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Replying To lugdrum: "If you take the time to re read my post I have not blamed the current players or management for this. They are doing the very best they can. I am laying blame at the lack of coaching structures for years. I admire you for sticking up for them but surely you even see the wood from the trees and know that something has to Change. We can't change the players I would say bar a very small few the best players are playing with Leitrim. Andy will prob step away at the end of the season but until there is a complete overhaul in the running of the county board in all aspects particularly in coaching we will be going no where" I would blame the management. We have a good team, we have lads that can take scores from play, Rooney got 4 yesterday, Mark Plunkett got 3 points, Pierce Dolan, Ryan O Rourke, Paul Keaney all well fit to take scores and when ever we play fast direct football we open teams up and get scores. Its this septic defensive drivel that the coaches have them playing, all our 15 players inside our own half when we dont have the ball, then when we have it possesion based muck over and back the defense, horrible to watch and id say worse to play. Wrynn is in the team, im guessing because he is tall yet we dont leave him midfield, he is either in full forward or back to take a short kick out which cost us 1-1 against Carlow.
Looking back we beat a poor waterford team, only for Darragh Rooney taking on a few scores we would have struggled against London and Ryan O Rourkes hatrick got us over the line against wexford, not to mention the lucky last minute penalty. When we play fast attacking football we were well capable of beating carlow or longford, neither of them were that good but we are missing a good man marking defender like Paddy Maguire, would have been handy on the no. 15 yesterday.
Anyway, promotion is gone for another year, Andy has to go, we took a gamble on him but he should have been ran after the New York game. The cost of the current set up must be massive, Mickey Graham would probably be a better manager next year as long as he moves away from the puke defensive system we are currently using.
I also think we are not fit enough, lads seem dead on their feet very early on in the games and Jack Foley, Tom Prior and Cathal Mc Hugh are grand lads for the future but not near the level physically yet.
Will be interesting to see where Andy Moran goes from here, cant see any other county taking him and doubt there will be a long list of clubs looking for him either.
harleys (Leitrim) - Posts: 306 - 04/03/2024 17:16:59
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Replying To 3rdmidfielder: "Hopefully the next man has more experience than a year managing his own club and a podcast." The next man already there, Mickey Graham who should have been named the Leitrim manager instead of a coach. Andy Moran time was up after last year it was poor by the county board to allow him have another year.
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3347 - 04/03/2024 17:46:10
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Replying To harleys: "I would blame the management. We have a good team, we have lads that can take scores from play, Rooney got 4 yesterday, Mark Plunkett got 3 points, Pierce Dolan, Ryan O Rourke, Paul Keaney all well fit to take scores and when ever we play fast direct football we open teams up and get scores. Its this septic defensive drivel that the coaches have them playing, all our 15 players inside our own half when we dont have the ball, then when we have it possesion based muck over and back the defense, horrible to watch and id say worse to play. Wrynn is in the team, im guessing because he is tall yet we dont leave him midfield, he is either in full forward or back to take a short kick out which cost us 1-1 against Carlow.
Looking back we beat a poor waterford team, only for Darragh Rooney taking on a few scores we would have struggled against London and Ryan O Rourkes hatrick got us over the line against wexford, not to mention the lucky last minute penalty. When we play fast attacking football we were well capable of beating carlow or longford, neither of them were that good but we are missing a good man marking defender like Paddy Maguire, would have been handy on the no. 15 yesterday.
Anyway, promotion is gone for another year, Andy has to go, we took a gamble on him but he should have been ran after the New York game. The cost of the current set up must be massive, Mickey Graham would probably be a better manager next year as long as he moves away from the puke defensive system we are currently using.
I also think we are not fit enough, lads seem dead on their feet very early on in the games and Jack Foley, Tom Prior and Cathal Mc Hugh are grand lads for the future but not near the level physically yet.
Will be interesting to see where Andy Moran goes from here, cant see any other county taking him and doubt there will be a long list of clubs looking for him either." I wouldn't blame management. Look IMO our players seem great and we see them in the Leitrim club championship and they are great in that, but outside of that they are average.
