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Replying To Past hurler: "Bringing on Conor Hearne in the 72nd minute for McGuckin was madness!
Hearne should have came on early in the second half, he has loads of hurling." Agree. We're going back to Davy's days and same predictable substitutions.
HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 556 - 25/04/2022 12:26:22
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Replying To Past hurler: "Bringing on Conor Hearne in the 72nd minute for McGuckin was madness!
Hearne should have came on early in the second half, he has loads of hurling." Yes yes yes 100% agree that we should start Hearne and Banville in the half forward line. Casey good option in the corner.
Positives- we are the last to play Westmeath so we will know how much we need to score to over take the other teams score difference
I expect KK to beat Dublin and Galway and if they do - they will be guaranteed to be in the top two in the group and be in the Leinster final before our match so could potentially rest a number of key players - they could meet us in the final if we beat them and Galway draw with or beat Dublin as long as we can have the better score difference
Yellow (Wexford) - Posts: 589 - 25/04/2022 12:27:23
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Replying To Viking66: "Rory dropped a free short early in the second half from 30 yards out Barney. And missed a few other easy enough 1s. Donal only missed 1 I think and it was a tough 1. There's the difference between the teams right there Barney." It was a game that could have went either way. As has been the case for past ten years usually between the two,
Thought it was odd choice by Donal Óg. Also same stuff from same sources about the standard of the game itself. I recall similar when they drew in 2013. Well, it may not have been as good as the Limerick match (and Limerick are clearly ahead of the pack) but it was exciting, high scoring given the wind and no shortage of endeavour on either side. Way better game on most levels to compared to Thurles yesterday.
Anyway, will be hoping Wexford do get a top 3 spot alongside ourselves. And the other actual Leinster county :-)
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3688 - 25/04/2022 12:45:46
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Replying To Viking66: "It's a soccer and football crossover. Keep the ball so the opponents can't score and you might when you work it up the pitch. All well and good till you get turned over in midfield and the ball is back over your bar in a flash." Get that.
And what's the thinking behind letting the opposition do the same thing, ie short puckouts...assume its getting bodies in the middle third before engaging but would not be better to push up once you let them have the short puck out? If they go long your midfield has time to get back for breaks.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 25/04/2022 12:55:06
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Replying To WEX98: "Get that.
And what's the thinking behind letting the opposition do the same thing, ie short puckouts...assume its getting bodies in the middle third before engaging but would not be better to push up once you let them have the short puck out? If they go long your midfield has time to get back for breaks." Agree Wex98
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16767 - 25/04/2022 13:09:43
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Replying To Punter72007: "First off ... Well Done Dublin. You have a very good player in Donal Burke and a number of your forwards delivered crucial scores.
Now as regards Wexford, the short version is that we didn't take our chances.
I think we are making life hard for ourselves and maybe 1 tweak that could make a big difference.
Whenever I am gutted at the result, I eventually end up looing at what the numbers might show.
So I look at the statistics to see if this would translate into some sort of insight.
For me, 2 things are clear.
1. Free taking.
Chin comes in after half time and scores 7 from placed balls (1 65 + 6 frees). I am nearly sure that he only misses 1. Success rate 87.5% (even if I got this wrong and Chin missed 2, then it's 78%).
Rory scores 4 from frees but misses 3, maybe 4 frees. Success rate either 57% or 50%.
As suggested by a few posters, I'd bring young Banville or Casey in at corner forward with a specialist role to take frees.
Meath won a few football All-Ireland's with a specialist free taker in the corner - Brian Stafford. Yes, Stafford picked off the odd score from play but in general, he stayed in the corner with a clear remit to convert frees. Most games he had a scoring ratio above 80%, sometimes 90%+ and even the odd day where he got all the frees. Sean Boylan, a very clever man, knew this and this strategy back boned a few All Ireland wins.
Given that our forwards did not score beyond Rory and Conor Mc, why not "carry" a specialist corner forward for frees, as suggested by other people on this forum as well.
What effect would this have had and could have?
(a) Statistically, with a better place ball conversion, we would have at least drawn or won that Dublin game and won the Galway game.
(b) Rory is a brilliant hurler. If you took the frees away from him, he can focus on his own game. It might just liberate him to focus on scoring more from play.
(c) Another benefit is that it encourages you to run at the opposition more because you know if get fouled, it's 80% going to be a score for you. Also the opposition want to foul less because there's a higher chance of a score. And more fouls, ends up with more cards being awarded and defenders hold back a little when on a yellow. The great kilkenny team of the naughties(Eoin larkin etc), did this to great effect knowing their free would be converted nine times out of ten.
