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Hear Ye, Hear Ye : Whingers everywhere
To Borrow a word form the great philosopher Lougnane:

To all the begrudgers from Galway, Tipp, Cork Wexford Kilkenny, and anyone else I might have missed:
Us proud Limerick supporters are working diligently to accept the fact that, while " it's lonely at the top,it's very crowded at the bottom". Long may it continue. Be assured: We know how ye feel. Luinneach Abu

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1359 - 14/03/2022 17:09:07    2405445

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "A lack of discipline will catch up with ye in the long run if it's not addressed and sorted out? If i can see it you can be sure other county players and managers can see it and will see it as a perceived weakness. That's all I've said. I' questioned here before that if Gillane and Flanagan had gotten the line in the Munster Final last year the whole championship could have been entirely different.... that in essence would have been ill discipline catching up with ye.
I gave my opinion on Daithi Burkes pull, in my opinion it wasn't intentional. Reckless alright, maybe could have warranted a card, but not intentional whereas the same cannot be said for Gillanes pull. He was trying to hit Conor Cleary in the head.
Anyway its great that every team going into 2022 has some sort of question marks hanging over them, big or small."
Daithi Burke wasn't intentional? Ah come on you haven't a clue God help you.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 14/03/2022 19:29:35    2405458

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Replying To tiobraid:  "They would have been up against a very in form Waterford team on the day though so it may not have been as clear cut as you think. It's all ifs and buts tho. Limerick were so dominant in that second half that they would probably have won with 14 and Flanagan surely would have not put in such a stupid tackle if already down to 14. In my memory the best team always wins the All Ireland every year."
I would agree the best always wins. That is why Limerick are going for three in a row. A mean or dirty stroke while should not be tolerated it never won any thing. It is just noise and an attempt to pull down a team. It is not going to work on me either about Limerick.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/03/2022 20:57:15    2405469

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Replying To updwell:  "Daithi Burke wasn't intentional? Ah come on you haven't a clue God help you."
Is that all ye picked up from that post???

I'm not a begrudger or one bit Anti Limerick, ye've been the best team 3 out of the last 4 years, what i'm highlighting is that there seems to be a discipline problem in the squad which i think could be a potential major weakness and if its not looked into could cost ye in a big game.
But the only response i've received here have been deflectory and accusing me of begrudgement instead of actually talking about the issue.

LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 409 - 15/03/2022 10:39:42    2405497

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "Is that all ye picked up from that post???

I'm not a begrudger or one bit Anti Limerick, ye've been the best team 3 out of the last 4 years, what i'm highlighting is that there seems to be a discipline problem in the squad which i think could be a potential major weakness and if its not looked into could cost ye in a big game.
But the only response i've received here have been deflectory and accusing me of begrudgement instead of actually talking about the issue."
Larry we've discussed it ad nauseum. No one wants these lads getting red cards. We all know Aaron has a tendency to be silly with the hurley and some of the lads are very physical to the point where they over step the mark. The reason limerick supporters aren't losing their mind is that they've played this way since 17. They've won nearly all in front of them in this time. They are the hurlers they are because of how they approach the game of hurling. If they back off/change their style or approach they will not be the same force in my opinion. Every successful physical team in the past plays on the edge and well over it at times . It's intimidatory and incredibly effective at mentally dismantling your opponent. Limerick are a hugely physical team and with that comes moments when they will be punished. If we get red cards in April that's just the way it'll be. I said last few years only thing stopping limerick is red cards and injuries. It's the same this year.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1128 - 15/03/2022 11:07:31    2405506

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "Is that all ye picked up from that post???

I'm not a begrudger or one bit Anti Limerick, ye've been the best team 3 out of the last 4 years, what i'm highlighting is that there seems to be a discipline problem in the squad which i think could be a potential major weakness and if its not looked into could cost ye in a big game.
But the only response i've received here have been deflectory and accusing me of begrudgement instead of actually talking about the issue."
Of course we don't want lads sent off, their no good to us on the sideline but my point is every team has a few instances over the course of 4 league games where someone should have been sent off and people criticising Limerick should look around at other teams and judge them all the same. We accept in Limerick that as the leading team around at the moment our incidents will be highlighted more but Limerick fans will point out other counties have players who play on the edge as well and occasionally go over the top. Gillane rightfully was sent off v Clare but 5 minutes before that he was holding his head after clash with Cleary and he got booked for that. Kingston elbow on Finn was a shocking hit-he could easily have been knocked out but instead people were talking about Flanagan and his red.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 15/03/2022 14:33:21    2405567