Our defenders are deplorable- one thing Leitrim had when I was younger was great defenders McGuinness, McKeoen, Reynolds, Quinn, Regan, Foley etc.. the defenders available now are of such a low standard.
Our midfield is average - Carroll and McCloskey would dominate them back in their day.
Our forwards are are good and are our best line by far. But Keith was banging over 9 or 10 points a game in the last few years now this is gone. He was our one top top class player and he is gone and the others cannot replicate what he done.
If Keith was there we may well be in the promotion mix- but he is not.
Every other inter county manager has a range of players to pick from and then mould ,that are capable of playing at a high standard. Andy has players to pick from that are such a low standard. I honestly think that Jim Gavin in his pomp couldn't do better with our players.
Look if Andy was managing Mayo he'd be motoring fine.
When was the last time a Leitrim team won a game in the Connacht club champ or reached a final in any grade? Have we ever won a title at any grade of club championship? I'll save you looking - no- and we are the only county never to have won one.
Roscommon won senior and intermediate last year- what division do they play in? Mayo won junior - what division do they play in?
The standard of player available to the inter county manager is good in Leitrim club levels- but doesn't hold up once it's exposed outside of that
leitrim4sam (Leitrim) - Posts: 644 - 04/03/2024 18:15:45
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Replying To leitrim4sam: "I wouldn't blame management. Look IMO our players seem great and we see them in the Leitrim club championship and they are great in that, but outside of that they are average.
Our defenders are deplorable- one thing Leitrim had when I was younger was great defenders McGuinness, McKeoen, Reynolds, Quinn, Regan, Foley etc.. the defenders available now are of such a low standard.
Our midfield is average - Carroll and McCloskey would dominate them back in their day.
Our forwards are are good and are our best line by far. But Keith was banging over 9 or 10 points a game in the last few years now this is gone. He was our one top top class player and he is gone and the others cannot replicate what he done.
If Keith was there we may well be in the promotion mix- but he is not.
Every other inter county manager has a range of players to pick from and then mould ,that are capable of playing at a high standard. Andy has players to pick from that are such a low standard. I honestly think that Jim Gavin in his pomp couldn't do better with our players.
Look if Andy was managing Mayo he'd be motoring fine.
When was the last time a Leitrim team won a game in the Connacht club champ or reached a final in any grade? Have we ever won a title at any grade of club championship? I'll save you looking - no- and we are the only county never to have won one.
Roscommon won senior and intermediate last year- what division do they play in? Mayo won junior - what division do they play in?
The standard of player available to the inter county manager is good in Leitrim club levels- but doesn't hold up once it's exposed outside of that" I agree with some of your points, our defenders are very poor and mc closkey and carrol aka the twin towers would eat our current midfield for breakfast but I disagree with you letting the management off so easy. Look at the difference in Donegal this year from last year more or less the same players with a different manager. Our players are good enough to get promoted under a good manager, hyland achieved it and I think terry hyland would have got this current team up this season. Keith is a loss but not as much as some people say on here, yes he got a lot of scores every game but most were frees.
We also have a loosing culture that's bred into us, players and supporters, we just accept defeat, go out on the pitch and say hard luck lads maybe next time... we need to expect better, demand better and when they are playing sh1t let them know it!!
harleys (Leitrim) - Posts: 306 - 04/03/2024 20:58:58
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Replying To harleys: "I would blame the management. We have a good team, we have lads that can take scores from play, Rooney got 4 yesterday, Mark Plunkett got 3 points, Pierce Dolan, Ryan O Rourke, Paul Keaney all well fit to take scores and when ever we play fast direct football we open teams up and get scores. Its this septic defensive drivel that the coaches have them playing, all our 15 players inside our own half when we dont have the ball, then when we have it possesion based muck over and back the defense, horrible to watch and id say worse to play. Wrynn is in the team, im guessing because he is tall yet we dont leave him midfield, he is either in full forward or back to take a short kick out which cost us 1-1 against Carlow.
