National Forum

Upcoming Special Congress

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

It's not really decent Whammo.
We get to play 24 (4*6) group games to tell us that the 13-16th placed teams - Cork, Offaly Down etc aren't making the prelim Qtr finals which is where the actual champo starts. OK the pecking order gets sorted out but that makes no diff once you lose your prelim or Qtr. There will be endless nothing games - if people are happy with that, fine.
Frankly it's a nonsense if meaningful games are what you want."
I originally felt that it was quite bloated too. I've come around to it somewhat.

The group stages get 4 teams into the quarterfinals and 8 teams into the 2nd round.

I think the 3rd rounds of each group will have a lot to play for.

The teams finishing 2nd and 3rd in the group are ones like Armagh, Meath, Kildare, Galway and that sort of level. It's no harm those sorts of teams getting 4 or 5 championship games in a season.

Some of them maybe aren't massively impactful but none of them are dead rubbers.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3797 - 30/03/2022 16:59:23    2408458

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah I'd agree.

4 tiers for the secondary competition and 2 tiers for the primary competition makes a lot of sense.

The bottom teams have the league to play for silverware and it's meaningful to get up to division 3. I kind of think division 3 champions should get a spot and that provincial runners up shouldn't but that's a small tweak."
There is merit in rewarding the Division 3 winner if provincial champions only can qualify through the provincial route.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6796 - 30/03/2022 17:06:03    2408463

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Provinces shouldn't play any role. It's an unfair system which sees Kerry play one Div 2 side to get to a final whereas Tyrone will have 3 tough games to get to the same place."
The imbalances can be ironed out. You must remember that Ulster counties were in favour of retaining the provincial link. No matter how any team does in the league, they all start the provincial championships with a route on offer to the Top 16. It's a good deal all around.
An easy fix to the provincial imbalance is that only the provinces with a full complement of quarter-finals can provide a spot for runners-up. Then every county has to win at least 2 games. The solutions sometimes are not so difficult.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6796 - 30/03/2022 17:14:12    2408467

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Those 13 to 16 teams could all beat 9-12 on a good day so not as certain as you are making it out to be. The 4 groups of 4 would be better if there was promotion/relegation and that may come down the line once the bloated format becomes clear for everyone to see."
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Sure, Offaly might beat Meath or Clare to come 3rd before going on to lose to Galway or Donegal (2nd) in a prelim Qtr match where the result is never in doubt. It might even happen in 2 groups.

Thats an excellent example of "very little wool" for a move that adds a month and 24 games to the GAA calendar!

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 280 - 30/03/2022 18:28:40    2408485

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I originally felt that it was quite bloated too. I've come around to it somewhat.

The group stages get 4 teams into the quarterfinals and 8 teams into the 2nd round.

I think the 3rd rounds of each group will have a lot to play for.

The teams finishing 2nd and 3rd in the group are ones like Armagh, Meath, Kildare, Galway and that sort of level. It's no harm those sorts of teams getting 4 or 5 championship games in a season.

Some of them maybe aren't massively impactful but none of them are dead rubbers."
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Yeah you get extra games and some nice kickabouts which will suit the better teams with deeper panels but meaningful games - not really. The bloat is built in. It will be a bit of craic but thats all.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 280 - 30/03/2022 18:31:16    2408488

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If the 2023 format was in place this year, Derry and Clare would have realistic ambitions of making the preliminary quarter-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6796 - 31/03/2022 14:51:41    2408685

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Replying To Greengrass:  "You're bang on the money. The OTB team of presenters had no feel whatsoever for what they were talking about. What was hugely worrying was that Larry McCarthy and Tom Ryan both advocated for Proposal B as well. That would lead you to worry about the quality of leadership in the GAA. I would have no confidence in either of them."
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In fact if you step back for a moment and compare what the 2 Special Congresses voted on a mere 3 or 4 months apart it makes the GAA (leadership) look quite schizophrenic.

Last autumn they proposed and almost carried a motion that would have meant that 3 of the top 8 teams in the country wouldn't have competed in the KO phase of the AI series & their season was over after the league finished.
Now the top 8 (or 12) are more or less guaranteed a (prelim) Qtr final place - or certainly no excuses if they don't make it - & with more games than you could throw a pig at.
An outsider might say it doesn't quite add up?

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 280 - 04/04/2022 11:32:43    2409472

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

In fact if you step back for a moment and compare what the 2 Special Congresses voted on a mere 3 or 4 months apart it makes the GAA (leadership) look quite schizophrenic.

Last autumn they proposed and almost carried a motion that would have meant that 3 of the top 8 teams in the country wouldn't have competed in the KO phase of the AI series & their season was over after the league finished.
Now the top 8 (or 12) are more or less guaranteed a (prelim) Qtr final place - or certainly no excuses if they don't make it - & with more games than you could throw a pig at.
An outsider might say it doesn't quite add up?"
Kildare wanted Newbridge or nowhere. Cork are demanding Páirc Uí Rinn or nowhere. First in the group qualify for the quarter-finals. The group runners-up are rewarded with home advantage in the preliminary quarter-final. Let's give it a chance and see how it works out.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6796 - 04/04/2022 14:35:41    2409542

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

In fact if you step back for a moment and compare what the 2 Special Congresses voted on a mere 3 or 4 months apart it makes the GAA (leadership) look quite schizophrenic.

