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What are your thoughts on the Special Congress due to take place on 18th September. Championship reform is the big thing.
Proposal A is the provincial groups with each province having 8 counties. This involves moving counties out of Ulster and Leinster.
Proposal B is the League based championship. Top 5 in Div 1, top 3 in Div 2, and Div 3/4 champions qualify for All-Ireland series. Rumors are that this has been changed though. Possibly top 6 in Div 1 and only top 2 in Division 2.
Tier 2 will also be created in both proposals.
Proposal C is keep current system (with qualifiers) and Super 8s. Horan's Tailteann Cup will also start for Div 3 and 4 counties.
Latest rumours on the ground are that no change is the most likely outcome.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 05/09/2021 21:10:04
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Replying To Rolo2010: "What are your thoughts on the Special Congress due to take place on 18th September. Championship reform is the big thing.
Proposal A is the provincial groups with each province having 8 counties. This involves moving counties out of Ulster and Leinster.
Proposal B is the League based championship. Top 5 in Div 1, top 3 in Div 2, and Div 3/4 champions qualify for All-Ireland series. Rumors are that this has been changed though. Possibly top 6 in Div 1 and only top 2 in Division 2.
Tier 2 will also be created in both proposals.
Proposal C is keep current system (with qualifiers) and Super 8s. Horan's Tailteann Cup will also start for Div 3 and 4 counties.
Latest rumours on the ground are that no change is the most likely outcome." I would scrap the Super 8s. The proposal to have 4 groups of 8 is novel, but unlikely to get through.
MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 421 - 05/09/2021 22:18:11
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Replying To Rolo2010: "What are your thoughts on the Special Congress due to take place on 18th September. Championship reform is the big thing.
Proposal A is the provincial groups with each province having 8 counties. This involves moving counties out of Ulster and Leinster.
Proposal B is the League based championship. Top 5 in Div 1, top 3 in Div 2, and Div 3/4 champions qualify for All-Ireland series. Rumors are that this has been changed though. Possibly top 6 in Div 1 and only top 2 in Division 2.
Tier 2 will also be created in both proposals.
Proposal C is keep current system (with qualifiers) and Super 8s. Horan's Tailteann Cup will also start for Div 3 and 4 counties.
Latest rumours on the ground are that no change is the most likely outcome." Latest rumours on the ground are that no change is the most likely outcome.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 331
No change is the obvious one, however I see the Back Door system being brought back into play for 2022.?
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 05/09/2021 22:26:35
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Replying To Rolo2010: "What are your thoughts on the Special Congress due to take place on 18th September. Championship reform is the big thing.
Proposal A is the provincial groups with each province having 8 counties. This involves moving counties out of Ulster and Leinster.
Proposal B is the League based championship. Top 5 in Div 1, top 3 in Div 2, and Div 3/4 champions qualify for All-Ireland series. Rumors are that this has been changed though. Possibly top 6 in Div 1 and only top 2 in Division 2.
Tier 2 will also be created in both proposals.
Proposal C is keep current system (with qualifiers) and Super 8s. Horan's Tailteann Cup will also start for Div 3 and 4 counties.
Latest rumours on the ground are that no change is the most likely outcome." So does that mean that proposal C is the more likely for next year rolo?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 05/09/2021 22:39:58
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Replying To Rolo2010: "What are your thoughts on the Special Congress due to take place on 18th September. Championship reform is the big thing.
Proposal A is the provincial groups with each province having 8 counties. This involves moving counties out of Ulster and Leinster.
Proposal B is the League based championship. Top 5 in Div 1, top 3 in Div 2, and Div 3/4 champions qualify for All-Ireland series. Rumors are that this has been changed though. Possibly top 6 in Div 1 and only top 2 in Division 2.
Tier 2 will also be created in both proposals.
Proposal C is keep current system (with qualifiers) and Super 8s. Horan's Tailteann Cup will also start for Div 3 and 4 counties.
Latest rumours on the ground are that no change is the most likely outcome." I like proposal A . I'm not in favour of getting rid of the provincials. I have some great memories of winning Connacht titles. Look at Cavan and Tipp and what it meant to them last year.
Absolutely disagree with Div 3 and 4 having no chance to compete in the All Ireland series
galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 06/09/2021 00:05:41
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I can guarantee you it will be a mess whatever they decide, just glanced at the ladies finals today, junior intermediate and senior, everyone so delighted for a big day out in Croker and to win a national title at their own level with the chance to progress to the next level then, it's so simple and we have the answer already,
base the senior inter and junior ranks on league position, scrap the provincials if needs be.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 06/09/2021 00:20:59
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I didn't read anything about 6-2 replacing 5-3-1-1. Just awful that the Div 4 Champ (ranked 25th) could get to the KO 10 and 6th ranked does not.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2590 - 06/09/2021 05:38:12
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Proposal B will improve things
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 06/09/2021 08:44:31
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Just have 8 groups of 4. 2 get out. Then after a year or two switch to two championships. 4 groups of 4 in each.
Clubs and ladies have intermediate and junior. County boys can too.