Looking back we beat a poor waterford team, only for Darragh Rooney taking on a few scores we would have struggled against London and Ryan O Rourkes hatrick got us over the line against wexford, not to mention the lucky last minute penalty. When we play fast attacking football we were well capable of beating carlow or longford, neither of them were that good but we are missing a good man marking defender like Paddy Maguire, would have been handy on the no. 15 yesterday.
Anyway, promotion is gone for another year, Andy has to go, we took a gamble on him but he should have been ran after the New York game. The cost of the current set up must be massive, Mickey Graham would probably be a better manager next year as long as he moves away from the puke defensive system we are currently using.
I also think we are not fit enough, lads seem dead on their feet very early on in the games and Jack Foley, Tom Prior and Cathal Mc Hugh are grand lads for the future but not near the level physically yet.
Will be interesting to see where Andy Moran goes from here, cant see any other county taking him and doubt there will be a long list of clubs looking for him either." Ye haven't beaten Longford in god knows how long. You're on about playing this and playing that and if this lad was there yesterday we would be beating the likes of Longford. You do realise Longford were missing half a team and still beat ye well?!!!
Oddball (Roscommon) - Posts: 888 - 04/03/2024 21:13:00
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Replying To harleys: "I agree with some of your points, our defenders are very poor and mc closkey and carrol aka the twin towers would eat our current midfield for breakfast but I disagree with you letting the management off so easy. Look at the difference in Donegal this year from last year more or less the same players with a different manager. Our players are good enough to get promoted under a good manager, hyland achieved it and I think terry hyland would have got this current team up this season. Keith is a loss but not as much as some people say on here, yes he got a lot of scores every game but most were frees.
We also have a loosing culture that's bred into us, players and supporters, we just accept defeat, go out on the pitch and say hard luck lads maybe next time... we need to expect better, demand better and when they are playing sh1t let them know it!!" Good post. And I'd agree with some of the previous points also. Defence and midfield is an issue but if that's the case go defensive, any team that runs at us gets joy, we are conceding too much. And I agree an experienced manager gets this team promoted.
3rdmidfielder (Australia) - Posts: 294 - 04/03/2024 21:27:56
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I've said it a few months ago and I'll say it again. Were after losing 3 years and how many 100thousands on this senior team. This money and time should be put back into the underage and build proper players for the future. This team has ran its course and has flatlined now. Yeah we've one high quality forward in Darragh but you could change the other 15 around him and still be the same level. We need to park the seniors let them do there own thing and they'd still prob win the games they won this year without all the money spent. Put it into the underage proper coaching proper s and c and build for 10 years down the line. Management and team to well looked after for what they give in return. I've no doubt there putting the work in but mid table division 4 is our level. Get competitive properly underage give them the resources there crying out for
Taytofoley83 (Leitrim) - Posts: 13 - 04/03/2024 23:32:01
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Replying To harleys: "I agree with some of your points, our defenders are very poor and mc closkey and carrol aka the twin towers would eat our current midfield for breakfast but I disagree with you letting the management off so easy. Look at the difference in Donegal this year from last year more or less the same players with a different manager. Our players are good enough to get promoted under a good manager, hyland achieved it and I think terry hyland would have got this current team up this season. Keith is a loss but not as much as some people say on here, yes he got a lot of scores every game but most were frees.
We also have a loosing culture that's bred into us, players and supporters, we just accept defeat, go out on the pitch and say hard luck lads maybe next time... we need to expect better, demand better and when they are playing sh1t let them know it!!" Donegal were playing in Division 1 last year and were relegated! Unfortunately on this forum facts seem to be in short supply! What percentage of Keith's scores were from frees?
Finally you might have a losing culture that is bread into you so speak for yourself and leave the rest of us out!
Thank you!