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Replying To updwell:  "Of course we don't want lads sent off, their no good to us on the sideline but my point is every team has a few instances over the course of 4 league games where someone should have been sent off and people criticising Limerick should look around at other teams and judge them all the same. We accept in Limerick that as the leading team around at the moment our incidents will be highlighted more but Limerick fans will point out other counties have players who play on the edge as well and occasionally go over the top. Gillane rightfully was sent off v Clare but 5 minutes before that he was holding his head after clash with Cleary and he got booked for that. Kingston elbow on Finn was a shocking hit-he could easily have been knocked out but instead people were talking about Flanagan and his red."
This script has been written before all so many times. If ye can't be beaten on the field of play find some other way to try and drag ye down. It's called selective judgment or selective amnesia.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 15/03/2022 16:05:50    2405586

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "Is that all ye picked up from that post???

I'm not a begrudger or one bit Anti Limerick, ye've been the best team 3 out of the last 4 years, what i'm highlighting is that there seems to be a discipline problem in the squad which i think could be a potential major weakness and if its not looked into could cost ye in a big game.
But the only response i've received here have been deflectory and accusing me of begrudgement instead of actually talking about the issue."
Do You know Larry Ger Loughnane summed up similar carry on well, in relation to much more robust conduct in a Clare/Kilkenny games years ago. When questioned by a 'shocked' reporter about it he simply said 'I often saw more pushing coming out from last Mass in Crusheen'.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 15/03/2022 17:07:25    2405596

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "A few genuine Limerick hurling questions:

1. Is Colin Coughlan the real deal? He was touted as being a superstar? I thought he was a bit mechanical looking in he league.
2. Will Mulcahy start or will he chance Cathal O'Neill?
3. Is there big worries about the form of Lynch, Hegarty, WOD, DOD and Tom Morrissey? Gillane scored a goal v Galway but was poor in other games? Or are they just easing themselves back in? Speaking from a Wexford perspective i was shocked we matched ye physically in Wexford Park as i know our lads were only back training roughly 4-6 weeks at that time with big Covid interruptions.
4. I've said what i've had to say about discipline previously!!!!!!!!

P.S I still think ye are justifiably favourites for the AI. A lot of talk about Waterford and i get it but in reality their panel is almost the same as this time last year when ye destroyed them. De Burca returning is obviously massive but they need forwards more than backs in my opinion and will come up short."
Sorry for my laggardly response.

The present team are built off of the 2014 losing minor and 2015/2017 AI U21 teams. Limerick with Kyle Hayes made the 2016 minor final but we had a definite dip in the production lines out of the academy immediately afterwards which was obscured by the shift of age groups down at that time. The number of Limerick players in the Fitzgibbon cup fell significantly. However there was a bounce back with the minor team taking Munster honors on 2019 and 2020 and the U20 team were competitive against Cork in the U20 Munster final last year. In fact, they were the only U20 team to give Cork any kind of game last year.

The backbone of those teams are Coughlan, O'Neill and Adam English who interestingly all played Freshers hurling for UL this year. They completely dominated that competition. There are a few more reasonable prospects in this group but the three musketeers represent the next generation following behind from the current senior crop.

There's a lot of comment that Coughlan lacks genuine out and out pace. I think there might be a grain of truth in that but I don't see his future as a wing player. To my mind, he has the qualities and attributes to make a very good center back and that's where I see him in the future. He's not a starting candidate for me right now but for 19 years of age - he's gotten a lot of high quality experience already which will stand to him in the long run.

Cathal O'Neill is a exceptional talent. He's from my home club that has never produced a senior hurler but the wait was worth it. He's a tall player with great aerial ability, amazing touch and an enormous scoring range. Again he's just 19 but I think he will start this year as he's got the strength and work rate to do so. He's a very good bet for young player of the year assuming that Limerick get through the round robin.

Adam English might be the best of the lot of them eventually. He's a year younger, bred in the purple of Limerick hurling royalty and has all the attributes of a premium inside forward. He probably won't start games this year but he could finish an awful lot of them. He's point against Clare was the best score of the entire game and showed the craft and skill of a top end corner forward.

I'm intrigued as to how Kiely will pick the team for the first round of the championship. He may depend on experience or he might want to show something new which he can do as he has options.

