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Replying To ahsure.: "No doubt Jim is a brilliant manager, if he was from a different county with more talented resources at his disposal he would have racked up multiple
All Ireland by now as manager. I guess you can't choose your county." Which members of the Donegal team would you say are not talented.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1186 - 30/07/2025 11:52:47
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Someone mentioned earlier that McBrearty was dropped for the 14 final for O'Connor. My memeory might be going, but wasn't McBrearty an impact sub for most of the year and it was someone else who was dropped?
ThroughTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 83 - 30/07/2025 11:57:52
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Replying To Commodore: "Yeah, same with Pauric Joyce." Would take Jim in Galway any day, we would have an AI or two by now.
ahsure. (Galway) - Posts: 1744 - 30/07/2025 12:19:58
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Just watched the match back and as we all know the game was lost in the first quarter.Kerry attacked the game with intensity,ruggedness and aggression while we were obviously inhibited by nerves making us very flat footed and stand offish .We were completely cleaned out of it in the air and on breaking ball.I accept that there is a fair element of luck with breaking ball,days it goes for you and days it goes against you.Our big tall players who you would expect to win more ball were just non existent in the first 20 minutes but after that we started to play a bit better getting 4 points on the bounce.Our forwards were playing well with limited supply.It has been well documented that a lot of Kerrys scores were from our errors.Despite everything after 58 minutes we had put the ball over the bar the same number of times as kerry i.e. 18 each.It was at that time Kerry got another 2 point free to put them 6 up and that was crucial.We kept plugging away but it becomes a bit desperate then and not very cohesive and bad decisions creep in.A lot of people are giving out about the Zonal defense but that had absolutely nothing to do with our defeat as kerry never had a sniff at goal but our only attempt at man marking on Clifford went very badly.When a man puts the ball over the bar 6 times from play regardless of how good he is that is serious..
If you were to name one thing that went wrong it would be that we were way behind Kerry in intensity and aggression not to mention that they always leave something on you in the tackle.I would say nerves played a big part and not starting Hughie seemed strange.Taking off Oisin was also a strange one but I suppose if Paddy had made a big impact it would have been different.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1186 - 30/07/2025 12:36:39
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Replying To rorysboys: "Wasn't the only mistake made on the day lad. Kerry win in 2014 simple as. A lot of finals are win by simple mistakes. Kerry had there homework done in 14 they completely nullified murphy. On Sunday they saw a weakness in our defence and they exploited it by running strong at us. I believe jim will stay on hopefully he does. He'll not want to go after last Sunday. Kerry will be on his radar for next year ." I agree and something that I've never understood is that Kerry teams are always dismissed tactically. The national media and the lay supporter would have you believe that Kerry go out with no strategy and just tell 15 wonderful players to go out and have fun. Their preparations are as thorough as anyone else's. O'Mahony didn't stop Murphy in 2014 because he's a brilliant player, he stopped him in 2014 because he's a brilliant player and had his homework done.
There is no more extreme example of this narrative than this year. Armagh and ourselves have strong panels and are often credited as tactically astute and yet we both lost the games largely off the back of 10 minutes where Kerry hammered our weakness and we were too slow to adjust. Durcans kickout and McFadden hitting the post are two incidents but if it wasn't them incidents then who is to say it wouldn't have been something else.
