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Replying To Viking66: "You have made the same points as me re divisional teams Pikeman! I think the championship in Cork gets extended timewise. But alot of other counties don't have the same proportion of dual players as we have so maybe that makes it easier. Some stages of the hurling and football championships might get run off concurrently in those counties." Great minds, wha'? :)
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2244 - 30/05/2022 13:53:07
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I think it's a valid question whether we should consider running the club football championships differently to the hurling ones. Wexford is one of the few counties that currently runs both exactly the same way. But even if you did that with the best of intentions, you'd probably still be accused of trying to "do down" football.
Suppose for example you expanded senior football to 16 teams, with the intention of letting more people play at the highest grade, in the hope of bringing on standards overall.
Obvious way to run it would be four groups of four, with the top two going through to quarter finals. But then there'd be complaints about football being sidelined because of how players would only get three groups games instead of five in hurling, and how only half the teams in football would go through (eight from sixteen) instead of two-thirds of them in hurling (eight from twelve).
As for District teams, I've often heard people call for it, but I've never heard anybody explain how it would work in practice. For example, how would a Wexford District team drawing players from the likes of Rosslare, Kilmore and St. Joseph's take part in the senior championship if those clubs still have games in the Junior or Junior 'A' championships, that would normally be played around the same time? Do you hold up the lower grades until all the District teams are out of senior?
Or suppose two or three lads from the Shelmaliers or Sarsfields second teams were picked to play for Wexford District, and they were coming up against their own club in a senior knock-out match. How would that work? Would you really expect them to go hell for leather to knock their own club out of the championship?
Before you ask, no, I don't know how these things work in other counties that use District teams. Would be interested to hear, though." Yeah i agree, thats what i was getting at in my post. Theres always been this thinking within the county well if the hurlers are getting it then so should the footballers and vice versa even if its not the best for either.
But lets be honest thats been the case now for how long and what have we achieved?
And to be honest im not sure how it would work. Should we possibly explore regional teams and then have less games and senior with junior and junior a taking place then after or should junior and junior a teams play without their better players etc etc.
Ill be honest i dont have all the answers, just floating some ideas out there, my thinking in the regional teams was more to do with clubs whos first teams werent already senior or intermediate, for example looking at clubs like Davidstown, Shamrocks, Our Ladys Island, Monageer, Josephs, Marshalstown, Realt na mara, gers, Pats etc etc.
I mean a lot of club footballers will never even get close to playing even Intermediate football if we are being honest but again say that and ye could ruffle some feathers!
Again just floating ideas but i think we do need a completely different approach imho.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1336 - 30/05/2022 14:50:38
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All I'll say in reply to that last post is you're never, ever going to reach an agreement for Junior or Junior 'A' clubs to play without their best players in their own championships, to allow them to go play with a District team in the senior championship instead.
There'd be uproar from them if you even suggested it.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2244 - 30/05/2022 15:51:25
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Replying To tearintom: "Yeah i agree, thats what i was getting at in my post. Theres always been this thinking within the county well if the hurlers are getting it then so should the footballers and vice versa even if its not the best for either.
But lets be honest thats been the case now for how long and what have we achieved?
And to be honest im not sure how it would work. Should we possibly explore regional teams and then have less games and senior with junior and junior a taking place then after or should junior and junior a teams play without their better players etc etc.
Ill be honest i dont have all the answers, just floating some ideas out there, my thinking in the regional teams was more to do with clubs whos first teams werent already senior or intermediate, for example looking at clubs like Davidstown, Shamrocks, Our Ladys Island, Monageer, Josephs, Marshalstown, Realt na mara, gers, Pats etc etc.
I mean a lot of club footballers will never even get close to playing even Intermediate football if we are being honest but again say that and ye could ruffle some feathers!
Again just floating ideas but i think we do need a completely different approach imho." Here's an idea for you Tom. How many Junior and Junior A players are playing intercounty? Maybe play these championships off in April and May and June. And Junior B. Fit them in instead of League division x and y.Then those players could play their club hurling in July and August. Then they could play for a divisional team in the football championship. Or the other way around if football came first alternate years. Maybe do the same with the hurling. Would mean alot of training for the players concerned as to be a successful team they can't just turn up as skilful individuals and expect to play well as a senior or Intermediate team without a good block of team training.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 30/05/2022 16:54:23
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Replying To Viking66: "Here's an idea for you Tom. How many Junior and Junior A players are playing intercounty? Maybe play these championships off in April and May and June. And Junior B. Fit them in instead of League division x and y.Then those players could play their club hurling in July and August. Then they could play for a divisional team in the football championship. Or the other way around if football came first alternate years. Maybe do the same with the hurling. Would mean alot of training for the players concerned as to be a successful team they can't just turn up as skilful individuals and expect to play well as a senior or Intermediate team without a good block of team training." Yep that's something that could be looked at and not a bad idea to be fair, I do think we need thinking outside of the box like that.