And play the ****ing thing off over 8 weeks so the club's can get back at it. 99% of all players are club players.
skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 248 - 06/09/2021 08:48:03
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No matter what they do, the media will drag some fellow out of somewhere who is unhappy at the proposal.
Counties need to be realistic for me. There is no amount of dreaming or delusion is going to result in an All-Ireland title for 3/4 of the counties in Ireland.
The best they can hope for is a second tier championship.
No system will ever suit everybody but what the GAA desperately needs is some fresh life injected in to the championships.
A championship opener between Carlow and Longford doesn't do it.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 06/09/2021 10:28:16
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Replying To StoreysTash: "No matter what they do, the media will drag some fellow out of somewhere who is unhappy at the proposal.
Counties need to be realistic for me. There is no amount of dreaming or delusion is going to result in an All-Ireland title for 3/4 of the counties in Ireland.
The best they can hope for is a second tier championship.
No system will ever suit everybody but what the GAA desperately needs is some fresh life injected in to the championships.
A championship opener between Carlow and Longford doesn't do it." Allot to learn from Women's football!
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 06/09/2021 10:43:28
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "So does that mean that proposal C is the more likely for next year rolo?" Proposal C is the most likely but I can't see Super 8s being kept. Nobody likes it.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 06/09/2021 11:40:50
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Proposal B is the best option but a lot of turkeys will have to vote for Christmas to get it over the line
I'll give you odds on the outcome
Proposal A - 4/1
Proposal B - 200/1
Proposal C - 1/50
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 06/09/2021 11:49:59
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I actually quite like the straight knockout stuff we have at the minute and with regards proposal B , asking a leinster or ulster team to compete in another province wont really stand.
I feel that because Dublin have now been beaten , people may be of the opinion that no further change is required, I would disagree with this assumption.
There is a huge imbalance in the game ( but teams have dominated cyclically throughout the decades) but im not convinced whether it should or that it will ever be fixed, the cream always tends to rise to the top, and it with the backdoor route coming in it gave every team the off chance of being able to recover from one bad day in the office to reach the All ireland series essentially protecting the bigger teams.
Since 2000 - 2020 out of 33 (No kilkenny, NYC and LDN included) counties when it comes to All Irelands appearances,
Kerry - 11 Finals (winning 6) 55% of appearances in total finals held
Dublin - 8 Finals, (winning 8) 40%
Mayo - 7 finals 35%
Tyrone - 4 Finals, (winning 3) 20%
Donegal - 2 finals ( winning 1 )10%
Cork - 2 finals (winning 1) 10%
Galway - 2 finals (winning 1) 10%
Armagh - 1 final (winning 1) 5%
Down - 1 final 5%
Knockout football gives greater opportunities to teams with a less traditional winning history to go forth and cause a few upsets, but they more often than not they have won their "all irelands" that day and were beaten by traditionally stronger counties within a game or 2, we seen this last year in Munster with Cork beating Kerry, that was corks all ireland, tipperary won their all ireland against cork and then mayo did the busy and dispatched tipperary in the semi finals.
As far as i can remember we are yet to see a huge underdog consecutively take out any of the big guns and go on to win an all ireland. (Maybe you could put Tyrone of 2003, Derry and Donegal in the 90s into that bracket )
Is their really an appetite for change among the players in less successful counties, i know enough who are happy enough to have their one day in the sun, and if they are young enough tip over to the states for the pay to play route and earn a few bob.
If i could have it my way id have 2 championships, i would have the provincials as they are, winners from provincials are guaranteed a place in the A championship and use the league competitions as a basis for seeding.
Winners of the B championship would also be guaranteed a place in the A championship of the next year
This in my view would allow teams at similar levels to play other teams at similar level and have gradual improvement in place there so that they can avoid getting needlessly humiliated every year. (Maybe what im proposing is proposal A already and ive misunderstood things)
There are many facets including finance, development plans etc,, which i havent even included which are also important for how counties can challenge.
Dominance has always been there in one form or another...
If i look to my own county we have plenty of drinking teams addicted to football who complain about why Corofin were winning as much as they did, sometimes it comes down to having proper plans in place to develop players with the right attitudes.
BilboNaggins (Galway) - Posts: 59 - 06/09/2021 12:29:31
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Proposal C is the most likely but I can't see Super 8s being kept. Nobody likes it." Ya I think the super8s would work if it was at the start of the competition say 2 weeks after the league (using league as a way to seed teams, maybe even expand to super 16) but the super8s don't work in the middle of a competition imo.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 06/09/2021 12:33:50
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Replying To BilboNaggins: "I actually quite like the straight knockout stuff we have at the minute and with regards proposal B , asking a leinster or ulster team to compete in another province wont really stand.
I feel that because Dublin have now been beaten , people may be of the opinion that no further change is required, I would disagree with this assumption.
There is a huge imbalance in the game ( but teams have dominated cyclically throughout the decades) but im not convinced whether it should or that it will ever be fixed, the cream always tends to rise to the top, and it with the backdoor route coming in it gave every team the off chance of being able to recover from one bad day in the office to reach the All ireland series essentially protecting the bigger teams.