papa_pump (Donegal) - Posts: 87 - 30/07/2025 13:48:16
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Replying To ahsure.: "Would take Jim in Galway any day, we would have an AI or two by now." Galway have an amazing side, you have quality players in most of the key positions, I think you were just caught cold against Meath. You will be back in the All Ireland running next season.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1448 - 30/07/2025 14:37:56
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This is going to be a very unpopular opinion...I think McGuinness is a great manager and has brought so much joy to the county over the years and I must stress I'm no expert!!! But I can help but thinking with McG is it short term gain for long term pain. I don't know how to phrase it but I will try... McGuinness is involved in a lot of the managing / coaching (could it be classes as micromanaging - which isnt great in any context as it give this impression that you can't be trusted to undertake a task on your own) that I think the players can be automonous. This is good when its going well but very bad when it doesn't. Take for example on Sunday - the kickouts being dropped on Joe O'Connor could someone not of taken the initiative on the pitch and said this ain't working?! Likewise, Clifford having all the time on the ball someone take it by the scruff an so something about it (I know about tactics and space being created inside and that - but I'm thinking high level stuff at the minute). Not taking two pointers as another example. I'm not getting at the players or management, but I think the players should be allowed to make more decisions in realtime and not stuck to a 'system'.... I remember Jim Gavin saying once this is all player lead and we just facilitate it (I know he is a shroud operator as well so could be taken as a pinch of salt). Another thing Clifford said we are allowed to do what we want up front (obviously they have the quality to do that), Cian O'Neill said Jack let's them do what they have to do coaching wise... Anyway long winded post but we seen what happen in 2014 when McG left, will the same happen this year (or next year) when he goes and a few retirements also. As someone else stated I think this year was the year we win or it's bust. I cant see us coming back as strong next year...Should we be concentrating on the long term not the short, how do change the shift in focus from systems etc....
My thoughts would be for the future would be to have a manager to over see everything, with top Donegal coaches and a coach from outside the county for a different perspective (I'm tipping Philly McMahon to do top stuff wherever he ends up). My only fear with coaches from the inside is their tutelage under McG and would there be systems etc. and the same school or thought etc.
We also need to have a championship or similar comp like they have in Kerry for Junior and Intermediate to expose them to senior football. This would drive players on in this grade and also has the potential to unearth more players in addition to the academy.
As I said Im no expert and my thoughts are all high level stuff...I would love to hear opinions, and this is not a post to give out about anyone, just generally interested and passionate about Donegal GAA.
Mousie34 (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 30/07/2025 15:35:52
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Yeah, the Kerry championship is one to look at and see if we could do something similar in Donegal.
ThroughTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 83 - 30/07/2025 15:48:42
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Just on that point, are we guilty of maybe playing too many "footballers" at the back. I would only really categorise McCole as an out-and-out defender. Easy to say now I know, but do we need another tiger or two at the back, especially against better teams?" Finbar is the best tackler in the team. He certainly has the most turnovers.
Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 727 - 30/07/2025 15:50:33
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Replying To Mousie34: "This is going to be a very unpopular opinion...I think McGuinness is a great manager and has brought so much joy to the county over the years and I must stress I'm no expert!!! But I can help but thinking with McG is it short term gain for long term pain. I don't know how to phrase it but I will try... McGuinness is involved in a lot of the managing / coaching (could it be classes as micromanaging - which isnt great in any context as it give this impression that you can't be trusted to undertake a task on your own) that I think the players can be automonous. This is good when its going well but very bad when it doesn't. Take for example on Sunday - the kickouts being dropped on Joe O'Connor could someone not of taken the initiative on the pitch and said this ain't working?! Likewise, Clifford having all the time on the ball someone take it by the scruff an so something about it (I know about tactics and space being created inside and that - but I'm thinking high level stuff at the minute). Not taking two pointers as another example. I'm not getting at the players or management, but I think the players should be allowed to make more decisions in realtime and not stuck to a 'system'.... I remember Jim Gavin saying once this is all player lead and we just facilitate it (I know he is a shroud operator as well so could be taken as a pinch of salt). Another thing Clifford said we are allowed to do what we want up front (obviously they have the quality to do that), Cian O'Neill said Jack let's them do what they have to do coaching wise... Anyway long winded post but we seen what happen in 2014 when McG left, will the same happen this year (or next year) when he goes and a few retirements also. As someone else stated I think this year was the year we win or it's bust. I cant see us coming back as strong next year...Should we be concentrating on the long term not the short, how do change the shift in focus from systems etc....
My thoughts would be for the future would be to have a manager to over see everything, with top Donegal coaches and a coach from outside the county for a different perspective (I'm tipping Philly McMahon to do top stuff wherever he ends up). My only fear with coaches from the inside is their tutelage under McG and would there be systems etc. and the same school or thought etc.
We also need to have a championship or similar comp like they have in Kerry for Junior and Intermediate to expose them to senior football. This would drive players on in this grade and also has the potential to unearth more players in addition to the academy.
