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Monaghan GAA thread

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So….. After that, where exactly are we?

The 15 minute period at the start of the second half will no doubt leave some feeling we aren't far away but, my god we are.
Derry are probably a 6-8 point better team than us. That's a Div 2 team, all be it on the rise…
We have absolutely no consistency in our performances, 1 week world beater, next week terrible.

The 3 year "project" under Banty had taught us, along with the rest of the country one thing, you can't buy success.

Blueblood4life (Monaghan) - Posts: 149 - 15/05/2022 18:18:26    2417308

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I'd say that's it for that monaghan team and a shot at ulster, sleep walked into that one. Alot of poor calls by management but the players always let you down on the big day, that's been the story of the past 10 years when you need them to deliver, they wilt. Harsh but true. Terrific servants by the way and there commitment can never be questioned but they are poor under pressure. What's next? A kind qualifier draw and a QF exit. Back to cheer leading division 1 football next winter then.

222 (UK) - Posts: 602 - 15/05/2022 18:19:02    2417310

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To what extent any analysis was done on Derry's style of play on the lead up to this game has to be questioned. You cannot go two goals down to a team that play 15 behind the ball and then break at speed. We set up to accommodate that very strategy.
Derry were much better than us today and indeed much better that I thought they were. Good luck to them.
The one question I would have about Derry going forward is what do they do when they go behind against a good team, and have they got a plan B. We'll find that out later in the year

While the outsiders on this forum are welcome to offer their opinions, the blame for this defeat must lie firmly at inept management. We, the supporters and armchair analysts, knew what was coming. Surely the management must have had some inkling. Essentially we played into their strengths, just like against Tyrone last year.
Disappointed but not surprised

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 969 - 15/05/2022 19:55:33    2417378

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Not surprised by today result, Monaghan far too often have played with the handbrake on under this management.when the game is gone or going away the handbrake comes off.
Slow and ponderous in the first half, then run in to the tackle play stupid kick passes then the poor defenders are left with exposed 1 on 1.
Game gone and low and behold Monaghan decide to play with freedom and pace.
Too late the blame for defeat lies with the county board for letting the coin run county football.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1875 - 15/05/2022 20:41:11    2417404

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V disappointing performance by Monaghan. tactically inept against a superbly organised opponent they lacked any intensitiy in first half and going seven points down to a well drilled counter attacking side like Derry mean curtains at half time despite the usual rally. Wasn't that dissimilar to semi final v down in 2017. Not having a go at individual players but surely we have better defenders in the county than some of the lads who lined out today. The signs were there v Down and in the league the defence is poor and leaks goals. Banty is the ideal manager for likes of Gallagher as v predictable how sides will play and no real plan B. On a positive Niall Kearns was superb today and almost carried Monaghan on his back at times.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1692 - 15/05/2022 20:49:05    2417408

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A sobering experience in Armagh to say the least. Serious questions need to be asked of the management, It was like they are more interested in playing a style of football instead of doing whatever it takes to win games. Surely we had a game plan strategy in our armoury that consisted of playing 15 men behind the ball and mirroring a team like Derry and frustrating them at their own game.

Did management honestly think we would be able to push up on Derry for the entire game and expect to get joy and not play a sweeper or pack our defence. I was honestly expecting us to mirror derrys game plan today and keep the score down and dog it out, instead it was the exact opposite, unbelievable.

Also Andrew Woods has been one of our best players all year and dropping him was madness. Although we had many many wides, Derry put severe pressure on the kicker and narrowed the angles and this all added to the wides, where was our pressure ?? It consisted of leaving 4 men in our forwards when Derry attacked and hoping we would be good enough man on man to win every battle.

We were never winning this game today with those tactics given our player pool and calibre. Good teams ask questions of other teams and can amend their tactics, team etc from game to game to ask these questions, we just stick with the same. No 75m long kickouts, no high balls in the square, no surprises on match ups, no bolters in the team, NOTHING, just stale football, Its a long way away from Malachy giving Padraig Donaghy a start in an ulster final in 2013, he amended his teams etc to WIN games, sadly this management cant and its why we are in the qualifier draw year after year.