Since 2000 - 2020 out of 33 (No kilkenny, NYC and LDN included) counties when it comes to All Irelands appearances,
Kerry - 11 Finals (winning 6) 55% of appearances in total finals held
Dublin - 8 Finals, (winning 8) 40%
Mayo - 7 finals 35%
Tyrone - 4 Finals, (winning 3) 20%
Donegal - 2 finals ( winning 1 )10%
Cork - 2 finals (winning 1) 10%
Galway - 2 finals (winning 1) 10%
Armagh - 1 final (winning 1) 5%
Down - 1 final 5%
Knockout football gives greater opportunities to teams with a less traditional winning history to go forth and cause a few upsets, but they more often than not they have won their "all irelands" that day and were beaten by traditionally stronger counties within a game or 2, we seen this last year in Munster with Cork beating Kerry, that was corks all ireland, tipperary won their all ireland against cork and then mayo did the busy and dispatched tipperary in the semi finals.
As far as i can remember we are yet to see a huge underdog consecutively take out any of the big guns and go on to win an all ireland. (Maybe you could put Tyrone of 2003, Derry and Donegal in the 90s into that bracket )
Is their really an appetite for change among the players in less successful counties, i know enough who are happy enough to have their one day in the sun, and if they are young enough tip over to the states for the pay to play route and earn a few bob.
If i could have it my way id have 2 championships, i would have the provincials as they are, winners from provincials are guaranteed a place in the A championship and use the league competitions as a basis for seeding.
Winners of the B championship would also be guaranteed a place in the A championship of the next year
This in my view would allow teams at similar levels to play other teams at similar level and have gradual improvement in place there so that they can avoid getting needlessly humiliated every year. (Maybe what im proposing is proposal A already and ive misunderstood things)
There are many facets including finance, development plans etc,, which i havent even included which are also important for how counties can challenge.
Dominance has always been there in one form or another...
If i look to my own county we have plenty of drinking teams addicted to football who complain about why Corofin were winning as much as they did, sometimes it comes down to having proper plans in place to develop players with the right attitudes." Weaker counties don't want a return to straight knockout football.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 06/09/2021 12:40:46
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The football championship has to be a league stage followed by a knockout stage. Provinicials run as separate stand alone competitions.
The solution is obvious. The only question is how along it will take the GAA hierarchy to adopt these radical proposals of 30 years ago.
tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 06/09/2021 13:38:00
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Leave the current structure in place and instead examine how counties are funded, structured and run. At the moment, in both hurling and football, you have a handful of professional county teams who have unlimited funding and expertise to call upon in addition to huge background teams. These professional counties in both codes compete against teams who have little or none of the funding or expertise. Until this imbalance is addressed, you can all the multi tier structures you want but it won't make a jot of difference to weaker counties, you only have to look at the hurling championship with its various tiers and how much progress has been made by weaker counties - little or no progress in the bigger picture. How many counties are competing (realistically) for the All Ireland under the new structures than when these structures weren't in place? Alternatively you could save county boards in most of the country a huge amount of money every year by returning to the amateur status and having a knock out championship with no background teams. At least this way, the club championship can be run which is way more interesting than the inter county farce that is presently there.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 06/09/2021 13:59:38
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Replying To wicklowsupport: "Leave the current structure in place and instead examine how counties are funded, structured and run. At the moment, in both hurling and football, you have a handful of professional county teams who have unlimited funding and expertise to call upon in addition to huge background teams. These professional counties in both codes compete against teams who have little or none of the funding or expertise. Until this imbalance is addressed, you can all the multi tier structures you want but it won't make a jot of difference to weaker counties, you only have to look at the hurling championship with its various tiers and how much progress has been made by weaker counties - little or no progress in the bigger picture. How many counties are competing (realistically) for the All Ireland under the new structures than when these structures weren't in place? Alternatively you could save county boards in most of the country a huge amount of money every year by returning to the amateur status and having a knock out championship with no background teams. At least this way, the club championship can be run which is way more interesting than the inter county farce that is presently there." This is absolutely not what should happen. Nothing should be left alone. The system should be shaken inside out and upside down. We need three tiers: Senior, Intermediate and Junior. We have them at club level in all counties; in Ladies GAA; Camogie; and hurling, where we have even 4 tiers. Hurling is a more complex sport to organize and play, so it's understandable that there are 4 different levels.
So, why don't we have them in Men's Gaelic football? Why has that to be the exception? Why has that to be the fly in
the ointment? No reason. There's absolutely no valid reason to have a championship like the one we currently have. None. Not even financial reasons justify it. It's actually costing the association money.
But change won't happen. Because delegates to congress are old fogies, who've been yes men all their lives. When they hear the word change, they think of shillings and pence. Old fogies who are afraid that Wicklow might end up in the junior competition, which is their current level, or Cork in the intermediate competition, which is definitely their level. Conservatism and short-sightedness still rules the day in the GAA.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1910 - 06/09/2021 14:25:17
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The idea that anyone would be ok with keeping things how they are is mind boggling. Mayo could win the AI this Saturday and two of their games were against teams that didn't even make it out of their group In division 4, that makes no sense. A two tier system is needed, but instead the GAA will bury their heads in the sand.
PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1653 - 06/09/2021 14:47:57
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