As I said Im no expert and my thoughts are all high level stuff...I would love to hear opinions, and this is not a post to give out about anyone, just generally interested and passionate about Donegal GAA." I think we have a long term plan in place with Karl Lacey in place as Head of the Academy System, and Damien Diver as the Coaching Officer. The future is their portfolio.
Jim is the best man for the here and now, and if the Academy system delivers, then he will have the quality of player to compete at the top every year. My hope is that Jim will stay for many years to come.
I do think that the Kerry Model County Championship is worth exploring. Its been debated here previously. I personally think it could work well.
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 862 - 30/07/2025 16:00:33
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Replying To kiloughter: "Ah come on now. Our victory last year in the semi final was merited. Agreed it could have gone either way but this notion that we were lucky is exaggerated. We certainly lost any luck we had in the final as with our 3 best players carrying knocks and missing routine frees we still only lost by a point. Am still burnt from last year. From a Donegal perspective 2014 was worse in that they could have won that final. Sunday was one way traffic for large parts. To Donegal folk what will define Sunday is how ye do in 2026. That is my feeling anyhow because of how we ended up this year. I pray Kerry don't dominate from here as different champions make the overall spectacle more attractive." I never said our victory wasn't merited, I was saying Donegal COULD have beaten us and gone on to win it out.
Nor did I say we were lucky, I said our goal (one score) was fortuitous.
Anyway, we can discuss that on the Galway thread. Will leave the Donegal folk be....
streaker (Galway) - Posts: 548 - 30/07/2025 16:02:13
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Replying To Mousie34: "This is going to be a very unpopular opinion...I think McGuinness is a great manager and has brought so much joy to the county over the years and I must stress I'm no expert!!! But I can help but thinking with McG is it short term gain for long term pain. I don't know how to phrase it but I will try... McGuinness is involved in a lot of the managing / coaching (could it be classes as micromanaging - which isnt great in any context as it give this impression that you can't be trusted to undertake a task on your own) that I think the players can be automonous. This is good when its going well but very bad when it doesn't. Take for example on Sunday - the kickouts being dropped on Joe O'Connor could someone not of taken the initiative on the pitch and said this ain't working?! Likewise, Clifford having all the time on the ball someone take it by the scruff an so something about it (I know about tactics and space being created inside and that - but I'm thinking high level stuff at the minute). Not taking two pointers as another example. I'm not getting at the players or management, but I think the players should be allowed to make more decisions in realtime and not stuck to a 'system'.... I remember Jim Gavin saying once this is all player lead and we just facilitate it (I know he is a shroud operator as well so could be taken as a pinch of salt). Another thing Clifford said we are allowed to do what we want up front (obviously they have the quality to do that), Cian O'Neill said Jack let's them do what they have to do coaching wise... Anyway long winded post but we seen what happen in 2014 when McG left, will the same happen this year (or next year) when he goes and a few retirements also. As someone else stated I think this year was the year we win or it's bust. I cant see us coming back as strong next year...Should we be concentrating on the long term not the short, how do change the shift in focus from systems etc....
My thoughts would be for the future would be to have a manager to over see everything, with top Donegal coaches and a coach from outside the county for a different perspective (I'm tipping Philly McMahon to do top stuff wherever he ends up). My only fear with coaches from the inside is their tutelage under McG and would there be systems etc. and the same school or thought etc.
We also need to have a championship or similar comp like they have in Kerry for Junior and Intermediate to expose them to senior football. This would drive players on in this grade and also has the potential to unearth more players in addition to the academy.
As I said Im no expert and my thoughts are all high level stuff...I would love to hear opinions, and this is not a post to give out about anyone, just generally interested and passionate about Donegal GAA." I would agree with you on the club championships I think we need to look at Kerry's format.
Kerry are the model county generally in how they do things anyway so I've no issue with taking ideas and formats and processes from the Kingdom and applying them to our setups.
I can see what you mean about Jim, I think the issue in Donegal is a lack of underage success generally so players tend to be very talented but have not won a lot. Jim seems to instil a big belief in players that they maybe haven't carried from underage.
I still think the talent in Donegal is brilliant I don't buy comments like Oisín McConville earlier this week saying Donegal were bang average talent wise before Jim. I think talent wise we were good enough for anyone (as shown in our run in 2003) but it was belief and discipline that often let us down.