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 292 - 15/05/2022 21:23:13    2417425

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Replying To mhunicean_abu:  "To what extent any analysis was done on Derry's style of play on the lead up to this game has to be questioned. You cannot go two goals down to a team that play 15 behind the ball and then break at speed. We set up to accommodate that very strategy.
Derry were much better than us today and indeed much better that I thought they were. Good luck to them.
The one question I would have about Derry going forward is what do they do when they go behind against a good team, and have they got a plan B. We'll find that out later in the year

While the outsiders on this forum are welcome to offer their opinions, the blame for this defeat must lie firmly at inept management. We, the supporters and armchair analysts, knew what was coming. Surely the management must have had some inkling. Essentially we played into their strengths, just like against Tyrone last year.
Disappointed but not surprised"
Well i will offer mine , As i have been saying on previous posts , national league is one thing , Cship is a whole different kettle of fish, for a long time you , the supporters have blamed Banty for all your woes, some posters on here talking about All Ireland semis, and what hotel they were going to stay in, after beating the worst Down team ive seen in years, Maybe the players bought into all this semi final talk , and today were caught cold , who knows maybe they will get to that semi, but you the supporters would need to pipe down a bit and take it one game at a time , Its C ship one game at a time folks

germac (Down) - Posts: 408 - 15/05/2022 21:27:36    2417428

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pitch invasions & fist pumps to the crowd after the likes of a league game against Dublin seems a distant memory after yesterday's result.. again going flat out to preserve our div 1 status amongst all the fanfare has done nothing for our championship campaign. Time to leave money aside and get a fresh young hungry manager in to take us on.. Gallagher has his haters but again he has proved to be 1 of the best out there..

mick2007 (Monaghan) - Posts: 348 - 16/05/2022 08:49:59    2417470

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Replying To germac:  "Well i will offer mine , As i have been saying on previous posts , national league is one thing , Cship is a whole different kettle of fish, for a long time you , the supporters have blamed Banty for all your woes, some posters on here talking about All Ireland semis, and what hotel they were going to stay in, after beating the worst Down team ive seen in years, Maybe the players bought into all this semi final talk , and today were caught cold , who knows maybe they will get to that semi, but you the supporters would need to pipe down a bit and take it one game at a time , Its C ship one game at a time folks"
Wouldn't say the league was all that impressive either. They final day v dublin papered over a lot of cracks which were exposed in various games mainly the defence and slow lateral build up play leading to us being easy to defend against. Monaghan have not had the eye of the tiger that Derry had yesterday in ulster in years and were fortunate to make final last year. Armagh cut through us for two easy goals last year same as down in previous round. Monaghan team of malachy had bad days out in ulster but were never that wide open. You had the wylies Walsh Corey kelly o connell dessie mone all in their prime or near it. The defence now while good footballers on their day and can take scores not the level needed to win ulster titles.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1692 - 16/05/2022 09:49:44    2417503

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Did Derry do anything different than they did against Tyrone ??? No they did not. How could a management team not prepare properly in two weeks for what was coming? An embarrassment,and should step down immediately instead of slobbering with excuses to the media.

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 265 - 16/05/2022 10:14:09    2417534

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There were glimpses that Monaghan had progresses to a more attack minded team but you reverted to old habits yesterday. The build up were so slow which Derry found easier to defend against. Monaghan needed to be far more direct and play quicker and earlier ball inside.....just like Derry did

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 493 - 16/05/2022 10:20:22    2417541

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I wouldn't agree with you, Mr.
Rinn, Rynn, Ring, Reen, Wrynn, Wren, or even Wrenn. I predict that Monaghan will win that match. O'Rinn is a great camouflage, btw."
Yes, and you know your football Mr Foreveryoung, yong, ying, yang. Time for your buddy to step aside.

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 265 - 16/05/2022 10:25:19    2417544

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Knock out Ulster championship means you are only a bad 20 minutes, a couple of soft goals or a good opposing manager away from disaster, dejection and calls for heads.

Yesterday was very disappointing. It was like watching a friend make the same mistake for the umpteenth time in slow motion.

Monaghan lost fair and square, and fair play to Derry.