The 2021 form guide for Limerick is disappointing to-date but I'm fairly confident that the team and particularly the forwards will improve dramatically across the spring.

Dealer (Limerick) - Posts: 835 - 15/03/2022 18:01:23    2405610

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Replying To Canuck:  "This script has been written before all so many times. If ye can't be beaten on the field of play find some other way to try and drag ye down. It's called selective judgment or selective amnesia."
Yeah we are learning that here in Limerick at the moment but it's a bit galling that that loudest critics we seem to have are some Galway and some Wexford fans who have been in the same boat as ourselves for the last 140 years rather than the big 3 who have a bit more class or else have won so much they aren't jealous of us.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 15/03/2022 20:03:36    2405624

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Replying To updwell:  "Yeah we are learning that here in Limerick at the moment but it's a bit galling that that loudest critics we seem to have are some Galway and some Wexford fans who have been in the same boat as ourselves for the last 140 years rather than the big 3 who have a bit more class or else have won so much they aren't jealous of us."
Do you not think though that the cork pundits have been particularly loud about our discipline issues. Donal og on RTE and Mark landers on the irish examiner podcast. It's nearly the top thing on the agenda always with them.
Anyway I think I'd like to see young Adam english given a chance in the corner versus offaly. Great to have the ul freshers win under the belts for a few of our lads. Kyle Hayes would probably need a run out too. I'd love to see hegarty back to his scoring self too.

Mads (Limerick) - Posts: 366 - 16/03/2022 08:05:12    2405631

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Replying To Mads:  "Do you not think though that the cork pundits have been particularly loud about our discipline issues. Donal og on RTE and Mark landers on the irish examiner podcast. It's nearly the top thing on the agenda always with them.
Anyway I think I'd like to see young Adam english given a chance in the corner versus offaly. Great to have the ul freshers win under the belts for a few of our lads. Kyle Hayes would probably need a run out too. I'd love to see hegarty back to his scoring self too."
You forget the most one sided Cork commentator of them all, Donal O'Grady in TG4. Right from the start of this successful run for Limerick he has been highlighting Limericks faults, while, at least to my mind, glossing over those of other teams, especially his own.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 16/03/2022 09:58:43    2405646

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Yeah ye are right about the Cork lads but I think they'll get Limerick at their best on Easter Sunday when a hungry hurt Limerick steps out onto Pairc Ui Chaoimh and we'll find out alot about both teams that day.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 16/03/2022 10:28:24    2405655

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Replying To updwell:  "Yeah we are learning that here in Limerick at the moment but it's a bit galling that that loudest critics we seem to have are some Galway and some Wexford fans who have been in the same boat as ourselves for the last 140 years rather than the big 3 who have a bit more class or else have won so much they aren't jealous of us."
But Updwell, if you actually analyze it, it sort of stands to reason.

See, you had Limerick there, stuck on 7 titles for donkeys year; Wexford getting to within one title of them in 1996, and Galway within two titles in 2017…the next in line.

The reality is, no matter how poorly Cork is faring in modern day hurling, the BIG 3 (all great hurling counties, no matter whether you like them or not) won't be caught; won't be reeled in in any of our lifetimes.

However, "little Limerick" (not my belief) could have been caught. They were there for the taking for years. Your recent spurt now has Limerick with double the amount of titles that Galway has won, and four titles ahead of Wexford. History shows that four titles prove to be about a 66-year-job for Wexford. So, going by that history, a child born today would be drawing the pension by the time that Wexford catch up to Limerick.

And Galway?; well, it's been 138 years since the association started, and 5 titles! No need to expand.

Now, I realize that in Ireland that it's not as much about winning and success as it is over here in sport; we're paid to perform, so we better justify the investment. Titles are just titles; it's the men (and women) who play the game that are the most important aspect of your great games.

HOWEVER, why is there more begrudgery coming from Galway & Wexford (and I'm wide enough to realize that it's just a handful on here, and far from the great Galway & Wexford lads that I'd have a pint and the craic with…very different)?

My assessment is that they have had ample opportunity and many years to be the next in line to the BIG 3, but that now, that aspiration really appears to be but a very distant dream.