In summary, bringing in a specialist free taker could give a higher conversion rate AND free up our best forward.
2. Our forwards scoring from play score 0-2.
Conor McDonald scores 1 point from play. Rory scores 1 point from play.
Overall, statistically, we created 42 scoring chances and scored 0-23 points.
We did create a lot, we just didn't convert them into scores.
At times like this, I miss Paul Morris. Nearly every game, he chipped in with 1 or 2 points from play, even against the top opposition. He has the ability to drift off the defender, take a pass and score that 1 or 2 points. Now, I know that doesn't look like much but ... but if you have 4 more Paul Morris's in your forward line, you get a cumulative effect. Anyway, the point is that even 1 point from a Paul Morris and we would have better results against Dublin and Galway.
I am not sure how to solve the forward scoring problem. There's some good young hurlers that maybe they require a little more time and experience at this level and that they will come good with more experience.
Anyway, what is done is done.
If there was 1 change, I'd do, it would be to bring in a speciality free taker.
If Chin was fit to play, that would probably solve it too but that is a whole other story." Agree with this post. Hopefully Paul will be fit for the Westmeath game. Apparently it was a small procedure on his knee. He's also OK on frees. Probably statistically at 70-75%.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16767 - 25/04/2022 13:26:20
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Replying To Yellow: "Yes yes yes 100% agree that we should start Hearne and Banville in the half forward line. Casey good option in the corner.
Positives- we are the last to play Westmeath so we will know how much we need to score to over take the other teams score difference
I expect KK to beat Dublin and Galway and if they do - they will be guaranteed to be in the top two in the group and be in the Leinster final before our match so could potentially rest a number of key players - they could meet us in the final if we beat them and Galway draw with or beat Dublin as long as we can have the better score difference" I don't expect Kilkenny and Galway to beat Dublin. They will be favourites but you are, like most other posters on this, underestimating the Dubs. We have only beaten Dublin in Championship hurling once in the last 10 years. They have beaten us at least 5 times that I can think of. Galway haven't beaten them in the last 4 years. The Dubs won the last 2 times they met in Championship.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16767 - 25/04/2022 13:31:44
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Replying To Yellow: "Yes yes yes 100% agree that we should start Hearne and Banville in the half forward line. Casey good option in the corner.
Positives- we are the last to play Westmeath so we will know how much we need to score to over take the other teams score difference
I expect KK to beat Dublin and Galway and if they do - they will be guaranteed to be in the top two in the group and be in the Leinster final before our match so could potentially rest a number of key players - they could meet us in the final if we beat them and Galway draw with or beat Dublin as long as we can have the better score difference" I don't expect Kilkenny and Galway to beat Dublin. They will be favourites but you are, like most other posters on this, underestimating the Dubs. We have only beaten Dublin in Championship hurling once in the last 10 years. They have beaten us at least 5 times that I can think of. Galway haven't beaten them in the last 4 years. The Dubs won the last 2 times they met in Championship.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16767 - 25/04/2022 13:32:28
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "It was a game that could have went either way. As has been the case for past ten years usually between the two,
Thought it was odd choice by Donal Óg. Also same stuff from same sources about the standard of the game itself. I recall similar when they drew in 2013. Well, it may not have been as good as the Limerick match (and Limerick are clearly ahead of the pack) but it was exciting, high scoring given the wind and no shortage of endeavour on either side. Way better game on most levels to compared to Thurles yesterday.
Anyway, will be hoping Wexford do get a top 3 spot alongside ourselves. And the other actual Leinster county :-)" Hope so too Barney!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16767 - 25/04/2022 13:33:08
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Replying To Past hurler: "Darragh Egan is way out of his depth in this job.
Give out about Davy all you want, but he had a very good Inter-county CV when he took over the Wexford job.
I agree with the above, Ross Banville couldn't be any worse from play than some of our starting forwards so why not start him when we know he is the best free-taker in Wexford?
Too may of the Wexford forwards are contributing nothing on the scoreboard" Be careful what you wish for. They think very highly of Daire Egan in Tipp and I heard just this yesterday evening.
The tiresome GAA rhetoric of either blame the referee or the manager, absolves players of responsibility which they need to take whether they like it or not. If the players had took the chances we had, we would have won the game.
That said, as I said earlier I thought the team selection being the same as previous day and conceding the puck outs cost gave Dublin a huge advantage and our half forward and midfield didn't stem the flow of ball in to the backs.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1920 - 25/04/2022 13:57:54
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Replying To Punter72007: "First off ... Well Done Dublin. You have a very good player in Donal Burke and a number of your forwards delivered crucial scores.