The review will be interesting but i don't really expect anything too radical, wheels can be slow to turn within Wexford gaa.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1336 - 30/05/2022 20:28:18
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Replying To Viking66: "Here's an idea for you Tom. How many Junior and Junior A players are playing intercounty? Maybe play these championships off in April and May and June. And Junior B. Fit them in instead of League division x and y.Then those players could play their club hurling in July and August. Then they could play for a divisional team in the football championship. Or the other way around if football came first alternate years. Maybe do the same with the hurling. Would mean alot of training for the players concerned as to be a successful team they can't just turn up as skilful individuals and expect to play well as a senior or Intermediate team without a good block of team training." That's actually a really good idea as a way of getting District teams into the senior championships, without actually affecting the lower grade championships themselves. The best of the Junior and Junior 'A' players could form a District team for the senior championships, while other players in those clubs could play the League at the latter end of the year without their best players, in the same way that senior and intermediate clubs play it earlier in the year without their county players.
But your big problem now would be getting senior clubs to agree to allowing in District teams in the first place, since doing so would automatically lessen the chances of them winning the championship themselves! Nothing is ever easy.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2244 - 30/05/2022 20:34:25
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Replying To Pikeman96: "That's actually a really good idea as a way of getting District teams into the senior championships, without actually affecting the lower grade championships themselves. The best of the Junior and Junior 'A' players could form a District team for the senior championships, while other players in those clubs could play the League at the latter end of the year without their best players, in the same way that senior and intermediate clubs play it earlier in the year without their county players.
But your big problem now would be getting senior clubs to agree to allowing in District teams in the first place, since doing so would automatically lessen the chances of them winning the championship themselves! Nothing is ever easy." At Board level the Senior clubs will be in a minority if it came down to a vote. But if it helped lads from smaller clubs get better by being exposed to better opponents and therefore helped the counties fortunes hopefully they would see the merit. Another thing to consider would be the likely possibility of higher gate receipts with a 16 team senior championship as it wouldn't have to be shorter to accommodate the junior championships if they were played off during the intercounty season. And players from alot more clubs will be involved. Maybe some of this surplus could be distributed around the clubs as a kind of sweetener?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 31/05/2022 09:56:02
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Replying To Viking66: "At Board level the Senior clubs will be in a minority if it came down to a vote. But if it helped lads from smaller clubs get better by being exposed to better opponents and therefore helped the counties fortunes hopefully they would see the merit. Another thing to consider would be the likely possibility of higher gate receipts with a 16 team senior championship as it wouldn't have to be shorter to accommodate the junior championships if they were played off during the intercounty season. And players from alot more clubs will be involved. Maybe some of this surplus could be distributed around the clubs as a kind of sweetener?" Its genuinely thinking like that, that is needed imho, i think its a good idea. I would look at possibly starting the regional teams in intermediate football though rather than Senior though and see what level they are really at.
It would mean also that intermediate teams who are fighting to get up to senior wouldnt feel immediately bypassed by the regional teams.
I also think that regional teams is something that should be looked at, at u20. U20 football is a disaster with literally dozens of walkovers. Surely better for these young fellas to play for regional teams rather than not at all. It also gets players used to the regional teams at an earlier age.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1336 - 31/05/2022 10:48:45
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Catchup on the thread, I am only sort of in the know here but wouldn't there be war if a junior championship played in April/May? How do you police 2nd teams from senior clubs, if the senior club left their stars into the squad?
tearintom, nobody on this thread ever said "whats the point from you and others".
As an outsider with an interest in both games, I would love to see young players from my club pulling up trees in Wexford colours on the football field. There are 2 major problems to this.
1. The gulf in class to Dublin, Donegal, Kerry is so so difficult to bridge. You just have to start at underage and try to win u14/u16/minor/u20 titles or at very least be competitive. At the moment, teams are lambs to the slaughter and the best players are all choosing hurling.