Just my tuppence worth.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1912 - 16/03/2022 10:33:49    2405657

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "You forget the most one sided Cork commentator of them all, Donal O'Grady in TG4. Right from the start of this successful run for Limerick he has been highlighting Limericks faults, while, at least to my mind, glossing over those of other teams, especially his own."
Trust me - Cork are absolutely hating what's going on with Limerick right now. They have dominated us for over a century so they're really struggling with the current scenario. The defeat in the All Ireland seriously hurt Cork both because it was Limerick that did it to them and the extent of the famine since they last won an All Ireland. We saw some of that in the league game when they were extremely aggressive. There is definitely a narrative out of Cork about Limerick as a "dirty" team which is simplistic and is conveniently ignoring what's going on in their own back yard. A number of the Cork players in the league match were verging on losing control. I won't start naming Cork players that deserve to get red cards but I think that by the time that we get to championship, I'm sure that Limerick will have defined the root cause of their discipline issues and will have addressed them. Cork, however look to be going the other way because they want to stand up to Limerick and they're looking for the fight. These teams don't like each other and a lot of it even dates back to the 2018 All Ireland semifinal and the Boston exhibition later that year.

I won't be surprised if Cork have discipline issues on April 17th based on what I saw in the league match. Cork's media personalities are very focused from their pedestals on Limerick's indiscretions as opposed to the developing tendencies among their own ranks which I'm hoping to see back-fire in championship 2022.

Dealer (Limerick) - Posts: 835 - 16/03/2022 10:43:54    2405661

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "But Updwell, if you actually analyze it, it sort of stands to reason.

See, you had Limerick there, stuck on 7 titles for donkeys year; Wexford getting to within one title of them in 1996, and Galway within two titles in 2017…the next in line.

The reality is, no matter how poorly Cork is faring in modern day hurling, the BIG 3 (all great hurling counties, no matter whether you like them or not) won't be caught; won't be reeled in in any of our lifetimes.

However, "little Limerick" (not my belief) could have been caught. They were there for the taking for years. Your recent spurt now has Limerick with double the amount of titles that Galway has won, and four titles ahead of Wexford. History shows that four titles prove to be about a 66-year-job for Wexford. So, going by that history, a child born today would be drawing the pension by the time that Wexford catch up to Limerick.

And Galway?; well, it's been 138 years since the association started, and 5 titles! No need to expand.

Now, I realize that in Ireland that it's not as much about winning and success as it is over here in sport; we're paid to perform, so we better justify the investment. Titles are just titles; it's the men (and women) who play the game that are the most important aspect of your great games.

HOWEVER, why is there more begrudgery coming from Galway & Wexford (and I'm wide enough to realize that it's just a handful on here, and far from the great Galway & Wexford lads that I'd have a pint and the craic with…very different)?

My assessment is that they have had ample opportunity and many years to be the next in line to the BIG 3, but that now, that aspiration really appears to be but a very distant dream.

Just my tuppence worth."
I think for counties outside the big 3 alot depends on getting a particularly talented and dedicated group of hurlers all at the same time. Hurling is an amateur sport so counties cant just go out and sign good players. Limerick have their 1st such group since the 30s though the 70s team might have won more. Wexford had 2 in the 50s and 60s and were probably unlucky in the 70s as Cork and Kilkenny both had great teams. Galway did in the 80s. Clare did in the 90s as did Offaly. Noone knows right now that 1 of the above counties or Waterford or Dublin wont have such a generation of hurlers in the late 2020s. In 2010 no1 predicted that Limerick would win 3 all Irelands in 4 years in the next 11 years. That's the reality whatever the begrudgers might think.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 16/03/2022 11:06:03    2405670

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Replying To Dealer:  "Trust me - Cork are absolutely hating what's going on with Limerick right now. They have dominated us for over a century so they're really struggling with the current scenario. The defeat in the All Ireland seriously hurt Cork both because it was Limerick that did it to them and the extent of the famine since they last won an All Ireland. We saw some of that in the league game when they were extremely aggressive. There is definitely a narrative out of Cork about Limerick as a "dirty" team which is simplistic and is conveniently ignoring what's going on in their own back yard. A number of the Cork players in the league match were verging on losing control. I won't start naming Cork players that deserve to get red cards but I think that by the time that we get to championship, I'm sure that Limerick will have defined the root cause of their discipline issues and will have addressed them. Cork, however look to be going the other way because they want to stand up to Limerick and they're looking for the fight. These teams don't like each other and a lot of it even dates back to the 2018 All Ireland semifinal and the Boston exhibition later that year.