Leitrim@1960 (Leitrim) - Posts: 15 - 05/03/2024 09:39:08
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Replying To Taytofoley83: "I've said it a few months ago and I'll say it again. Were after losing 3 years and how many 100thousands on this senior team. This money and time should be put back into the underage and build proper players for the future. This team has ran its course and has flatlined now. Yeah we've one high quality forward in Darragh but you could change the other 15 around him and still be the same level. We need to park the seniors let them do there own thing and they'd still prob win the games they won this year without all the money spent. Put it into the underage proper coaching proper s and c and build for 10 years down the line. Management and team to well looked after for what they give in return. I've no doubt there putting the work in but mid table division 4 is our level. Get competitive properly underage give them the resources there crying out for" I agree with investing in underage as that will be the foundation for success in years to come, you can't pump money into underage unless you get a forward thinking games manager it's as simple as that
lugdrum (Leitrim) - Posts: 315 - 05/03/2024 09:45:55
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According to 2023 National League stats for 2023 done by score beo and gaelic statesman he scored 5-52 acorss 7 games. 29f 2 45s and 3 marks.
The Longford game was a disaster for us. Carlow we should have saw out with fouls high up the field and now we find ourselves struggling for promotion. Laois will beat us unfortunately and 2025 is the new target. Andys time is certainly up and hopefully Mickey Graham stays on and takes the full role. There is a good 20s team there that in 2 or 3 years intergrated with the likes of rooney, o'rourke, beirne, gilheany, heslin, casey, diffley, dolan, plunkett, keany etc there is a very competitive side in Leitrim.
leitrimman68 (Leitrim) - Posts: 17 - 05/03/2024 10:03:16
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Replying To Leitrim@1960: "Donegal were playing in Division 1 last year and were relegated! Unfortunately on this forum facts seem to be in short supply! What percentage of Keith's scores were from frees?
Finally you might have a losing culture that is bread into you so speak for yourself and leave the rest of us out!
Thank you!" What are the 'facts' according to you? Are people missing something?
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 05/03/2024 10:37:45
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Replying To leitrimman68: "According to 2023 National League stats for 2023 done by score beo and gaelic statesman he scored 5-52 acorss 7 games. 29f 2 45s and 3 marks.
The Longford game was a disaster for us. Carlow we should have saw out with fouls high up the field and now we find ourselves struggling for promotion. Laois will beat us unfortunately and 2025 is the new target. Andys time is certainly up and hopefully Mickey Graham stays on and takes the full role. There is a good 20s team there that in 2 or 3 years intergrated with the likes of rooney, o'rourke, beirne, gilheany, heslin, casey, diffley, dolan, plunkett, keany etc there is a very competitive side in Leitrim." problem is half of those lads you mention will have had enough in 2/3 years and will have emigrated or just given up, and then we are back to trying to compete with only a handful of inter county standard players instead of a team of them. Rinse and repeat. We are just not a serious football county, I hope for better but good chance we will finish the league in 4th or 5th.
gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 458 - 05/03/2024 11:01:06
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I am not convinced that Mickey Graham is the correct man for the job. Cavan went from div 1 down to div 4 under him. Yes he won an ulster with Cavan but don't forget it was during Covid and also Tipperary won Munster on the same day and look where they are now. Drew with Waterford over the weekend. Leitrim have to try and approach someone like Malachy O'Rourke I don't see him getting a job in Ulster for a couple of years as most of the teams have new management. The only one is potentially Tyrone obviously if that becomes available he will be the number 1 candidate one would have to assume. I do think they need an Ulster type approach to football with a defensive shape and structure. Maybe even a Nunber 2 at some of the top counties might be interested. Most management teams are successful due to the coach they have with them. Graham is now a coach with Leitrim any no real improvement. Another possible candidate could be Liam McHale.
lugdrum (Leitrim) - Posts: 315 - 05/03/2024 11:36:35
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Replying To lugdrum: "I am not convinced that Mickey Graham is the correct man for the job. Cavan went from div 1 down to div 4 under him. Yes he won an ulster with Cavan but don't forget it was during Covid and also Tipperary won Munster on the same day and look where they are now. Drew with Waterford over the weekend. Leitrim have to try and approach someone like Malachy O'Rourke I don't see him getting a job in Ulster for a couple of years as most of the teams have new management. The only one is potentially Tyrone obviously if that becomes available he will be the number 1 candidate one would have to assume. I do think they need an Ulster type approach to football with a defensive shape and structure. Maybe even a Nunber 2 at some of the top counties might be interested. Most management teams are successful due to the coach they have with them. Graham is now a coach with Leitrim any no real improvement. Another possible candidate could be Liam McHale." Whilst I'd agree with you that we need an Ulster coach I wouldn't agree about Liam McHale.