2. Interest levels in football are not there in Wexford supporters. You can bring the horse to the trough but you can't make him drink springs to mind. I was living in Wexford when they were competing in Leinster titles, etc and while people got behind the teams, they didn't generate the level of excitement that the hurlers did in 2019.
I don't know the answers here, but it all comes back to the clubs, and in particular clubs in the "New Ross football mafia" which is without doubt the hotbed of football promotion and support in the county. When those clubs were all strong and knocking 7 bells out of one another over the senior football championship, Wexford football was at its strongest. Now, some of those clubs are playing intermediate and intermediate A. I know these things are cyclical and generational, but why have some of these dropped off the face of the earth at every level?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 31/05/2022 11:11:23
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Replying To Viking66: "At Board level the Senior clubs will be in a minority if it came down to a vote. But if it helped lads from smaller clubs get better by being exposed to better opponents and therefore helped the counties fortunes hopefully they would see the merit. Another thing to consider would be the likely possibility of higher gate receipts with a 16 team senior championship as it wouldn't have to be shorter to accommodate the junior championships if they were played off during the intercounty season. And players from alot more clubs will be involved. Maybe some of this surplus could be distributed around the clubs as a kind of sweetener?" It's all very hypothetical, but let's assume that senior clubs would almost definitely vote against it, and that intermediate clubs would more than likely vote against it too, on the grounds that they'd be "leapfrogged" and also that senior would then be more difficult for them too if they did happen to get promoted the usual way.
So, that's 24 against.
Have had a quick look and I reckon there's only four Junior teams and four Junior 'A' teams who are not the second team of a senior or intermediate club: Monageer/Boolavogue, Our Lady's Island, Blackwater, St. Joseph's, Marshalstown/Castledockrell, Shamrocks, Adamstown, and Davidstown/Courtnacuddy. You wouldn't pick much of a Gorey District team out of that lot, but that's another story.
Anyway, that's only eight in favour.
It would all come down then to the votes of the Intermediate 'A' teams and the other people who have a vote at these things (members of Co. Board management committee, District Secretaries and Chairmen, etc.). Would be a close-run affair.
Still a good idea to maybe at least try it, though.
@ExiledinWex - a way you could police running the lower grade championships earlier in the year would be to have senior/intermediate clubs nominate a squad of say 18 or 20 players at the start of the year, who can only play for their first team. Clubs already do something similar for the All County Leagues, where they have to nominate a First 15, and a Second 15 too, if they're entering three teams.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2244 - 31/05/2022 12:24:29
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Replying To tearintom: "Its genuinely thinking like that, that is needed imho, i think its a good idea. I would look at possibly starting the regional teams in intermediate football though rather than Senior though and see what level they are really at.
It would mean also that intermediate teams who are fighting to get up to senior wouldnt feel immediately bypassed by the regional teams.
I also think that regional teams is something that should be looked at, at u20. U20 football is a disaster with literally dozens of walkovers. Surely better for these young fellas to play for regional teams rather than not at all. It also gets players used to the regional teams at an earlier age." True. It would suit u20s. Maybe even minors Tom.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 31/05/2022 13:16:03
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Catchup on the thread, I am only sort of in the know here but wouldn't there be war if a junior championship played in April/May? How do you police 2nd teams from senior clubs, if the senior club left their stars into the squad?
tearintom, nobody on this thread ever said "whats the point from you and others".
As an outsider with an interest in both games, I would love to see young players from my club pulling up trees in Wexford colours on the football field. There are 2 major problems to this.
1. The gulf in class to Dublin, Donegal, Kerry is so so difficult to bridge. You just have to start at underage and try to win u14/u16/minor/u20 titles or at very least be competitive. At the moment, teams are lambs to the slaughter and the best players are all choosing hurling.
2. Interest levels in football are not there in Wexford supporters. You can bring the horse to the trough but you can't make him drink springs to mind. I was living in Wexford when they were competing in Leinster titles, etc and while people got behind the teams, they didn't generate the level of excitement that the hurlers did in 2019.