Last autumn they proposed and almost carried a motion that would have meant that 3 of the top 8 teams in the country wouldn't have competed in the KO phase of the AI series & their season was over after the league finished.
Now the top 8 (or 12) are more or less guaranteed a (prelim) Qtr final place - or certainly no excuses if they don't make it - & with more games than you could throw a pig at.
An outsider might say it doesn't quite add up?"
I don't think it's schizophrenic. The first motion nearly passed because some wanted any sort of change, it being a bad format itself for the reasons you describe are why it ultimately failed. The new format passed easily because it wasn't doing that stupid thing of eliminating the teams in 6th-8th in division 1. It's pretty logical to me to be honest.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3797 - 04/04/2022 15:49:43    2409570

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I see New York are in a preliminary 1/4 final of the teacup going forward, does this mean they don't compete in Connacht anymore? And why not put them in a preliminary with the top 16. Seems a bit unfair to them. And what happens if they make a run of it, who foots the bill and will teams have to travel out there to play them.

kentuckytucky (USA) - Posts: 207 - 04/04/2022 16:13:52    2409582

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Replying To Greengrass:  "You're bang on the money. The OTB team of presenters had no feel whatsoever for what they were talking about. What was hugely worrying was that Larry McCarthy and Tom Ryan both advocated for Proposal B as well. That would lead you to worry about the quality of leadership in the GAA. I would have no confidence in either of them."
OTB were up front about proposal B's shortcoming. I think they believed that it wouldn't take much to evolve the format to fix those issues.

OTB are a business who rely on listenership. The better the competition format, the more interest. What they support might be worth noting.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1291 - 04/04/2022 16:36:13    2409593

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Replying To kentuckytucky:  "I see New York are in a preliminary 1/4 final of the teacup going forward, does this mean they don't compete in Connacht anymore? And why not put them in a preliminary with the top 16. Seems a bit unfair to them. And what happens if they make a run of it, who foots the bill and will teams have to travel out there to play them."
Not necessarily.
They'd be hammered by top 16 teams.
Presumably GAA HQ.
Presumably they'll have to play their game(s) in Ireland

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 304 - 04/04/2022 18:15:51    2409631

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From the media reports I saw, the Green Proposal for next year will see the Provincial Championships played off in 5 weeks. This will see the provincial finals played off 2 weeks earlier than this year.
With 3 group games and preliminary quarter-finals to be squeezed in before the quarter-finals, it would seem the GAA will need at least an extra week?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6796 - 02/06/2022 12:06:46    2421767

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Replying To legendzxix:  "From the media reports I saw, the Green Proposal for next year will see the Provincial Championships played off in 5 weeks. This will see the provincial finals played off 2 weeks earlier than this year.
With 3 group games and preliminary quarter-finals to be squeezed in before the quarter-finals, it would seem the GAA will need at least an extra week?"
The GAA are looking to get players injured here. This format treats them like they are professionals.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 02/06/2022 15:13:48    2421809

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Replying To legendzxix:  "From the media reports I saw, the Green Proposal for next year will see the Provincial Championships played off in 5 weeks. This will see the provincial finals played off 2 weeks earlier than this year.
With 3 group games and preliminary quarter-finals to be squeezed in before the quarter-finals, it would seem the GAA will need at least an extra week?"
Don't want the games to be interfering with all the great "cultural" events that our grounds will be needed for ...

They should just have a 7 aside 10 minute a half blitz on New Years Day to get it out of the way.

Oh, sorry, I forgot about the Junior Ds right to equality and recognition. As if anyone in Croke Park gives a somersaulting fart about them.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 655 - 02/06/2022 15:40:05    2421817

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "The GAA are looking to get players injured here. This format treats them like they are professionals."
A 4 week gap from provincial win to quarter-final is a lot. Players have been asking for more games.
With the provincial championships being played overe4 weeks, 3 group games can fit in before the quarter-finals.
A decision will have to be made to drop the preliminary quarter-final round or else get an extra week. Is it true that most Senior Club Championships won't be starting until late August or September?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6796 - 02/06/2022 15:52:20    2421821

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Replying To legendzxix:  "A 4 week gap from provincial win to quarter-final is a lot. Players have been asking for more games.
With the provincial championships being played overe4 weeks, 3 group games can fit in before the quarter-finals.
A decision will have to be made to drop the preliminary quarter-final round or else get an extra week. Is it true that most Senior Club Championships won't be starting until late August or September?"
Players wanted more meaningful games in the summer months. The new format will see some counties playing 19 games in a shorter season. It will just lead to player burnout. Most clubs won't be kicking off until September and I think leaving August free to let players take a break is good idea. Many will have families and would like to enjoy some time off.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 02/06/2022 16:45:12    2421834

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "The GAA are looking to get players injured here. This format treats them like they are professionals."
The Provinical Championships will become more and more irrelevant with the new system. All the Division 1 and top of Division 2 will pretty much be guaranteed a place in the All Ireland group series, so will likely use any run in the Provincials for their wider squad. If they're knocked of them early it won't be a big deal as all the preparation will be geared towards the actual championship.

After a few years everyone will realise how irrelevant the Provincials are and that is the time the GAA will try to scrap them again. It's going to be all about the National Leagues and All Ireland Championships, the initial league/championship format.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 913 - 02/06/2022 18:57:25    2421854

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Players wanted more meaningful games in the summer months. The new format will see some counties playing 19 games in a shorter season. It will just lead to player burnout. Most clubs won't be kicking off until September and I think leaving August free to let players take a break is good idea. Many will have families and would like to enjoy some time off."
There is merit in that too regards giving players a bit of rest time in August.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6796 - 03/06/2022 09:37:47    2421892

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