We are able to produce talented players. That's not the problem Even the top teams have a maximum of 3 or 4 players that would be considered exceptional. The rest are footsoldiers. We're not producing those because of our structures from under age all the way through to senior football.
We have way too many teams and as a result the quality of our football is diluted. At underage level the top quality players have too much time and space on the ball so that when they move to inter county level they're unable to compete. To combat this some genius came up with the idea of only being allowed two plays at under 13 level!
The solution to this is amalgamations. Some clubs have preempted this and taken the lead. The county board needs to take charge of this and ensure that population trends are taken into consideration first and foremost.
Implement this at underage and within a few years it will become accepted. If a club wants to stay separate then there will be other ways to accommodate this. They can always enter scor! The players will want to play at the best standard available. Better quality football means better quality players.
ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 104 - 05/03/2024 12:20:04
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Replying To lugdrum: "I am not convinced that Mickey Graham is the correct man for the job. Cavan went from div 1 down to div 4 under him. Yes he won an ulster with Cavan but don't forget it was during Covid and also Tipperary won Munster on the same day and look where they are now. Drew with Waterford over the weekend. Leitrim have to try and approach someone like Malachy O'Rourke I don't see him getting a job in Ulster for a couple of years as most of the teams have new management. The only one is potentially Tyrone obviously if that becomes available he will be the number 1 candidate one would have to assume. I do think they need an Ulster type approach to football with a defensive shape and structure. Maybe even a Nunber 2 at some of the top counties might be interested. Most management teams are successful due to the coach they have with them. Graham is now a coach with Leitrim any no real improvement. Another possible candidate could be Liam McHale." He might not be but he has a track record that can be stood over with success at club & county level, has a local knowledge of football in the shannonside region & has managed in Leitrim. And he'll have the power to implement his own plan if he takes over. And I doubt he'll cost as much... it's interesting to note that management costs increased significantly from 2021 to 2022. Until other matters off the field can be addressed, he will be the finest. The likes of a Malachy O'Rourke can wait for a top county job, he would have any amount of clubs looking for him also so he really wouldn't be someone I would be looking for. In reality, the next number of Leitrim managers should be no further than from one of the 6 counties that border us or preferably one of our own but that's not looking like that would be an option for the short to medium term.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 05/03/2024 13:46:19
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Replying To Square_B: "As far as I'm aware there is a full time paid administrator in Leitrim. The Games Manager is a paid role (also full time as far as I'm aware) as are the Games Promotion Co-ordinators. It has been said over and over again but it's hard to see how one can justify spending large sums of money on a management team when coaching in the county needs to be improved. We also seem to not be able to hold on to GPC's, for what ever reason, which can't be helpful. It is also noted that when a certain person was involved, there was a lot of activity, workshops etc which stopped when he left. I've also said this before, there's probably too many clubs in Leitrim meaning that resources can be spread too thin. With the way trends are going, some clubs will have to merge together or disband. In saying that, I constantly look to our neighbours over in Fermanagh & Longford (particularly Fermanagh) who both have less clubs than we have, a similar enough sized playing base and wonder how they manage to achieve more on the field of play. Perhaps it's a culture mindset I don't know. You have to wonder are clubs doing enough to attract people to get involved not just at a playing level but coaching & organisation? Emigration doesn't help but we can't keep letting this be an excuse. On the field of play, after the last 2 games, there's no way we'd deserve to be promoted. In fact, we have gone backwards in the last 3 years. The reality is that we're going to meet many of the same teams in the TC in a few months time so I think planning for 2025 needs to start fairly soon. Either way, the next man is going to have an almighty job on his hands." Interesting topic here. Everyone is speaking of putting the money into underage but putting into underage without the correct people at the helm is also a waste.