I don't know the answers here, but it all comes back to the clubs, and in particular clubs in the "New Ross football mafia" which is without doubt the hotbed of football promotion and support in the county. When those clubs were all strong and knocking 7 bells out of one another over the senior football championship, Wexford football was at its strongest. Now, some of those clubs are playing intermediate and intermediate A. I know these things are cyclical and generational, but why have some of these dropped off the face of the earth at every level?" 1st up it would be easy policed as regards 2nd teams. Lads who play in it would miss the senior/Intermediate championship with their clubs.
As regards Ross District apart from the cyclical element there are other reasons for the dip in football form. Alot of the clubs around here are now Intermediate at hurling where they were Junior 10 years ago. There has been a marked effort to be genuinely dual starting at underage. Now this is bearing fruits.
This is coupled with the relative population of the county. The counties population has increased massively this millennium but most of this increase has occurred in the other 3 districts particularly Gorey and Wexford.
Finally Rugby is alot more popular in the District than it was 20 years ago also. Tadg Furlong would've made a great footballer if he hadn't chosen Rugby. But you couldn't blame him for his choice either.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 31/05/2022 13:25:12
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Replying To Pikeman96: "It's all very hypothetical, but let's assume that senior clubs would almost definitely vote against it, and that intermediate clubs would more than likely vote against it too, on the grounds that they'd be "leapfrogged" and also that senior would then be more difficult for them too if they did happen to get promoted the usual way.
So, that's 24 against.
Have had a quick look and I reckon there's only four Junior teams and four Junior 'A' teams who are not the second team of a senior or intermediate club: Monageer/Boolavogue, Our Lady's Island, Blackwater, St. Joseph's, Marshalstown/Castledockrell, Shamrocks, Adamstown, and Davidstown/Courtnacuddy. You wouldn't pick much of a Gorey District team out of that lot, but that's another story.
Anyway, that's only eight in favour.
It would all come down then to the votes of the Intermediate 'A' teams and the other people who have a vote at these things (members of Co. Board management committee, District Secretaries and Chairmen, etc.). Would be a close-run affair.
Still a good idea to maybe at least try it, though.
@ExiledinWex - a way you could police running the lower grade championships earlier in the year would be to have senior/intermediate clubs nominate a squad of say 18 or 20 players at the start of the year, who can only play for their first team. Clubs already do something similar for the All County Leagues, where they have to nominate a First 15, and a Second 15 too, if they're entering three teams." There could still be promotion and relegation in the usual way with only club sides eligible for this. Like Imokilly, a sort of District side, aren't allowed represent Cork in the Munster club championship.
Like any new idea it shouldn't be forced on lads without consultation. Give all the Senior and Intermediate clubs a chance to come up with tweaks for the plan.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 31/05/2022 13:30:32
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I see Shels won the league handy enough - anyone know if O'Gara was playing or eligible to play in the league?
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 05/06/2022 16:01:14
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I get the point re naming 18-20 who can't play with a 1st team but there would be ructions if a club are hit by a load of injuries. The alternative of naming a first 15 is all well and good but there is many opportunities for all sort of skull duggery then and I have seen this happen in Dublin clubs over the years.
And then, numbers 15-20 might get no football in the year because they are named in the senior panel. Alternatively, the naming of the junior panels could mean a chap who is playing right stuff altogether stays at that level rather than moving up to the senior team.
I'm not trying to make obstacles but I've seen this sort of skull duggery all too often. It is a nightmare to police.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 05/06/2022 19:47:42
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Post covid are club panels back to 26-30 or are clubs still being restricted to 24 for the championship.
skipper101 (Wexford) - Posts: 14 - 07/06/2022 07:32:21
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any word on the ground about shane roche? is he on for staying on or what is co boards thinking on it? my guess they will be happy for him to say on, saves them a lot bother looking for a replacement
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2842 - 07/06/2022 18:37:57
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Replying To Stmunnsriver: "any word on the ground about shane roche? is he on for staying on or what is co boards thinking on it? my guess they will be happy for him to say on, saves them a lot bother looking for a replacement" Only word was a while back that he didn't know if it suited with all the other things he's juggling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 08/06/2022 09:08:43
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Replying To zinny: "I see Shels won the league handy enough - anyone know if O'Gara was playing or eligible to play in the league?" Reading in the People he was playing 14, glowing report
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 09/06/2022 14:33:21
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i trust the shels are fancyed to win 2 in a row this year, who do lads fancy to challange them? gusserane or starlights dont seem to be going well, have the martins regrouped? bunclody are my outsider hunch to do well
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2842 - 15/06/2022 17:33:00
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