However, I would very much would like to meet Derry again this summer. Are they a better team? I am not convinced. The rode a wave of emotion to win this game and fair play to their manager for helping to create this. It is a very powerful element of sport. Monaghan left 3-4 points behind them yesterday and on another day would have only shipped 2 goals. I am also convinced there should have been a black card or two for Derry. So even with the goals, the emotion, the getting rattled, the poor game management, Monaghan dominated the second half and on another day might have prevailed. It remains possible the the same tactics would have won on another day, maybe even 60% of other days, we will never know.

Whether you think the strategy was all wrong v Derry (strong argument for this for sure), there are also strong arguments to say selection was an issue (Karl O'Connell should play against these types of teams all day long and another poster made point about Andrew Woods) and in game management was poor. Improvements on any of these dimensions might have got a different result. Monaghan seem to have an issue stopping goals and this is probably related to an overly aggressive team set up.

Must admit I did not like the unsporting behaviour by the Derry players - holding on to the ball, wasting time lying on the ground every time they got touch, all designed to take the energy of the game. Jose Mourihno would have been proud and maybe Monaghan need to be a bit more like this and would blow big leads like via Tyrone and Armagh in the league. So in a way we can respect their antics although it would be best for all it was not part of the game.

We need to remain positive. A favourable draw and it could be Louth, Limerick, Galway and Donegal to get to the All Ireland final. The players should relish this challenge and pick themselves up again. Mayo and Tyrone certainly will relish it and see themselves going that far.

A fresh mindset by all (can't be weighed down by the negativity) and better and more adaptable (in game) tactics by management and all is possible. Believe.

And I don't buy the argument that Monaghan should deemphasis the league. There are only 9 to 15 league and championship games in six months for heaven sake.

turnip12 (Monaghan) - Posts: 14 - 16/05/2022 10:27:21    2417545

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Replying To 222:  "I'd say that's it for that monaghan team and a shot at ulster, sleep walked into that one. Alot of poor calls by management but the players always let you down on the big day, that's been the story of the past 10 years when you need them to deliver, they wilt. Harsh but true. Terrific servants by the way and there commitment can never be questioned but they are poor under pressure. What's next? A kind qualifier draw and a QF exit. Back to cheer leading division 1 football next winter then."
'Players always let you down on the big day, that's been the story of the past 10 years when you need them to deliver, they wilt.'

I don't agree with that at all. In the last 10 years they have gone from Div 3 to Div 1 and stayed there very much against the odds. They have won 2 ulster titles and contested 2 more finals. They were the best side the reigning all ireland champions faced last year.

Yesterday they were off it entirely on the line. Management made bad, bad calls. Too late to fix when you have shipped two goals against a team like that. Banty did not learn from what happened in the Derry - Tyrone game. Nor did he learn from the Down game where Monaghan shipped two goals to a poor (on the day) Down team.

Is your expectation that Monaghan win sam? I am realistic...and where I would love that its fanciful stuff. Monaghan can put in bad performances sometimes the players are off and sometimes the tactics are wrong. Saying a team wilt on big days is a nonsense when you look at the success they have enjoyed over the last 10 years. The only Ulster teams that have had better outcomes in the last 10 years are Donegal and Tyrone. In a very competitive province thats not bad. When I was a kid watching Monaghan lose game after game in the 90s was no fun.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 219 - 16/05/2022 10:53:55    2417568

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Replying To turnip12:  "Knock out Ulster championship means you are only a bad 20 minutes, a couple of soft goals or a good opposing manager away from disaster, dejection and calls for heads.

Yesterday was very disappointing. It was like watching a friend make the same mistake for the umpteenth time in slow motion.

Monaghan lost fair and square, and fair play to Derry.

However, I would very much would like to meet Derry again this summer. Are they a better team? I am not convinced. The rode a wave of emotion to win this game and fair play to their manager for helping to create this. It is a very powerful element of sport. Monaghan left 3-4 points behind them yesterday and on another day would have only shipped 2 goals. I am also convinced there should have been a black card or two for Derry. So even with the goals, the emotion, the getting rattled, the poor game management, Monaghan dominated the second half and on another day might have prevailed. It remains possible the the same tactics would have won on another day, maybe even 60% of other days, we will never know.