At the same time it is fair to look at our history, Donegal have only ever contested 4 senior men's All-Ireland finals, we have been in very few underage finals beyond Ulster and not getting past great Tyrone, Derry and Cavan teams in recent years. It's also fair to say that a few short years ago it wasn't only on the pitch that things were looking grim in Donegal, so things can flip very quickly both positively and negatively.
The academy system is obviously an attempt to generate a bit of a production line in Donegal but we don't want homogenous players either. However if a player like Roarty can be produced I am hopeful for the future without a doubt.
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 269 - 30/07/2025 16:23:03
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Replying To Mousie34: "This is going to be a very unpopular opinion...I think McGuinness is a great manager and has brought so much joy to the county over the years and I must stress I'm no expert!!! But I can help but thinking with McG is it short term gain for long term pain. I don't know how to phrase it but I will try... McGuinness is involved in a lot of the managing / coaching (could it be classes as micromanaging - which isnt great in any context as it give this impression that you can't be trusted to undertake a task on your own) that I think the players can be automonous. This is good when its going well but very bad when it doesn't. Take for example on Sunday - the kickouts being dropped on Joe O'Connor could someone not of taken the initiative on the pitch and said this ain't working?! Likewise, Clifford having all the time on the ball someone take it by the scruff an so something about it (I know about tactics and space being created inside and that - but I'm thinking high level stuff at the minute). Not taking two pointers as another example. I'm not getting at the players or management, but I think the players should be allowed to make more decisions in realtime and not stuck to a 'system'.... I remember Jim Gavin saying once this is all player lead and we just facilitate it (I know he is a shroud operator as well so could be taken as a pinch of salt). Another thing Clifford said we are allowed to do what we want up front (obviously they have the quality to do that), Cian O'Neill said Jack let's them do what they have to do coaching wise... Anyway long winded post but we seen what happen in 2014 when McG left, will the same happen this year (or next year) when he goes and a few retirements also. As someone else stated I think this year was the year we win or it's bust. I cant see us coming back as strong next year...Should we be concentrating on the long term not the short, how do change the shift in focus from systems etc....
My thoughts would be for the future would be to have a manager to over see everything, with top Donegal coaches and a coach from outside the county for a different perspective (I'm tipping Philly McMahon to do top stuff wherever he ends up). My only fear with coaches from the inside is their tutelage under McG and would there be systems etc. and the same school or thought etc.
We also need to have a championship or similar comp like they have in Kerry for Junior and Intermediate to expose them to senior football. This would drive players on in this grade and also has the potential to unearth more players in addition to the academy.
As I said Im no expert and my thoughts are all high level stuff...I would love to hear opinions, and this is not a post to give out about anyone, just generally interested and passionate about Donegal GAA." Excellent post you have alot of very good points which are hard to argue with. Nice having a new poster with different views.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2658 - 30/07/2025 16:29:14
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Replying To Scenicparish: "Finbar is the best tackler in the team. He certainly has the most turnovers." Yeah you're right. He will only get better as he gains more experience. A real prodigy.
But say last Sunday, would we have been better sending in a "spoiler" on Paudie? Someone like Odhran or even Stephen McMenamin?
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9954 - 30/07/2025 16:32:01
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Yeah you're right. He will only get better as he gains more experience. A real prodigy.
But say last Sunday, would we have been better sending in a "spoiler" on Paudie? Someone like Odhran or even Stephen McMenamin?" I thought at the outset of the championship that we would need more of those kind of defenders. But as the year went on the zonal system seemed to be really working for us. I think hindsight is 20/20 on this. But you might well see Jim try a different tack next year.
Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 335 - 30/07/2025 16:40:11
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Replying To Scenicparish: "Finbar is the best tackler in the team. He certainly has the most turnovers." I think that's an exaggeration. As excellent as he is, he's committed more fouls than he has created turnovers from tackles.
McCole, Moore, McFadden, Mogan have won as many tackles. Looking at the bench Curran, McGettigan, McMeniman would be just as effective in the tackle. Of course, turnovers from tackles are not his only selling point. Sky's the limit for him, but let's not pretend he's the complete package yet.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 492 - 30/07/2025 17:18:18
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Just on that point, are we guilty of maybe playing too many "footballers" at the back. I would only really categorise McCole as an out-and-out defender. Easy to say now I know, but do we need another tiger or two at the back, especially against better teams?" Totally agree. Have been banging this drum for the entire season on here. In two seasons Jim hasn't lost a Championship game where he played one of Curran or McMeniman.
SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 492 - 30/07/2025 17:22:07
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Replying To Mousie34: "This is going to be a very unpopular opinion...I think McGuinness is a great manager and has brought so much joy to the county over the years and I must stress I'm no expert!!! But I can help but thinking with McG is it short term gain for long term pain. I don't know how to phrase it but I will try... McGuinness is involved in a lot of the managing / coaching (could it be classes as micromanaging - which isnt great in any context as it give this impression that you can't be trusted to undertake a task on your own) that I think the players can be automonous. This is good when its going well but very bad when it doesn't. Take for example on Sunday - the kickouts being dropped on Joe O'Connor could someone not of taken the initiative on the pitch and said this ain't working?! Likewise, Clifford having all the time on the ball someone take it by the scruff an so something about it (I know about tactics and space being created inside and that - but I'm thinking high level stuff at the minute). Not taking two pointers as another example. I'm not getting at the players or management, but I think the players should be allowed to make more decisions in realtime and not stuck to a 'system'.... I remember Jim Gavin saying once this is all player lead and we just facilitate it (I know he is a shroud operator as well so could be taken as a pinch of salt). Another thing Clifford said we are allowed to do what we want up front (obviously they have the quality to do that), Cian O'Neill said Jack let's them do what they have to do coaching wise... Anyway long winded post but we seen what happen in 2014 when McG left, will the same happen this year (or next year) when he goes and a few retirements also. As someone else stated I think this year was the year we win or it's bust. I cant see us coming back as strong next year...Should we be concentrating on the long term not the short, how do change the shift in focus from systems etc....
My thoughts would be for the future would be to have a manager to over see everything, with top Donegal coaches and a coach from outside the county for a different perspective (I'm tipping Philly McMahon to do top stuff wherever he ends up). My only fear with coaches from the inside is their tutelage under McG and would there be systems etc. and the same school or thought etc.
We also need to have a championship or similar comp like they have in Kerry for Junior and Intermediate to expose them to senior football. This would drive players on in this grade and also has the potential to unearth more players in addition to the academy.
As I said Im no expert and my thoughts are all high level stuff...I would love to hear opinions, and this is not a post to give out about anyone, just generally interested and passionate about Donegal GAA." I do think some outside ideas from a top coach would be welcome, simply to just challenge Jim and help him innovate.
I know that went wrong before. But it also helped us win an All Ireland initially.
Id just be worried that all Jim's coaching staff have played under him and maybe an outside voice he can work with is what's needed.
But I also don't know the dynamic. And I know Jim has no problem with shaking things up.
Just with the Cian O'Neill example alone.
He's been involved in the two teams who knocked us out in the last two years.
Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 335 - 30/07/2025 17:30:30
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Replying To Al_Maguire: "I do think some outside ideas from a top coach would be welcome, simply to just challenge Jim and help him innovate.
I know that went wrong before. But it also helped us win an All Ireland initially.
Id just be worried that all Jim's coaching staff have played under him and maybe an outside voice he can work with is what's needed.
But I also don't know the dynamic. And I know Jim has no problem with shaking things up.
Just with the Cian O'Neill example alone.
He's been involved in the two teams who knocked us out in the last two years." Paddy Tally is free currently... and has an All Ireland win on his CV from 2 years ago...
peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1299 - 30/07/2025 17:57:40
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Replying To SurelyToGod: "I think that's an exaggeration. As excellent as he is, he's committed more fouls than he has created turnovers from tackles.
McCole, Moore, McFadden, Mogan have won as many tackles. Looking at the bench Curran, McGettigan, McMeniman would be just as effective in the tackle. Of course, turnovers from tackles are not his only selling point. Sky's the limit for him, but let's not pretend he's the complete package yet." 3 AFL clubs seem to think different. Monitoring him since last year and seem to be going after him now!
Whyme923 (Donegal) - Posts: 53 - 30/07/2025 18:24:23
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