent years. I think if you look at Rochford's 3 years with Mayo, league and championship, it wasn't nearly as impressive as some make out. So I don't see the value bringing him back, especially when you consider Donegal stagnated completely with him in the backroom team.

Surely there are lots of innovative coaches around that could offer a new perspective? I think that's what we need - someone to reinvigorate the likes of Paddy Durcan, Mattie, Diarmuid and Cillian etc.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 414 - 30/07/2022 09:30:37    2435331

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Roscommon already had McStay and McHale involved could probably do with Buckley more than the others to learn them how to defend properly.

Mcstay has played the media by throwing his hat into the ring a few hours before nomination deadline is closes and his possible management published to the media. A spanner thrown in the works of the county board who thought it would a straight forward to select a new manager."
In fairness to McStay and McHale, they got Ros promoted to Division One, won a Connacht SFC and got them to the Super 8's, plus nearly beat us in the drawn quarter final in 2017. That's near enough the summit of the abilities of their squad at the time, IMO.

I would hope that if they did get it that MacHale would keep his head down, no more media appearances or guest columns on the morning of big championship matches, please.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 30/07/2022 11:39:12    2435347

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If I was a Mayo supporter I would love to see McStay ic with his experienced team with him. I honestly think it might be just the extra step Mayo need.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 30/07/2022 11:58:42    2435355

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "If I was a Mayo supporter I would love to see McStay ic with his experienced team with him. I honestly think it might be just the extra step Mayo need."
I think McStay's managerial peak has passed. Would prefer that ticket without him and Mike Solan and/or Ray Dempsey involved with Rochford, McHale and Buckley.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 30/07/2022 13:47:46    2435394

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