My question is how many full time positions are within Leitrim GAA, including the coaches who are employed directly by Connacht Council. It would be interesting to list them, how long they are in the position etc. I certainly am not here to needlessly attack any individual, however, I would interested to know this as in a private sector job your based on performance and merit. If targets are not been met after a substantial period, should they be moved on and replaced?
leitrimlad15 (Leitrim) - Posts: 65 - 05/03/2024 14:04:30
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Replying To ThePowerhouse: "Whilst I'd agree with you that we need an Ulster coach I wouldn't agree about Liam McHale.
We are able to produce talented players. That's not the problem Even the top teams have a maximum of 3 or 4 players that would be considered exceptional. The rest are footsoldiers. We're not producing those because of our structures from under age all the way through to senior football.
We have way too many teams and as a result the quality of our football is diluted. At underage level the top quality players have too much time and space on the ball so that when they move to inter county level they're unable to compete. To combat this some genius came up with the idea of only being allowed two plays at under 13 level!
The solution to this is amalgamations. Some clubs have preempted this and taken the lead. The county board needs to take charge of this and ensure that population trends are taken into consideration first and foremost.
Implement this at underage and within a few years it will become accepted. If a club wants to stay separate then there will be other ways to accommodate this. They can always enter scor! The players will want to play at the best standard available. Better quality football means better quality players." this has been debated before. with the exception of underage to keep players involved, teams do not want amalgamation at adult level, it is seen a failure and would rather go down the levels and compete by themselves with no success.
Am i right in sayin that Annaduff are the only rural club that do not amalgamate? Also, have Glenfarne underage sides?
They seem to motor well with the small resources they have but I fear for likes of them and Eslin down the line
gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 458 - 05/03/2024 14:09:57
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Replying To gaelsboy: "this has been debated before. with the exception of underage to keep players involved, teams do not want amalgamation at adult level, it is seen a failure and would rather go down the levels and compete by themselves with no success.
Am i right in sayin that Annaduff are the only rural club that do not amalgamate? Also, have Glenfarne underage sides?
They seem to motor well with the small resources they have but I fear for likes of them and Eslin down the line" Annaduff aren't exactly a rural club. 3 parish's in the club as well as two well sized villages. Possibly if you consider Jamestown. Not sure what parish it lies in but I know of players previously coming from here to play for annaduff. Huge numbers in the school also. They've a big catchment area.
Leitrimforliam (Leitrim) - Posts: 240 - 05/03/2024 15:09:47
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Clubs that to my knowledge don't amlagmate at any age group are
Annaduff
St. Mary's
Leitrim Geals
Drumkeerin
Dromahair
Manor
Melvin Geals
I might be missing one or 2 more. Maybe the way to solve this is get the county board to put the amalgamations in place based on numbers and how strong teams will be. Maybe run a 9 or 11 a side comp for all clubs to enter. I would guess out of 23 clubs in Leitrim 15 of them would be able to put out a 9 or 11 a side team for a competition and keep their own identity also.
Maybe for that comp. Eslin and cloone could go alone and maybe Glenfaren and ballinaglera for example.
lugdrum (Leitrim) - Posts: 315 - 05/03/2024 15:58:24
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It has to be taken out of the control of the clubs. As an example, at underage Aughawillan. Aughnasheelin and Drumreilly are amalgamated. Imagine a team in recent years with Pearse Dolan, Aaron Hoare, the Cullens and Plunketts etc. taking part in the senior championship and with a realistic chance if winning it.
The alternative is that all three will struggle to retain senior status and will yo yo between senior and Intermediate. Do you honestly think that lads are going to stick at it just so they can survive at senior? Or, if they're lucky, win an intermediate before facing the inevitable hidings the following year.
The people within clubs are, by and large, from a different generation than the players. It's inconceivable to them that young men would have different opinions to them and that playing for the jersey isn't all they live for.
The numbers don't lie. We've been bouncing around at the bottom since 2008. It is not working. Anyone that says otherwise is deluded. If they're from the Coubty board then they're not fit fir that job. What do we have to wait for? Do we wait until New York or London beat us by 10 or 15 points in the championship?
ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 104 - 05/03/2024 17:01:48
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