Now as regards Wexford, the short version is that we didn't take our chances.
I think we are making life hard for ourselves and maybe 1 tweak that could make a big difference.
Whenever I am gutted at the result, I eventually end up looing at what the numbers might show.
So I look at the statistics to see if this would translate into some sort of insight.
For me, 2 things are clear.
1. Free taking.
Chin comes in after half time and scores 7 from placed balls (1 65 + 6 frees). I am nearly sure that he only misses 1. Success rate 87.5% (even if I got this wrong and Chin missed 2, then it's 78%).
Rory scores 4 from frees but misses 3, maybe 4 frees. Success rate either 57% or 50%.
As suggested by a few posters, I'd bring young Banville or Casey in at corner forward with a specialist role to take frees.
Meath won a few football All-Ireland's with a specialist free taker in the corner - Brian Stafford. Yes, Stafford picked off the odd score from play but in general, he stayed in the corner with a clear remit to convert frees. Most games he had a scoring ratio above 80%, sometimes 90%+ and even the odd day where he got all the frees. Sean Boylan, a very clever man, knew this and this strategy back boned a few All Ireland wins.
Given that our forwards did not score beyond Rory and Conor Mc, why not "carry" a specialist corner forward for frees, as suggested by other people on this forum as well.
What effect would this have had and could have?
(a) Statistically, with a better place ball conversion, we would have at least drawn or won that Dublin game and won the Galway game.
(b) Rory is a brilliant hurler. If you took the frees away from him, he can focus on his own game. It might just liberate him to focus on scoring more from play.
(c) Another benefit is that it encourages you to run at the opposition more because you know if get fouled, it's 80% going to be a score for you. Also the opposition want to foul less because there's a higher chance of a score. And more fouls, ends up with more cards being awarded and defenders hold back a little when on a yellow. The great kilkenny team of the naughties(Eoin larkin etc), did this to great effect knowing their free would be converted nine times out of ten.
In summary, bringing in a specialist free taker could give a higher conversion rate AND free up our best forward.
2. Our forwards scoring from play score 0-2.
Conor McDonald scores 1 point from play. Rory scores 1 point from play.
Overall, statistically, we created 42 scoring chances and scored 0-23 points.
We did create a lot, we just didn't convert them into scores.
At times like this, I miss Paul Morris. Nearly every game, he chipped in with 1 or 2 points from play, even against the top opposition. He has the ability to drift off the defender, take a pass and score that 1 or 2 points. Now, I know that doesn't look like much but ... but if you have 4 more Paul Morris's in your forward line, you get a cumulative effect. Anyway, the point is that even 1 point from a Paul Morris and we would have better results against Dublin and Galway.
I am not sure how to solve the forward scoring problem. There's some good young hurlers that maybe they require a little more time and experience at this level and that they will come good with more experience.
Anyway, what is done is done.
If there was 1 change, I'd do, it would be to bring in a speciality free taker.
If Chin was fit to play, that would probably solve it too but that is a whole other story." Very good post punter and agree with everything you've outlined. Five of Dublin's starting forwards scored from play and the other- Danny sutcliffe normally contributes from play. Paul Morris never fully appreciated for the scores he regularly contributes when he plays. Unfortunate that injury rules him out at the moment
HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 556 - 25/04/2022 14:00:15
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Paul Morris is not the answer to our free taking problems. I agree he contributes 2 points every day.
If we are looking to the future, we should look at blooding Banville. He is a tough competitor and a good free taker.
If I was in the Dublin full back line, I would have fouled repeatedly as well. The frees might have gone over, or might have gone wide.
Being realistic, we won't finish top 3 so we might as well experiment for the next 3 games and get ready for next year.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1920 - 25/04/2022 14:04:04
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Paul Morris is not the answer to our free taking problems. I agree he contributes 2 points every day.
If we are looking to the future, we should look at blooding Banville. He is a tough competitor and a good free taker.
If I was in the Dublin full back line, I would have fouled repeatedly as well. The frees might have gone over, or might have gone wide.
Being realistic, we won't finish top 3 so we might as well experiment for the next 3 games and get ready for next year." That's the single most negative post I ever read. We are 2 games into a 5 game round Robin. We drew with 1 of our main rivals and lost to another by a point. And so you reckon we won't finish in the top 3 already. God you are some quitter.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16767 - 25/04/2022 15:01:31
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Replying To Viking66: "That's the single most negative post I ever read. We are 2 games into a 5 game round Robin. We drew with 1 of our main rivals and lost to another by a point. And so you reckon we won't finish in the top 3 already. God you are some quitter." To be fair to him it's extremely likely we won't. Isn't even fully in our own hands if we win the next 3 games.