Whether you think the strategy was all wrong v Derry (strong argument for this for sure), there are also strong arguments to say selection was an issue (Karl O'Connell should play against these types of teams all day long and another poster made point about Andrew Woods) and in game management was poor. Improvements on any of these dimensions might have got a different result. Monaghan seem to have an issue stopping goals and this is probably related to an overly aggressive team set up.

Must admit I did not like the unsporting behaviour by the Derry players - holding on to the ball, wasting time lying on the ground every time they got touch, all designed to take the energy of the game. Jose Mourihno would have been proud and maybe Monaghan need to be a bit more like this and would blow big leads like via Tyrone and Armagh in the league. So in a way we can respect their antics although it would be best for all it was not part of the game.

We need to remain positive. A favourable draw and it could be Louth, Limerick, Galway and Donegal to get to the All Ireland final. The players should relish this challenge and pick themselves up again. Mayo and Tyrone certainly will relish it and see themselves going that far.

A fresh mindset by all (can't be weighed down by the negativity) and better and more adaptable (in game) tactics by management and all is possible. Believe.

And I don't buy the argument that Monaghan should deemphasis the league. There are only 9 to 15 league and championship games in six months for heaven sake."
Some sour grapes there. Commentary lads pointed to a possible black for the foul on McGuigan when in on goal early on and Hughes grabbing an arm to go to ground to get a free and other soft frees. Can always point to things in a game but there's no doubt who deserved it on the day. Anyway good luck to Monaghan going forward for the rest of the summer.

RoverTin (Derry) - Posts: 221 - 16/05/2022 11:30:27    2417601

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This defeat can be blamed squarely at management or players but the truth is, it's a bit of both. The players are on the field and if they misplace a pass or hit a wide or a tackle, it is their fault. And yes, there was a lot of that going on. Mishit frees, passes, wrong choices for passes, misjudging opposition passes. The players collectively need to look at themselves for litany of errors they made.

From the management side that was entirely foreseeable. A Rory Gallagher team carries certain hallmarks - a structured defensive approach, passion and gamesmanship. Hard to believe Monaghan management didn't see that in the Tyrone game and act accordingly.

The whole way through the league, Monaghan were mostly big on effort but low on turning that possession into scores. Scoring percentages from chances was painfully nowhere near what it should be. The Down game was the exception where it was 80% or so. Yesterday Colm Shalvey of Northern standard tweeted it was 17 pts from 36 chances. Less than 50% which is woeful. You simply do not win games with a stat like that. But this is what Monaghan have been doing this year. The Mayo game where they missed 7 frees (some dropped short) among 13 wides. The Armagh game where they kicked a load of wides. They were very wasteful against Tyrone and even in the win against Donegal, there was a lot of missed opportunities. When you have a trend like this, who need to question tactically what are the team doing.

Banty over 2 spells as Manager and 8 years has never been the most tactically astute. He ain't no Mal O'Rourke. He can gee the team up for some chest thumping performances but it ain't enough. Over 8 years, he just hasn't done it. For years other coaches like Harte, Cassidy etc always had the best of him. He's always one step behind. I'm happy he won an Ulster Minor championship as he's a proud monaghan man but that minor team were hot favorites two win it and I'm sure another man e.g. Counihan would have done the same with that squad.

The manager picks the team and the buck stops with Banty. Starting Conor McCarthy at half back this year has been one of the more weird decisions Banty has taken, similar to when he started Mansy at half back in his first tenure. McCarthy is one of thee best forwards in Monaghan and it still does not make sense. He ought to be one the 40 as number 11. And then there is Aaron Mulligan who walked off the panel. Easily one of the best forwards in Monaghan and he's gone. A mismanagement of a massive talent. Dropping Woods yesterday who played well when he came on was a wild decision. It made no sense. Derry's half back line are such strong runners and Monaghan had no answer to them. Management need to be ruthless when selecting the team and it is beyond me how Carey keeps getting game time year after year - during league and championship , 9 games in 2022 , Carey has hit a total of 4 pts from play. Management look at that and the overall scoring stats and not see a correlation. Bannigan and K Hughes were also not impressing yesterday either, but the manager picked them there and is ultimately responsible for the type of player he selects.