I won't be surprised if Cork have discipline issues on April 17th based on what I saw in the league match. Cork's media personalities are very focused from their pedestals on Limerick's indiscretions as opposed to the developing tendencies among their own ranks which I'm hoping to see back-fire in championship 2022."
I'd agree with a lot of what you say. And, I strongly believe that Cork's sole road to redemption is to win McCarthy this year; 17 years without it, and reverting to very unlike Cork methods (that blow by Kingston on Finn was scurrilous, as bad as I've seen on a hurling or football field) leave Cork with very few other option but victory.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1912 - 16/03/2022 11:28:25    2405677

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Replying To Dealer:  "Sorry for my laggardly response.

The present team are built off of the 2014 losing minor and 2015/2017 AI U21 teams. Limerick with Kyle Hayes made the 2016 minor final but we had a definite dip in the production lines out of the academy immediately afterwards which was obscured by the shift of age groups down at that time. The number of Limerick players in the Fitzgibbon cup fell significantly. However there was a bounce back with the minor team taking Munster honors on 2019 and 2020 and the U20 team were competitive against Cork in the U20 Munster final last year. In fact, they were the only U20 team to give Cork any kind of game last year.

The backbone of those teams are Coughlan, O'Neill and Adam English who interestingly all played Freshers hurling for UL this year. They completely dominated that competition. There are a few more reasonable prospects in this group but the three musketeers represent the next generation following behind from the current senior crop.

There's a lot of comment that Coughlan lacks genuine out and out pace. I think there might be a grain of truth in that but I don't see his future as a wing player. To my mind, he has the qualities and attributes to make a very good center back and that's where I see him in the future. He's not a starting candidate for me right now but for 19 years of age - he's gotten a lot of high quality experience already which will stand to him in the long run.

Cathal O'Neill is a exceptional talent. He's from my home club that has never produced a senior hurler but the wait was worth it. He's a tall player with great aerial ability, amazing touch and an enormous scoring range. Again he's just 19 but I think he will start this year as he's got the strength and work rate to do so. He's a very good bet for young player of the year assuming that Limerick get through the round robin.

Adam English might be the best of the lot of them eventually. He's a year younger, bred in the purple of Limerick hurling royalty and has all the attributes of a premium inside forward. He probably won't start games this year but he could finish an awful lot of them. He's point against Clare was the best score of the entire game and showed the craft and skill of a top end corner forward.

I'm intrigued as to how Kiely will pick the team for the first round of the championship. He may depend on experience or he might want to show something new which he can do as he has options.

The 2021 form guide for Limerick is disappointing to-date but I'm fairly confident that the team and particularly the forwards will improve dramatically across the spring."
I think Fitzgibbon Cup is a huge indicator for a county's strength in depth. its between senior inter county and u/20 level standard wise and if a fella is performing well in the Fitzgibbon its a very good sign.
O'Neill and Coughlan are very young in fairness. O'Neill strikes me as Cathal Mannion type hurler but he's taking his time to find his feet. I agree if he gets his confidence levels up he could be a very good shout for YPOY.
I admit i know little to nothing about English but the talk about him is that he's a generational talent.

LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 409 - 16/03/2022 12:05:55    2405690

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think for counties outside the big 3 alot depends on getting a particularly talented and dedicated group of hurlers all at the same time. Hurling is an amateur sport so counties cant just go out and sign good players. Limerick have their 1st such group since the 30s though the 70s team might have won more. Wexford had 2 in the 50s and 60s and were probably unlucky in the 70s as Cork and Kilkenny both had great teams. Galway did in the 80s. Clare did in the 90s as did Offaly. Noone knows right now that 1 of the above counties or Waterford or Dublin wont have such a generation of hurlers in the late 2020s. In 2010 no1 predicted that Limerick would win 3 all Irelands in 4 years in the next 11 years. That's the reality whatever the begrudgers might think."
Of course, nobody can tell the future. That's an obvious and easy angle to take. My 5-year-old granddaughter could make that case.

However, history and the figures don't lie, irrespective of what the begrudgers know, never mind an iota even of what those same begrudgers think.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1912 - 16/03/2022 13:06:14    2405706

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Best of luck to the hurlers..great to see mike Casey back,huge addition to panel after 2 years out..a worry for me,no Kyle Hayes again..very little hurling 4 weeks from championship..get a win tomorrow and then kick on..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2217 - 19/03/2022 11:01:21    2405798

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