Fulgrim (Wexford) - Posts: 270 - 25/04/2022 15:19:49
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Replying To Viking66: "That's the single most negative post I ever read. We are 2 games into a 5 game round Robin. We drew with 1 of our main rivals and lost to another by a point. And so you reckon we won't finish in the top 3 already. God you are some quitter." Viking, I admire your optimism but the way I see it, a neutral viewpoint. Wexford have 1 point from two home games. You were lucky in the first game, Galway threw it away. As for the Dublin game, how many Wexford supporters expected to loose that? From what I've seen, it's not so much the results that are worrying, but the way Wexford are playing.
Yes, it's still possible for Wexford to get out of Leinster, even contest the final. But, I cannot see Galway losing at home to Dublin, or Kilkenny losing away to them. From what I've seen so far, I think this year's Kilkenny team could be better than the teams of the last few years. I think they'll make the Leinster final.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2866 - 25/04/2022 15:31:36
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There are plenty of permutations that have us finish third at least so I'm not giving up hope just yet, hopefully the panels outlook is brighter than some on here. Saying that some things have to change and fast.
Mcguckin cannot start the next day, I'd bring jack back in for him. Maybe Jack throwing the hurl against Waterford has damaged his place on the team, it was mentioned afterwards by a few pundits that it could well harm his starting chances. Whatever the reason he needs to come back in.
We need a free taker and I agree why not start Banville against Laois and Westmeath see how we go. It won't happen though.
It's going to be tough to qualify now but while it is still possible we need to stay behind the team and give it everything until the last day, hopefully a good few travel for the Laois game.
ChinCanHurl (Wexford) - Posts: 302 - 25/04/2022 16:07:45
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Replying To Fulgrim: "To be fair to him it's extremely likely we won't. Isn't even fully in our own hands if we win the next 3 games." Yes it is in our own hands if we finish on 7. If we win our last 3 games we will have 7 points. Most Kilkenny can then finish on is 8 if they beat Dublin and Galway. If Dublin beat Galway also the most Galway can finish on is 5. If Galway beat Dublin the most the Dubs can finish on is 6. If Dublin beat KK to finish on 8 the most Kilkenny can finish on is 6 if they lose to us and Dublin. If we win our last 3 we will be at least 3rd if not 2nd. And we have already played the 2 counties we have the worst record against over the last 8 or 9 years. In the Championship we haven't beaten Galway since 1996 and we have only beaten Dublin once since the noughties as far as I can remember.
Really this discussion is why we have won so little at the very top level since the 60s in a nutshell and why we keep losing the close games at all grades. We have collectively, as a county of people, a chronic lack of belief. It took a man who spent most of his formative years studying and hurling in Munster, Liam Griffin, to get us our only significant, as in AI, success at any grade since the 60s.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16767 - 25/04/2022 16:09:04
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Replying To foreveryoung: "I don't see any thread on Wexford football, so I'll congratulate them on a great win here on this thread. I'm sure that all of you are delighted anyway, as you are Wexford fans after all, irrespective of the code involved." Given the lack of knowledge of the GAA you've displayed over the last week or so on here I'm not sure if you know that hurling and football are actually two different sports. Plenty of people will follow one and have no interest in the other. My father played inter county football for Wexford for years and is one of the biggest Wexford football fans I know but would only have a small passing interest in the hurling.
ChinCanHurl (Wexford) - Posts: 302 - 25/04/2022 16:14:45
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Just wondering lads something that has been annoying me for a while a little rant here:),, it feels like we always have to travel up to laois in every grade of hurling for a match I know there's home and away set up but we always seem to have to travel up there for a game... i see the minors have to play up there now on Saturday and seniors playing there on Sunday where's the bloody common sense in making it a double header the Gaa couldn't give a toss about us supporters..
P.S I heard differently on chins injury that because he has so much muscle in his knee that he doesn't need surgery that it will heel itself something like that, don't know the ins and outs but that's what I was told..
juan31 (Wexford) - Posts: 169 - 25/04/2022 16:15:15
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Replying To Viking66: "That's the single most negative post I ever read. We are 2 games into a 5 game round Robin. We drew with 1 of our main rivals and lost to another by a point. And so you reckon we won't finish in the top 3 already. God you are some quitter." I think in reality it's 4 teams, 3 places, and we have played two out of our 3 games (forgetting Laois and Westmeath).
We're only -1 after the two games in a very competitive competition but for me it's the frustration of watching Wexford, we seem to be giving ourselves extra work, we should back ourselves a bit more. We are just too defensive, afraid to go all out attack.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 25/04/2022 16:18:29
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