We could go into another year with Banty such is power over the county board. It won't move Monaghan on any further and no lessons will be learned.

sleater (Monaghan) - Posts: 127 - 16/05/2022 11:41:12    2417607

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Replying To Blueblood4life:  "So….. After that, where exactly are we?

The 15 minute period at the start of the second half will no doubt leave some feeling we aren't far away but, my god we are.
Derry are probably a 6-8 point better team than us. That's a Div 2 team, all be it on the rise…
We have absolutely no consistency in our performances, 1 week world beater, next week terrible.

The 3 year "project" under Banty had taught us, along with the rest of the country one thing, you can't buy success."
Firstly many congratulations to Derry, great to see a proud footballing county back at the business end of things.

On Monaghan - going backwards, tactically inept yet again against a Rory Gallagher led team. The shoot-out v Dublin covered over some cracks and playing the most un-motivated Down team in history certainly papered over them. County Board need to t step at the end of the season up an make some key decisions (not motivated by money).

conjack76 (Monaghan) - Posts: 74 - 16/05/2022 11:48:31    2417614

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Replying To Blueblood4life:  "So….. After that, where exactly are we?

The 15 minute period at the start of the second half will no doubt leave some feeling we aren't far away but, my god we are.
Derry are probably a 6-8 point better team than us. That's a Div 2 team, all be it on the rise…
We have absolutely no consistency in our performances, 1 week world beater, next week terrible.

The 3 year "project" under Banty had taught us, along with the rest of the country one thing, you can't buy success."
Firstly many congratulations to Derry, great to see a proud footballing county back at the business end of things.

On Monaghan - going backwards, tactically inept yet again against a Rory Gallagher led team. The shoot-out v Dublin covered over some cracks and playing the most un-motivated Down team in history certainly papered over them. County Board need to t step at the end of the season up an make some key decisions (not motivated by money).

conjack76 (Monaghan) - Posts: 74 - 16/05/2022 11:51:23    2417616

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Question, if we swap the managers from Monaghan and Derry , does the result change ?
Fairly certain it's yes, so in simple terms it s on the management team, how many is that , Cavan 3 years ago , Armagh last year (although got away with it )
Tyrone last year, and yesterday
Sure hope the county board are happy with their appointments, joke

Monaghan78 (Monaghan) - Posts: 13 - 16/05/2022 11:59:23    2417619

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Replying To mhunicean_abu:  "To what extent any analysis was done on Derry's style of play on the lead up to this game has to be questioned. You cannot go two goals down to a team that play 15 behind the ball and then break at speed. We set up to accommodate that very strategy.
Derry were much better than us today and indeed much better that I thought they were. Good luck to them.
The one question I would have about Derry going forward is what do they do when they go behind against a good team, and have they got a plan B. We'll find that out later in the year

While the outsiders on this forum are welcome to offer their opinions, the blame for this defeat must lie firmly at inept management. We, the supporters and armchair analysts, knew what was coming. Surely the management must have had some inkling. Essentially we played into their strengths, just like against Tyrone last year.
Disappointed but not surprised"
Over the last few months I've found myself a little bemused by the anti Banty sentiment on this forum. He's kept them in division one and they're always competitive and they've been very close in Ulster.

Though I did find the tactics very strange yesterday and I'd be a bit annoyed if I was from Monaghan. I just don't want they were up to in the first half. They needed to at least partially replicate Derry and keep the score close in the first half. I mentioned in the match forum that the athletic grounds have a very pronounced scoring goal and Derry were playing into it in the first half. Donegal scored plenty into it against Cavan in 2020 but couldn't score into the other goal in the second half. We had a similar enough challenge in a league game last year. If they did that they could have then been able to manage the second half on their own terms. That still might not have worked out as Derry are very good but the tactics really reduced your chances.

In the second half Monaghan were the better team and points were much easier come by. O'Connell made a huge difference and kierns was also excellent. Though because you were so far back and had to push up Derry were likely to get enough in the break win and they did.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 661 - 16/05/2022 12:22:12    2417630

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